Newbie 1022 - Game Over

[TheLonging]

Vote: drmyshottyizsik

Hello people, I am your other SE, and I will help you however possible.

my vote is also not random. I do have experience playing with this guy, and I must say, he won't change. He doesn't want to be replaced out so that leaves a policy lynch, kill, or force-replace. I believe that by helping to policy wagon him, we can get some info, and hopefully lynch shotty.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

I am interested to see how this shotty will defend himself, so for now I think I'll add a little more pressure by:

Vote Lynch drmyshottyizsik

Jeez, did I spell that right? I shoulda copypasta'd.

Avish, please read over the rules post. This vote is formatted incorrectly and does NOT count.



Official Vote Count

Leech - 1 (VasudeVa)
drmyshottyizsik - 3 (AurorusVox, Leech, TheLonging)
Chief - 1 (Kingcheese)

Not Voting - 4 (Avish, Chief, EggyLv999, drmyshottyizsik)

5 to Lynch.

Click for Deadline

[TheLonging]

Let's consider Avish as a vote and shotty is unofficially at L-1.

shotty, claim.

[TheLonging]

by the way, L-1 = lynch -1, or 1 more vote to lynch. And it's good for shotty to claim since he is almost lynched.

[Avish]

Sorry. I was so tweaked about spelling his name I used the format used on my other site. O.o

I shall attempt to be more careful in the future.

Vote: drmyshottyizsik

Did I get it this time?


I actually dislike the concept of voting for someone just because he's unpopular. Mind you, I did make note that some folks have what appears to be legitimate complaints against him, but still...

However, the fact that this is Wednesday evening and dude has not shown up to defend himself leaves me rather unimpressed.

[Kingcheese]

I can't control your voting but I implore you to take Shotty off of L-1.

I am NOT defending him, we haven't even heard from shotty, and likely the next 1st gamer to check in will hammer without knowing any better.

Having a lynch on the 2nd page of the game will likely not be profitable to the town. I understand your policy lynching and I don't disagree, but not this early. We have roughly a three week deadline if I'm correct. Use it please.

We should be using this time to analyze each other and have a better idea of who and who not is scum. Not policy lynching on page 2.

[Avish]

My question is this:

How long is a ridiculous amount of time to not bother checking into a game around here?

[EggyLv999]

LAWL ok DON'T VOTE SHOTTY UNTIL HE TALKS. IF HE GETS REPLACED BY A MIRACLE, THAT'S GREAT FOR TOWN.

[AurorusVox]

@TheLonging

Did you know that Avish's vote didn't count, i.e. did you know you weren't putting him at L-1? Or should we treat your vote as a L-1 vote for all intents and purposes?

@Kingcheese

If any of us unvoted now, we would disrupt getting Shotty to claim/react to the pressure. I initially RVS'd Shotty simply for modding a game I was in. Now, though, I'm happy to maintain my vote (hence it is no longer random) since it will be much more productive to see what he says/how he reacts than to put the brakes on the wagon and lose that pressure and information.

I am pretty sure that Chief won't vote for Shotty since he said that he wants to see Shotty turn up before doing anything. Eggy has also said that he doesn't feel Shotty deserves a vote just yet, and so I expect that he won't vote for him either. We can hope that Shotty won't self-hammer. You and Vas are not on the Shotty wagon and seem to have no interest in getting on it just yet. I believe that we can safely leave Shotty at L-1 until he blesses us with his presence and reacts to the wagon. Just because he is being voted does not mean he will get lynched.

@Avish

He should have turned up by now, but if you're going to accuse Shotty of taking too long to post, why did you not accuse TheLonging for the same thing? TheLonging has only posted today, which is over five days into the game.

Regarding activity levels and "not checkinga game";

Activity/Prods/Replacements

1. You should aim for one post every 48 hours, minimum, to keep the game moving.
   
2. Prods of missing players will be issued upon request or after 3 real-life days of no activity.
   
3. A prodded player has 48 hours to respond to the prod, after which time a replacement search will begin. The prodded player may re-enter the game so long as no replacement has been found.
   
4. A player who has been prodded 3 times is subject to possible replacement without further notice (player-requested prods do not count towards this total).
   
5. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please PM the Mod so that you don’t get replaced!

@Mod: Can we get a prod of Shotty please?

Already done.

~Vel

[TheLonging]

I didn't realize the game started because I had real life priorities.

[AurorusVox]

That's fine, I wasn't taking issue with you not posting until now; I was taking issue with Avish

not

taking issue with it. On that note: would you say that Avish's concern with Shotty's absence is weak, considering the possibility that Shotty also has IRL priorities?

And, what about my question regarding the L-1 vote?

[Avish]

@AurorusVox

Yes, but TheLonging has, in fact, checked in. Furthermore, he checked in before I made my inquiry. My initial mis-vote was simply intended to place more pressure on this guy about whom people have negative things to say. It's only now that I'm wondering where he is and if his absence is normal. I simply don't know how things work around here. It's very different from the other forum where I have experience. And sure, he could have IRL priorities...

that's why I'm asking

. Games clearly move a lot slower here than I'm accustomed to them moving. I'm not complaining, mind, I'm just trying to get a handle on all this stuff that is new to me.

As far as that L-1 thing, when I read it myself I assumed he was assuming that I would change my vote to a valid one. Which I did. Didn't I?

[AurorusVox]

- But my point is that the distinction between them isn't that big. You seem concerned that Shotty hasn't posted; TheLonging had only posted 6ish hours before you voiced that concern. It piqued my interest because it could be considered an inconsistency.

- Of course, we can't know if Shotty has IRL issues until he posts, but if he hasn't, then it's strange that he'd not have posted yet. We'll see if he comes to the call of the prod.

- No, what I'm asking is: whether we are to treat TheLonging's vote as the L-1 in terms of wagon analysis. If he knew that your vote wouldn't count, we should treat it as L-2 and treat yours as L-1. If he didn't know, it would be the opposite.

- And I'd say your initial (unsuccessful) pressure vote was a valid vote. It had a purpose behind it, and that makes it non-random.

[Kingcheese]

I'd like to ask some questions directed at a couple people based on things I have observed.

@Vas

How do you feel about how the Shotty wagon has developed? If Shotty is replaced due to his inactivity, how would you feel towards the replacement?

@TheLonging

To me, hopping on the Shotty bandwagon to make it L-1 seems scummy to me. I mean Shotty is an ideal target to bandwagon on, everyone seems to have a gripe with him. Maybe someone will lynch him this early. It is a newbie game and most of us are still learning the ropes after all. My question is do you feel that post could have any impact towards you later in the game? Or do you consider yourself to be a straight shooter, unafraid to hammer or vote on a controversial issue if the need arrives?

@Shotty

If you do ever appear, why is it taking so long to post? RL concerns? And lastly do you think (If you do appear and play through the game) such a long time away will have put you in a hole early?

That's all at the moment.

[Avish]

@Vox

Fair enough. His absence is just an afterthought. It didn't have anything to do with my vote, really. In my mind "unimpressed" is not as severe as "concerned". If I was trying to use his absence as a reason to lynch him, than you would be correct. That isn't really what I'd intended. If I'm guilty of anything, it's sloppy posting. As I said, I don't know the norm around here. Maybe prods from the mod are business as usual.

Re: The L-1 vs. L-2 thing. I'm not really following. New jargon is fun to choke down in a hurry.

[Kingcheese]

@Vox

Re: The L-1 vs. L-2 thing. I'm not really following. New jargon is fun to choke down in a hurry.

If you are asking what these terms mean:

L1= 1 vote to lynch

L2= 2 votes to lynch

In most games voting patterns can be used to build cases on suspected scum. L-1 and L-2 votes for this reason are very important, and it is good to analyze why someone voted where they voted and why.

[Avish]

I could at least discern the terms. XD What I am unsure about is how valuable the placement really is. Especially under these circumstances during Day 1. Then again, I have never played a game this small. It is something of an adjustment.

[TheLonging]

And, what about my question regarding the L-1 vote?

I knew his vote didn't count, I merely voted for him in regards to technically put him at L-1, since I assumed Avish would vote him soon anyways.

@TheLonging

To me, hopping on the Shotty bandwagon to make it L-1 seems scummy to me. I mean Shotty is an ideal target to bandwagon on, everyone seems to have a gripe with him. Maybe someone will lynch him this early. It is a newbie game and most of us are still learning the ropes after all. My question is do you feel that post could have any impact towards you later in the game? Or do you consider yourself to be a straight shooter, unafraid to hammer or vote on a controversial issue if the need arrives?

I am aggressive and a straight-shooter. So no, I am not afraid to do controversial things to help try and find scum.

[drmyshottyizsik]

I'm here don't fret, chilllll!!!!!!!

And I claim townie plain and simple, also do not lynch me yet!
We are two pages in, and lynch all townie claims is just a sad excuse for a policy lynch!
I will be back later tonight, calm down

[VasudeVa]

That is only true in newbie games, just so you know. There are setups where it makes perfect sense for townies to lie. In fact, one of the most effective gambits in this game is based on a lie. There are situations that call for it, so I'd restrict that specifically to newbie games.

I actually agree with this one. One of my more memorable games included fakeclaiming SuperSaint as Town. It had

wonderful

results, changing a player from a prob-mislynch to Town, and with the help of confirmed Masons, narrowed down scum in a flash.

my vote is also not random. I do have experience playing with this guy, and I must say, he won't change. He doesn't want to be replaced out so that leaves a policy lynch, kill, or force-replace. I believe that by helping to policy wagon him, we can get some info, and hopefully lynch shotty.

What info here that we will gain? Reading through the thread, it's almost like everyone here is giving scum a free-pass to vote for shotty, rather than making their vote come with the risks involved? Also, I am against force-replacing out people since it's a little bit of a dickish move. (Besides, don'tcha think that playing Mafia is all about learning to read all types of people, even the ones you dislike? )

---

shotty already claimed. Members of the wagon, what do you have to say about it?

On a side note: I slightly dislike Avish's #29 since it feels all sorts of forced. It says here he dislikes voting an unpopular person..but does so anyway, officially putting it in an L-1 and then adding a reasoning that 'this guy hasn't checked in yet since wednesday'(whilst ignoring TL too)

Vote: Avish

Hey Avish, what site did you come from? Are Page 2 L-1 wagons a norm there?

[Leech]

To me, hopping on the Shotty bandwagon to make it L-1 seems scummy to me. I mean Shotty is an ideal target to bandwagon on, everyone seems to have a gripe with him. Maybe someone will lynch him this early.

As scum, would you lynch a player as disruptive as Shotty? Would you endorse a lynch, or even night kill, a player that has self-hammered as town in LyLo? Up until I'm making this point, I really don't see scum wanting to get rid of the guy for the reasons I do. When he's town, he helps scum. When he's scum, well...he helps town. (By getting lynched.) Scum tend to keep these VI's around because it increases their odds of winning. The longer players like him are around the longer town constantly has to deal with the WIFOM of it. Also lynching him later in the game, when he's town, makes it impossible for us to hit scum in that phase. Except for the wifom this post will create on the subject, I don't see scum hammering Shotty this early.

We are two pages in, and lynch all townie claims is just a sad excuse for a policy lynch!

This is not why we are policy lynching you.

[Kingcheese]

To me, hopping on the Shotty bandwagon to make it L-1 seems scummy to me. I mean Shotty is an ideal target to bandwagon on, everyone seems to have a gripe with him. Maybe someone will lynch him this early.

As scum, would you lynch a player as disruptive as Shotty? Would you endorse a lynch, or even night kill, a player that has self-hammered as town in LyLo? Up until I'm making this point, I really don't see scum wanting to get rid of the guy for the reasons I do. When he's town, he helps scum. When he's scum, well...he helps town. (By getting lynched.) Scum tend to keep these VI's around because it increases their odds of winning. The longer players like him are around the longer town constantly has to deal with the WIFOM of it. Also lynching him later in the game, when he's town, makes it impossible for us to hit scum in that phase. Except for the wifom this post will create on the subject, I don't see scum hammering Shotty this early.

While your point is valid I believe it is a two way street. Scum could easily piggyback onto the bandwagon and get Shotty lynched. We then come into day two on page 3 or 4 and have a terrible place to start the day from. Assuming Shotty flipped town we have one less day to work with. In my situation it matters not if the bandwagon is against a VI, just a fast day that helps the town little.

[Avish]

@Vas

I come from NarutoFan. If you aren't familiar with it, it is obviously an anime forum. Unsurprisingly, the largest subsection is concerned with Naruto, but there are many other subsections: Bleach, One Piece, anime/manga/comics in general, computer graphics, art and culture, and a social subforum. Mafia games are a tiny blip of activity there.

Are Page 2 L-1 wagons a norm there? Attempting a comparison between those games and these games is an exercise in futility. People usually vote no lynch on Day 1, unless there is an unpopular person playing...then he gets done away with, simply for being unpopular. The smallest game I have ever played was 25 players. The Day 1 phase usually lasts a lot less than an actual day. People don't start trying to figure anything out until they see who died in the Night 1 phase. If a day phase lasts more than 24 hours, people start gripping at the mod. Night phases are usually even shorter. Within 3 hours of the game start we are usually on the 5th or 6th page. At least. Do you see what I"m getting at? It's a completely different vibe.

Perhaps having someone at L-1 this early is reckless. I'm not really expecting anyone to...hammer(?) him, though. I voted for him because I wanted to hear his response to the accusations that he is harmful to the town regardless of his alignment. What I object to is voting someone out simply because you don't like him personally. Voting someone out because he is harmful to the town no matter what is a different matter, as I see it. He has made an appearance, so I think that the prod might have worked. If he simply didn't notice that the game was already moving, that's understandable. As I already stated, his absence was an afterthought and not my reason for voting for him.


By the way: I am a woman. My gender is clearly listed under my avatar. As such, I would prefer to be referred to in the feminine pronoun. Thanks.

[drmyshottyizsik]

You're just a big narito fan?

[Avish]

Out of all I typed, that is what you respond to????


I would say that I have a love/hate relationship with Naruto. You may have missed my saying so in my previous post, but that forum has a lot more to offer than just Naruto.