Mafia 104 - Revenge of the Crimson King - Game!

[Annachie]

How can trying to work out if we are looking for one or two scum groups help find scum? Please explain.

I don't know, I'm not the one that is doing it. That is why I asked you.

My mistake. Missing word.
*How can trying to work out if we are looking for one or two scum groups

not

help find scum?

So, you are suggesting that the scum were trying to bus swimmer to save Monkeyman? I don't understand what you are getting at here that makes swimmer more likely to be scum than town.

Nothing there makes Swimmer look scummy. But that's not my point.
You claim that Swimmer isn't scummy beause two Jupiter scum tried to lynch her.
But

You do realize that if we have multiple scum factions (which is likely) that they are trying to kill each other, right?

you must realise that that also doesn't make her look town either.

You seem to be trying very had to defend Muh/Swimmer and seem to link anyone who questions/investigates Muh to scum.

Tell me, do you think that Muh's lurking is suspicious?

[VP Baltar]

Not really, no. I think muh is probably a noob and thus an easy target for scum attacks.

How can trying to work out if we are looking for one or two scum groups not help find scum?

Because it won't lead to you lynching anyone at this point in the game. You have no clue what you are looking for because there is no EVIDENCE. Until we have another scum flip (be they mafia or third party), we have no clue what is going on and are much better off to be lynching based on scummy behavior or connections to the dead scum we do know of.

[RayFrost]

Hmmm...

annachie tossing out the stuff being tossed out is getting a hint of bad juju.

I feel the muh comment was trying to redirect VPB's attention.

I agree with VPB that muh is an easy a fook target, which is why he's a LoLR (lynch of last resort) for me.

re pads:

1. the gracing us with your presence thing was a joke, not an attack. (side note: annachie jumping on this to make it an attack is scummy)

2. I chose you out of the people that were inactive because I didn't remember that you were in the game until I read the player list. And you were posting in the you know which game.

3. I came to the conclusion that MM's play was not only similar to TTGL but also that his claim was poorly performed. So I revoted. Then I tracked him. Then I got back he killed sensfan.

Assuming two scum teams, your best conclusion here is the following:

1. I'm either town tracker or tracker for the opposing scum team

To be honest, I don't expect you to be trusting me at any point in time - I reacted too quickly to the claim, which led to me backtracking with new/remembered information, which led to this.

Regardless... I've got some iso reading to do. ta-ta~

[Raivann]

I just had a great idea about how to end the Muh debate...

Vote:Muh

Let's lynch him!

With all the attacking and definding of Muh I think a plethora of info would be gained. I know it will help me with my reads on all y'all who are so sure that he's newbtown in spite of swimmers posts, wysps non posts, Muhs posts and super lurking. If im wrong I'll help Merkabah eat Devestation's hats.

[Merkabah]

Or how's about we lynch Annachie, who just so happens to be scum.

[Merkabah]

-VPB

[Annachie]

lol. I haven't suggested lynching Muh. I'm just asking why Merk and Kise seem to be defending him so much.

Muh, come back to us and tell us what you think.

I decided to do the iso thing on Muh for myself, and Reckoner I disagree. Whole lot of nothing, but typical and neutral. Neutral. Biggest indicator:

Date of Birth: 09 Nov 1994

Kise, you got some things to answer though.

[Annachie]

Or how's about we lynch Annachie, who just so happens to be scum.

Only if you get lynched when it turns out I'm not.

[Wickedestjr]

I did not get the time to post anything of content today, but this is also my last day to make a post. So, I'll be crossing my fingers for you guys hoping that we lynch scum, because when I return it will probably be day 4 according to the deadline.

I would just like to suggest that you guys keep a close watch on Tar and Kise.

Until then, Percy will take over in 3 or 4 days I think until I get back.

[muh316]

So you want to lynch me because my playstyle was different from the last game. Yes it is. And not because im scum, because I have a personal life. Now I see it this way. A scum would never try to change his playstyle instead be as townish as he was before. Thats what we should look for here. And whats an ISO? sorry about the lame question.

And pads im not 12. And believe it or not manga is a popular thing these days. Thats why its in my avatar. and I dont think im playing with educated 21 year olds or 40 year olds.

[RayFrost]

lol. I haven't suggested lynching Muh. I'm just asking why Merk and Kise seem to be defending him so much.

Muh, come back to us and tell us what you think.

I decided to do the iso thing on Muh for myself, and Reckoner I disagree. Whole lot of nothing, but typical and neutral. Neutral. Biggest indicator:

Date of Birth: 09 Nov 1994

Kise, you got some things to answer though.

lulwut?

I'm 15.

July 22 1994.

I'm pretty sure age doesn't indicate a damned thing.

[RayFrost]

So you want to lynch me because my playstyle was different from the last game. Yes it is. And not because im scum, because I have a personal life. Now I see it this way. A scum would never try to change his playstyle instead be as townish as he was before. Thats what we should look for here. And whats an ISO? sorry about the lame question.

And pads im not 12. And believe it or not manga is a popular thing these days. Thats why its in my avatar. and I dont think im playing with educated 21 year olds or 40 year olds.

Ignoring the WIFOM...

iso is that thing at the bottom of the page that says "posts by: all users" where you can click the all users thing and click a name then click go and read just their posts.

Age doesn't dictate ability.

Now post some real content.

Now.

[Annachie]

Reading your posts in Isolation. ie: just searching and reading your posts without worrying about other peoples posts. Or at least that's how I understand it.

and Muh, I've been a manga fan for damn, over 30 years.

[xRECKONERx]

Let's please just lynch muh already, k?

[Raivann]

:high five:

[zoraster]

Sorry I've been out of this game, guys. It's been busy with finals and my time on here has been trying to sell an idea on MD. Anyway, let's get to some thoughts, going in some order of from IIoA to Analysis:

1. Merkabah goes from generally intelligible posts where he speaks coherently to annoying mastin-esque point by point analysis that doesn't further anything. I mention this just because shifts in tactic are always worth highlighting even if they don't make sense right now. I don't think this makes Merkabah scummy though, and he was trying to respond to.

EDIT: Oh yes. I forgot that Merkabah is a hydra, silly me. I'll leave that up just for the sake of pointing out my thought process, but I guess one of the heads is Mastin-esque and the other posts in a manner more likely to please me.

2. Raivann has been single-mindedly pursuing swimmer/muh. He literally does not bring up another suspicion the entire game with the vote on monkeyman that consisted of:

Vote:Monkeyman 2 trackers? Don't think so.

Then it was right back on muh. Of course, he's not the only one who's been all for a muh lynch as Reckoner has been a pretty big cheerleader of it too, but not in a single-minded way.

3. I don't see it as likely that muh is on the same scum team as MM and Exalt, frankly. 165, though early in the game, would be a pretty good scum triangle that I'm not sure the three of them could pull off (MM votes muh, Exalt protects muh from MM's "weak case"). later, exalt joins MM on muh's wagon. (208). It's also be a lot of distancing from merk for him to be on the jupiter team.

4. My reading is that muh is town. Just a really bad town. A lynch on him might give us some good information, but it wouldn't be my first choice as I don't particularly suspect him.

5. I think I'm going with the Annachie vote here. The slow play of the MM lynch. It's not

necessarily

that I even think or no that this ties them together (though see my last point). Rather, I think Annachie is desperate to appear to be protown, and I think the way he perceives to do this is to take the calm and collected approach.

Second, Annachie tries hard to make neutral sound like it's taking a big stand. He does say he gets a town feel from Ravainn which is something, I admit, but again it comes across to me like more of a smokescreen.

Third, he hides behind questions. I like questions when they can help direct the game somewhere, but these questions don't seem to be designed to get to any real answer. They're the question variant of IIoA:

Also, you say that you are damn certain that Dev is scum, he turns out to be town but you are still damn certain he's scum. Do you care to explain this?

How can trying to work out if we are looking for one or two scum groups help find scum? Please explain.

How can looking at a lurker who got brought to my attention be not helpful? (Yes, Vaya is next for that treatment from me)

What is wrong with commenting on Pads extreemly fortuitious timing? (Which lead me to iso him for a good town read if your interested.)

Furthermore, I find this statement to be truly weird:

Post #802 where I comment that I don't think we've had a full claim yet. BTW, we hadn't as it turned out.

802 says:" I don't think we've had the full claim yet. I suspect there is more, but as I said I'm inexperienced at non-newbie games. "

First of all, I'm not sure exactly what full claim he's talking about as MM had already come out with the odd day claim. This seems more like An is trying to prompt MM or something. He knows he has to be on the wagon, but he desperately wants someone else to say, "whoa, hold up here. this claim might be real."

Therefore:

vote: Annachie

[muh316]

Let's please just lynch muh already, k?

Try getting a bettter reason. Then everybody will consider it

[RayFrost]

Let's please just lynch muh already, k?

Try getting a bettter reason. Then everybody will consider it

Try posting content. Then you won't be so

annoying

scummy.

[Annachie]

Zor, did you realise that of your 9 posts in this game, the first 4 contain nothing but questions, two of the first three question people as to why they found MM scummy. Post four has rhetorical questions and a hammer vote.

Post five onwards contain no questions, though you clearly state that you like questions, and seem to be targeting me for asking them.

The key point, I believe, is that between your post four and post five I FOS'ed you because of the posibility that you were Jupiter scum shutting MM up. Something clearly worth investigating. (I FOS'ed someone else in that post by the way)

So now we appear to have a change in behaviour after someone gets suspicious of you, and the posibility of a OMGUS vote based on dubious reasoning.

I think you're Jupiter Mafia.

But I'm looking at Merk and Kise first because I think their defense of Muh is scummy and I really can't see the reason for it as that defense is the only thing that makes Muh look scummy.

[zoraster]

Zor, did you realise that of your 9 posts in this game, the first 4 contain nothing but questions, two of the first three question people as to why they found MM scummy. Post four has rhetorical questions and a hammer vote.

Post five onwards contain no questions, though you clearly state that you like questions, and seem to be targeting me for asking them.

The key point, I believe, is that between your post four and post five I FOS'ed you because of the posibility that you were Jupiter scum shutting MM up. Something clearly worth investigating. (I FOS'ed someone else in that post by the way)

So now we appear to have a change in behaviour after someone gets suspicious of you, and the posibility of a OMGUS vote based on dubious reasoning.

I think you're Jupiter Mafia.

But I'm looking at Merk and Kise first because I think their defense of Muh is scummy and I really can't see the reason for it as that defense is the only thing that makes Muh look scummy.

My that's some deflection without any response.

First, all of

my

questions came the same day as I was replacing as I was trying to get a handle on things. But no matter, I do like questions when they're trying to get at something that will help move the game along. Your questions that I posted are designed to look helpful. I doubt you're much concerned with the answers to the questions, but even if you get an answer to "how can trying to work out if we are looking for one or two scum groups help find scum?" it's not going to be something that actually leads to any real analysis. It is, as I have said, IIoA in question form.

That on its own isn't necessarily enough to condemn you. As I've said, I'm happy to have people ask questions. But put in the context of you trying to seem helpful without actually having to do some work that puts you on the line, well, it looks pretty bad.

It's funny you've accused me of OMGUS. It appears to be you projecting on me. You FoSed me, sure, but you haven't exactly expressed any further suspicion of me until now, when I've indicated you appear scummy.

I'd like everyone to look at this exchange and see if there isn't something really off with Annachie's post. Perhaps it's just me, but I doubt I will be the only one.

[RayFrost]

Zoraster is correct.

Annachie's post is OMGUS.

Annachie is scummy now.

Commencing Vote.

Unvote, Vote: Annachie

[Annachie]

But you decided to drop a hammer vote 4 hours later.

To that point your only comment about MM was to question people as to what made him scummy besides a false claim. Even in the hammer vote post you express no opinion on MM.

[Annachie]

You know, bugger it. I'm tired of waiting.

I was waiting for Kise to answer some questions, or for Muh to post content.

Muh, you've been asked often enough for content and have had plenty of time.
Kise, I asked you a bunch of questions for no answers.

Merk and Kise's actions have convinced me that they are part of a scum team with Muh.


It's time for answers.
Muh has votes against him so is the most likely to get lynched and give us those answers.

Vote Muh

When he flips 2nd party scum, I will vote Merk.

Zor, you will just have to wait your turn.

[zoraster]

But you decided to drop a hammer vote 4 hours later.

To that point your only comment about MM was to question people as to what made him scummy besides a false claim. Even in the hammer vote post you express no opinion on MM.

Sure did. I wonder what happened in those four hours?
Did...
(a) I read the game?
(b) Monkeyman claim to be

odd night

tracker despite SensFan being just a normal tracker?

I'm not sure there was much ambiguity in what I thought about MM when I voted for him.

I was waiting for Kise to answer some questions, or for Muh to post content.

Muh, you've been asked often enough for content and have had plenty of time.
Kise, I asked you a bunch of questions for no answers.

Merk and Kise's actions have convinced me that they are part of a scum team with Muh.


It's time for answers.
Muh has votes against him so is the most likely to get lynched and give us those answers.
Vote Muh
When he flips 2nd party scum, I will vote Merk.

Zor, you will just have to wait your turn.

It's amazing how much annachie's tactics have changed by being called into question. He's taken a sharp turn here so that not only is he attacking but he's apparently found 4 scum!

Take a look at what those targets of his have in common:

Kise

:
Post 856 Kise FoS Anna,
then in Post 922 he continues the attack.

Up until this point, Anna has made zero mentions of Kise, but suddenly Kise is a number one target.

Merkabah

: Anna makes a very light attack on Merk by saying that scum tend to be the ones making jokes in Post 765
and another "light" attack on him when he points out that Merk was wrong about Devastation's flip by asking him if he wants "sauce with that" (referring to Merk's comment that he'd eat a hat if dev wasn't scum) in Post 901.
But these are really good natured attacks and there's no bite to them. They're sort of casual remarks and not much more. But notice how the tenor changes after Merk's Post 919 where Merk actually votes anna. Suddenly Merk is defending muh (Post 923), and finally Merk is scum buddies with muh and Kise.

Zoraster

: Post 869 FoSes Zoraster, but after I explain it, he backs off and doesn't mention me again. This is a pretty light use of a FoS. But once I make Post 940 where I vote Anna, I'm suddenly almost certainly mafia.

By the way, in Post 923 says that when he (anna) started attacking Muh they jumped on him (keep in mind this is after both people's attacks on Anna). But read Anna's iso (this same post is iso 23).

BUT NOWHERE BEFORE DOES ANNA ACTUALLY MAKE ANY SORT OF ATTACK ON MUH OR SWIMMER

Here is the TOTALITY of the posts from Anna concerning Muh/Swimmer before 923:

xREC. Could you extend this to Swimmer as well? Since you did Muh, I'd like the consistancy of you doing Swimmer.

[analyzing Raivann]
Post 2. Didn't see CB's RVS comment as scummy, FOS Swimmer/Muh Opinion, but good opinions. (+)
Post 3. Fair Q to Swimmer/Muh. (+)
Post 7. Attack swimmer for lieing, antagonistic and not answering. No Swimmer lie though. Maybe swimmer missrep or BSing.
Overall positive town feel, though a rather nasty tunnel vission on Swimmer/Muh. Some newbieness showing when un-expected judging by his join date.

[in regards to Empking's posting]
Seriously Empking. You throw around votes with no reason given. Lurk like the king of lurkers. Ok, exageration. You lurked a lot. I don't think there's any actual content in anything you've posted. and considering how both you and Raivann have both been hung up on Muh/Swimmer for so long, to vote Raivenn now looks like a crappy bus.

That's it! If anything Anna's posts indicate a hesitancy over Muh-scum!


---

Now ask yourself. Are these inconsistencies the mark of a townie? Or are they the wild flailing of a caught scum? Obviously I come down firmly on the side of the latter.

[Percy]

@Mod: Could you send me Wickedestjr's role PM?

Hi everyone! I'm temporarily replacing Wickedestjr.

I'm posting from my phone as I'm still on holidays, but I'll be back and posting on about the 21st.