Newbie 1020 - Mafia Mania [Game Over]

For Newbie Games, which have a set format and experienced moderators. Archived during the 2023 queue overhaul.
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Post Post #75 (ISO) » Wed Oct 06, 2010 3:30 pm

Post by Textbook »

Hi, Vas! I admit I was saddened for a bit there, what with you not asking me a question back in Post #67, but it's good to see you've come 'round.

As far as your question, my money's on the Moose. There's not much to go on, so this is nearly all conjecture based on what's already been said: Yet, the whole thing about L3MON being taken to L-1 was indeed surprising, but I think it's being scrutinized only because there's not much else. As you've said, it's a fine way to put the pressure on someone and get them talking, but the fact is, that
everyone
who voted L3MON had a stake in it. We can say that it started from a Random vote by Blackcloak that was mostly forgotten with the emergence of everyone else voting. Then Incognito comes with with his 'serious' vote and causes everyone to question its legitimacy. Throw in a playful line and you've got three votes on a single player. The wagon builds with your vote and suddenly it's L-1. I want to say that the force behind the L-1 status was Blackcloak's initial RV, as the wagon was built by three players who didn't see that there was someone else already on it. I chose the Moose because he was right in the position to vote and be considered mostly non-responsible for the outcome.

In a similar vein you've got my wagon. I've got the same amount of votes as the other 'leaders' so I don't feel all that threatened. However, what is troublesome is what caused the wagon to be built. Indeed, language plays a large part in finding tells and digging for information. Information that was perhaps, unintentionally offered by the player, but nonetheless present. All that aside, I can't say I enjoyed being picked apart for word choice. It's a strange feeling to have after Incognito's tireless efforts proved that I was talking out of the other side of my mouth. I admit, it was something I've never had to take responsibility for, in the past.

Nevertheless, I can appreciate why it came about, as the aforementioned information would prove invaluable to the efforts of the town.

(It's funny. I must have changed at least five words in this post because of the altercations that could have come about, otherwise.)
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Post Post #76 (ISO) » Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:48 pm

Post by kunkstar7 »

:: VoteCount 1x3 ::


ilikemusicdoyou (0) -
xo L3MON ox (2) -
Blackcloak, moose200x

Powerrox93 (0) -
Textbook (2) -
Incognito, VasudeVa

Vinicius Chaim (0) -
Blackcloak (1) -
, xo L3M0N ox

VasudeVa (2) -
Textbook, ilikemusicdoyou

moose200x (0) -
Incognito (0) -

Not Voting (2) -
Vinicius Chaim, Powerrox93


With 9 Alive, it takes 5 to lynch.


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Post Post #77 (ISO) » Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:27 pm

Post by Incognito »

Post 73, VasudeVa wrote:It's either you have another means of talking outside of the thread (You know, the scum QT.), or this is an awkwardly worded declaration.

Have you ever scum slipped before? If yes, tell me about it.
I meant exactly what I said there. "We", meaning every player in the game, shouldn't discuss that any more in the topic. Obviously two of "us" are Mafia and probably will or have already discussed the potential set-up during pre-game if the scum even got a chance to talk.
Post 73, VasudeVa wrote:I like the Textbook wagon because I like competing wagons. L3mon wagon vs. Textbook wagon seems like a good spot. (Although, we are in dire need of L3mon votes, to make it a legit wagon competition. Yeee-haw.)
Fair enough, though with 2 votes apiece, I wouldn't really consider these competing wagons just yet.

-~-~-~

In response to Textbook's latest post, I don't really see moose as scummy at this time or at least not for those reasons. I thought his willingness to wagon was kinda townish actually. Him not removing his vote when he saw it reached L-1 could be a slight tell, but I'm not seeing him as scum right now.
[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
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If you see Patrick drinking dish water, please try and stop him. Friends don't let friends drink dish water.[/color][/ooc]
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Post Post #78 (ISO) » Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:37 pm

Post by Incognito »

Actually, Textbook, why aren't you voting moose?
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patrickgower2006 (8:12:07 PM): like dish water
If you see Patrick drinking dish water, please try and stop him. Friends don't let friends drink dish water.[/color][/ooc]
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Post Post #79 (ISO) » Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:28 pm

Post by Powerrox93 »

@Incognito: Because when I was balancing my thoughts between "Is that bad play or new player-play", I lean for the latest.
@VasudeVa: I know that's possible to. In fact, I was scum on my first Mafia game on MTG Salvation.
Hoping to make a comeback to mafia soon...

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Post Post #80 (ISO) » Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:55 pm

Post by Textbook »

Incognito wrote:Actually, Textbook, why aren't you voting moose?
...because I like it where it is.
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Post Post #81 (ISO) » Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:20 pm

Post by ilikemusicdoyou »

Incognito wrote: @ilikemusicdoyou: You've basically posted twice now - once to joke vote and the second time to respond to a question. Do you have any thoughts about what's been going on so far?
Answering this and a couple of other posts about my thoughts.
I've been a little busy, but have been lurking, as to keep up with the game.
I think the near hammer was crazy, but from what i can tell from other games an the lovely mafia wiki, its not that strange in a newb game. At least it didn't happen and we all have a little more time to discuss.

My vote was a joke, sure so lets get this out of the way

UNVOTE VasudeVa


Currently, my eyes are drawn to Incognito. For this reason
Incognito wrote:It means I saw something interesting. I'd rather not reveal what that is at this time - let's see how squirmy ze l3mon gets when he or she gets here.
Your keeping your hand close to your chest, i can't get a hold of you.

So thus,
VOTE Incognito


The vote will stay until you explain your self

until
Incognito wrote: All will be revealed in due time.
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Post Post #82 (ISO) » Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:54 am

Post by Incognito »

ilikemusicdoyou, I already explained my logic in this post. Did you miss that?
Post 80, Textbook wrote:...because I like it where it is.
So I'm correct to assume that you currently find Vas scummier than moose?
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If you see Patrick drinking dish water, please try and stop him. Friends don't let friends drink dish water.[/color][/ooc]
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Post Post #83 (ISO) » Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:15 am

Post by Textbook »

Incognito wrote:
Post 80, Textbook wrote:...because I like it where it is.
So I'm correct to assume that you currently find Vas scummier than moose?
Certainly enough that I would like to keep my vote there. Personally, making accusations this early sounds foolish, but I am considering the idea of a Moose/Vas at this time. Rather than simply saying that I find Vas 'scummy', we can view this as a vote to hear more from him.

This vote is to keep the other players, such as yourself, aware of whom I want us to examine. I shall remove it when I am more convinced that it should be moved. Rather than continually placing it on the next person who makes a suspicious remark, I will wait. As I said before, I shan't build a case until more content surfaces.

VasudeVa: With as many people playing, would you say that competing wagons are helpful to the town?

Incognito: Is there anyone who
isn't
showing up on your radar?

moose200x: Silence is typical from the newcomers, so what about you?
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Post Post #84 (ISO) » Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:08 am

Post by VasudeVa »

Care to back up that accusation, TB? All you've explained is what you think, not why you thunk it.

Competing wagons give us an idea where people stand. Suppose we wagon one scum and one Town, we know that the other un-wagoned scum will try to help his buddy by keeping on the other guy etc. etc. There are too many combinations here, but it's a good way to start.
Call me Vas, ;D A little less active than I used to be due to IRL. Hoping to be back up to speed soon-ish!
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Post Post #85 (ISO) » Thu Oct 07, 2010 12:40 pm

Post by Textbook »

The only reason that I have to put you two up, is that you seem to be the most coordinated of the players here. Granted the two of you are both at SE status, making it quite unlikely that both of you could be scum. All the same, I don't want to abandon the thought so quickly. You were both on the L3MON wagon with our IC, and have been instructing the remainder of the new players ever since.

It gives the impression that you three are some sort of unshakable wall. The points of discussion have managed to turn the less...focused players. For me to turn my gaze on them seems much more scummy, as preying on the weak or inactive is highly chastised as far as the games that I've read go.
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Post Post #86 (ISO) » Thu Oct 07, 2010 1:41 pm

Post by Incognito »

Posy 83, Textbook wrote:Incognito: Is there anyone who
isn't
showing up on your radar?
Currently, Vas has given me pretty good vibes - I've gotten the feeling from his posts that he's genuinely looking for scum. I mentioned in my past post that I didn't have a problem with moose but as of right now, I agree that he needs to do more stuff. I caught what I thought was a minor town tell from ilikemusicdoyou, but she's another person who needs to produce more in the way of content before my read of her becomes more solid. Currently, you're giving me more of a middling read. Everyone else seems pretty neutral to me right now because they're not really saying much.

And actually, I'm gonna
unvote, vote: xo L3MON ox
.
Maybe another L-2 wagon will shake things up a bit. Plus, I'm not crazy about the whole post when under pressure and then scurry off thing.

@all the newer players: What's your previous experience with playing forum Mafia? Why aren't more of you posting?
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patrickgower2006 (8:12:07 PM): like dish water
If you see Patrick drinking dish water, please try and stop him. Friends don't let friends drink dish water.[/color][/ooc]
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Post Post #87 (ISO) » Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:41 pm

Post by Blackcloak »

Incognito wrote: @all the newer players: What's your previous experience with playing forum Mafia? Why aren't more of you posting?
Well, I saw you quoting my post last time and I do understand that the town needs everyone's contribution but as of right now, I really have next to nothing to say. I can understand that the more discussion there is, the better it is for the Town, but I also feel like we're all nitpicking here for the most part and going in circles, which is understandable since it's only Day 1. I outlined some of the
least
likely potential scumpairs to myself (Vinicius-Lemon as a random example) but that's about as far as my guesses go.

As for my experience with forum Mafia, I only played a themed 30 player game once on a non-Mafia related forum recently, and I really liked it so I decided to register here (since the games there aren't hosted too often). I was a pro-town Doctor but got nightkilled by the mafia halfway through after trying to persuade people to lynch one of them (lost by one vote =/) .
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Post Post #88 (ISO) » Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:29 pm

Post by Textbook »

Incognito wrote:@all the newer players: What's your previous experience with playing forum Mafia?
*raises hand*

I have never played before a few months ago. I was following a game on another forum and it looked like a blast. I am currently in a game at the aforementioned forum and that would be the first I've ever played. The guy who was moderating the game is a member here and he pointed me to this site. Since then I've been reading plenty of games in the Theme Park and Road to Rome. Also spent some time in the wiki looking at roles and terms and such.

(Shame about Green Earth, Vas. I was rooting for the Alliance.)

Blackcloak: How active do you like your game? Posting once a day, or long dialogues with people who are around?
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Post Post #89 (ISO) » Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:44 pm

Post by Blackcloak »

Textbook wrote: Blackcloak: How active do you like your game? Posting once a day, or long dialogues with people who are around?
Depends. I have no real preferred pattern but I tend to post more if 1) There's an interesting discussion going on as I log in and/or 2) I have a strong suspicion of someone being mafia and I'm fairly confident about it. Of course I will also post whenever someone asks me a question/votes for me nonrandomly etc etc.
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Post Post #90 (ISO) » Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:02 pm

Post by Powerrox93 »

Incognito wrote:@all the newer players: What's your previous experience with playing forum Mafia? Why aren't more of you posting?
I have three completed games on MTG Salvation (But replaced in in two of those) + two others in progress,
Hoping to make a comeback to mafia soon...

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Post Post #91 (ISO) » Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:21 pm

Post by Incognito »

Man, I didn't wanna have to do this because I hate it when I get too wordy, but given some of the responses to my latest question, I feel like it's necessary.

If you read around the site, one of the major differences that you'll see when you compare this site's Mafia games to other site's Mafia games is the amount of focus on the Day game versus the amount of focus on the Night game as well as other factors. It goes something like this:

MafiaScum
  • Heavy focus on the Day game
  • Larger ratio of Vanilla Townies:Town Power Roles
  • Longer deadlines and slower moving games
Most Other Sites
  • Heavy focus on the Night game
  • Smaller ratio of Vanilla Townies:Town Power Roles
  • Shorter deadlines and faster moving games
What all of this means is we tend to analyze people's words and actions much more than other sites do. While other sites might just lynch any random person on Day 1 and then go into Night to let the town power roles jump into action to find the scum, the format of games on our site forces players to try and find the scum using logic, reasoning, gut, etc and to only rely on the behind-the-scenes-like power roles to a very small extent.

So, Blackcloak, when you say that some of the stuff you've read seems nitpicky, that's a pretty big reason why. In order to find scum around here,
a)
one needs to be willing to try and generate readable, alignment-revealing reactions,
b)
one needs to be willing to try and force the scum out of their comfort zone, and
c)
one needs to be able to read into all of those reactions correctly to separate town from scum. Being able to do this well on a consistent basis takes a lot of practice obviously.
Post 87, Blackcloak wrote:I outlined some of the
least
likely potential scumpairs to myself (Vinicius-Lemon as a random example) but that's about as far as my guesses go.
Can you explain this some? Why do you think Vinicius-Lemon is unlikely?
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If you see Patrick drinking dish water, please try and stop him. Friends don't let friends drink dish water.[/color][/ooc]
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Post Post #92 (ISO) » Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:46 pm

Post by ilikemusicdoyou »

Incognito wrote:ilikemusicdoyou, I already explained my logic in this post. Did you miss that?
Sure did

UNVOTE Incognito


but
FOS
for bringing us a new L-2
do you think that is wise?
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Post Post #93 (ISO) » Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:08 pm

Post by Textbook »

L-2 is nothing to get excited over. With the votes spread across the field, there's no risk to anyone right now. Incognito's move makes logical sense regardless of who he gave the L-2.
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Post Post #94 (ISO) » Fri Oct 08, 2010 1:31 am

Post by Blackcloak »

Incognito wrote:Can you explain this some? Why do you think Vinicius-Lemon is unlikely?
Because Vinicius has only posted twice and one of his posts was introduction and the other -
Vinicius Chaim wrote:Incognito, just to explain, my name is Vinicius Chaim, with H ;)

well, what I read is 90% RVS, but the other 10% is really something we have to think and start suspecting
the L-1 thing I believe he didn't realize it was L-1, by reading, neither did I realize
your post #61 is really something we have to start wondering why the guy left and start scumhunting
Your post 61 was mostly aimed at Lemon and the person who had his spot originally. I do understand that mafia members may want to throw some suspicion on one another from time to time, but I personally find it unlikely that Vinicius as a newbie scum would strongly outline the argument against his scumbuddy in his first relevant post when we had a few other ones which seemed at least as serious to me.

As for the rest of your post, it was noted. I'll see what I can do.
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Post Post #95 (ISO) » Fri Oct 08, 2010 2:37 am

Post by Powerrox93 »

Lets see how I feel the following things fits in on MTGS.
Incognito wrote:
Most Other Sites
  • Heavy focus on the Night game
  • Smaller ratio of Vanilla Townies:Town Power Roles
  • Shorter deadlines and faster moving games
What all of this means is we tend to analyze people's words and actions much more than other sites do. While other sites might just lynch any random person on Day 1 and then go into Night to let the town power roles jump into action to find the scum, the format of games on our site forces players to try and find the scum using logic, reasoning, gut, etc and to only rely on the behind-the-scenes-like power roles to a very small extent.
The points that you mentions in the list, both yes and no on them. It depend on what kind of game it is. But there is one ongoing 20-person game (
I'm not in that and haven't followed it
) that almost hit 2200 post on game day 1 (Lasted 48 or so days IRL, which means over 45 posts/IRL day).
We also tries to hunt scum in the way you described it.
IIRC, someone on MTGS said that mafia was lynched ~50% of the time on D1 when that persons checked it, so no you can't say that we are random lynching D1 on sally.
Hoping to make a comeback to mafia soon...

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Post Post #96 (ISO) » Fri Oct 08, 2010 4:34 am

Post by kunkstar7 »

Vinicius Chaim has requested replacement.
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Post Post #97 (ISO) » Fri Oct 08, 2010 5:06 am

Post by VasudeVa »

Textbook wrote:The only reason that I have to put you two up, is that you seem to be the most coordinated of the players here. Granted the two of you are both at SE status, making it quite unlikely that both of you could be scum. All the same, I don't want to abandon the thought so quickly. You were both on the L3MON wagon with our IC, and have been instructing the remainder of the new players ever since.

It gives the impression that you three are some sort of unshakable wall. The points of discussion have managed to turn the less...focused players. For me to turn my gaze on them seems much more scummy, as preying on the weak or inactive is highly chastised as far as the games that I've read go.
There is an explanation for that though. You're new to this site. In this site, early RVS wagons are a norm. They pick up speed from the opening of the day and so forth. It's like an unwritten code that we need to start early RVS wagons in order to start finding out people's alignments. So, yes, it probably has something to do with us being SEs.

It isn't as unlikely as you think though, everyone has a 2/9 chance of being scum in this game~
Textbook wrote:(Shame about Green Earth, Vas. I was rooting for the Alliance.)
You...read that game? :oops:

Which member are you talking about? Maybe I know him~ (Since this is a pretty closeknit community and all.)
Call me Vas, ;D A little less active than I used to be due to IRL. Hoping to be back up to speed soon-ish!
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Post Post #98 (ISO) » Fri Oct 08, 2010 1:40 pm

Post by Textbook »

Yeah, I'm a fan of Advance Wars. Thought I'd read it. It was very flavorful, good stuff.

SGRaaize. I'm not sure if you know 'em.
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Post Post #99 (ISO) » Fri Oct 08, 2010 2:00 pm

Post by moose200x »

ilikemusicdoyou wrote:
Incognito wrote:ilikemusicdoyou, I already explained my logic in this post. Did you miss that?
Sure did

UNVOTE Incognito


but
FOS
for bringing us a new L-2
do you think that is wise?

Come on, get your vote back on incog there or at least put it on someone else. Votes are our second best weapon besides the actual lynch. Do you think Incog there is being scummy or making a foolish vote?

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