Mini #1647: Eine Kleine Nacht-Mord, Game Over

[LlamaFluff]

For instance, literally everything Llama is hammering on about NJAC, where everyone has the benefit of hindsight and he doesn't want to admit it.

You shouldn't need the benefit of hindsight to tell us WHY YOU VOTED HIM.

How is this a hard request? Why did you vote someone for a reason that transcends essentially "gut"? Instead you continue to just dance around the issue.

Again, TTH either wont tell us what parts of Marquis posting was "not genuine" and why, or cant because the reason never actually existed.

i also played in Spies 7, which was ultra mafia and probably the coolest thing ever. 50ish people, subforums, multiple alignments, games and activities, twas very cool.

Only 7 or others too?

[LlamaFluff]

Oh and again, for the record we have gone the entire game day without TTH being able to answer that question. It seems that town should be able to answer "why did you vote for X?" with something other than "they weren't genuine" and proceeding to give no examples or reasons for thinking that, or with "you are asking that with hindsight".

Basically her entire day could be summarized in a few points

1) I am scum because she doesn't like my target
2) UT is not likely town given the result
3) Ducking answering why she voted NJAC
4) Completely dropping incorrect attacks when pointed out

[onion]

@equinox fuck if i know how i've changed in the past 5 years. i was a dumb kid back then, and didn't have the mental power to do it right.

spies 7 is um....
http://spies7.proboards.com/
but its fucking big. we each had a confessional, which contains most of the interesting interactions with others as well as just posts to yourself. oh i guess they got moved, so in each episode look for Sophi's Word, which is the thread for that. i was sophi. (VT)

@Llama, only 7. you play in one of those?

@TTH, llama is right. get in here and post content.

[Untrod Tripod]

onion, llama

can we come together and bus your buddy TTH?

I really want to lynch her and she's kind of my under the radar scumread

can we make it happen?

[Derangement]

I think I might help with that, actually, if nothing changes with her next post.

[Untrod Tripod]

derangement

there should be nothing she can say to move you

fuck it I'll go first

unvote vote: TTH

[Derangement]

I'm willing to be surprised, if she can pull it off.
Not likely, but hey!

[LlamaFluff]

I'm willing to be surprised, if she can pull it off.
Not likely, but hey!

Keep in mind deadline is in about 30 hours

[onion]

oh, deadline is tomorrow. lets get on this shall we?

Lynch Llama because: (a repeat of 543, plus the claim stuff)
Llama suspecting GIF super early on, then changing to like him due to bad reasons is suspicious.
Llama suspecting Tripod, then moving his vote to Prawn in 303, and we never hear a peep about tripod again, is suspicious.
Llama invented the 'preservation vote' thing, then used it as evidence against Prawn.
in 421, Llama pushes Prawn, but doesn't actually ask questions or anything. its not scumhunting.

Also, he claimed and did that terrible plan of his, making the claim un-provable. that's how a scum would do it.

Also also, good info on from the flip either way!

GC's replacement in is fantastic. and Bub's was fantastic. i'm willing to write sns off as a terrible player in an otherwise townish slot.

-=-

but who else would i possibly consider lynching hmmm... i guess i really don't suspect tripod much anymore, although i can't really decide why. maybe i just became jaded to his shenanigans.

i could tolerate a lurk-policy-lynch on CBD, he hasn't posted since the 17th. i guess. its far from optimum, but everyone else (except TTH) i have read on. i guess i could consider a lurk-lynch on TTH too. neither of them are the scum dream team. i won't lynch the rest of you.

[TellTaleHeart]

I think I might help with that, actually, if nothing changes with her next post.

Nothing's going to change. Go ahead.

I also have no intention of claiming.

[prawneater]

GC

we are never on the same page

why are we on the same page this game

it's really weirding me out that you're arriving at exactly my reads

I think it's more you're arriving at GC's reads.

[TellTaleHeart]

onion's Post 858 is actually

really

good. GC's case on Llama is solid as well.

I think Derangement's sudden willingness to lynch me is weird.

[TellTaleHeart]

I'm fully expecting UT to go after Llama tomorrow. UT and GC, I think your onion case is bunk and you shouldn't push him. onion, keep voting Llama and you should be good to go. GC, you already suspect Llama and that is where your vote should go tomorrow.

The two votes for GC are really silly. prawn if you're town, and I think you are, you should go back to Llama.

[TellTaleHeart]

How is this a hard request?

It is not a hard request. It is a useless request. One that I will not allocate any more time to because I do not have it.

[LlamaFluff]

Llama suspecting GIF super early on, then changing to like him due to bad reasons is suspicious.

So I am scum because my town tell (which was true) is something you don't think is a tell... okay...

Llama suspecting Tripod, then moving his vote to Prawn in 303, and we never hear a peep about tripod again, is suspicious.

Really? Im pretty sure I continued to call him a secondary suspect the entire day. I actually called him a good scum pick at the end of the day.

Llama invented the 'preservation vote' thing, then used it as evidence against Prawn.

Same meaning, different wording. Do you consider "backing counterwagons to yours" self-preservation or is it something else to you? That sure sounds like the same thing to me.

in 421, Llama pushes Prawn, but doesn't actually ask questions or anything. its not scumhunting.

Its still scumhunting. Are cases and scumhunting two different things to you?

Also, he claimed and did that terrible plan of his, making the claim un-provable. that's how a scum would do it.

So unless I hit scum submitting the kill or a PR I am scum for my action... THAT makes perfect sense. Its called basic strategy for a tracker, its literally what you balance the game for, you are looking to make a role that is going to get a result for a fairly solid town tell.

If you don't understand that I don't know what to tell you, but most information roles are balanced to find town, not scum, because that is what they are most likely to target. Its like if you are looking at a cop, when designing the role you should be far more interested in the scenario where they are alive D3 with two clear players, than what happens if they catch scum N1.

Also also, good info on from the flip either way!

I thought you already admitted that my flip doesn't really effect your reads either way.

TTH is again noted that she is refusing to respond as to why she voted NJAC. Again, its because there was no reason. Literally no one here can name why you voted him NO ONE. The fact that not a single player can say why you voted someone besides "gut" is a joke. A complete joke. Your reason keeps shifting as why you aren't saying it too. First its that it was obvious, then its your hindsight excuse (again way to drop a defunct point) and now its that its useless.

Are you saying its perfectly acceptable to vote only based on gut?

[LlamaFluff]

1) I am scum because she doesn't like my target
2) UT is not likely town given the result
3) Ducking answering why she voted NJAC
4) Completely dropping incorrect attacks when pointed out

I seriously think if you add in

5) Random read with no backing
6) Contentless post

You have every single post that TTH made today in one of those

[prawneater]

Some thoughts.

I'm townreading Onion and Derangement.

I think I liked CDB yesterday but he's gone

I don't particularly like TTH's D2 play.

I don't like Equinox's late D1 or D2 play.

GC is definitely a better player than his predecessors, but I still hate sns's slot.

Are people townreading UT? Why? I wouldn't mind him being lynched.

I think I'd rather LF die than TTH or Onion.

VOTE: LlamaFluff

[onion]

Llama suspecting GIF super early on, then changing to like him due to bad reasons is suspicious.

So I am scum because my town tell (which was true) is something you don't think is a tell... okay...

towntell waht?

Llama suspecting Tripod, then moving his vote to Prawn in 303, and we never hear a peep about tripod again, is suspicious.

Really? Im pretty sure I continued to call him a secondary suspect the entire day. I actually called him a good scum pick at the end of the day.

link please

Llama invented the 'preservation vote' thing, then used it as evidence against Prawn.

Same meaning, different wording. Do you consider "backing counterwagons to yours" self-preservation or is it something else to you? That sure sounds like the same thing to me.

kinda a semantic argument, i'm willing to drop it. too hard to argue what you meant by the term.

in 421, Llama pushes Prawn, but doesn't actually ask questions or anything. its not scumhunting.

Its still scumhunting. Are cases and scumhunting two different things to you?

thing is you didn't have a case. you didn't have questions. you were just pushing nothing.

Also, he claimed and did that terrible plan of his, making the claim un-provable. that's how a scum would do it.

So unless I hit scum submitting the kill or a PR I am scum for my action... THAT makes perfect sense. Its called basic strategy for a tracker, its literally what you balance the game for, you are looking to make a role that is going to get a result for a fairly solid town tell.

If you don't understand that I don't know what to tell you, but most information roles are balanced to find town, not scum, because that is what they are most likely to target. Its like if you are looking at a cop, when designing the role you should be far more interested in the scenario where they are alive D3 with two clear players, than what happens if they catch scum N1.

i don't have much game construction knowledge. i'd appreciate one of you experienced people to take this one for me. Equinox? GC?

Also also, good info on from the flip either way!

I thought you already admitted that my flip doesn't really effect your reads either way.

i never said that your flip wouldn't affect my reads either way, pretty sure i've been saying the inverse of that. what i did say was that your flip would affect my read on tripod less because tripod. still some though. good info on Prawn as well. i could probably whisk up some TTH in there as well.

but good point. TTH, don't be an sns, why did you vote NJAC?

[LlamaFluff]

I think its still TTH + Prawn.

Did you know this is the first time Prawn has mentioned TTH in any context of having a read on them since Page 17? Which was only repeating something that they liked from post 71 (literally just looks like messing up a quote from page 3 but am not sure)

Just quicklynch TTH tomorrow. Its not like they will post content either way, they have gone into the turtling scum tactic of just trying to wait it out and worst case give off no associative tells.

@Prawn - So what happened post 71 (you know... a month ago) and your last post to change your read on TTH? Because you didn't mention them between those two.

[Untrod Tripod]

GC

we are never on the same page

why are we on the same page this game

it's really weirding me out that you're arriving at exactly my reads

I think it's more you're arriving at GC's reads.

...are you high

[Derangement]

Onion

Towntell notwithstanding, Onion has a few bad posts that I'm currently attributing to being a new player.
It's not so much what the bad stuff he posted is, but how he writes it, and how he then reacts to accusations afterwards.

Every instinct I have goes "why, onion, why?", whenever he gives us reason to suspect him, but when we bring our issues up, it sometimes even takes him a while to realise

what

the accusation is.
I believe scum!onion would have known what part of his post had scummy motivations, and would try to explain that asap, rather than drawing attention to himself by talking more about it, in a way that is effectively asking people to build a case around him by explaining why what he did is wrong.

I'm

not

willing to lynch Onion.

Green Crayons

Bubs did a few suspicious things, and replaced out before he could clarify why.
SNS was... oh my gosh, I didn't think it was possible to look so scummy in so few posts.

And then we have Crayons, who completely blew my mind in the opposite direction.
Great detailed cases, whose premises don't sound forced, including a case on Onion that went against what I think was popular opinion.
I personally disagree with some of his conclusions, for reasons expressed in this post, but his cases aren't

bad

.
I just don't think they're strong enough, given the whole picture.

Where I was thoroughly scumreading him before, now I'm no longer super-sure of my scumread on the slot.
I don't think he'll be able to perpetuate this kind of thorough posting, if his cases are on town.

Possible scum.

LlamaFluff

Llama's day 1 focus on prawn confuses me.
His way of trying to portray his scumreads in the worst possible way also strikes me as excessive.

And yet, he's responsible for repeatedly strengthening several of my townreads with his reminders, and little details that he points out.
His day 2 game has

significantly

improved in my view, and I actually like his defense of why he tracked who he did, now that I've asked all I wanted to ask.
After interacting with Llama some more, and having him clear a few of my issues up, I'm starting to see how his confusing play might simply be due to a major flaw in communication.

Once more, I find myself

not

wanting his lynch.

TellTaleHeart

TTH is someone I've been trying to keep an eye on, ever since day 1, and can't really read one way or the other.

She peeks in to drop the occasional comment or question, but doesn't share a lot of her thoughts with the rest of us.
And where I might have be able to imagine her as quiet town day 1, her day 2 is giving me pause, since there really

isn't

much to look at, aside from her continued exchange with Llama.

I was hoping for some show of scumhunting, or even a satisfactory answer to Llama's questions, and instead TTH chooses to do neither.
Why?

Possible Scum.

It's getting

really

close to the deadline, and I still don't see other people voting Crayons due to his predecessor's play, so I'm going to hope we can lynch TTH instead of Llama. Please?

UNVOTE: Green Crayons
VOTE: TellTaleHeart

[onion]

:/ well sleep and then work for the next 18 hours, that means i'll be available for the few hours before lynch. try not to lynch equinox while i'm gone.

[Equinox]

Thanks for the link, onion. I was hoping I would have time to read it so I could get a sense of how onion plays tone-wise, especially to see if he's as pedantic in his scum game as he has been here, except 1) I literally just got home, can barely think straight, and have to get up early tomorrow morning, and 2) if I am understanding the Spies 7 board correctly, that meta is fairly old and I'm not sure how robust any personality tells I would get are after 2-5 years.

Last night, I did some reading. While I did not get to prawneater, I got a whole lot of LlamaFluff.

Vote: LlamaFluff

LlamaFluff's entry into the game differs significantly from other games I have played with him. In almost every other game, we interact; hell, we have rapport from playing with each other so much. Compare that to this game where he seems more detached, despite attacking GuyInFreezer and Untrod Tripod from the get-go, and he has practically avoided me despite claiming that he's bothered by not having a read of me in post 769. For some additional context, I won against him when I was scum, and, if I remember correctly, he did not read me as scum; he should be

acting

on that paranoia, not sitting there grumbling about 2-3 other people.

I'm not against lynching TellTaleHeart because that is pretty much the extent of my opinion on that slot, but the eleventh hour wagon now as opposed to 13 days ago when LlamaFluff and then onion has been the focus for much of the Day bothers me a great deal. I have town reads on Untrod Tripod and Derangement, so I feel like I shouldn't be thinking this, but I don't want to have the argument of whether or not LlamaFluff is scum pop up

again

Tomorrow and the answer still not clear.

try not to lynch equinox while i'm gone.

?

Anyway, my access tomorrow is sketchy, but I'll try my best given that it's deadline. There aren't questions in this post because loldeadline, but answers would still be good because mind-reading is a thing.

[Equinox]

Keep in mind that my vote makes 4 on LlamaFluff, which is L-1.

[LlamaFluff]

For some additional context, I won against him when I was scum, and, if I remember correctly, he did not read me as scum; he should be acting on that paranoia, not sitting there grumbling about 2-3 other people.

For what its worth I have no idea what game you are talking about. Last one I remember with you is Science and that I think was about a year ago.

Does this mean you are also quick lynching TTH tomorrow? Because that is happening if I get lynched today. I think nearly every time I get mislynched scum over commit themselves to my wagon for it to happen. You do realize that TTH has done nothing productive today, and prawn (probable partner) went from being ambivalent to me and ignoring TTH to suddenly somewhat scum reading TTH (after mentioning him for the first time in a month) yet jumping on my wagon right?

TTH + Prawn. Those are your two.