Open 219: Neighborhood Watch (Game Over)

[Empking]

Vote Count

guy0 (3) - Empking, Beloved Princess, ConfidAnon
Pomegranate (3) - Sleepless Assassin, don_johnson, Primate
Primate (1) - Chronopie
Sleepless Assassin (1) - OpposedForce
OpposedForce (1) - Thief

Not Voting (2) - guy0, Pomegranate

With

11

players alive, it takes

6

votes to lynch.

Pomegranate

is V/LA until Thursday.

The deadline for Day 1 is

Monday, May 31, 2010 at 8:00:00 PM CDT

.
If no player is lynched by that time, a no lynch will occur.

FoS: SA

The fact that you seem convinced Guy0, Primate and Pom are the scum, yet you unvote Primate in order to vote Pom who had no votes on her seems very weird. Especially because Pom was V/LA.

BP: How many games have you played?

[OpposedForce]

K

Don't like the Pomegranate votes

K

Do you still like your BP vote? Why?

To answer your question and your previous suspicion (if you like to call it that) I voted BP mainly because she/he has not contirubuted much into conversation while contiuning to actively lurk.

So yes, I felt satisified with my vote on BP.

[don_johnson]

competing bandwagons are good for town. the silence at L-3 is a good sign.

SA: my statement was in regards to seeing how pom/guy0 feel about each other.

[guy0]

So 20 hours of no responses is considered silence now?

In terms of what I think about pom. I don't like her for the same reason I was concerned with you earlier which was regarding to her proposal on what to do with the hider. I think that her idea was terrible since it easily gave the scum a 2 for 1.

So of all people at the moment I have the most problems with her since you (DJ) seem to have explained yourself well, and no one else has given me too much reason to suspect them, aside from maybe BP, since he/she has still said nothing of substance.

[Primate]

Sleepless Assassin has done a couple of things so far that I'd call slight scum tells, but honestly I'm getting a pro-town vibe on that one. My one caveat here is that this is because of logical points in reasonable depth being a town tell, and there's nothing in his posts so far that a good player couldn't rattle off without too much of a challenge. See how his quality (and obviously the rest of his posting) holds up.

@Empking: With your vote on Guy and you fossing SA who just strongly attacked Guy, is the implication there that you believe that these two people are both scum?

@Guy: What's your opinion on Confidanon?

I don't think silence at -3 or competing bandwagons this early are good things.

[don_johnson]

So 20 hours of no responses is considered silence now?

not just now. i am pretty sure "no responses" is always going to be defined as "silence". do you enjoy arguing semantics?

I don't think silence at -3 or competing bandwagons this early are good things.

why not?

[Sleepless Assassin]

You accuse Pomegranate of "jumping all over" the power role strategy when other people had showed support for it previously then said statement. What's different from other support posts?

It just stood out when I saw it.

Secondly he already explained why he didn't want to vote Primate, the bandwagon was too large.

Too large, meaning? It looks to me like she wanted to bandwagon, but didn't want everyone to see her as scummy for jumping on the bandwagon, so she makes the cautious play by mentioning suspicion, but not voting Primate.

Also why so brash in trying to get someone to vote on a bandwagon? Enthusiastic to quick lynch while at the same time accusing a player of being scum for not voting on it.

Unvote: Beloved Princess
Vote: Sleepless Assassin

Huh?

I wasn't trying to get her to vote. I was asking why she didn't. She said she was suspicious of Primate, but the bandwagon was too large at, what? Three people?

And if I wanted to quicklynch Primate, wouldn't I still be voting him?

The fact that you seem convinced Guy0, Primate and Pom are the scum, yet you unvote Primate in order to vote Pom who had no votes on her seems very weird. Especially because Pom was V/LA.

I'm happier with a vote on Pom than Primate right now. More sure that she's scum than I am on Primate. I don't care about V/LA. She'll be back to answer even if it's not immediately.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Guy, why aren't you voting anyone?

[Primate]

Right, that doesn't tally up with what I thought you were doing SA. Why are you suspicious of me then?

[Primate]

why not?

Silence means not as many posts to analyse. Competing wagons make for slower games without the big single topic for everyone to debate about, and whilst they debatedly give more info I think the speed is more of an asset.

That said, though, it'd be more disruptive to place artificial constraints on any game, so it's not really something we should try an acheive as a set of players regardless.

2c

That said, I'm not sure why you consider the silence a good thing over activity, mind if I ask you why that is?

[guy0]

@ DJ

all i'm saying is that it hasn't been very long since 2 of my posts ago, meaning that it is perfectly reasonable for me to have just checked MS when i made my last post, and that there was no silence on my part.

@ SA

Why I haven't voted is a good question. I want to wait until pom gets back (should be today no?) and hear what she has to say about all of this before I vote her. I don't want to have to constantly change my vote around when she comes back so i'll just wait that extra day. If I really needed to vote someone right now, I would vote primate, but, once again, i'll wait until pom returns since I can't vote her until I hear when she has to say.

@ primate

Confidanon has only made 2 posts that weren't about me, one asking why Theif is good with DJ, and one being a random vote. So I'd like to hear what he thinks about the Pom Primate SA thing.

[Empking]

Primate: Not really but I don't think them being scum together is impossible.

[Primate]

What are your reasons for your vote on Guy, Emp?

[ConfidAnon]

Leaning town on D_J

Any particular reason for this?

Thief, you ignored this. Why?

I really don't see anything worth voting Pomegranate over at this point. I can see the reasoning behind the vote, but being persuaded by an argument isn't scummy.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Right, that doesn't tally up with what I thought you were doing SA. Why are you suspicious of me then?

I actually can't remember. Something caught my attention, but I can't find it on reread, so it couldn't have been anything too bad.

[Pomegranate]

Skimmed through, catchup post today or tomorrow. I have to say that the case on me is extremely week, and I really don't like the way that Primate jumped on it.

[don_johnson]

That said, I'm not sure why you consider the silence a good thing over activity, mind if I ask you why that is?

i think we are speaking on tangent planes. silence itself is not "good", but in my experience scum will often respond to pressure with avoidance. hence, the fact that two players were ignoring the pressure raises the odds that at least one of them is scum. however, i was unaware of pom's v/la, and as guy has used in his defense, time is relative. so we'll have to see.

Competing wagons make for slower games without the big single topic for everyone to debate about, and whilst they debatedly give more info I think the speed is more of an asset.

with this i wholeheartedly disagree i think competing wagons are good, and i think speed is a detriment. now, there does come a time when a day can be "too long", but we're on page four so i don't see a problem with the game being slowed. tbh, i don't even agree that competing wagons "slow" the game. but now we're talking theory and semantics. in any case. i think we disagree, but i don't think its relevant.

[guy0]

I couldn't agree more with DJ about competing wagons. Now that pom is back, we should hear from primate about pom and pom about primate etc etc.

If there were just one wagon, then the discussions would be focused on attacking / defending one person or deciding whether or not that single person is scum or not. The advantage to having two wagons, or, at least more than one suspicious person, is that we are able to hear discussions amongst the suspicious people, which allows for more scumtells from said people.

[Primate]

i think we disagree, but i don't think its relevant.

Yeah, I'll GD it after the game.

[Empking]

What are your reasons for your vote on Guy, Emp?

Gut. His actions seem concerned with appearances too much.

[Thief]

Thief, you ignored this. Why?

I don't feel it is necessary to put my town tells out in public. Just helps scum adapt their game.

Guy you said you want to hear from Pom but besides her you would vote Primate. I looked in your ISO and I see no reason for you to be suspicious of Primate.

Guy's latest post is also game-theory fluffiness.

Unvote:
Vote: guy0

Yeah this is going down.

[Plum]

Don't mess with Thief.

I know who you are, but you don't know who I am. Yet I still feel the love.

Hmm... I need a particularly vague line for my response... any suggestions?

--

Agree. It's definitely best if we know the hider's target. We can confirm townies and scum. It's worth it in this setup, when we know that there's a hider. I've been Hider before, and this makes sense.

I think I'd vote Primate if he wasn't the largest BW at this point. Maybe soon.

Unvote, Vote Pomegranate

First of all, love how you jump all over the idea of giving up our power role like that.

Second, why not vote Primate? Afraid of looking like a scummy wagoner? Massive scum tell right here.

Well, I thought about it. But I didn't think of everything. That's why I changed my opinion when I saw good arguments to the contrary. Having a Duh Moment here.

And what is this, a lose-lose, scenario? If I jump on the wagon, well Pom just joined the biggest wagon. If I consider jumping but don't, well then Pom isn't voting someone she finds scummy. Damned if I do, damned if I don't.

Seeing these arguments, I'm swayed. Sorry dj.

lol that's because people are arguing against it and you don't want to look scummy.

Yeah, I didn't think of all the possible happenings in case of a hider claim, but when they were pointed out, I changed my mind. Whoa.

Oh, and we definitely don't hypoclaim. Because if someone claims to have hidden behind mafia, they know that that player isn't the real hider. Same if someone claims to have hidden behind a NK target that say, didn't go through. Scum use PoE and quickly narrow down the possible hiders.

--

Dj's wagon jump without anything but

i approve of post 66

is noted. Same with Primate's jump, without

anything

.

Vote: Primate

.

--

Don't like the Pomegranate votes.

Why?

Because the bandwagon is crap.

Exactly.

--

Secondly he already explained why he didn't want to vote Primate, the bandwagon was too large.

Too large, meaning? It looks to me like she wanted to bandwagon, but didn't want everyone to see her as scummy for jumping on the bandwagon, so she makes the cautious play by mentioning suspicion, but not voting Primate.

Except that I didn't want a BW. I didn't want Primate to get to L-1 then claim on likr, the third page of the game or something. So I held off.

--

Hand of Suspicion: Sleepless Assassin.

No, it's not OMGUS. He's trying to push a wagon that is built off of straw, if that.

[Pomegranate]

That was me. Stupid computer.

[ConfidAnon]

I don't feel it is necessary to put my town tells out in public. Just helps scum adapt their game.

I don't like this, but it's not a glaring thing. Kind of feels like an excuse to throw out town reads for no reason as scum, but not a big issue on its own.

Unvote: guy0
Vote: Sleepless Assassin (L-4)

[Gayle]

Posting for next page vote count