Open 348 - JK9 Game over (Who won?)

[Pine]

^That's L-1.

[Pine]

Additionally, in reviewing my stream-of-consciousness list of reads, it occurs to me that if we assume my Townreads are accurate, then our two goons are within this set: {kondi, Jon, Mattman} in that order from more to less likely. Obviously, as some of my Townreads are not especially strong, that list is not ironclad and may be subject to alteration given changes in behavior.

[smallpeoples343]

Considering the low activity that we've been having and the fact that lynches give us more info than no-lynches, I think we need to lynch someone.

[-L-]

Initial impressions:

Pads

: First off the early duck wagon. Scum probably would have either pressed the matter or more likely just let it rest, with a comment to the effect of desiring pressure. Seems to be exploring leads as they come about.

smallpeoples343

: General weak Townread. Uneasy about the quick Apple wagon.

apple_singer

: Perhaps Town. The careless votecounting in #24 suggests Town, but can be feigned. Quick-wagoned without justification.

[L]

:

General Townread. Could have quickhammered duck and easily pretended "Oops!" but this is not outside the realm of WIFOM. Persues good leads, asks insightful questions, shows deductive reasoning with Mattman and kondi, though I disagree with the conclusions. Not a fan of the Apple vote, as I don't see sufficient reasons, especially when she already pointed out good reasons against kondi.

Mattman

: Called kondi out on scummy wagoning, could be bussing. Not enough content, too much fluff. That's consistent with what I've seen of him elsewhere, though. Update: Unlikely to be buddies with kondi given kondi's reaction.

duckhunter4242

: Town. That early wagon built up entirely too fast and with entirely too shoddy reasons.

kondi2424

: I dislike the very early "You're Town" @ Jon. Seems contrived. Additionally, the jump onto Apple's wagon also seems calculated, rapidly putting him to L-1 sans reasoning. Retaliated against mattman for presenting a valid point. Mattman and kondi unlikely to be buddies given reaction.

JonWJ007

: Second candidate for scum at this point, primarily because of putting duckhunter to L-2 on the first page of RVS. Careless at very best and unacceptably scummy at worst. Also some subtle rolefishing in #19, suggesting that one should claim at L-1 when he'd just put duck there.

@pine: Thanks for getting people to talk...if only for a bit.

My read on kondi still stands. When I make scumreads, just because I act on one does invalidate the belief that the other is scum.

Why would I have only one suspect at a time?

What is your take on the observation Pads made about an RVS wagon-squawker? You have a problem with the Apple vote, so please expound.

The more I think on it, I find myself doubting it. Frankly, I'm nervous to follow unfamiliar reasoning out of fear that it may be scum-generated. It has much merit though, because of the WIFOM that could possibly be involved.

@kondi: Now that you are L-1,

what are your reads

? You have not offered much input at all regarding the game, nor have you questioned anyone. My stance on you is unchanged - you are not helping town. Or do you not have any input?

[-L-]

EBWOP: "just because I act on one does

not

invalidate the belief that the other is scum."

[-L-]

Considering the low activity that we've been having and the fact that lynches give us more info than no-lynches, I think we need to lynch someone.

I sort of disagree - it's always better to lynch with more information on the table. With as little information as we currently have - a lynch, even a random one ["lynch someone"] - will not provide ANY information whatsoever. We'll be at the same square one we're on currently. Well, square one-and-a-half.

[smallpeoples343]

I believe that doing a no-lynch provides mafia with a free kill.

[Pine]

[L], my confusion with the seemingly contradictory suspicion of kondi and vote on Apple is that the vote on Apple was out of a clear blue sky, with nothing leading up to it (and no real explanation for it when it did happen.) On the other hand, you seem to have a strong opinion on kondi.

I'm willing to let this apparent contradiction go because almost everything else that you've done indicates Town, and it's possible you were just shelving kondi in favor of pursuing someone who had at that time received little scrutiny. At this point, however, we're gearing up to lynch kondi, in line with your expressed suspicions. Are you willing to declare intent to hammer?

[-L-]

[L], my confusion with the seemingly contradictory suspicion of kondi and vote on Apple is that the vote on Apple was out of a clear blue sky, with nothing leading up to it (and no real explanation for it when it did happen.) On the other hand, you seem to have a strong opinion on kondi.

I'm willing to let this apparent contradiction go because almost everything else that you've done indicates Town, and it's possible you were just shelving kondi in favor of pursuing someone who had at that time received little scrutiny. At this point, however, we're gearing up to lynch kondi, in line with your expressed suspicions. Are you willing to declare intent to hammer?

Let the contradiction go? There is no contradiction. I stated my reason! What are you talking about?

It's as if you are trying to frame me by saying I did not have a reason - 'clear blue sky' says my vote was random... I'll repost what I said.

VOTE: Apple

This is where I would place my vote in the interest of moving the game. I agree with Pads' reasoning - while the idea of the first person to squawk at an RVS wagon is new to me - it makes sense. Woe be unto me if I'm finding logic in a scum argument.

Scum would make an observation as Pads noted. It sets them up to make arguments down the road - for or against specific players. They can say "Look! I suspected them day 1!" etc etc.

What does everyone think about this? Please provide input - this game is only solved by talking.

FOS: Pine

for misrepresenting what I said.

I want kondi to answer my questions. I refuse to lynch and not have more info.

[-L-]

I believe that doing a no-lynch provides mafia with a free kill.

Of course no lynch does this. But that's not being discussed?

[Pine]

The misrepresentation was unintentional, and I retract it with apologies. It seems I did not read 63 closely enough. I think I'd already decided you were Town by that point, and was skimming reads I disagreed with.

[smallpeoples343]

The mafia should never get a free kill. (Except possibly in MILO)

[-L-]

The mafia should never get a free kill. (Except possibly in MILO)

No one is disputing this.

The point I'm trying to make - is that there is no reason to rush this lynch before we hear from kondi.

Considering the low activity that we've been having and the fact that lynches give us more info than no-lynches, I think we need to lynch someone.

This post just gave me the impression that you're rushing. That's worse than no lynch, imo.

[Pine]

Not to nitpick, but that NLing in a 3:1 MyLo isn't a free kill, as it increases the odds Town has of hitting scum with their last lynch.

[Pine]

[L], are you willing to hammer kondi?

[apple_singer]

In a heartbeat I'd prefer a rushed lynch to a no-lynch. With 9 people and 2 mafia town gets 2 kills before LYLO with a lynch every day but only 1 kill before MYLO with a no-lynch one day. Seeing the activity level, I'd be fine with a kondi lynch AFTER he posts a defense/reads if said defense is no good.

Have to go, can't say anything else. Sorry.

[-L-]

[L], are you willing to hammer kondi?

I am willing.

[-L-]

@jonW, what is your stance on kondi?

[JonWJ007]

I'm waiting to hear more from him. But from other games, heard he is site flaking for a while.

[ConSpiracy]

Random fact #4

Once the prison had spy cameras every where, because of the many bad things that were done there. However, the prisoners were accusing the prison bosses of invading their privacy so a judge finally made the decision to put away the cameras. How life would be much easier if those would be still here...

Votecount

Pads (1)

- Mattman

smallpeoples343 (0)

-

apple_singer (3)

- Pads, kondi2424,

[L]

Dsquared (0)

-

[L] (0)

-

Mattman (0)

-

duckhunter4242 (1)

- JonW007

kondi2424 (4)

- apple_singer, duckhunter4242,

Pine, smallpeoples343

JonWJ007 (0)

Not voting (0)

-

With

9 players

alive, it takes

5 votes

to lynch.
The deadline is set at

the 4th of november at 10 pm GMT+1

. That is

(expired on 2011-11-04 16:00:00)

from now.
Feel free to point out any mistakes.

[-L-]

What is site flaking? Not showing at all to any of your games?

[Pine]

Correct.

[-L-]

Then

Vote: kondi

.

[ConSpiracy]

Votecount

Pads (1)

- Mattman

smallpeoples343 (0)

-

apple_singer (2)

- Pads, kondi2424

Dsquared (0)

-

[L] (0)

-

Mattman (0)

-

duckhunter4242 (1)

- JonW007

kondi2424 (5)

- apple_singer, duckhunter4242, Pine, smallpeoples343,

[L]

(Lynch)

JonWJ007 (0)

Not voting (0)

-

After a lack of activity, Pine stirred it up and town became active again. Soon after becoming active, they decided that kondi was one of the conspiracists. Why they thought that? You should ask them. They all went to the roof, apple_singer and duckhunter holding kondi's arms and Pine and smallpeoples holding his legs. They cornered him and accused him of killing people. [L] decided at last to push kondi of the roof on the pointy rocks. The water turned red and when every body satisfied walked inside, they found kondi's wallet. He was just an innocent prisoner...

kondi,

Vanilla Townie

, was lynched day 1.

Night lasts 72 hours till

Thursday November 3rd 4 p.m. GMT+1

. That is

(expired on 2011-11-03 10:00:00)

from now.
Don't forget to send in your night actions if any.

Because Mattman didn't respond to his prod, but still had about 24 hours left, he recieves an aditional 24 hours to respond by pm. If no pm is recieved in that time, he will be replaced.

[ConSpiracy]

Mattman failed to respond, trying to find a replacement for him now.
If it takes a bit longer, the night might be extended a day or more.