Newbie 1726 (Game Over)

Zorblag · Post Post #775 (ISO) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 7:52 pm

@RachMarie, you know what. If you're town then you're much better served by convincing me and the rest of the town that the correct choice between innocentvillager or Foxbird is scum here. I think that your current cases are unimpressive, but if one of them is scum then knowing the reason why is helpful. Especially if this day ends with your lynch and you want to make sure the actual scum is lynched (by me or whoever is left alive) tomorrow.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

RachMarie · Post Post #776 (ISO) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 7:54 pm

I care more now because now town has two people who are potentially scum and one of them is bound to BE scum, and you are trying to get me someone I KNOW is town lynched. Early on on D 1 or D2 it is not as big a deal to me because meh, town can still win.

I do not want to see town lose because you convince everyone to mislynch me and then you pick wrong tomorrow when most likely either you or nacho is gone.

Zorblag · Post Post #777 (ISO) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 7:58 pm

@RachMarie, since we mislynched day 1 we were in essentially the same state day 2. We get that wrong and we're down to one mistake (with a potential no lynch to eliminate one candidate.) You were a strong lynch candidate for most of that day and didn't object like you are now.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

Zorblag · Post Post #778 (ISO) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 8:04 pm

@RachMarie, and as of right now, I don't have anyone in the game who agrees with me. My skills at mafia don't particularly include pushing my preferred lynch as I don't usually bother trying. If you're right about scum you can get a lynch through without me. You can keep defending if you want (and I'll listen and am willing to be swayed,) but your still better served by making compelling arguments for who else is scum at this point. It helps your case and the town as a whole.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

RachMarie · Post Post #779 (ISO) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 8:07 pm

Again keep in mind I was not as active those days which I have explained
Plus of course at that point I figured it was inevitable but that town could come back from it, now I think it is stupidly going to backfire

I will go through Inno and Foxs ISOS and find more for you and look at VCA as well but not tonight its 3 AM and Im rather tired,

So I am going to take the rest of my glass of merlot and get some sleep.

Zorblag · Post Post #780 (ISO) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 8:17 pm

@RachMarie, there's no particular hurry. Make good cases. Find scum. Convince town to lynch them. It's mostly the same gameplan that it should always be.

Oh, and enjoy the Merlot! I think you're our most likely scum here, and I might be wrong, but that's nothing about you as a person (to whom I wish nothing but the best.)

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

Zaicon · Post Post #781 (ISO) » Mon Sep 05, 2016 2:55 am

Vote Count 4.1

Foxbird (1):

innocentvillager

RachMarie (1):

Zorblag

No Vote (3):

Foxbird, Nachomamma8, RachMarie

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch!

Deadline is Friday, September 16, 2016 at 4:00 PM CST, which is in (expired on 2016-09-16 16:00:00).

Foxbird · Post Post #782 (ISO) » Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:35 am

My exam went well! Hooray. Now I have two days before my other one on Thursday.

I checked inno's ISO for mentions of Jaack and there is a distinct lack of mentioning him at all aside from Day 1. I believe the first mention of him after that was when he randomly called Jaack and me the scum team on D3. The other way around, there is a lot of defending inno by Jaack throughout the game.
In addition to that, his lashing out over the no kill also feels scummy to me. He accused me of "pissing my pants" or whatever and giving up on the game, yet he seemed genuinely outraged at the NK situation. I don't see a lot of reasons for town to get angry when there's no night kill.

Zorblag, can you elaborate on why you're townreading inno?

We also need to hear from Nacho.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #783 (ISO) » Mon Sep 05, 2016 12:38 pm

Foxbird, could you talk more about your Rach read? Right now it seems like you're driving inno/Jaack pretty hard, but Rach doesn't really seem to be a strong consideration although your townread on her doesn't seem all that strong. My concern with this approach is that it's the most convenient for you as scum; you get to push through an inno lynch, and you don't have to worry about going back on your Rach read all that much if you don't elaborate on her all that much.

Zorblag, I have trouble picturing a world where Rach is both scum and also ends up shooting at me twice in this game/intentionally shooting at me to remove my vest. She has more motive to keep me alive than anyone else (my townread on her is abnormally strong and I've generally had the clout to push wagons away from her), whereas if Foxbird's shot on me went through she'd have a more comfortable route to victory (inno is alive for Rach to tunnel on, you are alive to tunnel on Rach. What are your thoughts on this?

RachMarie · Post Post #784 (ISO) » Mon Sep 05, 2016 1:25 pm

believe me Nacho I would have kept you alive and shot Troll that I can say for sure.

And no I would not have jumped on Jaack either, I would have lurked something fierce til the deadline passed.

RachMarie · Post Post #785 (ISO) » Mon Sep 05, 2016 1:26 pm

Nacho do you think it is inno or Fox I keep going back and forth on those two

Foxbird · Post Post #786 (ISO) » Mon Sep 05, 2016 1:59 pm

@Nacho: My Rach read was leaning town until the second half of D2 or so, and even then I was hesitant and relying on other people's experience and cases to sort her out. I can't elaborate much here, but I do have a hard time reading her. For now I want to focus on inno because I think that's where the scum is. I suppose that does look convenient, but so would just jumping on a Rach wagon when I am more certain it's inno. I also don't find Zorblag's case that convincing right now - as you said, the night kill choices make little sense if she's scum, and I don't think she'd soft defend me against inno in this situation, seeing as she'd have to line up two mislynches to win.

Anyway, off to bed I go~

innocentvillager · Post Post #787 (ISO) » Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:27 am

In post 783, Nachomamma8 wrote:Foxbird, could you talk more about your Rach read? Right now it seems like you're driving inno/Jaack pretty hard, but Rach doesn't really seem to be a strong consideration although your townread on her doesn't seem all that strong. My concern with this approach is that it's the most convenient for you as scum; you get to push through an inno lynch, and you don't have to worry about going back on your Rach read all that much if you don't elaborate on her all that much.

Zorblag, I have trouble picturing a world where Rach is both scum and also ends up shooting at me twice in this game/intentionally shooting at me to remove my vest. She has more motive to keep me alive than anyone else (my townread on her is abnormally strong and I've generally had the clout to push wagons away from her), whereas if Foxbird's shot on me went through she'd have a more comfortable route to victory (inno is alive for Rach to tunnel on, you are alive to tunnel on Rach. What are your thoughts on this?

This

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #788 (ISO) » Wed Sep 07, 2016 3:01 am

In [url=/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8308383#p8308383]post 785[/url], RachMarie wrote:Nacho do you think it is inno or Fox I keep going back and forth on those two

Right now, I think it is more Fox and less inno.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #789 (ISO) » Wed Sep 07, 2016 3:01 am

I also have no idea how those quotes broke, but them's the breaks.

RachMarie · Post Post #790 (ISO) » Wed Sep 07, 2016 4:01 am

nods I am willing to trust your judgement Nacho, maybe it is my own conf bias about bussing one's scum budz?

Whenever you are ready to vote I will cast mine for her as well.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #791 (ISO) » Wed Sep 07, 2016 4:18 am

Foxbird wrote:@Nacho: My Rach read was leaning town until the second half of D2 or so, and even then I was hesitant and relying on other people's experience and cases to sort her out. I can't elaborate much here, but I do have a hard time reading her. For now I want to focus on inno because I think that's where the scum is. I suppose that does look convenient, but so would just jumping on a Rach wagon when I am more certain it's inno. I also don't find Zorblag's case that convincing right now - as you said, the night kill choices make little sense if she's scum, and I don't think she'd soft defend me against inno in this situation, seeing as she'd have to line up two mislynches to win.

Anyway, off to bed I go~

Can you give me a more significant read than this? I'm not asking you to go against your read for any reason, but I need more to work with here than "leaning town until the second half of day 2, mostly trusted other people there, but have a hard time reading her". If you think the answer I want could be found by reading your posts more in depth, fair enough, but what would be the most helpful to me would be something that gave me a better idea of where you stand on her.

Sorry if this post doesn't make sense, on the road.

RachMarie · Post Post #792 (ISO) » Wed Sep 07, 2016 4:24 am

It feels like she is hedging her read on me, I may know that Troll is wrong on his read on me but I can at least respect his read and see his read as coming from a Town PoV.

Foxbird · Post Post #793 (ISO) » Wed Sep 07, 2016 5:29 am

In post 791, Nachomamma8 wrote:
Foxbird wrote:@Nacho: My Rach read was leaning town until the second half of D2 or so, and even then I was hesitant and relying on other people's experience and cases to sort her out. I can't elaborate much here, but I do have a hard time reading her. For now I want to focus on inno because I think that's where the scum is. I suppose that does look convenient, but so would just jumping on a Rach wagon when I am more certain it's inno. I also don't find Zorblag's case that convincing right now - as you said, the night kill choices make little sense if she's scum, and I don't think she'd soft defend me against inno in this situation, seeing as she'd have to line up two mislynches to win.

Anyway, off to bed I go~
Can you give me a more significant read than this? I'm not asking you to go against your read for any reason, but I need more to work with here than "leaning town until the second half of day 2, mostly trusted other people there, but have a hard time reading her". If you think the answer I want could be found by reading your posts more in depth, fair enough, but what would be the most helpful to me would be something that gave me a better idea of where you stand on her.

Sorry if this post doesn't make sense, on the road.

At the moment I have doubts that she's scum. For one, I think it's inno, and other than that I can only point to what I said above.

I wasn't scumreading her during D1 and the beginning of D2 because she seemed to have the same problems I was having with the game at that point, and the way she was posting seemed in line with what I had seen of town!Rach in other games I played and read. I also thought she was crumbing a PR for a while (though of course now I know that's most likely not the case), which contributed to that. I joined the wagon on her after two people made cases on her, one of which seemed to have significant experience with her play.

I still have studying to do and I'll be gone tomorrow for my exam again. Sorry about that. I can't wait for this stupid semester to be over.

Zorblag · Post Post #794 (ISO) » Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:00 pm

@Foxbird, Jaack defending innocentvillager is actually one of the reasons that I don't think that they'd be a scum team together. It draws too much attention and scum will very seldom directly defend a partner. The attack on me when I voted for RachMarie is much more the sort of defense I expect scum to mount. What you're describing there is more akin to what I'd call buddying (which I expect scum to do with town.) Overall innocentvillager and Jaack have just seen too little conflict to be good scum partners, and when there was a chance to win the game yesterday, they didn't go for it at all, but instead just let Jaack get lynched and had innocent villager take himself out of the game with the no lynch preference when he knew from the start that RachMarie was gunning for him and that you would be out of other options as a primary candidate. He's irritated the hell out of me this game, but I don't think he's a bad player (or person despite my treatment of him which probably isn't entirely fair,) and I don't think he'd leave himself in that setup as scum. Especially as he didn't have any reason to think that I wouldn't be gunning for him as well. The no kill might make the least sense for innocentvillager of all the potential scum left alive. I'm sure that Nachomamma8 is town. I'd bet that innocentvillager is too.

@Nachomamma8, it's possible that Foxbird goes for you when you were protected. It's a poor move as you as a night target was at least brought up yesterday and she'd be better off killing me leaving a much clearer path to victory for her (the innocentvillager mislynch) than needing two mislynches if you still had protection. Do I think that's less likely than RachMarie submitting the kill on you? Probably not. But a no kill by RachMarie leaving you there to continue to protect her doesn't shock me. I also don't know that I'd call my behavior tunneling as I'm not blind to the rest of the game. The night game is a mess no matter who submitted the actions. The day game points more clearly towards RachMarie to me. I'd prefer the RachMarie lynch now just to get done now while we've got a cushion because I don't think it happens tomorrow during the day and I think it's the safer choice, but Foxbird is easily my second choice.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

innocentvillager · Post Post #795 (ISO) » Wed Sep 07, 2016 4:40 pm

prodge, let me know if there is something specific any of you want me to answer to, school is picking up so I will have less time (although hopefully this game will be over soon if fox is scum)

Nacho and Rach if you're ready can we vote foxbird

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #796 (ISO) » Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:44 am

I'm leaning that way, but I'd like her to have a chance to say any final words.
Zorblag, if there's a final 3 tomorrow and I'm alive, I'm voting Rach. If inno is scum at this point, he's had enough chances to close out the game and instead did infinitely ballsy things (since I know he knows better) where I feel comfortable enough handing him the win at LyLo.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #797 (ISO) » Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:44 am

And mainly for the reasons you've outlined, but I can expand on that if it makes anyone feel better.
I just think that this game ends when Foxbird dies.

Foxbird · Post Post #798 (ISO) » Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:21 pm

If you wanna flip me first, fine. I think I've said all I wanted to say.

But I really think you should get inno tomorrow, then, not Rach.

Zorblag · Post Post #799 (ISO) » Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:08 pm

@Nachomamma8, I hope you're right. We'll see.

@Foxbird, go ahead and make the strongest case you have on innocentvillager then. If you're pretty sure he's scum then lay it out for us one more time while you can.

@RachMarie, if you still think that's true as well, go ahead and lay out your strongest case. No sense not having it.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh