[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

ISO · Post Post #450 (ISO) » Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:44 am

I suspect it's still no better than original-newbie. The only change is that the Mafia are more likely to stop the Cop by N2, but even if they hit the enabler, they aren't in as good a position as if they hit the Doc, and so I don't think that would have a drastic impact on the EV.

It's worth remembering that the problem with original-newbie wasn't just that the town's chances of winning were too high; it's that the town's

best

chance of winning was to follow the "breaking strategy" (and it was a dramatic difference; I believe there was talk initially that the setup might be too much in favor of the scum). This suggestion doesn't change that.

PokerFace · Post Post #451 (ISO) » Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:38 am

Texas Justice with Outlaw Fix

9 One-Shot Vigs
3 Mafia Outlaws

You are a
Mafia Outlaw
. Your fellow Mafia Outlaws are XXXX and YYYY. Each night everyone alive on your faction is able to talk strategy and choose to kill one player. Because you are Outlaws and not just normal Goons, you may also block any one player as a group each night. Your faction can control and use both actions each night as long as at least one member is alive. The person you block and the person you kill can be the same person or could be 2 completly different people. You win when the town is eliminated or nothing can be done to prevent this. Good Luck.

You guys like this idea?
Think title and new role pm idea are good?
Does entire town need to be eliminated or just outnumbered by the mafia?

Seraphim · Post Post #452 (ISO) » Fri Feb 27, 2009 1:05 pm

Not eliminated but certainly they need to be outnumbered and the town can't have anymore one-shot kills. Also, any feedback on my set-up on the previous page?

Adel · Post Post #453 (ISO) » Fri Feb 27, 2009 1:32 pm

Seraphim wrote:
CP9 of Death Metal

1 Death Miller Cop
1 Doctor
2 Mafia Goons
5 Villagers

Once again, another variation of a standard set-up where Follow-the-Cop is highly discouraged. Let the cop WIFOM ensue! If cop claims as cop, the Mafia can counter-claim. If Mafia claims as cop, cop can counter-claim thus endangering both of them no matter the situation. Should provide for some interesting fun.

death miller is not a popular role.

why did you 5 townies instead of 3? C9 only has 7 players.

Seraphim · Post Post #454 (ISO) » Fri Feb 27, 2009 1:39 pm

Oh. Hmmm. Guess I got my set-ups confused.

I realize that Death Miller is not a popular role but it's a way(an extreme way) of discouraging follow-the cop.

F11 of Death Metal

1 Death Miller Cop
1 Doctor
2 Mafia Goons
5 Villagers

mykonian · Post Post #455 (ISO) » Fri Feb 27, 2009 1:39 pm

death millers aren't that bad in open games, you see them coming then.

Adel · Post Post #456 (ISO) » Fri Feb 27, 2009 1:48 pm

same question: why do you think that 5 townies is more balanced than 3 in that setup?

Elmo · Post Post #457 (ISO) » Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:23 pm

I think death metal is hilarious and would seriously consider /inning if I was looking for another game.

Empking · Post Post #458 (ISO) » Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:45 pm

Seraphim wrote:Oh. Hmmm. Guess I got my set-ups confused.

I realize that Death Miller is not a popular role but it's a way(an extreme way) of discouraging follow-the cop.

F11 of Death Metal

1 Death Miller Cop
1 Doctor
2 Mafia Goons
5 Villagers

It'd be better with three townies.

Arson in Wolf Wood

1 Arsonist
2 Wolves

1 Seer
1 Firefighter
3 Townies

Seraphim · Post Post #459 (ISO) » Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:07 am

On second thought, I think 3 townies would be better. It gives less room for falseclaims but also gives the cop less targets to investigate.

So, I'll put both set-ups here for further evaluation.

C9 of Death Metal

1 Death Miller Cop
1 Doctor
2 Mafia Goons
3 Villagers

F11 of Death Metal

1 Death Miller Cop
1 Doctor
2 Mafia Goons
5 Villagers

Lord Gurgi · Post Post #460 (ISO) » Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:15 pm

Why are you trying to discourage following the cop in a setup when you can just not put a cop in? If you really want to change that meta, change the way the cop works, not the way the town interacts with the cop's information.

Seraphim · Post Post #461 (ISO) » Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:41 pm

I don't want to change the meta, I just like messing up standard set-ups and creating new ones.

Lord Gurgi · Post Post #462 (ISO) » Sat Feb 28, 2009 4:23 pm

You should have a goal beyond "messing up" things. Gimmicky setups like that are only annoyances.

Elmo · Post Post #463 (ISO) » Sat Feb 28, 2009 5:13 pm

I like it on its own merits. I think it would be fun. :colbert:

This contrasts with "less experimental setups in the open queue" which I agree with, though. But I don't agree with your dismissive attitude here. :J

Lord Gurgi · Post Post #464 (ISO) » Sat Feb 28, 2009 5:20 pm

Elmo wrote:I like it on its own merits. I think it would be fun. :colbert:

This contrasts with "less experimental setups in the open queue" which I agree with, though. But I don't agree with your dismissive attitude here. :J

It will be battle of the breadcrumbs, it will.

Empking's Alt · Post Post #465 (ISO) » Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:48 pm

Seraphim wrote:On second thought, I think 3 townies would be better. It gives less room for falseclaims but also gives the cop less targets to investigate.

So, I'll put both set-ups here for further evaluation.

C9 of Death Metal

1 Death Miller Cop
1 Doctor
2 Mafia Goons
3 Villagers

Nominate

mykonian · Post Post #466 (ISO) » Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:53 pm

Sure Gurgi, you have a point. But if people want to play with a dead miller sometimes, open games is the place to do it. And also, the setup leans more on scumhunting then with a normal cop, because town will probably have contradicting evidence from "cops" at the end of the day.

On the other hand, I don't know if the doc is needed here. In case the real cop is very convincing, something that is likely to happen when he finds a guilty, the setup is broken instantly. in lylo there is less chance of this happening. That means that in case (1/3)*(3/5)*(2/3) ((chance of guilty n1)*(change of non pr nk)*(chance of investigating someone still in lylo)) the game doesn't have to be played. 13% of the times this happens.

Empking · Post Post #467 (ISO) » Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:28 pm

NK-Immune Miller Vig

2 Mafia

1 Cop
1 NK-Immune Miller Vig (Loses powers after N1)
1 Fake NK-Immune Miller Vig (Told he's a NK-Immune Miller Vig but isn't.)

mykonian · Post Post #468 (ISO) » Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:53 pm

ok, instant lylo. How big do you think the chance is that mafia is lynched then?

after that, the vig must shoot mafia, while the mafia cannot shoot the vig. (2/3)*(1/2), that happens 1/3 of the time. This is in case the vig isn't lynched. That's what I first thought.

Best town strategy? cop claim? If there is a cc, then two possibilities:

cop is lynched, vig shoots fake cop, 50% chance mafia doesn't shoot the vig, and it is game over. otherwise 2-1 lylo.

mafia is lynched, cop is nk'ed, vig shouldn't shoot. 2-1 lylo.

randomly 75% chance on 2-1, 1/3 that you win there. 25% town has lost anyway. Mafia wins 25%+(1/3)(75%)=75%

unbalanced...

Empking · Post Post #469 (ISO) » Sun Mar 01, 2009 12:12 am

Nominate: Lovers Mafa

Why shouldn't the vig shoot?

NK-Immune Miller Vig V.2

2 Mafia

1 Cop
1 NK-Immune Miller Vig (Loses powers after N1)
1 Fake NK-Immune Miller Vig who is also a back-up for the real NK-Immune Miller Vig(Told he's a NK-Immune Miller Vig but isn't.)

mykonian · Post Post #470 (ISO) » Sun Mar 01, 2009 12:50 am

Why shouldn't the vig shoot?

because the in case the mafia is lynched, and he misvig's, the game is over. Situation doesn't change if he doesn't shoot, only that there are 2 more talking about the lynch.

NK-Immune Miller Vig V.2

2 Mafia

1 Cop
1 NK-Immune Miller Vig (Loses powers after N1)
1 Fake NK-Immune Miller Vig who is also a back-up for the real NK-Immune Miller Vig(Told he's a NK-Immune Miller Vig but isn't.)

doesn't change: this is biased towards mafia, and by a lot. town wins 25% of the times with copclaim.

without copclaim. Assuming mafia isn't lynch day 1 (that is hard to do.), then town wins only 1/9 of the times.

Empking · Post Post #471 (ISO) » Sun Mar 01, 2009 1:13 am

mykonian wrote:
Why shouldn't the vig shoot?
because the in case the mafia is lynched, and he misvig's, the game is over. Situation doesn't change if he doesn't shoot, only that there are 2 more talking about the lynch.

NK-Immune Miller Vig V.2

2 Mafia

1 Cop
1 NK-Immune Miller Vig (Loses powers after N1)
1 Fake NK-Immune Miller Vig who is also a back-up for the real NK-Immune Miller Vig(Told he's a NK-Immune Miller Vig but isn't.)
doesn't change: this is biased towards mafia, and by a lot. town wins 25% of the times with copclaim.

without copclaim. Assuming mafia isn't lynch day 1 (that is hard to do.), then town wins only 1/9 of the times.

What makes you think cop claims the best?

How can it be certain that the mafa won't be lynched day 1 without making it clear that they're scum?

mykonian · Post Post #472 (ISO) » Sun Mar 01, 2009 1:25 am

Empking wrote:What makes you think cop claims the best?

because that can confirm one person, and in case of a cc, it also confirms one scum. Both cases you get 50% of lynching scum randomly.

How can it be certain that the mafa won't be lynched day 1 without making it clear that they're scum?

Simply because it is 2 against 3. All the town people must agree on the lynch, without knowledge of previous days. That is hard.

Empking · Post Post #473 (ISO) » Sun Mar 01, 2009 2:40 am

Can you explain how you get 1/9, I don't get it.

PokerFace · Post Post #474 (ISO) » Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:06 am

Empking's Alt wrote:
Seraphim wrote:On second thought, I think 3 townies would be better. It gives less room for falseclaims but also gives the cop less targets to investigate.

So, I'll put both set-ups here for further evaluation.

C9 of Death Metal

1 Death Miller Cop
1 Doctor
2 Mafia Goons
3 Villagers

Nominate

I agree with this. Run it.

Though I plan to call it Death Metal C9. Saying the Hex first or saying the of at all, feels so off.