Open 218: Two-fold C9 - Game Over

[Beefster]

XScorpion (1) Chronopie
inHimshallibe (3) Elscouta, Mr.Sandman, Beefster
Chronopie (2) Toon Fighter, ODDin
easjo682 (3) Scott Brosius, XScorpion, Mr. Chaos
Toon Fighter (1) Slepz
ODDin (1) inHimshallibe
(No vote) easjo682
12 alive; 7 votes lynch.

As far as I'm concerned, RVS ended on page 2.
I find RQS is only useful when scum are sloppy, i.e. a scum says something later in the game that contradicts one of their RQS answers.

On the other hand, not answering RQs in the first place can look scummy because it obscures personal meta. It still isn't a valid reason by itself, however.

1. How long have you been playing Mafia? (inside and outside MS)
2. How would you describe your meta?
3. What's your win/loss record?
4. Favorite setup?
5. What do you think is the biggest scum tell?
6. How do you make your decisions?

1. Online mafia just here. I've played quite a bit of IRC mafia, and have played IRL mafia for years.
2. I don't really have valid meta yet. I only have scum meta. I know that I dislike being mysterious unless I'm using pressure votes.
3. see sig
4. I dunno yet. I have played some interestingly flavored IRL mafia, though.
5. contradictions, probably. (which are vastly different from perspective changes)
6. I think about it, I sleep on it, and sometimes I pray about it. Depends.

[easjo682]

As far as I'm concerned, RVS ended on page 2.
I find RQS is only useful when scum are sloppy, i.e. a scum says something later in the game that contradicts one of their RQS answers.

@Easjo: There is nothing more annoying than asking someone a question, hoping for a serious answer, then getting a joke response. "Voices in your head" do not help town. Can you give real answers to

What do you think about Oddin's vote?

and

eas: why do you "feel the need to change your vote"? Also, what's the idea of switching from one random vote to another random vote?

I already answered you and yes it was around the times of my posts of voices in my head that we can out of RVS, so I hardly see the problem with it seeing as I was right on the boarder of posting in what you have decided is RVS.
The answer for Oddins votes is no I'm not particularly worried about it because people can and do change their minds.
as for the 'feel the need' to change my vote as I said it

was

in RVS. Am I not allowed to make one joke at the start of the game?

Easjo:
Voices in your head? Pfft! I hardly think that's valid just outside the RVS.
Self-contradiction. The need to lie is a scum trait, and you suck at lying. Razz
FoS: easjo

yes, see you view on when RVS ended, and my view of when RVS differ, I think it ended slightly later, although the when RVS ends is debatable in all games and therefore I don't see why people are taking such great issue with my obviously joke 'voices in my head' post.

1. How long have you been playing Mafia? (inside and outside MS)
2. How would you describe your meta?
3. What's your win/loss record?
4. Favorite setup?
5. What do you think is the biggest scum tell?
6. How do you make your decisions?

1. as long as I've been on mafiascum
2. I don't really know, I couldn't really describe anyones meta
3. I don't know
4. any so far I haven't really found one that stands out.
5. fake cop claim where you give a guilty verdict on a townie, the town just lynches you the next day if they're not in Lylo
6. what seems right

[XScorpion]

That still doesn't explain why you contradicted yourself.

[Beefster]

In general, the RVS ends when the first non-random vote comes out. That was on one of ODDin's first posts.

@XScorpion: I dunno if that lends itself to a personal explanation if that's what you want...
It's an interesting reaction really. Scum likes to hide information, and that's what easjo seems to be doing.

It may have made more sense if easjo used

but

rather than

and

in the first place. But it still doesn't make sense...
What would he have to gain by saying his statement on the need to change votes and no reason?

[XScorpion]

Well, "I'm scum" is a good explanation for contradicting yourself

Hey Easjo, who is scum?

[Mr.Sandman]

Sorry should've anticipated this but V/LA till Monday

[Elscouta]

@Beefster :
* Could you sum up your case on easjo? After a reread, I still don't understand.
* What do you think of inHim?

[Mr. Chaos]

@Beefster :
* Could you sum up your case on easjo? After a reread, I still don't understand.
* What do you think of inHim?

Sorry questions hijacked

1. easjo gave two bs responses to questions XS asked on p.3. Since then he's been saying it was a joke, but says he already answered the questions.

2. Neutral atm.

[Beefster]

[joke]YOU JERK! You sure live up to your username. [/joke]

@Beefster :
* Could you sum up your case on easjo? After a reread, I still don't understand.

It starts with the "voices in my head" gag just after the RVS. He's trying to prolong it.
He's lying/contradicting himself.
I think there's a good chance that he's scum.

* What do you think of inHim?

Didn't I already discuss this?...
For clarification, I think he's playing village idiot, and that he's scum.

[easjo682]

How am I contradicting myself? (by the way I'm a she not a he}

[easjo682]

How am I contradicting myself? (by the way I'm a she not a he}

[Beefster]

Ah. Never mind. Someone misquoted you, so I thought it was on the same post.
(it was on the need to change votes->no reason to change votes.)

You still appear to prolong the RVS, along with inHim. Surprisingly enough, the RVS ended on page 2, on ODDin's vote.

[Beefster]

I see a need to change my vote,

also no real reason for switching my vote.

Self-contradiction is a scumtell.

Misquoting is also a scumtell. There was time between those 2 posts. You're taking things out of context. I see scum motives behind this.

FoS: XScorpion

[XScorpion]

Either easjo had a reason to change her vote, or she didn't. In her first quote, she claims she had a "need to change" it, i.e. a reason. In her second, she claimed that there was no reason. These are mutually exclusive conditions.

[Elscouta]

There's too much debate around easjo and not enough votes on inHim.

Also :

Beefster seems extremely reluctant to vote inHim.
I feel XScorpion is overinterpreting the whole easjo issue.

[easjo682]

Xscorpion, if you read the rest of that post, here it is for your convience

I see a need to change my vote,

vote: inhim
because he's been on this site the longest out of anyone else playing the game (I just lost the game) and is therefore is automatically more scummy, that and he came up with a reason to switch his vote in RVS which as we all know is the single most scummy thing ever

you would realize that it is not meant to be a serious vote.
for one I intentionally did exactly what I was accusing Oddin of
for two I didn't see at the time Oddins vote (which was only at post 33 mine at 37) was dead serious, I was of the opinion that he was still RVSing.

[Slepz]

Vacation until tuesday. Sorry guys...

[inHimshallibe]

I'm playing VI? Good lord, this is getting out of hand.

I'll get back to this after some work.

[Mr.Sandman]

Alright, this is silly, and I won't continue this muddying of the waters. I won't drop my vote, though, because such an attack on my vote of ODDin is intriguing given the setup.

...because if what I said was the case, then I could've understood what you were getting at...

In response to said questions:

1. How long have you been playing Mafia? (inside and outside MS)
2. How would you describe your meta?
3. What's your win/loss record?
4. Favorite setup?
5. What do you think is the biggest scum tell?
6. How do you make your decisions?

1. Played about 4 years ago on another forum, had a break then came here. Never played IRL
2. Don't know how to describe it. Chrono's seen it as scum, he could probably describe that better than me
3. W2/L1
4. Humungus themed games
5. Weak pushes
6. I ask my mum

@Beefster :
* Could you sum up your case on easjo? After a reread, I still don't understand.
* What do you think of inHim?

Sorry questions hijacked

1. easjo gave two bs responses to questions XS asked on p.3. Since then he's been saying it was a joke, but says he already answered the questions.

2. Neutral atm.

WHy are you answering someone elses questions? What is it about the questions that you saw the need to jump in and respond to them?

Beefster's introduction of RQS at a point when it was barely needed looks like an attempt to come across as pro-town. I don't see what was to be gained by the RQS. The only thing it seems to have achieved is that beefster picked up on the fact that we should look out for chrono because chrono admits to having anti-town meta. Interesting that chrono should say such a thing because it could be an implicit attempt to defend whatever his style he may be seen to be using in this game. On the other hand, it may not. Just because he said that, doesn't mean we need to look out for him. I don't think we gained anything from the RQS.

]* What do you think of inHim?

Didn't I already discuss this?...
For clarification, I think he's playing village idiot, and that he's scum.

Village idiot and scum? Both at the same time? I think that is a highly unlikely scum strategy and a misguided accusation to make so early in the game.

Ah. Never mind. Someone misquoted you, so I thought it was on the same post.
(it was on the need to change votes->no reason to change votes.)

You still appear to prolong the RVS, along with inHim. Surprisingly enough, the RVS ended on page 2, on ODDin's vote.

You accuse inHim and easjo of prolonging the RVS. You were the one that decided to follow up the RVS with RQS.

FoS: Beefster

Your play is full of contradiction.

[XScorpion]

Xscorpion, if you read the rest of that post, here it is for your convience

I see a need to change my vote,

vote: inhim
because he's been on this site the longest out of anyone else playing the game (I just lost the game) and is therefore is automatically more scummy, that and he came up with a reason to switch his vote in RVS which as we all know is the single most scummy thing ever

you would realize that it is not meant to be a serious vote.
for one I intentionally did exactly what I was accusing Oddin of
for two I didn't see at the time Oddins vote (which was only at post 33 mine at 37) was dead serious, I was of the opinion that he was still RVSing.

Whether it was serious or not is irrelevant, you still changed your vote, and I don't think it's a coincidence that you posted right after inHim's non random vote. I definitely don't buy that you changed your vote for "no reason," or that you would fail to read the whole thread before you voted.

There's too much debate around easjo and not enough votes on inHim.

Also :

Beefster seems extremely reluctant to vote inHim.
I feel XScorpion is overinterpreting the whole easjo issue.

Beefster is already voting for inhim...

[Beefster]

@Sandman: What's so unlikely about VI and scum? It seems pretty viable to look like you have no idea what you're talking about and be scum. Maybe I just used the wrong term. I'm suspicious with the way InHim been responding to questions as well- it's definitely not my only reason. I just thought that was a good way to summarize/clarify an earlier post. *shrugs*

As for the late RQS, I didn't really think of it earlier. The RVS ended really quickly, and I didn't really catch that until I looked in hindsight.

@Elscouta: I'm not so sure about your last post. It makes me wonder if you've been reading the topic if you missed the fact that I already have a vote on InHim...
Mainly, it's your attempt to redirect the votes to inHim that worries me. You posted no reasoning behind it.
There is the possibility that you both are scum, but you are probably in different factions. There may be a link with you and easjo.

FoS: Elscouta

[Beefster]

EBWOP for clarity:

There is the possibility that Elscouta and inHim are both scum, but they are probably in different factions. There may be a link between Elscouta and easjo.

[easjo682]

I definitely don't buy that you changed your vote for "no reason," or that you would fail to read the whole thread before you voted.

I thought RVS was still on, I didn't realize the serious votes were serious, thats what it boils down to.

As I believe Mr. sandman pointed out, you have a problem with my RVS (even though it was only a couple hours later )after you decided RVS was over, yet find not problem with beefster who made his RQS post well after you decided RVS was over and after talk had started over my post.

[Mr. Chaos]

WHy are you answering someone elses questions? What is it about the questions that you saw the need to jump in and respond to them?

I felt like answering them.

Beefster's introduction of RQS at a point when it was barely needed looks like an attempt to come across as pro-town. I don't see what was to be gained by the RQS. The only thing it seems to have achieved is that beefster picked up on the fact that we should look out for chrono because chrono admits to having anti-town meta. Interesting that chrono should say such a thing because it could be an implicit attempt to defend whatever his style he may be seen to be using in this game. On the other hand, it may not. Just because he said that, doesn't mean we need to look out for him. I don't think we gained anything from the RQS.

I noticed a couple of people who haven't contributed as heavily (ie: not at all) who showed up to post their RQS before promptly dissipating into the mist. I really don't like that.

[ODDin]

Hmm, not much new going on.
I think I'll reread the thread later on (not much work, luckily) and see if I come up with anything.

Meanwhile, I really think scorp is trying way too hard with eas. Yeah, she first said she sees a need to change her vote and then said there was no reason to it. She also said that the "need" to change her vote was told to her by the voices in her head, and she admitted that both votes were random.
All I see is a player joking around. There may be something to be said about prolonging the RVS (although I wouldn't call it that either. The end of the RVS isn't clear cut, and I saw jokes blend with serious posts on the fine border of the RVS-end in other games already). But self-contradiction is really pushing it.