Mini 955 - Classic Mafia - Over

[TheCheshireCat]

Hey Podium, would you mind terrible getting an avi :/ , sometimes i pass yo right up because its harder to see that you posted.
kthx

[Seacore]

I would also like Deer to respond to my point about the distinction he made between scummy and interesting

[esuriospiritus]

Hmm. Not much to go on yet still.

Seacore is pushing a semantics case on Deer a little too hard, methinks. Not scummy, per se, just worth noting as it could be an early distancing attempt.

Podium needs an avatar.

Wicked gets town points for making what seems to me to be an obvious effort to get out of the RVS asap and jumpstart discussion.

TLJ's total lack of comment regarding my vote on him is irksome. What do you think of being the first to two votes, TLJ? Am I suspicious for my wagon vote on you? What do you think about Wicked claiming to know who the scum are? Are you going to post-restrict yourself to only replying with Scripture? Because that would be kind of awesome.



-

I've taken the LA notice out of my sig, but please note that I still do not have internet in my apartment and will probably not post more than once every 24 hours or so until further notice.

[Seacore]

I would have given Wicked town points except for this post.
Particularly the "Is it not possible for a townie to figure out who's scum."

He was insistent on people discussing his claim to know the scum, and when I started discussing (albeit by dismissing it) he votes me.

Wicked

Only a single class of people now who is scum and who isn't at this point of the game.

Scum.

So please, tell us who your buddies are.

You seem a bit too quick to eliminate the possibility of me being town. Is it not possible for a townie to figure out who's scum? Why do you automatically assume I'm scum?

Vote: Seacore

[The Lord Jesus]

Why do you doubt your brother, Seacore? Perhaps he found hiphop's entrance too apologetic or esurio's joke vote too forced. You have insulted him and now twisted his words. What causes this hatred to burn in your heart?

TLJ's total lack of comment regarding my vote on him is irksome. What do you think of being the first to two votes, TLJ? Am I suspicious for my wagon vote on you?

You must do what you feel is right, of course. The tree will be judged by its fruits.

Are you going to post-restrict yourself to only replying with Scripture? Because that would be kind of awesome.

It would not be in the best interests of the town, so no. I will quote it when appropriate.

[podium123456]

Podium has an avatar.

I also think seacore is making a big semantics argument out of a little thing. Distancing? dunno.

Still waitin' for wicked to weigh in.

TLJ - speaking in the role of a character, in the interest of being clever or funny (while entertaining) can be considered scummy (hiding behind it) or at the very least annoying... IMO. Be real man!

[Seacore]

Sigh

If you don't make somebody take a stance (ie That's scummy, or That's town) and instead allow them to make neutral contributions ("That's interesting") then

a) You're not going to know how they stand
b) They can come back later and claim that they meant whichever one they want.


Also, he wouldn't have even said scummy, or that it was my reaction he was talking about, if I hadn't pushed him.

Lets also not forget that he said "the reactions we've been getting are interesting"

reactions, meaning more than one.

So what else did he learn?

This is not a semantic argument. This is Deer, claiming that he's gaining an insight and not backing it up.

[podium123456]

Well, when i say semantics, i am mostly referring to your criticism of using the word 'interesting'. You appear to be on him because he said your comment was 'both scummy and interesting'. You think the way it was phrased implies that it was scummy, and then there was ...something else... that made it interesting, as well.

I think he just meant it was slightly scummy and, therefore, interesting.

As far as neutral contributions... what's the difference between (when discussing a comment/scenario) saying 'thats interesting' and 'i have a null tell'?

[hiphop]

First time playing a mini game, (and another game at the same time.) Let's see if I can handle it =)
And I'll also try and be a little bit more relaxed, at least while the game is still warming up.

First part i can possibly see as AtE as well as a promise that you will lurk. Right? As for the second part I see as sitting back and lurking, and not giving your input. It just reiterates the first point. Activity helps the town.

vote exilon

not a random vote.

I stand with Seacore on the issue. If deer says something is interesting, i want to know how. How does interesting help the town?

Interesting(as posted by google) Why should we care about that one post? What about it arouses your attention? Are you going to concentrate on that one post or can you pull your eyes away from that post and find scumtells, or others of you consider that one?

I hardly find that post interesting. I posted something like it in my early games, even though it was given. In fact I was even caught as scum because of the principle of that post and that is I know who town is, and I didn't hide it so well. So overeaction, no. Just something that will lead us out of rvs.

[The Lord Jesus]

podium: Thank you for your instruction. I forgive you for your annoyance.

hiphop: You have abandoned reason in assuming Exilon's motives and, in failing to question Seacore's, have shown that the excuse of paranoia is not in your character. Repent.

unvote; vote: hiphop

[Seacore]

Well, when i say semantics, i am mostly referring to your criticism of using the word 'interesting'. You appear to be on him because he said your comment was 'both scummy and interesting'. You think the way it was phrased implies that it was scummy, and then there was ...something else... that made it interesting, as well.

I think he just meant it was slightly scummy and, therefore, interesting.

As far as neutral contributions... what's the difference between (when discussing a comment/scenario) saying 'thats interesting' and 'i have a null tell'?

If he had said "that is scummy and interesting" I would have let it through.

But he said "that is both scummy and interesting"

That's a really strongly constructed statement.

Interesting is a terrible word. It makes it look like you've considered something. Like you are scum hunting and building cases, but it actually means nothing.

The difference between "that's interesting" and "I have a null tell" is that the former implies you've learnt something, the latter says that you haven't.

[Wickedestjr]

Okay, as most people have already figured out, I wasn't serious when I said I knew who the scum were. Nobody seemed like they were trying to get us out of the RVS, so I thought I was going to have to do it myself. The intention was to get people to give their thoughts on the game and to see how people reacted to me saying I knew who the scum were. Nobody gave any thoughts on the game, but I got lots of useful reactions and probably more than I would've gotten if we had continued with RVS. Here are a few things I found interesting:

Wicked

Only a single class of people now who is scum and who isn't at this point of the game.

Scum.

So please, tell us who your buddies are.

What was the point of this comment if you didn't really think I was scum?

wicked is obviously joking.

That's interesting considering in your previous post you said:

So... nobody wants to guess who's scum?

I'm still waiting for you to tell us who the maf are, since you said you knew, and seemed to be anxious for us to ask you who they were.

If it was obvious I was joking, then why did you say you were waiting for me to say who the mafia were?


It also looks like Seacore is trying to avoid taking a stance on anything yet. In post 42 he says he doesn't think I'm scum but he thinks I'm an idiot. And in post 56 he says he doesn't think deer is scum, but unhelpful. And then in post 59 he brings up a point against Deer but still doesn't state his opinion of him, which makes me think he is trying to avoid having to take a stance.

[Wickedestjr]

Another post I don't like from Seacore is this one:

We were in RVS stage, ie, nothing was really happening. Then wicked posted his comment. I ignored it, as did most sensible people. So he attempted to get our attention again.
At this point in time I had three options.

1) Not post (anti-town)
2) Make some vague comment about somebody who double voted Jesus in RVS (who cares? 2 votes isn't a big deal, I often like to do it)
3) Post about the only non-RVS related statement that had been made.

I did so.

He thinks my post was the only non-RVS comment and he also thinks nothing was really happening when I made the comment, yet he chose to ignore the comment on purpose. What is the town motivation for doing this? Did you not want out of the RVS?

Wicked and Deer are both guilty of the same thing.

Whether jokingly or otherwise, they both implied they had gained information but decided to not share it with the rest of us. And that's not okay by me, so I am calling them both on it, as I will call anybody else who does the same.

Why do you have a problem with me jokingly implying that I had figured out who was scum? How could I have given my suspects if the original comment was a joke?

Why do you doubt your brother, Seacore? Perhaps he found hiphop's entrance too apologetic or esurio's joke vote too forced. You have insulted him and now twisted his words. What causes this hatred to burn in your heart?

QFT. It was not like I made the comment during the confirmation stage. Also, TLJ, I don't really understand your hiphop vote. Can you explain in more detail?


I'm not liking how Seacore makes such a big deal out of Deer using the word interesting, yet doesn't even vote or fos him or anything.

My main suspects at the moment are Seacore, podium, and TCC.

[podium123456]

If he had said "that is scummy and interesting" I would have let it through.

But he said "that is both scummy and interesting"

Comon man... reading what you just wrote, you dont consider that arguing semantics?

The difference between "that's interesting" and "I have a null tell" is that the former implies you've learnt something, the latter says that you haven't.

The criticism was concerning providing neutral contributions to the discussion. How is saying 'i have a null tell' not a neutral contribution?

I agree that saying 'gee that's interesting', with no discussion, is pointless. However, he later clarified what he found interesting.

If it was obvious I was joking, then why did you say you were waiting for me to say who the mafia were?

The

very next line

, after what you quoted of me, explains why i was waiting for you to say who the mafia are. Because when you make a joke like that, and then keep talking about it ("knock knock!"... "KNOCK KNOCK"), people will eventually go "who's there?".

The fact that you used that point as a FOS against me, yet didn't notice that the answer to your FOS question followed directly after the comment in question, makes me think you are just skimming through posts looking for any FOS you can quickly throw out without really thinking about it.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wicked - your joke/attempt to get out of RVS didnt raise my suspicion of you... but your actions after are starting to. (my point above, and seacore's point of voting him for the natural reaction to your joke)


Exilon - while i dont think it necessitates a vote at this point, i agree that no one likes to hear someone say 'hey i may have too much to handle, and im going to try to lurk more' in these games.

Deer - Your first 3 posts were kind of scummy... since then nothing too odd... maybe that's just naivety on your part to start off like you did.

TCC - Neutral because you first agree with seacore in post 40, and then in post 52 you accuse him of being antsy. Kind of a flip-flop, but i understand there was more going on there.

Eurospiritus - looks town

Hiphop - looks town

Master tang - playing safe

Seacore - Nothing scummy thus far... just getting the impression that you really like to argu.... erm... 'debate'.


TLJ - You are playing in the character of Jesus, i guess. Ok, fine. With two votes on you, and requests to address that, you ramble off a few ambiguous lines. Ok. Then you place a vote on someone using reasoning that is slightly confusing and ambiguous (IMO) which could be seen as just an OMGUS vote. Ok.

Well, in my opinion, i find posting as a character to be a little too convienient for maf to hide behind OR a little lacking in providing believable information as a townie. Let's see if a third vote elicits a different response, or if you respons with something like "it is thy free will that hath spoken, i shall not judge ye"

<-- but kinda -->

VOTE: The Lord Jesus

[podium123456]

edit: Deer - your first 3 posts (AFTER your first RVS post)

[DoomCow]

Vote: Seacore

He seems a bit overreacting for now.

Besides, I've seen some posts that were quite interesting for now. Not sure town interesting or scum interesting, but nonetheless interesting enough to notice. Might be important later in the game, when we know some allegiances...

[Exilon]

Buah, why do people only start posting when I go to sleep? That is SO not fair. There is SO much to read… =(

Oh God, Seacore xD I lol’d so much; you have a…. interesting way to write xD Pretty blunt and straightforward. And yes, that’s why it’s interesting xD

Chesire, I know you don’t like TCC =D So I'll promise to never call you that, and also because you like Repo, and Master Tang too, and Master Tang has Urahara, and, well... it's awesome, yeah? you ALL have good taste =D

He's probably doping on Zydrate with Amber Sweet. I love that movie.

Oh yes, completely doped - but not with Amber Sweet - Graverobber totally robbed my heart first so he could have the zydrate (lol stupid pun).

So, where should I start? Hum, I guess I’ll go with what was addressed to me first.

Exilon, what makes you think I'm scum? Is your suspicion of me a serious one?

No, it was a RVS vote, and yeah, a kind-of-a joke. You said you knew who scum were, so I reasoned along the lines of "he's scum, so he knows who scum are". Obviously I know you were joking (no, actually, AWWW, now that you admitted it was a joke I'm kind of lost), so I went along with it. The game was / is barely starting so I wanted to take a less serious approach to it and joke more, before it heated up xD (and I tell you, it's refreshing =) . Right now, and with the new information, (and we're out of RVS), I'm going to

Unvote

, as I haven't seen anything else that could be suspicious, at least from you.

Exilon - while i dont think it necessitates a vote at this point, i agree that no one likes to hear someone say 'hey i may have too much to handle, and im going to try to lurk more' in these games

First time playing a mini game, (and another game at the same time.) Let's see if I can handle it =)
And I'll also try and be a little bit more relaxed, at least while the game is still warming up.

First part i can possibly see as AtE as well as a promise that you will lurk. Right? As for the second part I see as sitting back and lurking, and not giving your input. It just reiterates the first point. Activity helps the town. vote exilon not a random vote.

I decided to put these two togheter, since they're addressing the same thing even though the second one was posted before the first.

Hum… WRONG!?
You went and fetched a definition for interesting. Did you also check the definition of relaxed? Or promise, for that matter?
Better yet, did you see the word “lurk” anywhere on my sentence?
I didn’t say anything in the lines of “I’m going to lurk”. There is nothing of the sort there…!
I’m angry right now. Let me sort my feelings a little bit. I don’t like when people twist stuff around, and use it as it as if it was right (addressing it as a promise? Really?), totally believing they are certain.

No, it’s not a promise that I will lurk. No, no it’s not AtE. It’s me stating a fact and hoping that I’ll be able to cope with both games. At most, it’s a promise of trying to handle both games, not the opposite.
Second part. How do you translate “I’ll try to be a little more relaxed (and you left this part untouched on your post, not even mentioning it), at least while the game is still warming up” to “I’m not going to give input”?
Here, let me help you then. Here’s the definition of RELAXED:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/relaxed

When I said relaxed, I meant that I would be more at ease, try to joke a little more, and not be so serious in everything I wrote (serious as in stern-faced; apprehensive, not the other definition of it), because too much tension and stress hurts my bones and mind. And as you can probably see, there’s nothing in that definition that suggests laziness – they are different terms, referring to different things.

And to promise something is to say “whatever happens, I will do this”. At no point in that sentence I stated that I wouldn’t be contributing despite anything (and THAT WOULD BE A PROMISE), or anything that could be interpreted as such.

'hey i may have too much to handle, and im going to try to lurk more' in these games’

“First time playing a mini game, (and another game at the same time.) Let's see if I can handle it =)
And I'll also try and be a little bit more relaxed, at least while the game is still warming up.”

Now, Podium, compare those two sentences, having in mind what I have just said.
No one would say “I’ll also try to be a little bit more relaxed while THIS GAME is still warming up” reflects the same idea as “and im going to try to lurk more in THESE GAMES” (and does one try to lurk? How do you even do that?).
Podium, you practically misquoted me, and you didn’t care to check what I actually said. The sentence you constructed also seems a little sloppy, which hints to the fact that you weren’t paying much attention to it.
Hiphop, you misunderstood me, and didn’t even really care to see what I had to say before casting your vote.
I don’t like that, not even one bit.

FoS and MFoDD (Major finger of dislike and disappointment (see this is me being relaxed/ light-hearted, coining a new term -.-‘ )): hiphop

FOS and MFoDD: Podium

As for the rest:
The discussion that started with Wicked and then Deer / Seacore, is, to me, justified.
A little bad choice of words on Deer's part, and Seacore just did what he had to do to get it cleared up. I don't think there's anything wrong with that - he found something wrong in a post, he asked about it as many times as needed to get it straight. Some people might find that a little suspicious, boring, or even stupid, but the fact is that he did what he had to do. And that, right there, is also exposure, which saeacore shows no fear in having (so far). They are posts people can analyze, and which they probably will; so I don't have any real issue with it.

Tomorrow I will have more time and therefore be able to catch up a little more with the ongoings (and also take some much-needed notes). I wasn't expecting the game to suddenly get two pages in a night, but I guess that's good =)

[GreenDude]

I nearly forgot this game. Not good.
I think I remember hiphop from one game. He was scum back then I think. Or maybe he wasn't. I can't remember.

There is a lot of discussion happening. I really need to read through this.

[Master Tang]

He's probably doping on Zydrate with Amber Sweet. I love that movie.

“I’m going to lurk”.

I knew he was a lurker. JK jk just an attempt at humor or AaH.

You can call me whatever you want Exilon. It's not an insulting nickname so I could care less.

[Seacore]

Fine I'll drop the 'semantic' argument. It's useless now anyway, even if I have caught him up, enough of you have said it's just a semantic difference that he can just agree anyway.

Although I'll still clarify that "interesting" implies you have information
"null tell" shares with all of us that you have nothing.

@Wicked. Just because I disagree with you, doesn't make you scummy. But I'm agreeing with Podium, some of your actions since have been scummy. I couldn't have worded it better than his knock knock comparison.

I think Ex has made a very strong town post there.
I'd like to see this promised post by Green,

But I'm going to

Unvote

Vote TLJ

He's clearly been around and has added little that people haven't said before. He's hiding a little behind his 'character' although I will grant that he has promised he won't do that 100%

I think it's time a significant bandwagon got started and I feel he's a decent candidate.

[podium123456]

Buah, why do people only start posting when I go to sleep? That is SO not fair. There is SO much to read… =(

...

Hum… WRONG!?
You went and fetched a definition for interesting. Did you also check the definition of relaxed? Or promise, for that matter?
Better yet, did you see the word “lurk” anywhere on my sentence?

...

Sheesh exilon, i was just paraphrasing what it came across like to me.

All you had to do was explain what you meant. No worries, i see what you meant now.

[Master Tang]

I choose to

UNVOTE: DEER

and to

Vote: TLJ

.

I mostly voted for Deer as a random pick. Currently TJL seems to be most likely to be scum because of his actions.
I believe him acting unusually Just and United with the town is just to lull us into a false sense of security.
I also believe that his voting for Hip-Hop wasn't 100% logical and it seemed he was trying to lead people onto voting for Hip-Hop. His vote for Hip-Hop, who currently only had one vote (Seacore), would not make it seem like he was "hopping on the bandwagon", but it would allow him to draw attention to someone who already had a vote and I think he hoped that others would jump on what he said:

hiphop: You have abandoned reason in assuming Exilon's motives and, in failing to question Seacore's, have shown that the excuse of paranoia is not in your character. Repent.

unvote; vote: hiphop

which is pointing a figure of suspicion at Hip-Hop. From this I hypothesize that he thought his plan would succeed and hopefully lead to the lynching of Hip-Hop, but it backfired. As a note I think he is keeping his posting a minimum to avoid obvious Scumtells like "lurking".

Also Seacore what do you think TLJ is hiding?

[Deer]

oh.

unvote

we're out of RVS. Let me read over this discussion and see what I make of the TLJ wagon.

[The Lord Jesus]

Wick: Yes, I will explain in more detail. Exilon had made no promise to lurk. Hiphop assumed that meaning when there were clearly other, more reasonable explanations for what Exilon had said. Were hiphop one of the righteous, what could have caused him to make this unreasonable assumption? Paranoia. And yet he felt secure in agreeing with and idolizing Seacore, showing that he is not paranoid by nature... and therefore not of the town. Do you understand me now, brother?

podium: I have not been ambiguous. If you have hardened your heart against the Word and so cannot hear it, you need only pray for understanding as Wick has done. Of the random votes, I spoke plainly. They are only the seeds of a bandwagon. That tree will be judged by its fruits. For if I am hung up and sacrificed with those random votes still cast against me, what will the righteous think of them? Of your vote, I say this: I sense that it flows from your personal distaste, rather than from any notion you have of my alignment. The Christians who have harmed you are not of me; they have never known me.

Seacore: I know you and your ways. The hatred in your heart consumes you, but my fire burns brighter. I have hidden nothing, nor will I. Nor have I plagiarized my brothers.

Tang: I see what you are doing and it is righteous, but take care to heed the sixth commandment, lest you be mistaken for one of Pilot's men when I am hung up on Cavalry.

All: Hiphop is not the only one among you who have already broken my Father's commandments. Yet some of you are innocent, like children, so I will share His law with you, that you may act in righteousness...

1. Thou shalt have no motivations before the town's.
2. Thou shalt not make, of the unconfirmed, an idol.
3. Thou shalt not make thy roleclaim in vain.
4. Remember the game and keep it active.
5. Honor your reads and perspective.
6. Thou shalt not bandwagon.
7. Thou shalt not commit WIFOM.
8. Thou shalt not plagiarize.
9. Though shalt not bear false witness.
10. Though shalt not covet thy neighbor's role.

[esuriospiritus]

Seacore is pushing a semantics case on Deer a little too hard, methinks. Not scummy, per se, just worth noting as it could be an early distancing attempt.

I also think seacore is making a big semantics argument out of a little thing. Distancing? dunno.

Way to totally repeat what I said.

Hiphop's 83 seems like he's trying too hard to put a non-random vote on someone. Too early to be scummy though, imo. Null for now.

Seacore's 85 makes sense to me, even though I still think he's blown things out of proportion a little.

podium's 88 raises a couple red flags for me.

Eurospiritus - looks town

Hiphop - looks town

What? I've hardly said a word, and neither has he. I certainly don't have a read on hiphop at this time, and if I were not me I certainly wouldn't have a read on me when I've posted all of like three times prior to this post, and one was a random vote and another consisted of one word. I am suspicious of people who claim to think I'm town without adequate reasoning for it, because it's a great scum strategy to make a town buddy or two and try to connect yourselves to them as much as possible to drag them down with you.

He also parrots hiphop's misrep of exilon, which I actually find to be more suspicious than hiphop's original misrep. It's much less risky for someone to jump on something small if someone else has already done so.

I think the above few things are enough for me to

Unvote; Vote: Podium

MT kind of active lurked for a while and all of a sudden jumps on the TLJ wagon.

Currently TJL seems to be most likely to be scum because of his actions.
I believe him acting unusually Just and United with the town is just to lull us into a false sense of security.

Which actions? How so? Elaborate, because right now your vote simply does not have enough reasoning behind it.

FOS: Master Tang

side note/Public Service Announcement: People who keep saying "The RVS is over now" etc need to read this thread, with special attention to posts 5-8. The term "stage" is misleading in that there is not really a particular moment where the RVS is over, and that time may not be the same for everyone. It is a transitory period and should be treated as such. Also nothing in RVS is completely random, since people will still do things that work toward their wincons from the moment they have their role PM (scum are more likely to try to prolong the RVS, put off taking stances, excuse early actions as "but it was in the RVS, so I don't need a reason", etc.)

This is not an excuse to stay in RVS-mode, mind. Quite to the contrary -- it should have been srs bsns time a while ago for the lot of ye.


Till tomorrow, yo.