mini1312-day 2

[Nero Cain]

Phases and Voting

1.Day Phases will have a 2 week maximum deadline.
2.Night Phases will have 24 hour deadlines.
3.The number of required votes to lynch is the majority of living players.
3a.If no player has received the required votes a no lynch will occur.
4.You are not dead until the lynch scene has been posted.
4a.Once lynched you may not talk in the game anymore.
5.All votes must be in bold. EX:

Vote: Nero

Unvoting is not required.
6.Participation is tech. After 48 hours of no activity you will be prodded. You have an additional 24 hours to respond to that prod. If you fail to respond to your prod you will be replaced.
7. Night talking is allowed. Since its allowed that time plays a factor in prods.

Conduct

1.

DO NOT

discuss ongoing games.
2.You may not discuss this game outside of this thread, for any reason, unless your role specifically states that you can do so
3.

DO NOT

quote your role or any private communications.
4.All posts must contain visible letters. You cannot use text that has to be highlighted to read, or text so small that it has to be enlarged. Just no sneaky shit.
5.You may not edit your posts once they are posted, for any reason. If you edit a post, you will receive a warning. If you do it twice you will be Mod-Killed.
6.Respect your mod and fellow players. Being deliberately disruptive in the game is a replaceable/modkillable offense.
7.Play to your wincon, not to your meta.
8. HAVE FUN!!!

1. triangle123
3. Akonas
5. Mimichu
6. Battousai
7. vijay2vasandani
8. Ghodorah
9. subgenius
10. Drchrist
11. Political Clout
12. Rix
13. treznor


kdowns lynched day 1. He was a

vanilla townie.

Praetyre killed night 1. He was a

miller mason.

[Nero Cain]

11 alive takes 6 to lynch.

Day 2 deadline is March 23rd 12:40 am cst

[Battousai]

Before we begin, do we have any access to the previous thread (check your cache)? I don't have anything saved. All I remember is who I thought was town, and scum (though I do not have the postings to back it up to form cases)

So, if we do not have anything to base it on, I think it might be best to start over and go with rvs again, but with 2 flips. Opinions, thoughts?

[Nero Cain]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=21265

[subgenius]

My cache
Here's a zip containing what I could recover from my cache or Google's cache. It's missing pages 2, 4, 5, and 9, and ends at post 419. It ain't pretty, but it's better than nothing.

According to the cache files, here's how the game stood:

subgenius-2 (vijay2vasandani, Battousai)

Akonas-2 (subgenius, triangle123)

Treznor-1 (Political Clout)

Ghidora-2 (Rix, vijay2vasandani)

That being said, I can't claim that I remember a ton about how the game was going, and the cache is a pain in the ass to read. As I recall, v2v is practically confirmed, mimi claimed gunsmith, which I found believable. As I recall I was voting Akonas out of a general sense that he was coasting while trying not to make any waves.

Concerning starting over with RVS but with two flips, I can't say I like the idea. The only way those flips will have any use is if we go through the trouble of seeing how people acted BEFORE those flips were known. I realize that it's a pain to go through the cache, but if we discard the previous day, it's like starting from scratch, except the town:scum ratio is even further stacked against town. I think we need to try our best to remember what happened day 1 and continue our reads accordingly.

And in that spirit:
VOTE: Akonas

[triangle123]

My memory's a bit fuzzy but I do strongly recall thinking Akonas was scum.

Vote: Akonas

.

I agree with subgenious that there's little point in starting over even though the cache is far from ideal. We may as well make the best of what we have.

[vijay2vasandani]

Um sub, you have me voting twice in your VC.. I remember that I had both as scum. But to make it clear.

VOTE: subgenius

I think I can remember Praetyre's reads off the top of my head but I'm going to keep it quiet for now.

[vijay2vasandani]

Oh and yeah, traingle is probably scum. Post 5 is driving me crazy. It feels so bad.

[triangle123]

Anything specific about it? I provided ample reasoning for my vote on Akonas in the cache, but I can pull it up if you want me to.

[vijay2vasandani]

Anything specific about it? I provided ample reasoning for my vote on Akonas in the cache, but I can pull it up if you want me to.

Right now its mostly gut. But yeah I'll look through my stuff if I wrote anything down. I remember talking to Praetyre about you.

[subgenius]

Um sub, you have me voting twice in your VC.. I remember that I had both as scum. But to make it clear.

VOTE: subgenius

I think I can remember Praetyre's reads off the top of my head but I'm going to keep it quiet for now.

My bad, I was editing the most recent vote count, and I apparently messed up, but at the time of the cataclysm, you were voting for Ghidorah, not me.

[Battousai]

Ok, we got some basis, so RVS start over is out (though, I can't read the cache).

From what I remember of sub, I'm still happy with my vote on him, so I'll vote him again

vote: subgenius

The vc posted by sub probably doesn't count as the real vc, so everyone should revote if they wish their vote to stay the same as the VC.

[subgenius]

Can you not download the file, or can you not view the contents?

[Akonas]

Anyone wanna remind me of anything interesting that happened that night? Do we know who the other mason(s) was (were)?
I remember wanting to

Vote: Drchrist

.

[subgenius]

Praetyre flipped miller mason, v2v claimed to be his partner, mimi claimed gunsmith with a clean investigation of v2v. V2V is the only remaining mason. That's about where we were. In my mind, both the day 2 claims were extremely credible.

[Battousai]

I can download it, I just can't read the cache.

[subgenius]

Hm, they open up fine for me with Chrome, although I'll admit the formatting is quite hideous.

[vijay2vasandani]

This game is dying. Where the peoples?

@ sub: explain your akonas read please.

@ triangle: its mostly gut. It seems like I can't get the old QT. I don't remember you expressing an Akonas-scum read. Can you remember why?

[triangle123]

I have to go to school in a minute or two but I remember somewhere in the cache, a little before I unvoted you during Day 2, I made a long post about why I think Akonas is scum. If you can't find it, I'll try to look when I get home.

[Nero Cain]

Akonas-2 (subgenius, triangle123)

subgenius-1 (vijay2vasandani)


It seems like we've lost a ton of people. I guess I'll start looking for replacements.

[subgenius]

This game is dying. Where the peoples?

@ sub: explain your akonas read please.

@ triangle: its mostly gut. It seems like I can't get the old QT. I don't remember you expressing an Akonas-scum read. Can you remember why?

A general impression that his posts were fluff without carrying a lot of meaning, i.e. insincere. I'll post Triangle's scum read of Akonas from the cache, which really made me realize what exactly was rubbing me the wrong way about Akonas.

Akonas comes across to me as the second scummiest player in this game, next to Vijay. He was one of the few players who didn't go along on the kdowns wagon, which could be a town indication, but doing a re-read of his iso, his reasons for thinking kdowns as town were not particularly convincing. In fact, a lot of what he said about kdowns was just rather confusing and seemed to be fence-sitting quite a bit. For instance, look at this post:

Akonas wrote:On a first read, kdowns came across as scummy because he didn't seem helpful and he seemed like he was "flailing", and I still don't not get that feeling. However, on a second read, I was thinking, "well, the L-3/L-2 thing could well have been an honest mistake, I should go back and look at it again." On a third read, I was thinking, "well, okay, I've seen players play like that just because that's their playstyle." I don't have a problem with lynching him; I just think there's more to look at and that if that's his playstyle, me lambasting, roasting or flambeeing him isn't going to accomplish much and I'd like to do a little more with Day 1 than just have a party on that wagon.

Still seems like scum or at least unhelpful, though.

It was a fairly long paragraph that didn't have that much content; he didn't even really conclude about whether or not he felt kdowns was scum or town. Later in that same post, he both said that kdowns is his top target (or at least a stronger target than Rix, who he had been voting for at the time) and that he would think kdowns is scum if only there weren't people who said his meta supports a town-kdowns in this game rather than a scum-kdowns.

Then, of course, there was the incident where he voted for Rix while fos'ing kdowns and Drchrist, and said that he did this essentially as a pressure vote although kdowns and Drchrist "stuck out" to him more. I don't have a problem with pressure votes as long as they're used as actual pressure votes and not an excuse, and the fact that Akonas never went into detail of what he learned from his vote on Rix makes me suspect it was the former.

Furthermore, most, if not all, of his posts are quoting people followed by one- or two-liners, without really stating anything substantial. Basically, he seems to have been skirting quite beneath the scenes.

[Battousai]

Akonas-2 (subgenius, triangle123)

subgenius-1 (vijay2vasandani)


It seems like we've lost a ton of people. I guess I'll start looking for replacements.

If we are missing so many people, I think the game should be cancelled (I think the count is up to 4-5/11). Also, I'm voting subgenius.

vote: subgenius

just to make sure it counts.

[Battousai]

Plus, I may have to drop unexpectedly too. My computer is acting up and there is a chance that it may go down for awhile.

[Akonas]

subgenius: I honestly found kdowns's play confusing. He was acting in a way that didn't seem to be helping town and I might call scummy, except that my gut told me he wasn't scum.

I don't see how that paragraph was scummy. Poorly written, perhaps, but I did several readthroughs, started out feeling like he was scum and ended up feeling like I was less sure. I didn't see him as an especially helpful player, so I wasn't that opposed to a lynch, but I didn't think it would be productive to lynch him outright, either.

Furthermore, most, if not all, of his posts are quoting people followed by one- or two-liners, without really stating anything substantial. Basically, he seems to have been skirting quite beneath the scenes.

My play did involve a lot of reaction-testing and acting based on gut reactions (hence some fairly flippant one-line responses). But umm... I don't think I've been skirting beneath the scenes.

[triangle123]

So what are some examples of information you gained from reaction-testing?