Updated Mod Eligibility Rules

[Nobody Special]

Ten weeks is complex; it's far simpler to count whole months.

On the one hand, two months -- given the current queue situation -- should be fine, as it then equates to ~5 months onsite.

However, if the queue situation were to drastically shrink, it would be less. And an elastic time restriction based on the current queue size is just wrong.

So, I vote for three months.

[Max]

If a game is similar to Foolster's Hockey theme. Will it still come under Large Theme or Special.

The above example is the closest I've got to my currently in the works game. But I wanted to check whether I'd need to design a proposal or something to be given the go-ahead.

[Hoopla]

I'd be okay with the IC status thing, but 6 months seems unnecessary given that it takes a number of months to get through the mini normal queue. As a result, a six month requirement would make it so that the earliest anyone ever modded a game was 9 months to a year after they started playing, and i don't know that we really gain that much from doing that.

I haven't done any extensive research on this, but I think of all the new players that come through, many don't make the 3 month bracket, with the scale gradually sliding down in the 3-6 month category, and even more in 6+ month category. I expect that bumping the wait time to 6 months would minimise the queue in the long run by a couple of months, changing the overall structure to be; wait 6 months + 2/3, rather than wait 3 months + 4/5.

Of all the new, first time mods that come through the Normal Review Group, there have been some wildly unbalanced games and some wildly inexperienced players who don't get how and why things work here. Even coming from another site, our culture is significantly different, to the point where it must take at least 5-10 games to get accustomed and have any basic understanding of our game. 6 months + 5 games completed seems like a good threshold to me to ensure more knowledgeable mods come through, so we're not designing their game for them. There are a lot of mods who /in on the first day of being eligible and do little in the time they're waiting. Designing their game at this stage of their understanding isn't going to produce well-balanced or fun games.

I don't think 6 months is overly harsh. Modding is a privilege, and a service to the community, not a right. Playing is always more important, and I don't see why it's unfair to disallow someone who has only played a game once to give it a shot.

[ReaperCharlie]

Alright mith. When you put it that way I can see where you're coming from more.

Also:

is there any likelihood of increasing the amount of Large Themes run by one mod to TWO as opposed to one, especially if he or she has multiple equally-qualified backup mods and/or is not backup modding for someone else's Large Theme? I think for mods who have already run X number of games, this should be an option.

Sincerely,
-Reaper

[animorpherv1]

Alright mith. When you put it that way I can see where you're coming from more.

Also:

is there any likelihood of increasing the amount of Large Themes run by one mod to TWO as opposed to one, especially if he or she has multiple equally-qualified backup mods and/or is not backup modding for someone else's Large Theme? I think for mods who have already run X number of games, this should be an option.

Sincerely,
-Reaper

I'd be up for this if you put it at 5 games. The second one should, imo, count as a "special"

[zoraster]

I'd be okay with the IC status thing, but 6 months seems unnecessary given that it takes a number of months to get through the mini normal queue. As a result, a six month requirement would make it so that the earliest anyone ever modded a game was 9 months to a year after they started playing, and i don't know that we really gain that much from doing that.

I haven't done any extensive research on this, but I think of all the new players that come through, many don't make the 3 month bracket, with the scale gradually sliding down in the 3-6 month category, and even more in 6+ month category. I expect that bumping the wait time to 6 months would minimise the queue in the long run by a couple of months, changing the overall structure to be; wait 6 months + 2/3, rather than wait 3 months + 4/5.

Of all the new, first time mods that come through the Normal Review Group, there have been some wildly unbalanced games and some wildly inexperienced players who don't get how and why things work here. Even coming from another site, our culture is significantly different, to the point where it must take at least 5-10 games to get accustomed and have any basic understanding of our game. 6 months + 5 games completed seems like a good threshold to me to ensure more knowledgeable mods come through, so we're not designing their game for them. There are a lot of mods who /in on the first day of being eligible and do little in the time they're waiting. Designing their game at this stage of their understanding isn't going to produce well-balanced or fun games.

I don't think 6 months is overly harsh. Modding is a privilege, and a service to the community, not a right. Playing is always more important, and I don't see why it's unfair to disallow someone who has only played a game once to give it a shot.

But I don't think that's a function of time on the site, at least not directly. It's a function of getting involved. If you institute you must qualify for IC status as well as been here three months, you'd already have fulfilled what you're going for.

---
And no. Mods shouldn't be running two large games at a time. There's just no need for it. We aren't in need of more large games. Just run one at a time. It can be frustrating to wait when you think you have a great second idea, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

[ReaperCharlie]

to the point where it must take at least 5-10 games to get accustomed and have any basic understanding of our game.

For the record, I was acclimatized after about 1/3 to 1/2 of Star Wars Mafia, my first game on-site.

[Kcdaspot]

would you think "special games" as defined here would require

there

their own forum?


EDIT: SDFASDFSDFASDFASDFADWFASDFASDFASDF GRAMMAR!!!

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

to the point where it must take at least 5-10 games to get accustomed and have any basic understanding of our game.

For the record, I was acclimatized after about 1/3 to 1/2 of Star Wars Mafia, my first game on-site.

Not everyone can get good at Mafia so quickly. For example, it took me fifteen games before I got used to playing the game and started to get good at it, and that's not including Smash World Forums, which I never really got used to the style of. You may have had a decent off-site experience that made you a decent player on Mafiascum from the site, but I haven't.

[Nobody Special]

I've played over 30 games here, and I still suck. Thank heavens playing expertise isn't a requirement for Modding.

[zoraster]

would you think "special games" as defined here would require

there

their own forum?


EDIT: SDFASDFSDFASDFASDFADWFASDFASDFASDF GRAMMAR!!!

probably depends on the special quality of it. For example the California Trilogy did (though I'm still not clear what that game was), but the /in-vitationals and Team Mafia will not.

[Faraday]

Speaking of. Next /in-vitational is when?

[Kcdaspot]

/not invited...

;_;

[Kcdaspot]

would you think "special games" as defined here would require

there

their own forum?


EDIT: SDFASDFSDFASDFASDFADWFASDFASDFASDF GRAMMAR!!!

probably depends on the special quality of it. For example the California Trilogy did (though I'm still not clear what that game was), but the /in-vitationals and Team Mafia will not.

oh my bad... i meant another BOARD.. on site.

[Hoopla]

to the point where it must take at least 5-10 games to get accustomed and have any basic understanding of our game.

For the record, I was acclimatized after about 1/3 to 1/2 of Star Wars Mafia, my first game on-site.

I don't know about that.

[Vi]

I'd be okay with the IC status thing, but 6 months seems unnecessary given that it takes a number of months to get through the mini normal queue. As a result, a six month requirement would make it so that the earliest anyone ever modded a game was 9 months to a year after they started playing, and i don't know that we really gain that much from doing that.

I haven't done any extensive research on this, but I think of all the new players that come through, many don't make the 3 month bracket, with the scale gradually sliding down in the 3-6 month category, and even more in 6+ month category. I expect that bumping the wait time to 6 months would minimise the queue in the long run by a couple of months, changing the overall structure to be; wait 6 months + 2/3, rather than wait 3 months + 4/5.

The research here would simply be seeing how many first-time mods flake in queue. If there aren't many - and when I joined that wasn't the case, but I don't know how it is now - then this would be a bad idea.

Playing is always more important, and I don't see why it's unfair to disallow someone who has only played a game once to give it a shot.

...which is the idea behind IC status.

[Zachrulez]

I'm honestly not sure why we are talking about increasing the experience requirements for modding when you're pretty much having your hand held to even be able to mod a mini normal now, (which I've had a lot to say about in the past) and open game modding is pretty self explanatory in general.

Maybe someone wants to qualify why the extra experience is necessary and what difference it's going to make vs the way things are now.

[zoraster]

I'd be okay with the IC status thing, but 6 months seems unnecessary given that it takes a number of months to get through the mini normal queue. As a result, a six month requirement would make it so that the earliest anyone ever modded a game was 9 months to a year after they started playing, and i don't know that we really gain that much from doing that.

I haven't done any extensive research on this, but I think of all the new players that come through, many don't make the 3 month bracket, with the scale gradually sliding down in the 3-6 month category, and even more in 6+ month category. I expect that bumping the wait time to 6 months would minimise the queue in the long run by a couple of months, changing the overall structure to be; wait 6 months + 2/3, rather than wait 3 months + 4/5.

The research here would simply be seeing how many first-time mods flake in queue. If there aren't many - and when I joined that wasn't the case, but I don't know how it is now - then this would be a bad idea.

Playing is always more important, and I don't see why it's unfair to disallow someone who has only played a game once to give it a shot.

...which is the idea behind IC status.

Flake from the queue or flake from the game, Vi? Because flaking from the queue isn't bad, although a bit annoying for the listmod. Flaking from the game is obviously terrible. I don't recall many instances of mod flaking their first game though. But I'm admittedly more plugged into the repeat-player repeat-mod scene of themes.

[ReaperCharlie]

to the point where it must take at least 5-10 games to get accustomed and have any basic understanding of our game.

For the record, I was acclimatized after about 1/3 to 1/2 of Star Wars Mafia, my first game on-site.

I don't know about that.

Well, I do.

I was certainly "accustomed to" and had "basic understanding of the game."

Do you disagree?

[AGar]

Even coming from another site, our culture is significantly different, to the point where it must take at least 5-10 games to get accustomed and have any basic understanding of our game.

Where are you drawing this from? Most people I see play get the grasp within a game or two, three max, of the site basics, and the ones who don't usually move on. You act like MafiaScum is some "next level" of mafia playing, when in fact it's not hard to get too accustomed here. We play a lot, we have some advanced concepts, but the biggest "hump" for new players to get over would generally be our focus on the day phase, as opposed to the night phase, which most sites rely on more to do the work for them. The terminology can be picked up quickly, and playing a game can generally teach you the concepts that players use for scumhunting just by following along and thinking.

The issue of balance, well that's another whole issue here, but just because a player comes in with a wildly unbalanced setup doesn't mean he has no idea what's going on. If this is really the case, maybe find 10-15 boilerplate setups for the Mini Normal queue that new mods are given? I don't feel like 4 more required games + 3 more months is going to give any player a better perspective on balance, especially if they stray to the theme queues, where most games are swingy and designed with a mechanic or theme in mind over balance.

[Porochaz]

Firstly I think how good someone is, is very subjective and your own opinion of yourself may be wildly different from other peoples opinions. Take vezok for example...

I don't really see the need to lengthen or shorten the current rules, having said that I agree with Hoopla more than anyone else here.

[zoraster]

Firstly I think how good someone is, is very subjective and your own opinion of yourself may be wildly different from other peoples opinions. Take vezok for example...

I don't really see the need to lengthen or shorten the current rules, having said that I agree with Hoopla more than anyone else here.

Except that Hoopla is arguing for the most draconian of rule changes?

But yeah, I agree a good player is not the same as a good mod, but we're not really asking mods to be GOOD, just experienced and knowledgeable and "fit" with our culture.

[Zachrulez]

Frankly, if you don't have the experience of knowledge for modding, you're not going to necessarily acquire that knowledge as a player. Such experience and knowledge is acquired through modding.

If you want smooth balanced normal games, the real solution to the problem is to certify normal setups as balanced and encourage use of certified balanced setups for first time mods. (There's really only so much you can do in the confines of a normal game setup to create a balanced game.) The real issue with Normal games is how much freedom we want to allow mods to chose what's in the setup.

Though on my own personal experience, I've had more issues with theme games I've played in vs normal games. And most of the issues I've ever had with normals are over 2 years old now.

[Porochaz]

We aren't asking our mods to be good, but we probably should be.

I do think its slightly draconian, but I do think there needs to be a way of A. improving the quality of games and B. a way of ultimately reducing the people wanting to mod games.

Post post edit - I dont think Zach is being serious here but if you start to use certified normal setups then you start going to wards open games.

[Zachrulez]

I would argue we're already heading into that direction to a degree with some of the changes that have been made to the normal que.