Micro 474: Over the Garden Wall Mafia (GAME OVER)

[Kagami]

A lot of what I think about the game is in the dead thread, but here's a summary:

Firstly, Pie did a great job of being everyone's favorite townread. Town were in an extremely difficult position simply because they were all sure that pie was town, which contributed a lot to the general indecision.

Town made a lot of mechanical misplays early on. MS self-hammering instead of letting nacho doing it was a serious mistake, and likewise nacho's failure to hammer on day 2 prevented town from starting day 3 with two conf-town voices.

Lia never got to act, which is something I didn't expect to happen without nacho's role belonging to scum. As a result, I think the game was significantly less enjoyable for her, since she was promised a tracker role that was never delivered. Of course, that's town's fault in this case, but it's still something I'd rather not be possible in future setups. I should have made Lia's role functional, but unable to track nightkills, if she didn't chop down a tree.

Various plans, mostly scum, were subverted by the pseudo-random chapter effects. I would probably get rid of them if I were to do it again. I just kind of wanted a dreaming god in homage to tarhalindur, but the Home Chapter effects were powerful enough that gaiden's role was already really interesting.

I think recruitment is something I'll avoid in the future, but it was a worthwhile experiment. I also think full flips would have been better.

[SXTLHGaiden]

I liked my role.
I was a cat-frog and a president.

[Metal Sonic]

and conf town

[SXTLHGaiden]

2/2 conftown in Kagami games
By induction, i am always conftown in Kagami games.

[fferyllt]

here's the wall I was working on:

Spoiler:

I"m waiting for doduo but I'm also waiting for pieguyn. I particularly want his thoughts about the neighborhood stuff I posted about yesterday.

I don't see what you think looked town about his reaction, especially if his goal was to paint you as scum in accordance with a pre-determined read (that's not to say I think this is explicitly more likely - just I could easily enough see him-scum doing this). that said, I don't think him asking us to 1v1 in the PT was an odd request either. first off, if Alch-scum wanted to try to get me/Bee to be paranoid of each other, there would almost certainly be better ways of going about it than straight-up asking us "hey guys, 1v1". second, I thought his reasoning for it made sense - a majority of people don't realize that there's usually no benefit in specifically posting things in a neighborhood without posting it in the game thread.

I think if he is scum here, he was just attempting to play his role in the same way he thought he would have as town. I'd like if you could walk me through what you're seeing here.

I think a late-game replacement into a slot someone thinks is scummy is not likely to shake their read up, especially if they don't know the player, except maybe by reputation. I know that I'm not an easy mislynch except in situations where I feel like it benefits town to take me out of the playing field before lylo, and I wind up cooperating in my lynch. In this situation, that's not going to happen.

The main thing that stands out about his play is that the thought process doesn't feel very sharply defined. But that's actually a problem I'm having with every living slot (even yours, but it's on a comparative basis in terms of the kinds of analysis I know you can bring to a game), and I think it ties into the insane level of inactivity in this game.

most of my rereading up to this point has just confirmed what I've already thought. I think your slot is town, I *think* Doduo is more likely town than scum (even though their recent play has been fucking shit), Lia/Alch appears to make the most sense from an interactions POV (and the majority of people seem to agree on one or both of these reads).

[/quote]

Which is what stood out to me in reading the game thread.

Regarding his neighborhood decisions and his attempt to get a 1v1 going between our slots, it seemed almost absurdly simplistic thinking that two players townreading each other would engage in a 1v1 because they're told to.

But, on another level I've had this sort of concern about being neighborized before. My approach to being a neighborizer is on the opposite end of the spectrum from how he's used his neighborhood. My objective is to neighborize players I have ultra-strong bet-the-game level town reads and create a pseudo-masonry. The one other time I was neighborized by someone who made it pretty clear from the start they weren't townreading me, I think it took two full game days and a good chunk of the second game night to come around based on everything going on in the game, and see they were maybe town and more likely town than my other candidate for scum.

So, my predisposition with a neighborhood like this one involves a lot of eye-squinting. But, I can, with effort, get out of my own mindset after kicking things around. I worry I'm backing down too quickly without any opportunity to see how that neighborhood would play out if I were able to post in it right now.

I'm going to reread the game this morning. I worry that my doduo read has been too-much influenced by your thoughts about them. I feel like you have a lot more meta-experience with marquis, which is why I bought pretty heavily into your interpretation of their day 1 behavior around the ms wagon.

What I didn't write in that final paragraph - started to, then backspaced it out - was that I was going to look at pie as well, especially in terms of whether he'd make sense as scum with doduo. The way pie townread doduo for day 1 kept bugging me. I had them down in my "I hate their day 1 play" pile on day 1, and then changed my mind based on pie's read during my readthrough of day 2 and the neighborhood. And I pushed back some early suspicion of pie because I thought Nacho's townread made a lot of sense.

[SXTLHGaiden]

re: choosing phase chapter, this is porbably going to sound like a stretch but not-so-tinfoil theory is that it's actually a scum factional ability. like in a role madness pre-alignment game that's the perfect way to just balance things easily to account for the pr tilt - this is what ceph and i did with pokemon gen ii upick to hand scum a premade inventor fakeclaim off of their hidden factional. plus only one player having that decision is weird af, it's more of a shared/mechanic thing so i'm reeeeeally sketched by that claim

lia/gaiden maybe??

I'm gonna consider this a scumclaim

i was about 70% serious when i wrote this. i'm gonna kick myself in the ass for a while.

[pieguyn]

The way pie townread doduo for day 1 kept bugging me. I had them down in my "I hate their day 1 play" pile on day 1, and then changed my mind based on pie's read during my readthrough of day 2 and the neighborhood. And I pushed back some early suspicion of pie because I thought Nacho's townread made a lot of sense.

lolololololol ololol ollololl lololol

HARD DEFEND STRAT SUCCESS ~

I really didn't know what I was going to do if anyone suspected Doduo coming into this. I was prepared to write a bunch of walls analyzing all the interactions among {Alch, Lia, Doduo} if I needed to since I was pretty sure I would have been able to push any of them as a viable scum team. I was actually considering doing it last (RL) night but I was way too tired and didn't feel like it :<

[pieguyn]

I thought the setup was fine. it just wound up being that town kept screwing it up and weren't able to take advantage of most of the extra things the setup provided - no one was turned into an Edelwood tree, and there were a bunch of random flavor claims that really benefited us. plus there was way too much apathy. Lia had really accurate reads but then it didn't even matter cos the massive amount of town apathy made it impossible for her to lynch any of them :<

[Lia]

Congrats on the win!

Thanks for the game, Kagami.

[Lia]

The setup was well made and had it lasted a few more rounds, more of the elements may have come into play. Maybe make it a mini next time.

Pie was definitely MVP of the game. I must learn to stick with my earlier reads.

What I really didn't understand is why almost everyone was townreading Doduo. I think the most frustrating bit for me was seeing that they needed an extra vote to lynch in lylo, and their lurking of course.

[Lia]

Has the mafia PT been released? I can see the others but not that one.

[pieguyn]

it doesn't look like it's been released yet. I'm fine with releasing it btw.

[Kagami]

scum pt is released.

deadies: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=61895
Alch hood: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=61772
scummos: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=61757
mod PT: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=61753

[notscience]

Pie is the bomb.

[Alchemist21]

Whoops. I'm sorry Lia and everyone else.

As for the mechanics, I wouldn't mind another game with a recruitment mechanic. Random chapters wasn't great though.

[quadz08]