Mini 1150 - There Goes the Neighborhood - Game Over

[GreyICE]

The early push on the Setael wagon was a mess:

Sigh, I love how Set is granting me psychic powers. Each time I vote for Jedo, despite my rhetoric in asking people to vote for him, I somehow know people won't do it, so it's a safe place for me to bus.

Anyway, I'm happy to sign on as Nacho's sheep for a while.

Unvote. Vote Packbat

Way to get your scumread lynched... I mean town, not scum.

What do you learn if Jedo is town, seascum?

My scum read on Set would lessen, so too my scum read on TS but to a much lesser degree.

And I'd start looking at people who have been defending you, looking for a white knight.

But we both know that's not going to happen.

So he wants to lynch me and if I flip town then his scumread on Set lessens a lot, and on TS a little.

YEAH HE'S NOT LEAVING ANY EXIT HOLES HERE.

Some people are cool with lynching me, other people aren't
Some people are cool with lynching Set, other people aren't

Accepting that your first choice may be one of the above two, is anybody not okay with lynching Twisted today? Does anybody have a shred of townread on the guy?
I'm just noticing an absence of activity, and it seems I'll end up being the deadline lynch unless we start discussing compromises now.

LETS NOT LYNCH ME OR SETAEL LETS LYNCH TWISTED SPOON

OH SCREW IT
I CALLED IT THE FIRST TIME
DOUBLE BUS FOR TOWN CRED

HE CAN JUST DIE

[GreyICE]

I DON'T NEED TO REEVALUATE!
I MEAN I VOTED FOR THREE PEOPLE AND FOSED A FOURTH YESTERDAY. AND TWO OF THEM ARE FUCKING

CONFIRMED TOWN

. BUT NO I MEAN MY SCUMREADS ARE OBVIOUSLY GOOD AND STUFF I DON'T NEED TO DO ANYTHING PRO TOWN LALALALALALALALA

"YOU GET TO BE TOWN" FOR BEING A VIG. NO SHIT, SHERLOCK, I'M FUCKING TOWN AS IT GETS.

YOU AIN'T.

[Regfan]

Why did I replace in.

[Seacore]

Just ignore GreyICE's posts. He thinks he's good at this game, but a cursory glance at his past games reveals otherwise.

If I'm "white knighting" then I'm doing it extremely. As I seem to be defending anybody that gets close to a lynch that I don't want lynched, and when I do actually get a lynch I want (ie Set) they flip scum.

[AurorusVox]

So uh... why didn't someone hammer?

Sure, it'd be awfully scummy, but

no one even demanded he claim.

Instead he was left to sit at L-1 for a while, until we lynched Setael.

I think the bolded is one of the best points in this line of thinking - if Seacore was town, one of the scum could easily have declared a hammer intent to get a claim out of him. I remember Krypt saying he would hammer Seacore once the discussion had quietened down, but he never asked for a claim at all...combined with my scumread of Krypt, this seems to stick out.

Urgh. I gave Seacore town points when Krypt didn't hammer him (based on Krypt's fear of being seen as responsible for a mislynch - he obviously thinks there's something bad about the hammer vote, since he pushed Packbat on it at the start of D2) but really, it looks like I should have considered given him scumpoints for it instead. The fact Set flipped goon means that Seacore could feasibly be a scum PR, and that's why Krypt did nothing. Hmm.

Scum suspects: Krypt - Seacore - one of [Doom/Llama]

---

GreyICE and I were discussing DB and LF last night. I can see reasons for finding them both scummy and townie, and they've done similar things with slight/subtle differences...I don't really they're both scum together because the move against Set was quite similar and I don't

really

think scum would follow each other so closely...

-

Doom

had Set as 3rd scum behind Seacore (#2) but voted for Set anyway - which I read as a potential bus. And he also tried to link Set to me before the flip, which sounded like he

knew

Set would flip scum and could be him trying to maximise the fallout from the lynch...
- Grey gave him townpoints for this

because

he could have justified voting Seacore at a point when it would have prevented Set getting lynched.

-

Llama

I've had see-saw issues with throughout the game. But after Set flipped scum, I gave her townpoints for pushing Set instead of Seacore pretty much consistently. If Seacore was scum, then this obviously changes.
- Contrary to the above, Grey thought it looked more like a bus of Set and a whiteknighting of Sea...that is a possibility but I think LF could have easily voted for Seacore instead.

Grey

- how does the above change with you now thinking of Seacore as scum again?

---

Vote: Kryptinen

My strongest read. Seacore is next strongest, and I put him second partly because some of the reason I suspect him is based on Krypt being scum; and I'm seesawing between Doom and LF, so I'm going to wait and see what happens there during today.

[Regfan]

I'll deal with this in the morning, heading to bed. Hopefully by the time I wake up Nacho has spoken some sense into you.

[GreyICE]

Just ignore GreyICE's posts. He thinks he's good at this game, but a cursory glance at his past games reveals otherwise.

If I'm "white knighting" then I'm doing it extremely. As I seem to be defending anybody that gets close to a lynch that I don't want lynched, and when I do actually get a lynch I want (ie Set) they flip scum.

A brief perusal of your ISO suggests that being called bad at this game by you is probably a compliment.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho - I'm a vig. You fuck us out of a lynch. Two mislynches to town loss is fucking shit balance. Why aren't we lynching you as scum?

Because I've been more useful than every other player in the game. Because I DID manage to read your slot correctly, and disable the wagon before he was outed. Because I played a big part in getting scum lynched so far, and I'll continue to play a big part in getting scum lynched. Because you love me.

Forgot to call V/LA for the weekend in this game, doing that now.

[GreyICE]

Just ignore GreyICE's posts. He thinks he's good at this game, but a cursory glance at his past games reveals otherwise.

If I'm "white knighting" then I'm doing it extremely. As I seem to be defending anybody that gets close to a lynch that I don't want lynched, and when I do actually get a lynch I want (ie Set) they flip scum.

Or me... wait, I'm confirmed town.

[kryptinen]

First: I have entrance exams on May 31st and June 1st, so my posting is going to get even more irregular until they're done. Sorry in advance.

@ICE: "Confirmed town" does not mean your scumdar is forever flawless, so please stop yelling. If you want people to jump into wagons you like, dig up some more evidence. Capslock does not make people listen to you.

So uh... why didn't someone hammer?

Sure, it'd be awfully scummy, but

no one even demanded he claim.

Instead he was left to sit at L-1 for a while, until we lynched Setael.

I think the bolded is one of the best points in this line of thinking - if Seacore was town, one of the scum could easily have declared a hammer intent to get a claim out of him. I remember Krypt saying

he

would hammer Seacore once the discussion had quietened down, but

he

never asked for a claim at all...combined with my scumread of Krypt, this seems to stick out.

I never demanded a claim because I did not intend to hammer. I even told you the reason why. Why, do you think it's solely my responsibility to ask for claims?

You're doing this on purpose, please stop.

Powerrox was telling me that she was having a conversation with Seacore over their suspects throughout the night, why the fuck would he discuss suspects with someone he was going to shoot?

I'm not scum for a variety of reasons, but this right here is a terrible reason to think I'm not scum.

Ever heard of this thing called doctor? And the fact that you know there's discussion means you'd know if there was none.

Also, Pack pointed out this post, and especially it's first line in our QT. Just something that's good to know.

After yesterday, the flip and QTs I don't find Set-Sea scumbuddies that likely. ICE, your case just isn't all that convincing. :/ Feysal, on the other hand, has a lot of explaining to do. But first I want to hear his reads on players. I'd also like to know what ICE thinks of TS/Feysal.

GreyICE, I'd like some answers. Who did you lynch? Why?

Why not Nacho?

Please answer the bolded question. A nacho lynch will give us zero information and he's a liability to the town in lylo.

[AurorusVox]

Krypt: you announced intention to hammer further down the line, after the discussion had run its course, afaict.

I can't make out if you're in favour of a Nacho lynch today. You say his lynch will give us zero information, but also that he'll be a liability tomorrow if we happen to mislynch today...are yo confident that we can lynch scum today? Because your lack of vote suggests otherwise.

[AurorusVox]

And sorry about the s/he confusion. I'm terrible with genders ._."

[Regfan]

So uh... why didn't someone hammer?

Sure, it'd be awfully scummy, but

no one even demanded he claim.

Instead he was left to sit at L-1 for a while, until we lynched Setael.

I think the bolded is one of the best points in this line of thinking - if Seacore was town, one of the scum could easily have declared a hammer intent to get a claim out of him. I remember Krypt saying he would hammer Seacore once the discussion had quietened down, but he never asked for a claim at all...combined with my scumread of Krypt, this seems to stick out.

I've stated this already, but this point is incredibly flawed. The only people who had opportunity to hammer were Nacho, Doom, Llama and Kryptin. LLama had no chance of asking for a claim

eight

days before deadline on someone that he stated minimal previous suspicion towards, Nacho has no motivation to quick-lynching anyone as it puts more focus towards him, Krypt had opportunity to ask for a hammer however doing so casts suspicion on him and I know I'm town. This effectively means that if Seacore is town there was absolutely no way that scum could ask for a claim or state intention to hammer making the point against him moot.

GreyICE -

Stop tunneling Seacore just because you find some of his play bad, take a good look at Twistedspoon and Llama and let us end this game.

Llama -

I still want you to fullyclaim.

AurorusVox -

Explain your thoughts on the Twistedspoon slot please.

Feysal -

When you state that you replaced into the Twistedspoon slot because your meta on him made you believe he was town did you mean:
1) You chose the Twistedspoon slot over the Doom because you believed Twisted was town.
2) You chose the Twistedspoon slot instead of replacing into an alternate game because you believed Twisted was town?

If your answer to the above was 2) then did you:
1) Read through the entire game before deciding to replace in or not
2) ISO Twisted to gain an idea of what allignment he was.

Again, if your answer was two, what posts do you believe in particular made you believe your slot was town and what exactly is the 'Twistedspoon town meta'?

[LlamaFluff]

@Reg - Not claiming, yet my role is 100% confirmable. Glass for whatever reason decided to claim it pregame, which I completely disagree with having done, but can see the justification for it. My quote on my lifespan likely being tied to the longevity of myself comes from what my role is, again quite obvious upon my death, but yes im not VT, and my role is formatted exactly as Powers was.

Anyway, Ice is right that he is likely town given the insistance of Set to lynch JJ over Quar on the first day, especially since Set flipped goon, odds are little over 50-50 that all other scum are non-goon. Good rarely busses non-goon if possible, its simply bad play.

Now, this means (by law of three) that one of Sea and TS are scum. As I already said, the defense of AV by Sea means Sea is likely town unless AV is scum, but three scum + vig + neutral? yeah right. At this point nacho is scum or there are only two scum. Seriously, im almost to thinking nacho leans scum if it wasnt for one thing he said, but even then his partner is limited quite a bit.

The flip just paints Sea as prob-town to me, votecounts point away from TS as scum however, given how close the TS and Set votes fell most of the time. I do find this one cool though

Jedo the Jedi (3) - Packbat

, Twistedspoon,

Setael

kryptinen (2) -

Jedo the Jedi

, Glass
Doombunny9 (1) -

Wickedestjr

Powerrox93 (6) - Nachomamma8, Seacore, AurorusVox, Doombunny9, kryptinen, Quaroath
Nachomamma8 (1) -

Powerrox93

Notice a distinct lack of green on the power wagon? I sure do.

If you call nacho non-scum and Sea town, it means the "kill them" area is AV, doom and krypt. At LEAST one of those three is going to be scum, since if nacho is neutral, then TS is probably town, as really a half the game wagon on town is ALL town? Nah. Those same three suddenly pop up on the Quar wagon as well.

Vote AV

Explaination more tomorrow, but check out how long he danced around the Set vote while trying to see if he could tip momentum in the direction of Sea.

[Regfan]

This:

Jedo the Jedi (3) - Packbat

, Twistedspoon,

Setael

kryptinen (2) -

Jedo the Jedi

, Glass
Doombunny9 (1) -

Wickedestjr

Powerrox93 (6) - Nachomamma8, Seacore, AurorusVox, Doombunny9, kryptinen, Quaroath
Nachomamma8 (1) -

Powerrox93

Should be:

Jedo the Jedi (3) - Packbat

, Twistedspoon,

Setael

kryptinen (2) -

Jedo the Jedi

, Glass
Doombunny9 (1) -

Wickedestjr

Powerrox93 (6) -

Nachomamma8

, Seacore, AurorusVox, Doombunny9, kryptinen,

Quaroath

Nachomamma8 (1) -

Powerrox93

[AurorusVox]

I've stated this already, but this point is incredibly flawed. The only people who had opportunity to hammer were Nacho, Doom, Llama and Kryptin. LLama had no chance of asking for a claim

eight

days before deadline on someone that he stated minimal previous suspicion towards, Nacho has no motivation to quick-lynching anyone as it puts more focus towards him, Krypt had opportunity to ask for a hammer however doing so casts suspicion on him and I know I'm town. This effectively means that if Seacore is town there was absolutely no way that scum could ask for a claim or state intention to hammer making the point against him moot.

Perhaps. I don't think asking for a claim would have generated as much suspicion as you say - predominantly in the case of Krypt - since he had expressed his desire to lynch Seacore later on anyway.

AurorusVox -

Explain your thoughts on the Twistedspoon slot please.

I read it as town. There are reasons for this but I will only share them if TS is in imminent danger of a lynchin'.

---

@Reg - Not claiming, yet my role is 100% confirmable. Glass for whatever reason decided to claim it pregame, which I completely disagree with having done, but can see the justification for it. My quote on my lifespan likely being tied to the longevity of myself comes from what my role is, again quite obvious upon my death, but yes im not VT, and my role is formatted exactly as Powers was.

^LF gains towncred if Glass' neighbours can confirm his role was claimed pregame.

However, this is just awful:

check out how long he danced around the Set vote while trying to see if he could tip momentum in the direction of Sea.

"How long" probably being a week seeing as I was OUT OF THE COUNTRY WITH NO ACCESS TO THE INTERNET and thus COULD NOT change my Sea vote for Set.

Friday 6th May, 2:41pm
My first mention of the Setael/Seacore issue: I say that they're equally scummy, and vote Seacore since his wagon was leading, I was leaving for holiday, and I wanted my vote to be useful.

Friday 6th May, 4:59pm
Watching what Setael does regarding the Seacore wagon.

Friday 6th May, 9:53pm
Announcing that I'm going on holiday and that Setael and Seacore are equally scummy (as I had already said before).

...

Saturday 14th May, 10:11pm
Return from holiday, vote for Setael.

Explain why you're trying to use my V/LA as an excuse to vote for me, LF.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Kryptinen

My strongest read. Seacore is next strongest, and I put him second partly because some of the reason I suspect him is based on Krypt being scum; and I'm seesawing between Doom and LF, so I'm going to wait and see what happens there during today.

Vote: AV

[LlamaFluff]

Also...

@Grey and AV - What did wicked talk about N1?

[Regfan]

@Reg - Not claiming, yet my role is 100% confirmable. Glass for whatever reason decided to claim it pregame, which I completely disagree with having done, but can see the justification for it. My quote on my lifespan likely being tied to the longevity of myself comes from what my role is, again quite obvious upon my death, but yes im not VT, and my role is formatted exactly as Powers was.

I have trouble believing that your role depends SOLELY on the allignment of your neighbours as that would mean that your fate would be sealed when the randomization of the neighbour placements occured. This leads me to believe that you believe your comment in relation to your duration in the game being affected by the allignment of your neighbour has to do with them vieweing you as a threat and shooting you - however the fact you openely claimed that your role isn't a VT means that there's motive for anyone to kill you either being your neighbour or not. So yes, I still want you to full-claim.

Anyway, Ice is right that he is likely town given the insistance of Set to lynch JJ over Quar on the first day, especially since Set flipped goon, odds are little over 50-50 that all other scum are non-goon. Good rarely busses non-goon if possible, its simply bad play.

Agree with this 100%.

Now, this means (by law of three) that one of Sea and TS are scum. As I already said, the defense of AV by Sea means Sea is likely town unless AV is scum, but three scum + vig + neutral? yeah right.

Mind explaining the law of three?

The flip just paints Sea as prob-town to me, votecounts point away from TS as scum however, given how close the TS and Set votes fell most of the time.

Agree with Sea-town, don't agree with TS-town.

I read it as town. There are reasons for this but I will only share them if TS is in imminent danger of a lynchin'.

Considering I'm having trouble seeing both Llama and TS as town and LLamas recent posts have been slight-town tells I really want you to go into your town-tells on TS.

LF gains towncred if Glass' neighbours can confirm his role was claimed pregame.

Agree

Nacho - Reads on everyone right now would be appreciated.

[GreyICE]

Unvote

Vote: LlamaFluff

[Seacore]

Glass' role was claimed pre-game.

[Seacore]

Okay, since everybody has posted and nobody has counterclaimed Ice, I'll admit I was wrong and move on.

Now,

Vote Feysal

I'm also willing to lynch
Krypt
Regfan
AV

in that order.

I am not willing to lynch Ice or Llama.

[LlamaFluff]

I also forgot AV was on V/LA so that lessens some of the points against him that I raised. Still dislike that his main justification for pushing Sea over Set was that Sea was closer to a lynch, I think this ends up as simple as AV and Krypt are opposite alignments, since both town means its something wierd like a doom-TS pairing, which I guess I can see... but dont like a whole lot.

@Reg - I keep going back and forth on TS, and am trying to get to the bottom of something that really is bugging me here about it before I push hard on it, since I was pretty convinced of TS scum until that point where I said I needed to ask something and got a response.

Still not going to claim. I feel Glass handled my role completely wrong, although as I said I could see justification for doing so, and through his actions, me living longer point more at a nieghbor of mine being scum. The claim from power sort of offset this though, and wicked was a fairly obvious N1 kill. I do consider it a very minor tell for Sea and Nacho that I am alive though.

[Seacore]

ugh, tags

Feysal

[LlamaFluff]

Missed one

@Reg - Law of three is a theory that when scum names three suspects, one of them is always scum. This is true more often then odds for one of three random players being scum, but not infallable by any means. Simply another slight tell type thing.