Mini 1458 - Don't Feed the Bears! - GAME OVER

[Thor665]

What are all the claimed roles at this stage?

[Thor665]

Because everyone else is a VT, right?

[pappums rat]

Yes, everyone else has claimed VT.

[Thor665]

So Tracker/Cop/BP vs. Rolblocker/Goon/?? is what you're looking to sell right now?

Did you breadcrumb?

[Baby Spice]

I don't believe the claim.

Vote Pappams

[penguin_alien]

So FWIW, not quickhammering.

pappums rat, make your case that you wanted to make. Convince me not to hammer.

[Thor665]

Unvote: Pappums Rat

@BS - why don't you believe the claim?

[Thor665]

I mean, if he breadcrumbed I'd tend to believe the claim.

[Baby Spice]

Because Idon't think he did anything to wear a NK, either by being hugely proactive town or dropping pr tells. Because actual town BP's are rare but scum fake claims of BP are more common.

[pappums rat]

I did not breadcrumb anything anywhere, I don't do so when I have a PR usually. The closest was this response regarding Mr_Ree saying HD getting flavor with his result was impossible, which I said because I knew that flavor was probable in this game because I got it with my role PM:

Mr_Ree having a problem with HD getting flavor with his result is invalid, it is entirely possible to receive flavor with a result. Im pretty damn sure there is no rule regarding adding additional flavor text to a guilty result in a normal game.

Baby Spice, I haven't been "hugely proactive" because of time constraints as well as extenuating circumstances in real life. In any case I have never really been a power poster in any game I have played in.

My research will have to come tomorrow, not enough time tonight.

[Baby Spice]

But there is a rule against adding it to a role pm

From the wiki:
"... flavor is not allowed in Role PMs."

[Thor665]

I'm just going to toss out that I suspect the claim is false and that the game is perfectly balanced with 2 PRs vs. 2 goons and RBer.
That said I think I owe it to myself to reconfirm my belief that BS is town.

I suppose for me my hesitance is that the BP would be the only apparent town defensive power...and I do think mods dry hump the legs of protective powers and tend to like to include them.

[penguin_alien]

^Not always; I finished a Mini Normal game not long ago that had a 2-shot vig as the only PR of any type.

So pappums rat, if you knew you had a BP from the start, what was your plan to draw a shot?

[Thor665]

Not always is hardly 'not normally'.

[penguin_alien]

Sure, I just think it's a decent balance either way. Although it might help offset the 3:9 vs. 3:10 ratio.

[Thor665]

Official Vote Count 1.6

Baby Spice:

Kid A

[L-6]

Kid A: TUNNELSNAKES, N64Lord, penguin_alien

, Baby Spice,

Aunt Jemina

, pappums rat,

Kthxbye

yabba: Mr_Ree

[L-6]

Aunt Jemina

:

Human Destroyer, yabbaguy

[L-5]

Not voting:

serrapaladin

Lynch has been achieved.

Official Vote Count 2.2

Baby Spice:

Kid A

[L-6]

Aunt Jemina

-

Human Destroyer

, pappums rat,

N64Lord, yabbaguy, Kthxbye, TUNNELSNAKES

N64Lord

-

Aunt Jemina

Not voting:

Penguin_Alien

, Baby Spice,

Mr_Ree

Lynch has been achieved.

Official Vote Count 4.9

Lynch has been achieved.

pappums rat -

Mr_Ree

Mr_Ree

- Baby Spice, pappums rat,

Thor665, Kthxbye

Not voting:

Penguin_Alien

[Thor665]

2.2 is a big kicker for me - scum were either bussing or not bussing.
Baby Spice was not bussing...while trying to defend N64 Lord who was the only other possible wagon.
I wonder if there are any other good Vote Counts...

[Thor665]

Wait, gah, gakked that up - hold on.

[Thor665]

Official Vote Count 1.6

Baby Spice:

Kid A

[L-6]

Kid A: TUNNELSNAKES

,

N64Lord

,

penguin_alien

, Baby Spice,

Aunt Jemina

, pappums rat,

Kthxbye

yabba: Mr_Ree

[L-6]

Aunt Jemina

:

Human Destroyer, yabbaguy

[L-5]

Not voting:

serrapaladin

Lynch has been achieved.

Official Vote Count 2.2

Baby Spice:

Kid A

[L-6]

Aunt Jemina

-

Human Destroyer

, pappums rat,

N64Lord

,

yabbaguy, Kthxbye, TUNNELSNAKES

N64Lord

-

Aunt Jemina

Not voting:

Penguin_Alien

, Baby Spice,

Mr_Ree

Lynch has been achieved.

Official Vote Count 4.9

Lynch has been achieved.

pappums rat -

Mr_Ree

Mr_Ree

- Baby Spice, pappums rat,

Thor665, Kthxbye

Not voting:

Penguin_Alien

[Baby Spice]

Official Vote Count 1.4

Kid A: TUNNELSNAKES, N64Lord, penguin_alien, Baby Spice

This one is the relevent one.

It is very unlikely for there to be two scum in that count.

Question is, is it worth considering a traitor? Because that changes things.


For the record I still think it's unlikely to be Thor, if it is Thor he has to be a traitor, an unlikely role, and the Rat would have to be a BP townie, also unlikely.

[Thor665]

Why is it unlikely to have2 scum on a 4 man wagon?

Also, if what you're saying is true then 2 scum (and only 2 scum) were not voting - does that seem normal or not to you?

[Thor665]

For the record I still think it's unlikely to be Thor, if it is Thor he has to be a traitor, an unlikely role, and the Rat would have to be a BP townie, also unlikely.

Also, I'll just toss out - if I'm a traitor then on what night was I recruited?
We aren't missing any kills. So even if I was a traitor I would still be town right now.

[penguin_alien]

My understanding of traitors is that they are always scum-aligned; sometimes they can be added to the scum QT via being NK'd, sometimes they're just as vulnerable to being killed by scum. Traitors =/= Judas.

Actually, 1-shot BP would be an excellent guise for a recruitable traitor.

What gets me, that no one has really addressed since TUNNELSNAKES, is that N64Lord claimed a god-awful night action. I'm the least experienced player left by minimum 2 years, and I'm not uninformed enough to try to claim to have self-targeted as a protective role, let alone JK. (plus I'm now conf-town, so you know I'm sincere in that assessment) And again, not overly experienced, but heaven knows that when I've been in scum QTs and kicked around fakeclaiming, choice of targets has always come up. All the more so when the role is already fakeclaimed. I don't buy that any of the three of you wouldn't have given N64Lord a better idea than self-targeting to claim. Which makes a traitor very likely to me.

It also explains the yabbaguy kill. Yes, N64Lord was still able to block HD, which was why he left him alive for another night, plus the ambiguity of whether HD was bussing AJ. But that gave him freedom to kill just about anyone. Why yabbaguy in particular? Trying to recruit to the QT via NK?

So all the scum ended up on the Kid A wagon. And TUNNELSNAKES and N64Lord were there as the first two votes from the start. 1.1 -> 1.6.

Baby Spice and TUNNELSNAKES also showed little hesitation in voting where AJ did even post-cop claim.

More thoughts later after reassessing the TUNNELSNAKES-Baby Spice-pappums rat ISO.

[penguin_alien]

TUNNELSNAKES jumped around with their vote in a non-scummy way, especially with the stop by voting Human Destroyer. Scum, traitor or not, would have known that HD was legit and very unlikely to be lynched. So why bother?

Not much else definitive right now.

pappums rat, give us your scum read. At this point I don't care if it's 'researched' or not. Or a town read. Or anything. I know you didn't have time as you stated, but surely you have some ideas.

[Thor665]

I would give up Baby Spice's left pinky finger to actually get some commentary out of the Rat.