Open 193 - Friends and Enemies: It's over!

[Zorblag]

@Vi, my job is as a townie is to try to lynch scum. I happen to know that this doesn't mean lynching who I think is scum as I've been known to be particularly wrong often when I'm town. As such I cast my vote where I think it's most likely to hit scum and then see what others do with their suspicions. As the game goes on my chances of gaining the information that I need to make the right choices increases.

My top suspects day three were hitogoroshi and SerialClergyman. Do you think that I didn't spend the day talking mostly to and about them? If so why did we have the following exchange?

Troll: Would you like to talk about someone other than hito or SerialClergyman?

@Vi, I'm not hugely interested in talking with people other than hitogoroshi and SerialClergyman at this point, no. Seeing what everyone else has to say about them is satisfying at this point and I'm most interested in seeing, among other things most easily accomplished by talking to them in particular, if there's some reason that I should stop suspecting them.

I have played with Debonair Danny DiPietro once before. He was the cop in the newbie game we were in together. His detachment there ended before the first day ended.

Why is Debonair Danny DiPietro being on all the lynches and off the mislynches a strong town tell when he'd have the ability to do the that easily as scum? As town it takes work but as scum he's got the inside information to manage it without any scum hunting. If that's your only reason to think that he should be town then color me unimpressed.

Do you think that discussion today should be coming to an end? If there's a good one then it's probably time for me to vote. If not then I continue not to be in a hurry. Is there some reason that you'd rather have me casting a vote here?

@Debonair Danny DiPietro, did you think that I wasn't willing to vote for SerialClergyman at the time? Why would you expect me to hunker down and not be willing to make that change?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@Debonair Danny DiPietro, did you think that I wasn't willing to vote for SerialClergyman at the time? Why would you expect me to hunker down and not be willing to make that change?

And let me quote your post again, "@Vi, my vote is still on hitogoroshi because I think he's still the most likely to be scum." There are not caveats or quid pro quos in that statement, merely Hito is scummiest. You changed your vote out of ill intent or laziness and I don't believe that the Zorblag who would drop five consecutive wall posts in LYLO is that lazy.

And if you're making the argument instead that you saw absolutely no difference between SC and Hito and were willing to acquiesce to whatever lynch was available that doesn't move my read either because that's scummy as hell. Either you had a firm opinion and chose to disregard it to facilitate an easier lynch or you were just wandering through the day without a firm opinion at all. This is despite the fact that you spent "so much" time questioning both of them and nearly the entire day revolved around the two of them; you weren't able to get a good read as one far more likely scum or one far more likely town? I don't buy it.

[Zorblag]

@Debonair Danny DiPietro, I said at the start of the day that they were two best lynches. hitogoroshi was my first choice and I stayed with it until there was a reason to think that it wasn't going to happen but my second choice was. Did you even look at my last explanation about my response to Vi's question?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[hitogoroshi]

@hitogoroshi, I've been drinking pretty heavily tonight but so far as I can tell from the pair analysis you're doing everything that you found in the first section you did (looking at how people reacted after I expressed suspicion of xRECKONERx) that you're using as a point against them being my partner could also be used as a point against them being Debonair Danny DiPietro's partner as well. As you noted, he was on the xRECKONERx case even before I was. That's actually been something VP Baltar has brought up previously (I'm thinking the beginning of the day today offhand) which I'd think you should be aware of prior to that last post.

I'm all for you looking through pairs of partners but I also want you to come to conclusions in the process. If you're going to argue that pairs are the way to go then you have to be able to get results from looking at them more than you would individuals. Right now it feels like you're wasting time.

My awareness of the issue was on the level of 'all of Zorblag, DDD, and VP bussed Reck'. I didn't realize that DDD's bus was so much earlier than yours, and I think that part of it is that it's one to hear it summarized and quite another to hit 'page back....page back...page back...there??'

As for feeling a waste of time, well, right now I'm running with it and getting things. If it looks like I'm not coming to conclusions that's because I'm not at the moment. I'm entertaining each argument separately; the conclusion comes when a lot of arguments end up agreeing. But this is not a 'case' where I know in advance what the arguments will end up agreeing on. That's one of the major reasons I want pair analysis - because my biases are going to factor in to this much, much less. It's hard to forget your scum reads even when they end up being ground in bad logic, but it's very easy to forget your suspicions for pair analysis, and I'm doing my hardest to do just that. I'm going to bury each little thing without remembering what I buried before, and then when time demands it (two, three days with this deadline) I'm gonna dig them all up and ask who I should be voting for.

But you're absolutely right that I should have back-clarified when I saw that DDD was so early. That post really was strictly in order and I got a bit distracted looking at Reck's thing. I should have done an analysis at DDD's vote the same way I did one at your argument. They won't be the 'same' points as the ones that apply to you, but they will certainty be worth examining. Let's do that now.

DDD 413 is his vote on Reck. Same general formula as before - scum would most like to ignore this, kinda like to oppose it, and be really hesitant to agree right then and there.

VP's first post after DDD's vote is a battlewall on charlie that briefly turns to Reck. He expresses hesitance to lynch off of just Amish's tell. (Side note to Zorblag: this is why it's not quite as easy as 'everything used as a point against them being my partner is a point against them being DDD's partner.) I want to call this a point for DDD/VP scumbuddies because "I don't want to lynch off of just this, but I'm not completely against it like you're saying." However, this is a bit colored because charlatan did misquote him pretty hard and his anger is, I think, anger that would be there as townie just as well as scum. Still, VP's statement boils down to 'I'm not voting Reck now but if it becomes a full wagon I probably wouldn't mind' which is a have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too for scum - but one diffused because town-VP has a good reason to be saying that in the same situation.

Vi didn't post for quite a while after. Of course, I'm not suggesting this lurking was game-related, but it's still something to frame your thoughts that this isn't necessarily related to DDD's vote in any way. And yet, this is the same thing as with Zorblag's. Her first content post after DDD's vote does a lot to undermine Reck's credibility but doesn't follow up with a vote. It's all of the awkward-killing-your-friends interaction of a bus without the actually 'hey lookit lynched a scum' happiness of a bus. I don't see any incentive for Vi-scum to follow up her partners bus vote by pointing out scummy things that Reck has done without ever actually jumping on his wagon.

And yet, as soon as I typed that, I can kinda see a possible incentive. If Vi-scum points out scummy things Reck has done, then that also serves to bolster the legitimacy of DDD's vote on Reck. And while I say she didn't follow through with the bus, I'm realizing that I forgot about our double-day. Reck was taken to L-1, disarmed, and then lynched later. I say Vi didn't bus because that was true in the end - but she DID put Reck to L-1, and who's to say that wasn't an unrealized and subsequently abandoned bus? (And how much does this apply to Vi's response to Zorblag?) Null points while I mull on it.

As for Zorblag, I did give my thoughts on that already. If Zorblag and DDD are scum together than they are so far beyond the levels of thought I can muster that this is all a waste of time anyway.

Hey hito, realistically speaking there are only two people getting lynched Today. Now that that's out there, do you think you would do better going for individual reads?

Not at all. The strong possibility that only one of two people is realistically being lynched is exactly what's powering my thoughts right now. There are only four possible teams, and two of them are either busing or have to about face their suspicions to get the mislynch. I think it'll be, in this case, EASIER to pick the scum by picking them both.

Thanks much for the vote count analysis.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@Debonair Danny DiPietro, I said at the start of the day that they were two best lynches. hitogoroshi was my first choice and I stayed with it until there was a reason to think that it wasn't going to happen but my second choice was.

Did you even look at my last explanation about my response to Vi's question?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

Do you mean this?

@Vi, my job is as a townie is to try to lynch scum. I happen to know that this doesn't mean lynching who I think is scum as I've been known to be particularly wrong often when I'm town. As such I cast my vote where I think it's most likely to hit scum and then see what others do with their suspicions. As the game goes on my chances of gaining the information that I need to make the right choices increases.

[Zorblag]

@Debonair Danny DiPietro, no, I mean this:

Have you looked at the context in which Vi was asking why my vote was still on hitogoroshi just after making their case that hitogoroshi wasn't scum. It's a case that I didn't agree with. I took the question to mean why was I still voting for hitogoroshi when he wasn't scum to which my response was that I did still find him the most likely to be scum. Do you think that I hadn't expressed suspicion of SerialClergyman prior to that?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Head_Honcho]

The I Thought I Posted This Already Votecount:

Zorblag(1): Debonair Danny DiPietro

Not Voting(4): VP Baltar, Vi, Zorblag, hitogoroshi
With 5 alive it's 3 to lynch.

[VP Baltar]

No, it was an absolutely pointless statement intended as a funny joke... in LYLO... with votes on the board. Of course I was serious, I fail to see the causality in your posts or a larger narrative; it mostly seems to consist of whining that I haven't been active enough or that I'm taking credit for being more active than I have.

Tell you what, normally I try not to argue with scum because it's like running your head into a wall and generally doesn't accomplish more than what can be done with some gentle prodding of the town, but seeing as this is lylo and winning this game would mean a bit to me, I'll outline the longer narrative for you later today after I finish my morning stories. It has very little to do with you "playing badly" as you want to paint it.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@Debonair Danny DiPietro, no, I mean this:

Have you looked at the context in which Vi was asking why my vote was still on hitogoroshi just after making their case that hitogoroshi wasn't scum. It's a case that I didn't agree with. I took the question to mean why was I still voting for hitogoroshi when he wasn't scum to which my response was that I did still find him the most likely to be scum. Do you think that I hadn't expressed suspicion of SerialClergyman prior to that?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

Well no, I don't find that compelling at all. You didn't find the arguments for Hito-town sound and stated unequivocally that Hito was most likely to be scum, that doesn't change the context for your behavior at all. And yes, you flacked SC some, but based on your actions and words it reads to me as a very clear number one and a clear number two; you call Hito the most likely to be scum, you vote him early and hold that vote throughout the entire day, never unvoting to pressure SC in a serious fashion. I'm not sure where in those words and actions someone is supposed to make the leap that SC was nary a hair behind Hito in your mind as you're suggesting.

[Zorblag]

@Debonair Danny DiPietro, why should I only be willing to be part of my top choice for a lynch in an 8 player game with two scum? Yes, hitogoroshi was my first choice. I thought he would have been a better lynch than SerialClergyman at the time. That doesn't mean that I thought the SerialClergyman lynch was a bad one. He was my clear second choice and I didn't think it was a bad option at all. Why would I need to move my vote around to apply pressure to him for that to be true? You're still trying to spin my play yesterday in a way that didn't happen and doesn't make sense.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[VP Baltar]

Ok, DDD, it's time to look at the points I raised against you and how they have absolutely nothing to do with "bad play" and everything to do with "scummy play".

1) You have done approximately zero scum hunting this game, despite promising to do so early.

Scummy motivation: You made excuses for not being active early after being pressured about it by saying that 'itsa commin', yet it never comes. Looks to me like the exact same kind of excuse making you were doing in Appenine to me.

2) You go from thinking Amished is the scummiest player in the game to following him completely on Reckoner.

Scummy motivation: you wanted to make yourself look good later in the game. Reck was clearly not going to be lynched on Day 1 and your lack of any pushing for it wasn't helping anything. However, you've been able to conveniently (and vocally) claim now that you were SOOO right about Reck in the first place.

3) Claiming credit for the Reckoner wagon

Scummy motivation: while this may be relatable to the last point, it is a major sticking point for me. YOU DID NOTHING TO FURTHER THE WAGON, and yet seem to be portraying yourself as a hero over it. You were just far too certain about it for my taste and I think it was deliberate.

4) All of our masons were top scum targets for you

Scummy motivation: Obviously if you had a semi-mason read on any of them, trying to get lynches going on them to the point of claiming would help narrow down your mason reads and help you to better direct your night kills.

---

Now to finally address DDD's responoses to my iso of him:

I got behind Amished’s theory pretty much as soon as he promoted it; I tried to get him back on that wagon when he left it for the D1 mislynch. As soon as D2 began I jumped back on the wagon and unlike others never wavered; I’m not sure how I could’ve run with that idea more than I did.

Even if we exclude that I think I’m hardly alone in being more than a little uncertain and indecisive in this game.

Again, this is you claiming FAR more credit for anything Reck related than you actually did. You voted and essentially lurked after charlatan was L-2 and was pretty much dead. Then Day 2 you voted and said very little. I don't see how this is you "running" with anything. As far as the bolded, well I agree that scumhunting this game has been very difficult, but I don't see you doing much of it or trying to work things out.

As the numbers from Apennine showed there was a significant gap in my meta. I would’ve been a fool not to fix the gap. Since it was easier to slow down my activity to my scum level than ramp up my scum activity to town levels that’s what I did. I’ve never denied that and I’ve never used meta as a positive argument except to counter those trying to make the argument that it indicts me.

Ok, as long as you admit it I'm cool. I know you're a very smart guy and I wanted Vi to realize that you know your own meta.

So when I found something and ran with it overconfidently that’s scummy; except earlier I was being chided for not running with anything. If you want to get on my case about the argument with Amished being poor that’s fine because it was poor, but your arguments about not running with anything versus being convinced are at cross-purpose and are absolute nonsense.

No, I don't think Amished's arguments were poor. In fact, I think I'm the person who knows his argument best. I've seen it before and he and I have had extensive discussions about it when we've played as a hydra.

My issue isn't that you ran with something either. My issue is that you ran with something from your top scum suspect. I find it hard to believe that you did a 180 on your read over a tell you've never seen before and could easily be seen as contrived.

In this game I’m the only person who hasn’t been voting confirmed town at deadline: you, Vi, and Zorblag were all on the D1 mislynch, PCE was on another town wagon; I was voting for scum. Vi was also voting for a pro-town player on D2 while I helped lynch scum. And on D3 Hito was voting a pro-town player; while VPB, Vi, and Zorblag all contributed to the mislynch. Scumhunting is just the tool to find and lynch scum and by that standard you have absolutely no place to chide me. For all your “scumhunting” you’ve lynched more town than scum; the same cannot be said about me.

Again, Mr. Perfect outside the reality of actually not knowing who the scum were from the start. I think you're a great player, but far from infallible in your reads. Pardon me if I find this more than hard to swallow.

So your argument here is that I’m too confident that the player who flipped SCUM would flip TOWN and that’s why I’m that player’s scum partner.

At least you made it obvious that you’re blatantly making shit up with that last one. Really trashes the positive read I had on you from the rest of the game.

Day 5 and you haven't been on a SINGLE mislynch. Show me a single other game where you reached Day 5 and did the same thing and I'd have to reconsider my position.

[Vi]

I disagree strongly with DDD's argument that the SerialClergyman lynch was inevitable. If it wasn't inevitable, I wouldn't have given up and joined it. Let's look at where everyone stood at the end of D3.

And you're telling me that if Zorblag had hunkered down and dug in his heels you don't think he could've gotten either you or Sando to make the opposite move he did? It's not like we were sitting under deadline where a move had to be made. Other people were willing to stick to their principles, why not Zorblag?

You said it yourself - Sando

was

willing to stick to his principles.
Sando plainly came out and said he was "committed" to the SC lynch. There's a reason I put down that Sando wasn't interested in lynching anyone else in the chart on the previous page.

--

I'm reading through Troll's post 1300 and finding that I don't have the ammunition that I thought I did. I still maintain that Troll didn't say much about hito being scummy D3, and I'm still really bothered by how he says that he votes and doesn't bother trying to convince others he's right; that doesn't seem like a plausible Town mindset. With that said, I've looked through my cache of vote spreadsheets from games past and I have to admit I have been cruelly betrayed by statistical reality - there are many more scum who avoided every lynch than Town in the games I've kept track of (5:1 scum:Town IIRC).

I'll look at DDD in the morning.

[Zorblag]

@Vi, the not trying to convince others that I'm right after my vote probably shouldn't be that surprising to you. Here's what I had to say on the issue back in Tofu Mafia. I could dig up other games where I've said that was how I play my games as town as well if you like (I recall it being an issue getting people to believe it in /in-vitational 2) but this is one that you would have seen first hand (this was just the first place I found it in the game in a fairly casual search for a few key words; it wouldn't be surprising if it came up more than once.)

As for leading a lynch, Elmo's view be interesting. Troll knows that when Troll votes Troll typically no follows that up with an attempt to get the one Troll has voted for lynched. This game alone be replete with examples of Troll incorrectly voting for town. Troll no assumes that Troll must be right in Troll's votes and most of the time be more interested in seeing how others will react to what Troll has found worth voting than trying to push it on others. It could be that a vote means more for Elmo means it does for Troll (and actually day two of this game might well indicate that be the case) but this view of voting strikes Troll as overly cautious offhand.

I'm glad that you're going to take another look at Debonair Danny DiPietro now but I'm still puzzled as to why it was that you've taken so long to think it was worth doing. I assume that when you're talking about town vs. scum staying off all the lynches you mean staying off all the mislynches but potentially being on the scum lynches. I'm baffled that you think that was a strong enough town tell before looking that up to use it as such a major part of your argument.

@hitogoroshi, I had hoped that you would find the time to get that post in this evening that it sounded like you thought you would. Clearly I'm in no position to chide anyone for missing the deadlines they set for themselves but I feel that you're taking a path towards scum hunting which is inherently more time consuming than looking for individual scum. It would be reassuring to see progress at this point.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[hitogoroshi]

Vi's vote count thing:

VPB -> Vi (36) - Day 1
Vi -> PCE (41)
Vi -> PCE (297)
Vi -> DDD (312)
PCE -> DDD (373)
--Day 2
Troll -> hito (917) - Day 3
VPB -> hito (950)
Vi -> VPB (1077)
DDD -> hito (1093)
--Day 4
DDD -> Troll (1276) - Day 5

Anything to divine from this? Vi's DDD vote in 312 isn't anything I see scumbuddies being afraid to do to each other. And then, aside from Vi > VP (which I'm not considering here) not any until DDD's vote today. How significant is that, I wonder? None of the possible scumteams (Vi/VP, Vi/DDD, Zorblag/VP, Zorblag/Vi) have bussed, except for Vi's 312 which doesn't count. Would scum who hadn't voted each other yet be inclined to do so in lylo? I'm thinking back and I remember people thinking that the scum reaallly wanna bus. And the opposites thing I think would apply here - scum that bussed one partner could very well feel tricky by reporting strong town on the other. A point for the straight scumteams (the ones trying to win today) and a point against the bus teams (with one scum trying to win tomorrow).

Expanding on a thing. I think with what's happened I can't see VP NOT voting for DDD today. So let me look at this, the 'if busing' part of my analysis:

DDD-scum's buddy is VP. VP will either find a reason not to follow through on his stated suspicions on DDD and try to mislynch Zorblag for the win, or bus DDD and do something after that. I don't know who he'd leave alive, honestly.

Who'd he leave alive? Vi would probably have to be his mislynch, and Zorblag would be the one he tries to sway. I'd be night killed.

What are the odds of that happening? I'm not really feeling that. I think VP scum with DDD would have tried to get Vi on a Zorblag misylnch. The bus doesn't feel too natural to me here, especially when it seems so much harder than the straight win, and it's a pretty strong blow to the idea of a VP/DDD scumteam.

[VP Baltar]

hito, who do you want to lynch today?


Happy birthday, Vi!

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I'm working on two large posts one to take apart VPB's attempt at a narrative and another to encapsulate the Zorblag scum narrative; they will be posted this afternoon. Deadline is in two days so I think these will have to be my definitive words on the matter and everyone who is undecided or playing at undecided will need to find some onions and vote, a no lynch is a scum win and playing it so close is like Tyson switching his vote on Survivor last night, just foolhardy.

[VP Baltar]

Tyson switching his vote on Survivor last night

lol

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

In response to VPB; first off despite your attempts to characterize my statements that way I never promised to put together some fantastic scum hunting posts as you’ve suggested. I said when I found something interesting, I would run with it. I found Amished’s interactions with me interesting, I ran with it. I decided I was wrong and that he raised good points about Rec, I ran with that.

Second, I made it absolutely clear that I’ve never seen scum burn a tell like Amished would have been doing. I also made it clear that I found the logic behind the position sound. Your position also rests upon the assumption that I found Amished extremely scummy and wanted him dead that instant when that was never my position. In fact I said after Vi rebuffed my initial Amished arguments, “And bear in mind, that it was you people who decided that when I finally said something it would be some super terrific point; I never claimed to have any phenomenal insight only that when something did interest me I would pursue it.” Do those sound like the words of someone who is completely confident of their position and driving towards a lynch? Or do they sound more like the words of someone whose found something they don’t like and have decided to push the issue to gather more information? I think from any sort of neutral perspective the second is the logical conclusion.

Third, yes it’s my fault that I was right on D1 and then on D2 and tried to hand you a scum lynch, but you ignored me on D1 and dicked around on D2. I still find it the funniest thing in the world when I get criticized for being right by people who got it wrong.

Fourth, obviously the masons were huge targets of mine as I helped to create those massive bandwagons on Oj and Sando that had them claiming their roles to save their lives. What do you mean that never happened? What do you mean I never voted for either of them? VPB, really, if you’re trying to argue that I did absolutely nothing to contribute to the Rec wagon despite voting for it; it makes absolutely no sense for you to turn around and claim that by my words alone without even voting I somehow seriously imperiled or intended to imperil Oj or Sando.

~~~

Day 5 and you haven't been on a SINGLE mislynch. Show me a single other game where you reached Day 5 and did the same thing and I'd have to reconsider my position.

Remember, we’ve only had three days of actual lynches not five. I can pull a town game that I believe my success is reasonably close to this one. The game is Open 142: True Love where I identified scum early on day one, voted to wagon got scum lynched. Day two was over in a day or so with the rest of the town voting against my advice. With the true love variant in play I had the wrong person on D3, but the right pairing and lynching with me would’ve won the town the game, but I got lynched in that game on D3 for camping my vote on scum and under contributing and being too sure of the D2 mislynch. Conversely, I have never won a game as scum without being on at least two mislynches and even in my scum losses I’ve always been on at least one mislynch.

Everyone needs to read the game above (it’s short, only twelve pages); if you read that game and come back and want to lynch me in this one I will laugh my damn head off.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

The case on Zorblag. I may have said much of this before, but it bears repeating in comprehensive form. First let’s look at a day by day analysis of his play. On day one he’s very early on the charlatan wagon; the rest of you now know that this is a bad wagon. I’m getting flack for camping on a scum wagon, then what should it be said about Zorblag that he’s camping on a town wagon? The interesting thing is that he very much gets interested in other players in this day, but never unvotes charlatan.

He also has a very confusing set of posts in regard to the PCE wagon. Stating, “My top three choices for lynches today at this time, in order are charlatan, xRECKONERx, PorkchopExpress.” And then “I don't really understand how this PorkchopExpress wagon got going.” And in the next post, “@Vi, although it seems pretty likely that there's scum on the PorkchopExpress wagon one way or another I don't know that I'd call it scum driven.

The next day he has a dearth of posts; he votes Rec in the first and provides a summary of the game while apologizing repeatedly for going missing. It’s fun that I’m getting killed for my long maintenance of my vote on Rec, but Zorblag is getting a pass for the same thing except his vote came at an even more convenient time.

Day three Zorblag is only interested in two people, SC is town and at this point I feel very safe in making the assumption that Hito is town. He tries even during the very day to portray one of their lynches as inevitable which is extremely anti-town because it seeks to limit discussion. Where Sando-town dug in his heels for his choice, where DDD-town dug in his heels for his choice, where SC-town dug in his heels about not voting Hito, where likely-town Hito dug in his heels on not voting SC, and maybe town Vi dug in her heels, Zorblag-scum felt absolutely no compunction about flipping choices.

Today he’s the second to last person to take a stance on anything; he waits until VPB, myself, and Vi have already taken stands before he says anything. And his performance is entirely theatrical despite his protests to the contrary as despite his stated consideration of me as a misguided townie he never tries to convince me that there’s a better choice for a lynch and thus his play is solely as a show to try and convince the other townies to try and mislynch me.

~~~

Meta: I don’t have a big meta of Zorblag; only a single game. However, one thing I did note in that game is that Zorblag did have a firm lynching preference that he fought for. There was none of this, “well I’ve got three top lynch candidates” or “I’ll accept either a Hito or SC lynch” that we've seen in this game.

In terms of general playstyle; VP Baltar and/or Vi would be wise to remember Apennine Mafia where scum had absolutely no problem flip flopping to whatever lynch was convenient at the time; it’s classic scum and Zorblag has worked to disguise this attitude somewhat, but it’s still right there under the surface in his early attitudes. Finally, look at the posting style and it feels very much like this style I have as scum. He varies between being very active and disappearing for long stretches; I know as scum I often have a hard time getting into a game but when I do it’s very easy to become committed and work hard and then slip out the back door to let the town destroy itself and then slip back in and then repeat the cycle as needed.

In conclusion:

Confirm Vote: Zorblag

[hitogoroshi]

Hey, DDD, who do you think is the most likely buddy for Zorblag-scum?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Hey, DDD, who do you think is the most likely buddy for Zorblag-scum?

Well pairings aren't my main concern as long as there exists viable options. But I think it's VP Baltar playing for the win; I can't and won't rule out Vi but I think VPB does fit better into the spot. If we do lynch Zorblag and Vi and VPB aren't playing a large and elaborately cruel hoax and he flips scum I'll go back and review further with the new information if I make it through the night but today I've been focused on simply getting this one right.

[VP Baltar]

In response to VPB; first off despite your attempts to characterize my statements that way I never promised to put together some fantastic scum hunting posts as you’ve suggested. I said when I found something interesting, I would run with it. I found Amished’s interactions with me interesting, I ran with it. I decided I was wrong and that he raised good points about Rec, I ran with that.

I don't want to get into a semantics argument because those are never helpful, but judging from this we either have very different definitions of 'running' with something or you're just trying trump up your general play.

Second, I made it absolutely clear that I’ve never seen scum burn a tell like Amished would have been doing. I also made it clear that I found the logic behind the position sound. Your position also rests upon the assumption that I found Amished extremely scummy and wanted him dead that instant when that was never my position. In fact I said after Vi rebuffed my initial Amished arguments, “And bear in mind, that it was you people who decided that when I finally said something it would be some super terrific point; I never claimed to have any phenomenal insight only that when something did interest me I would pursue it.” Do those sound like the words of someone who is completely confident of their position and driving towards a lynch? Or do they sound more like the words of someone whose found something they don’t like and have decided to push the issue to gather more information? I think from any sort of neutral perspective the second is the logical conclusion.

By burning a tell, you mean that people wouldn't trust him with it later if he tried to use it? Perhaps, but I've seen him use it several times and it is actually fairly accurate (still waiting for site meta to change considering how vocal he's been with it). I'm not sure if it'd actually be burnt or not, but I can understand you saying that as town.

As far as your flip in position on him, well in the words of your avatar, Bullshit! You didn't just have a casual vote on him you were sitting on until something better came along. You were legitimately pursuing him as your top suspect and "running" with that more than you even did against Reck, who you claim was so blatantly scummy from the moment that Amished pulled his tell.

I don't know. I seriously need to think about if I can believe you would flip just like that over a tell you purportedly have no familiarity with.

Third, yes it’s my fault that I was right on D1 and then on D2 and tried to hand you a scum lynch, but you ignored me on D1 and dicked around on D2. I still find it the funniest thing in the world when I get criticized for being right by people who got it wrong.

For the last time, it doesn't have to do with you being right about Reck. Hell, I thought you were townish for it for a long time. It's being OVERLY right with apparently no real effort and then trying to exaggerate your contribution that bothers me.

Fourth, obviously the masons were huge targets of mine as I helped to create those massive bandwagons on Oj and Sando that had them claiming their roles to save their lives. What do you mean that never happened? What do you mean I never voted for either of them? VPB, really, if you’re trying to argue that I did absolutely nothing to contribute to the Rec wagon despite voting for it; it makes absolutely no sense for you to turn around and claim that by my words alone without even voting I somehow seriously imperiled or intended to imperil Oj or Sando.

Where did I say you imperiled them? I said you attacked all of the masons at one point or another and seriously. I don't think the support was really ever there for any of their lynches, so as scum it would be doubtful that you would push it too hard, but you certainly can't deny that you said at one point or another that you thought all of them scum.


As far as the game you provided, I will read it as I eat dinner I think, but judging by your description, you could have simply said, "No, I don't have a game where I have been as successful as this one."


Hey, hito:

who do you want to lynch today?

[Zorblag]

At this point I've seen the stances that I wanted to make sure that I would. I don't expect that I'll be around come day six but if I am I see the paths that people are taking to the end of today which is what I needed. I'll have some things to say tomorrow but tonight it's late. For now it's just time to

Vote: Debonair Danny DiPietro

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[hitogoroshi]

It's late at night and I checked this and for some reason I thought DDD already had a vote (and that Zorblag put him to L-1) but that's not what happened and those few paragraphs I wrote were a waste of time.

I'll get in here tomorrow when it's not so late, but in the meantime, please, no one else vote anyone, mkay?

[VP Baltar]

Vi, I really want to hear your thoughts on DDD at this point. You said you were going to look back and I want to hear it before I vote either Troll or DDD. I'll be around for deadline at least until 2 or so.