Good vs Evil, Law vs Chaos Reboot - Game Over, Good wins

[Lost Butterfly]

VOTE TAMMY

[Lost Butterfly]

j/k lol i'm not retarded

unvote

[Lost Butterfly]

we're pretty much v/la until mina goes back to canada as mafia is boring in comparison to alcohol (imo)

[Lost Butterfly]

also everyone should unvote cooldog because i said so (he's quite obviously town)

[Lost Butterfly]

Vote AV

Let's vote for one of the scum/shit players voting cooldog.

(also he has a wagon)

(sheep me I'm fucking great)

[Lost Butterfly]

ALSO MINA HAS TOLD ME SHE FEELS CONFIDENT OF SHADOWEH'S ALIGNMENT

I REPEAT SHE FEELS

CONFIDENT

NOT THAT SHE IS SHADOWEH'S ALT

NOT THAT

[Lost Butterfly]

someone come talk to me

[Lost Butterfly]

Tammy is town, Zdenek. Your argument with her was fucking dumb. It better not be still happening.

[Lost Butterfly]

ALSO MINA HAS TOLD ME SHE FEELS CONFIDENT OF SHADOWEH'S ALIGNMENT

I REPEAT SHE FEELS

CONFIDENT

NOT THAT SHE IS SHADOWEH'S ALT

NOT THAT

And that alignment would be?

(it's a joke)

(MOI asked if Shadoweh was a Mina alt)

[Lost Butterfly]

Hello Faraday, what's your read on Mastermind of Sin, and your opinions on his interaction with Tammy and myself? They're on recent pages, if you don't know.

Are you planning to read the whole thread?

MOS is probably town based on the early game I read. Don't have any opinion on his interactions with you or Tammy, don't really care as Tammy and him are probs both town.

Why would I not read the full thread? That'd be anti town - it's also pretty obvious I've at least been following along from my few posts so far. I'm V/la till Monday, though. I'll probably just keep posting and let Mina catch up in next Tuesday/Wednesday. Conferring in person is anti social.

[Lost Butterfly]

Can't find it? Like I said, it's after the first quote of 1413.

The scum factions both get NK's so I have a hard time swallowing this as a reason to not use your ability to check claims.

That is a hard core scumslip right there. Town DID NOT KNOW that both scumteams got kills every night. Hell, I was assuming they didn't, as that's pretty unbalanced. But hey, this is an experimental setup, so I'll forgive the mod that mistake, even though it's probably going to result in a scum win.

making set-up assumptions isn't a 'scumslip'. wow. also I assumed they could kill every night and I should know seacore's mod meta pretty well so.

[Lost Butterfly]

I don't remember a lot from him.

Did he claim early?

I should read him, regfan says he's easy to read.

[Lost Butterfly]

(I know he claimed early, but never saw what. What is it?)

[Lost Butterfly]

What do you think of that possible slip CooLDoG just brought up about how Pine didn't seem to consider the possibility of Chaotic Evil messing with his night action?

I'll take 'not a slip, but something that's fairly obvious', for 200.

[Lost Butterfly]

@all, I ask you this: Would town claim a power role with one vote on them? Would town refuse to use their power role optimally even after it has been explained countless times how it is best used? Would town lurk all of day one, only coming out when his name was called?

sure?

Pine will take care of himself.

Pine: Cooldog is town, get your vote off of him

could the people on the cooldog wagon explain why they're voting him?

When's deadline? I can't really read the full thread till Monday.

[Lost Butterfly]

(Also Pine's claim makes sense within the realms of the set-up. We'll realise eventually due to SET-UP SPEC if he's a cop anyway. People really shouldn't be voting him.

[Lost Butterfly]

also everyone should unvote cooldog because i said so (he's quite obviously town)

BUMP

this hasn't happened yet

[Lost Butterfly]

So my last post here was on page 56. And I've yet to do my work. (I've...been...busy. Largely doing the research which I've barely been able to use so far. )

I was intending to do, well, basically, a logical read on every player, with posts covering their play throughout the game. Not a standard TOWN SCUM NULL list from me, nor a run-through-the-playerlist-on-the-first-page-and-maybe-give-some-quick-reasoning-list. (You know, the <-- lists.) But a legitimate, honest, full-blown actual real logic (there's a difference between giving reasoning and giving logic ) post on all the players. (Something I've missed doing. I've given reasoning on players, but I've not given actual logic in nearly a year, to the point where I've got a reputation for being an illogical, irrational player. Not something to be proud of.)

...Mighta bitten off more than I can chew with that.

I'll give a quick summary, though. I've mostly been skimming the pages as of late, but more or less, I don't think my list will actually be changing that much. That is, with one exception--Pine.

I'll see if I can whip up better reasoning on him (preferably with good reasoning on the other key players today) later.

Sorry that my effort so far isn't working so well.

CooLDoG (6) - AurorusVox, Empking, trekker, Shadow1psc, Moneybags, mastin2

Spoiler: Not a spoiler

Your vote is bad

[Lost Butterfly]

Why are people reading me when I haven't posted anything substancial except for the obvious?

[Lost Butterfly]

Pine what form do you get your results in?

[Lost Butterfly]

Seacore: There's no deadline in your vc? Add one plz!

[Lost Butterfly]

AV ignoring cooldog being obvtown is SCUMMY

I agree!

[Lost Butterfly]

Yeah, Tammy's obvtown.

@Pine: Because I said so. Also his very first post where he started discussing 4 possible town teams or something (idr the exact details) is an obvious town tell and anyone saying different is super wrong. Also I'm pretty good at mafia and my gut reads are generally quite accurate. Pretty please?

[Lost Butterfly]

extra v/la for a day or 2 - doubt i'll have net access since not bringing my laptop

[Lost Butterfly]

Shadoweh can you fake suspect me a little bit? I get the feeling I'm going to get nightkilled

[Lost Butterfly]

Zdenek's obvtown too.

I'm making a list (Mina's checking it twice), we're gonna find out who's naughty or nice (or lawful or chaotic).

[Lost Butterfly]

It doesn't make sense to me for a townie to forget that they thought someone was scummy, and not understand why someone else would find them scummy enough to investigate. The change would make sense from someone making up his feelings as he's going along and sensing a weakness in the 'fake cop'.

that seems pretty null to me? Don't think scum are more likely to forget.

Zdenek's a bit more robotic as scum, anyway. He gets more engaged as town and hisd argument with Tammy looked pretty townish. Multi scum makes it tricky but even so.

[Lost Butterfly]

That's not how playing scum works. (At least not if you're semi competent). Especially in a game with another scum faction.

Should you be bantering with me when you suspect/ed my slot, though? I must admit I am perturbed

Mina

Shadoweh.

[Lost Butterfly]

Zdenek's cool. Look at his avatar.

brb

[Lost Butterfly]

Double kill on MOI seems the most likely option.

[Lost Butterfly]

Hi. Re-read the first 5 pages.

Av looks sorta town from it. Skenvoy looks super town. BBmolla wagon is probably dumb.

[Lost Butterfly]

Hi. Re-read the first 5 pages.

Av looks sorta town from it. Skenvoy looks super town. BBmolla wagon is probably dumb.

Wrong. BBmolla lurked, got called out on it, OMGUS'd his accuser, then went back to lurking. He's just trying to sit back until the heat goes away. Obvscum play.

Seems pretty null. (Also Mina totes said Skenvoy is town and she's sitting right beside me)

[Lost Butterfly]

That's a flimsy excuse. If it's PINE'S role, PINE should have thought how to best use it.

He should have at least realised that it's vital for scum to lie about their ethics, especially given the discussions in the pre-crash thread.

Who actually read the pre-crash thread? LoL...

Skenvoy aka BBmolla got confirmed town there by the moderator. Sorry!

[Lost Butterfly]

>_>

So the argument against lynching Mhork so far is that he looks like scum.
Great argument 10/10. Why are the rest of you not wanting to lynch Mhork?

Make a persuasive (read: funny) argument.

[Lost Butterfly]

That's a flimsy excuse. If it's PINE'S role, PINE should have thought how to best use it.

He should have at least realised that it's vital for scum to lie about their ethics, especially given the discussions in the pre-crash thread.

Who actually read the pre-crash thread? LoL...

Skenvoy aka BBmolla got confirmed town there by the moderator. Sorry!

^ this might be slightly stretching the truth of what happened but skenvoy definitely posted

[Lost Butterfly]

that last post convinced me you are town, I need to rethink my scumlist, get back to ya'll.

who the fuck are you? you can be town anyway I guess as this is a pretty cool post

[Lost Butterfly]

Anyway my V/la is over and stuff but

I'll get to this when I'm less tired. Mina will too. Probs.

[Lost Butterfly]

Jesus guys how many days have we got till Lynch?

I wish people woudl stop randomly calling others obvtown.

I wish we could all agree on a lynch.

The Pine lynch is by far the best one. None of his actions make sense.

AVox has been avoiding the thread. Tammy is doing as she has been doing from the start of teh game. Being scummy. But nobody wants to see that.

your face is obvtown

[Lost Butterfly]

then again BBMOLLA is avoiding this thread soooooooooo

skenvoy totes matched my thought process for the first 5 pages so idk

shadoweh I could lynch based on 'blah blah neutral' from what i've seen so far. could also be scum with ML based on something i don't remember which is nice

[Lost Butterfly]

Ah. Ooba has no posts. Wtf. Oh LMP was townish I guess. Cool town chesskid.
Ugh. There are like 10 people I don't think I've read a post from. TOMORROW.

[Lost Butterfly]

skenvoy totes matched my thought process for the first 5 pages so idk

Sigh... I don't understand how you don't realize why that means absolutely nothing, especially in this game.

Oh, sorry. I've never played multi scum before. Maybe you could explain the basics to me?

[Lost Butterfly]

do you have a read on bbmolla or is this just THEORY DISCUSSION

[Lost Butterfly]

(If it's the latter, don't worry - I got mad skillz)

[Lost Butterfly]

jesus christ. your iso is literally disgusting junpei. instead of trying to lecture me go fucking do something. yes this game is pretty terrible but who gives a fuck.


I don't even know who you replace so NO READ ON SLOT lol ._.

[Lost Butterfly]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p3946663
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p3946936

fyi those on pine are voting with THIS GUY WHO'S POSTS I LINKED. INCEPTION MAFIA.

[Lost Butterfly]

Not going to get my brizingre lynch, looks like. AV and I are both Town, so not supporting that. MoS has good points on BB.

I could vote him based on what I've read. Sum up notable stuff in the thread or just link to posts. I'm sure we can get a wagon if we use enough rhetoric, Pine.

[Lost Butterfly]

Ew.

[Lost Butterfly]

I've been sensible and logical? I guess I'm not trying hard enough.

Zdenek do you disagree with the list? I'm aware of your argument with Tammy, even accounting for multi scum I don't find her likely to be scum based on meta. Both heads of the hydra have played with her before and I've only seen one thing that gives me pause about her, which is pretty little in the grand scheme of things. I.e. who non tammy don't you like?

[Lost Butterfly]

Does anyone know if Rang Tangler was a newbie or an alt?

[Lost Butterfly]

Shadow why is cooldog scum? I forget and stuff, refresh my memory.

Them reasons for voting BBmolla certainly are reasons. They just happen to be pretty poor ones, oh well.

[Lost Butterfly]

How about no? Considering he's obviously town.

[Lost Butterfly]

LOL. did vezok hack your account? GTFO

[Lost Butterfly]

And Tammy's usually easyish to read, not for me in particular since I find her emotional play rather boring after a while but run a few votes on her and she flips the fuck out as town, most of the time - she has a hard time faking it as scum. Mina was quite confident in the read and I trust her ability to read Tammy + my own thinking she was town makes me feel pretty good.

[Lost Butterfly]

ugh this is annoying i have a fucking fever.

zdenek: what do you think of shadoweh backing off the read on zar? you said you found tammy scummy for it - given that she was involved in the conflict it makes more sense for her to re-evaluate and stuff. i don't like the fact that shadoweh's post was just basically bantering with a previous top suspect. I mean it's probably to do with the fact i'm super but even still.

did mastin post his long post yet. he's been posting elsewhere. this game has a deadline and his modded game is over now. you can leave new york for a while.

[Lost Butterfly]

If I were a vig I'd totally shoot mastin. /hint hint.

[Lost Butterfly]

I wonder how many other people look at this thread, see a page filled with Norman and look away. <_<

Why would a Bard have the ability to detect alignment? The only classes that have alignment detection are Clerics and Paladins. I really want to hate the claim. Thinking about how the setup works though, It's not really possible to fakeclaim Lawful or Chaotic alignment detecting without making yourself caught scum. Because we haven't mass-claimed alignments, scum would have a 50-50 shot of getting it wrong every time. There was no reason to out yourself like that if you're telling the truth Pine, there are two huge wagons and neither of them are on you. :/

Does it fit with DnD flavour to have Pine be some sort of scum detector? I only ask because you weirdly ignore this posibility when the role actually does kind of make more sense as a scum role (it's sort of useless for town, tbh)

[Lost Butterfly]

Also, I'd be surprised if seacore didn't have both teams killing every night tbh. We shall see.

Shadoweh is kind of scummy.
Cooldog is really town
I have a weird gut town read on trekker, though he'd probably troll like a spastic regardless but eh.
Y u no scum are slightly town for like one post very early on.
LMP looks townish
Still think Zdenek looks townish.
Less sold on ML scum with his posts in this thread - still found his posts in the other one bad
Shadow1 is also kinda scummy but his posts seem to be improving
i've no fucking idea how to read empking
mos is useless
greenknight is meh

i am giving reads woo. this is a real tough read.

[Lost Butterfly]

peregrine is in this game. that's a surprise. he has a monkey avatar so that's pretty cool

[Lost Butterfly]

No.

[Lost Butterfly]

You aren't.

##Unvote
##Vote: Foxace

List of scumreads = mediocre. The majority of them are people who at different points wanted you lynched. I'm willing to believe this is refuge in audacity seeing how well it worked for Norman. Basically the only wagon right now I think has a chance of being scum.

^ lack of convinction is SHOCKING

[Lost Butterfly]

I can't read any more of this in one sitting. bbl.

[Lost Butterfly]

lmao

[Lost Butterfly]

You aren't good enough to catch me as scum, as evidenced by our past games together and your general level of play. Your list of reads is quite frankly fucking embarassing. I'd not be surprised if they were all town, actually. Even if your scum your reads are still embarassing. Oh well, let's hope you get vigged.

CHESSKID, that's totally not a scum post at all. Come on.

[Lost Butterfly]

YOU'RE*

[Lost Butterfly]

ugh. so terrible.

I think if I was scum I'd just nightkill myself to get away from you and junpei.

[Lost Butterfly]

Also Shadoweh is probably scum.

Anyone want to flash wagon her to make her come out of the woodwork?

[Lost Butterfly]

Has anyone played with lord mhork before?

Is he always this 'Kumbaya' like?

[Lost Butterfly]

You aren't good enough to catch me as scum, as evidenced by our past games together and your general level of play. Your list of reads is quite frankly fucking embarassing. I'd not be surprised if they were all town, actually. Even if your scum your reads are still embarassing. Oh well, let's hope you get vigged.

how can you call your counterwagons town
just go like EH and then say fuck it

instead of picking out a new wagon

how can you do that?

I don't get the impression he gives a fuck about the game. My read is based on his predecessor.

[Lost Butterfly]

also I think Molla would be putting in a little more effort as scum. i dunno.

[Lost Butterfly]

original 5 pages aka the actual start of the game

[Lost Butterfly]

Eh the first half of Shadoweh's ISO looked pretttty bad and I was ready to cmoe in and speed wagon with you
but I saw effort in the second half, given you know #notaverygoodplayer

Hmm? I don't get the impression she's a poor player at all - I just think she's sort of scum sort of semi-phoning it in.

pedit: YEP but it doesn't take long. worth reading at least. it makes LMP look sorta town + other people I guess.

[Lost Butterfly]

If I were a vig I'd totally shoot mastin. /hint hint.

Why are you suggesting he be vigged rather than lynched, when you're currently looking for alternative lynches?

Vigs are cooler? Not really sure, it just appeals to be more.

[Lost Butterfly]

Do you really think that LB would replace in and immediately draw connections with his scum partners by calling them town?

I don't see why I wouldn't tbh. I know I go specifically out of my way as scum to often put my scum partners in the same category (e.g. I think in Rolling in the Deep I had both as 'probably scum' for my replacement period)

It's just that...anyone who thinks Zar/Tammy was scum on scum is kind of stupid, really.

[Lost Butterfly]

What makes Faraday town to you? You've with him before right?

fyi tammy has no history of reading me correctly but then again very few people do

this is the part where i'd post my scummy but it's not on lost butterfly (I just wanted to mention it tbh )

i don't actually think i look particularly town (but i tend to look more town as scum). i'm having a hard time sinking my teeth into the game. getting scumreads is really hard. i think it's somewhat due to the set-up, town know there are more people playing AGAINST their win con than with it and mostly due to the other factors

sorry. I swear I'm getting better at the whole alt thing.

[Lost Butterfly]

Eh. I didn't like nacho's first post either. there was a trekker post I felt looked town though.

bb can you put some fucking effort in here? it's annoying defending you if you don't help me catch scum + we can troll people like we do on skype mafia!

[Lost Butterfly]

Can we just lynch Trekker then? Please? I can only stand so much stupidity before I go on a rampage the sight of which will scar most players for the rest of their days.

can you stop being an elitist prick? you're being a total dick and making this game unenjoyable because your head is too far up your ass. learn the basics of catching scum before you run your mouth and declare yourself above everyone else, or bybthe time the game is over you'll look like a moronic asshole.

^ that one

[Lost Butterfly]

'I troll to take scum out of their comfort zone' is an amazing excuse

[Lost Butterfly]

Don't expect me to read Butterfly correctly btw.

Mina's not posting so we can dodge a nightkill she looks too obvtown. although killing girls isn't cool so that's a point in our favour.

[Lost Butterfly]

I haven't looked into them much tbh. I can sort of sympathise with Zdenek for finding her scummy because I can definitely see people finding her playstyle scummy.

I don't even know who else finds her scummy. Zdenek's activity looks town though. he actually seems like he's trying to find scum and put himself out there, 2 things I'd not expect of scum zdenek (although I know he's improved dramatically from asos but even so)

I've read till like page 32 or something and she didn't even get much heat then just a few pokes here and there.

[Lost Butterfly]

Man, I wish this game had the playerlist of Cyclic Experiment II; I would read 80 pages of that type of conversation for anyone, but instead I don't. Either way I will scumhunt; it was easier when I had to only investigate two people though (I picked the right choice, even if it seems to have been wrong).

On this page, Shadow's appeal to probability is bad but so is Tammys' interaction on her side of things.

pedit: *moan*...

can you sprinkle some fucking scumhunting in to your complaining.

[Lost Butterfly]

getting strong early reads reflects badly? lol

[Lost Butterfly]

It's also far easier to read people when they're not under pressure (most players, anyway)

[Lost Butterfly]

NO CHESSKID

VODKA IS A GO

[Lost Butterfly]

This post just inspired me to try harder in this game, that and Faraday's other "ass-in-mouth" posts on this page. Sorry to say but your laughable award and experience don't outweigh my analytical and cognitive skill set, get over yourself and learn how to post better.

I am an inspiration to many people.

zzzz as long as you try harder, I don't really give a fuck. How about you learn to give a fuck about the games you're in? And as for your analytical and cognitive skill set...lol, you aren't a particularly strong player from what I've seen but maybe you'll surprise me

[Lost Butterfly]

getting strong early reads reflects badly? lol

Yes, when you're using it to clear his scummy actions and ignore them.

Be more confident in your early reads!

[Lost Butterfly]

Anyway, I should stop trying to annoy Junpei and stuff.

Junpei: what reads do you have other than MOS as scum? I mean I think your reasons for finding him scummy are nonterrible it just strikes me as something MOS could easily do as town. Why do you think it makes him scum in this particular game? Have you much previous experience with him?

Hi Shadoweh.

[Lost Butterfly]

Unvote, vote Shadoweh

[Lost Butterfly]

If there's anything in particular people want me to read for during my read through let me know within the next hour or so.

Hyperion

by Dan Simmons is a really good sci-fi book. I'd be interested in your thoughts on it.

[Lost Butterfly]

@Shadoweh: I mean at least he's here.

Also was there a case on Shadoweh somewhere? I've skimmed the last 5 pages and haven't seen it. Sorry V_V;;

Independent thought.

[Lost Butterfly]

Awesome, Moneybags is town. I don't think scum will have daytalk, here.

[Lost Butterfly]

Hey gurl, I've apologised for that. Please don't let my cider rage put you off, it was harsh and I swore a lot and I didn't mean to be nasty. Look, I'm sure you're absolutely lovely and not a bitch at all, but that counts for nothing in this game where you're trying to kill me

your whole drunk posting thing looks over the top. do you drunk post as town? links, plz.

[Lost Butterfly]

Because it's day 2 in a large theme where tons of replacements can hide behind the re-reading excuse to be lurky scum, and everyone actually putting forth effort is at ends with eachother.

Who, specificially?

[Lost Butterfly]

Btw we can lynch shadoweh now. I think she's scum.

Kondi didn't look like his town self.
AV's still scummyish and will vote there at deadline.

Haze and Peregrine are pretty much garbage. Brizingre is 'eh' but I saw a few minor town tells, he could be just slightly competent scum.

[Lost Butterfly]

Cooldog isn't getting lynched, Shadow. Switch your vote.

[Lost Butterfly]

Faraday, do you think a mechanic such as "If Chaotic Town is lynched during the day then Lawful Evil don't get a night kill and only Chaotic Scum does" might be in play here because while I realize this is two separate games going on at one time the fact that there's just one lynch throws the balance out of it completely.

Eh. Never really considered anything like that. I mean it's possible but it feels a bit 'meh' to me.

[Lost Butterfly]

Up to page 70 but can't keep my eyes open anymore. Going to sleep, should have my entire list of reads and thoughts up in 10ish hours though.

Also Lost Butterfly, I want a full list of reads up from you guys asap.

Don't really have a full list?

I thought I already said who I thought was town.
Cooldog, Moneybags, chesskid3, Norman, Tammy and Zdenek are all fairly strong town reads. Oh and BBmolla.
trekker is a weak town read. Feysal is a meh town read - the case on MOI seems too weird for scum to pull out, in all honesty. I kind of believe Pine's role claim but you said you can read him so that should work anyway. Reasons for all of those on request, I guess but they're all pretty obvious I think.

The rest I could probably lynch? Well MOS looks townish in parts too, actually.
Shadoweh looks neutral in a scummy way.
Av doesn't look town which isn't what I expect.

I found shadow1's response to your nightkill thing kind of townish, actually. Not really in the mood to be able to sort through it much clearer than that.

[Lost Butterfly]

It's kind of obvious, Junpei. Might as well let the man himself explain it, though.

[Lost Butterfly]

Anyway, less mechanics more LISTS plz regfan.

[Lost Butterfly]

Peregrine is probably scum. He's been posting a fair amount in other games but not here. He did the same as scum in Dram's bastard and we lynched him for it.

[Lost Butterfly]

Yes that was some ONE GAME META ._.

[Lost Butterfly]

He did the same as scum in Dram's bastard and we lynched him for it.

Then why would he do it again here?

I don't get the impression he's a particularly strong scum player.

[Lost Butterfly]

He probably just tends to post in his town games more? There are lots of players like that, who are aware of it and yet still can't fix it. Ether's a great example of someone who knows she's not good at scum yet can't fix it because she hates being scum that much.

[Lost Butterfly]

Um, no? If you switch to shadoweh they're 5-5, if you switch to AV they're 5-5. The votecount being what it is ...I mean yeah, it's not a reason to lynch BB at all. That's just silly.

[Lost Butterfly]

Just sheep my vote.

[Lost Butterfly]

Replacements are doing well considering I've not even read the whole game and I've been here from the start.

fyi that just makes you terrible

But vote Shadoweh and all will be forgiven for today!

mod feel free to delete the above post by my main

[Lost Butterfly]

Yes. I'm trying to dodge the NK. I already said this. Given the way this game is going that's pro town. I doubt I'll succeed, anyway. Given the playerlist there's only so long I could go and expect to live. Anyway keep suspecting me, it might keep me alive.

Zar replacing out is totally a town tell fyi.

[Lost Butterfly]

That's an incredibly simple way of looking at it, Regfan. I'm probably not going to convince you, though. Looking townier than needed is overrated and just gets you killed before you can have a large impact on the game. Anyway, I'm not in danger of getting lynched any time soon so we can put this conversation off for a bit.

And I totally made that up. Zar does prefer scum though, probably less likely to replace out of a scum slot. + I thought he looked town by virtue of the fact he was attacking tammy before I replaced in.

+ I don't think I could go less than 100% as scum.

(P.s. Moneybags should totally be on your town list - the unpromted VT claim is super townish)

[Lost Butterfly]

(also in fairness I think the one game we were both town in you found my play scummy until Mina posted)

[Lost Butterfly]

Anyway I agree with most of your reads, sort of. Not the ordering probably. BB and Cooldog look towniest to me but w/e. I also don't really have a read on Haze.

Can you elaborate on what you found town about kondi? He seems less engaged with the game than I've seen when he's been town, in the past. I mean yes he flaked but even when he was posting it felt like he wasn't trying, here.

[Lost Butterfly]

HAZE

Vote Shadoweh.

PLEASE.

Greenknight you too. Shadow1 should do it too.

Molla put a fucking vote on the viable counterwagon. Let's go.

[Lost Butterfly]

My previous statement stands; I'm willing to put down my vote on the lead wagon come deadline, I'm just not doing it before a claim. I obviously expect a VT claim, but you never know with lurky people.

Pick a wagon. Shadoweh or BBmolla. Leaving it to see which is biggest is a massive fucking cop out.

[Lost Butterfly]

I don't understand why Lost Butterfly would tell me about Tammy never reading Faraday correctly when they've never played together when Faraday's been scum.

Well, not on a forum. AIM chat mafia + skype mafia is what I'm going from, on memory.

[Lost Butterfly]

possibly correct vc

CooLDoG (3) -

Nachomamma8, Moneybags, Shadow1psc

AurorusVox (3) -

, Feysal, BBmolla, greenknight

Pine (3) -

mastin2, Lord Mhork, TiphaineDeath

BBmolla (6) -

Mastermind of Sin, Empking, AurorusVox, Pine, CooLDoG, Shadoweh

Mastermind of Sin (1) -

Junpei

Regfan (1) -

PeregrineV

mastin2 (1) -

chesskid3
Shadoweh (6) -

Zdenek, Tammy, Lost Butterfly, brizingre1, regfan, Haze

24 alive, 13 to lynch. People on the one person wagons need to pick a bigger wagon. Pine isn't being lynched, so the people voting there are wasting their vote too. Cooldog also won't be vote. At least AV has some chance of being lynched, so w/e I guess.

[Lost Butterfly]

He claimed Choatic Good. The fact that he's uncc'd Bard means if he's scum he's Choatic Evil.

We're not guaranteed there is a bard in the game, are we?

That aside the rest of it makes sense.

[Lost Butterfly]

Peregrine do you intend to put your vote somewhere useful?

[Lost Butterfly]

Shadoweh. Let's go.

[Lost Butterfly]

Shouldn't you like suspect my slot far more than you seem to then? Whatever. He knows you get OMGUSY, don't see why you think he'd bother attacking you as scum. Calling you town (like I'm doing) would be a much easier way to get you on side.

Me.

[Lost Butterfly]

(also in fairness I think the one game we were both town in you found my play scummy until Mina posted)

Why isn't Mina posting?

I assume she doesn't want to. She's also not read more than 5 pages of the thread as far as I know.

Iso purposes.

[Lost Butterfly]

Oh. Why'd you pick Molla over Shadoweh?

[Lost Butterfly]

Fuck you regfan for even questioning why I'd want to avoid being nightkilled given the game state.

[Lost Butterfly]

KAY.

Greenknight put your vote on shadoweh. You too TiphaineDeath.

[Lost Butterfly]

(Gertrude is viewing this forum *waves* if you see this)

[Lost Butterfly]

Nacho 4 scum btw. Never forget.

[Lost Butterfly]

Ah. Had this game on the brain.

First thing is first: Eh on Shadoweh's claim. A doctor fits seacore mod meta and some of the things's she has asked fit with a doc too.

I'm more concerned about BB's claim tbh. I still think he's town but:
From a set-up POV if he's town we have 2 apparent roleblockers.
The one who blocked Pine and BB. That's a little inelegant.
There's also him no actioning which i REALLY don't fucking get.
Also both him and Shadoweh are Lawful Good, apparently. That's 2 protective roles on that side of the town, would the other then have another 2. (I'm sort of tempted to massclaim tomorrow...but)

Regfan: thoughts on that? I have at least a plausible set-up reason for the last point but etc

Blah. On the other hand his claim is so fucking bad he's probably telling the truth. Why not invent a roleblock target if he's the blocker who blocked Pine? Strong chance of hitting a VT anyway, if not he outs a PR on the way down.

About the 'Hold Person', thing. Did Pine or Shadoweh mention anything like that? Do you guys HAVE any sort of flavour name like that?

I really hate mastin's play the more I read. He doesn't actually seem to be trying to push his Pine lynch at all. Honestly it looks like kind of shitty distancing except for I think Pine has a decent chance of being town.

[Lost Butterfly]

It depends on how idiotic the town is in lynching obvious town. Why me over BBmolla all of a sudden?

Hi. Anything useful to add other than LOL I'M DOC

[Lost Butterfly]

WAIT.

SHE PROTECTED TAMMY

OVER MAGUA?

[Lost Butterfly]

I mean that's just silly. (Sure it'd have failed but)

[Lost Butterfly]

Blehhhhhh. Still thinking over the claim. Ugh. Gonna go relax for a bit and come back and read.

[Lost Butterfly]

I haven't unvoted. TROLOL.

[Lost Butterfly]

(greenknight's reaction looks pretty town, I think)

[Lost Butterfly]

2) I don't think the PRs are identical on Lawful/Chaotic, I think that'd be too breakable with a mass-claim so I don't think 2 protective roles on one side means the same for the other, with that said 2 protective-ish claims on one side seems a lot. I believe BB's claim though which leads towards Shadoweh being the fake one and Green is actually right about Shadoweh's comment being something that makes little sense to actually do as a doc since if Tammy was actually shot at then the scum-team would insta-know that Shadoweh is doc. It actually makes a great deal more sense as a pre-planned fake breadcrumb from scum.

Not identical but both town's are going to have similar power levels and both scum teams similar power levels (with different pr's), I think.

[Lost Butterfly]

Also for what it's worth I very much see LB-Briz being scum together, Briz called Rigs/Zar (LB's predecessors) scum but never voted them, never really mentined LB other than to put them on their town list and LBs only mention of Briz is saying he's 'eh' and has some minor town tells with none pointed out nor no response to my strong scum read on him.

A little low level for my liking. I'm not boring enough to slot my scumbuddies on a neutral read

[Lost Butterfly]

Shadoweh has 7
Molla has 11 by my count

more shadoweh votes and all that

[Lost Butterfly]

I guessthe alternative is to speed lynch nacho scum without a claim. But not confident we can get the numbers given the activity here.

[Lost Butterfly]

I don't think this is a choice that should be based on outguessing mod flavor.

It's not, though. What do you think of the likelihood of shadoweh doc claiming doc to the scumteam?

[Lost Butterfly]

Boring question. No thanks.

[Lost Butterfly]

lol @ not remembering who you replaced.

guess you're just a damn townie who doesn't give a fuck about anything but DA SCUM HUNTING.

[Lost Butterfly]

but it would be nice if you could do me a teeny tiny favor and not be cool and distant for bravado purposes. think of the children, after all.

KAY HOLD ON

[Lost Butterfly]

Faraday, I don't understand how your scum read on Nacho is strong enough to be willing to blitz lynch him while claiming to have a gut town read on his predecessor.

yes because that's something that i'm actually going to do and not pointless rhetoric. RELAX

[Lost Butterfly]

I could just use lots of rhetoric, make you fakeclaim, wait for a counterclaim and BAM?

But sure, let's pretend you're not scum. I didn't really attack your predecessor (trekker) as I had a very mild town read on him, also he wasn't really a priority as he was being replaced/had flaked when I replaced in and there were more important things to deal with like a shitty wagon on Cooldog + I was V/la. Anyway, I didn't particularly like your first post. You seem kind of lazy so far, and Nacho town is definitely not lazy whereas Nacho scum is. I'd have expected more here with the imminent deadline had you been town *shrug*

None of your posts really give me the sense you're trying hard to figure things out. But anyway don't nightkill me plz, + Mina has to post before we die or she might be sad.

MEANT TO SUBMIT THIS A FEW MINUTES AGO BUT FORGOT

[Lost Butterfly]

@LB - 1) I agree with Greenknights reaction to all of this being very town. As for Mastins vote on Pine I actually think what's more likely then it being distancing is that Mastin legitimately believes that Pine is alternate-scum-team player and thinks he can get some sort of town-cred by voting him.

He's not pushing the wagon super hard, which is why I didn't think this.

[Lost Butterfly]

I checked, and Faraday never takes a real stance on Pine; there is no precedent here.

I have said a few times that town is a town read, albeit not a very strong one.

2) His other reasons for not believing the claim are terrible: "FOUR PRs in a 26 player game!?!", "Why would BBmolla noaction other than for the reason he stated?"
[/quote
My issue would be with 4 protective roles, not 4 PR's. That's abundantly clear from context too. And well if BBmolla was scum he'd not have no actioned would he? It was fairly obvious that's what I was getting at.

More Shadoweh votes.

[Lost Butterfly]

Why would town BBmolla say this? I think that it is him cushioning his claim because he is nervous about it.

Because it's a shitty claim. No actioning is actually fairly horrible if true, imo. It's the type of thing that I could conceviably see myself hammer if I had little read on BBmolla.

[Lost Butterfly]

It doesn't read fake to me. No idea what the rest of your sentence is even saying. Probably not important, anyway.

AND LUCKY FARADAY ISN'T IN THIS GAME, THEN.

[Lost Butterfly]

Shadow1 hammer shadow2.

[Lost Butterfly]

Junpei why is Faraday scum

I already said I didn't want to be nk'd. Only scum would want that in multi scum. Come on.

[Lost Butterfly]

LYNCHER WIN.

[Lost Butterfly]

Faraday is scum because he knows Pine is telling the truth; or at least he is scum and Pine is not scum with him and so assumed he was telling the truth.

or I believe his claim and believe he's telling the truth

can you go back to lurking. it was better than you actively posting.

[Lost Butterfly]

Anyway.

I have no stake in this now. My lyncher victory has been fullfilled. Nice playing with you. This was pretty ez. (No but seriously someone actually hammer)

[Lost Butterfly]

Town and scum roleblocker isn't particularly uncommon.

BBMOLLA: roleblock the scum kill tonight.

[Lost Butterfly]

In fact since you're a WIZARD roleblock both of them.

[Lost Butterfly]

Yes. Mina said you're to hammer.

[Lost Butterfly]

If I die:
Junpei is scummy. He's only got active around deadline with fairly shit obervations.
Nacho is readable I'm just not sure how many of you I have faith to read him. Whatever. Don't let him lurk. He prefers town, if he's making sense then whatever.
Greenknight has moved to a stronger town read. I quite like his posting around shadoweh. Looks like town who spotted a fakeclaim from the tone.
Other strong town reads are still town.
Mastin looks like he threw darts at a board for one of his scumteams. There are possible non scum reasons for this but he could be just scum.
Still no fucking read on Empking. Maybe town by POE since there's a lot of iffy people + he looks townier to me as scum but eh I dunno.

[Lost Butterfly]

as for brizingre

#141 and #8 in ISO looks slightly townish to me. I didn't read regfan's case on him or anyone particularly closely.

first post of the new thread is slightly scummy. I'll just leave him at 'eh'

[Lost Butterfly]

jesus christ junpei's an obnoxious cunt

[Lost Butterfly]

jesus christ junpei's an obnoxious cunt

i typod and meant runt. no need for a warning mod lolol

[Lost Butterfly]

why you busting mah gambit sirrah

not really sure. wanted an actual hammer asap.

[Lost Butterfly]

Don't scum usually get inactive around deadline to avoid situations like this?

and i haven't really noticed a correlation. they only tend top drop off if the lynched person is online as it can be awkard. other than that well there's no real difference.

[Lost Butterfly]

why you busting mah gambit sirrah

not really sure. wanted an actual hammer asap.

Because you actually were fooled.

you think chesskid's hammer gambit fooled me

[Lost Butterfly]

junpei should answer my question. it might be alignment relevant.
^

[Lost Butterfly]

CHESSKID. Am I obvtown or just sorta town atm? People are talking about lynching me and I'm worried not playing mafia has made me rusty ._.

[Lost Butterfly]

Haha. How embarrassing for you.

[Lost Butterfly]

Anyway.

I have no stake in this now. My lyncher victory has been fullfilled. Nice playing with you. This was pretty ez.

(No but seriously someone actually hammer)

you're right i definitely fell for it junpei. great stuff from you as per usual.

[Lost Butterfly]

> 10 minute response time. Ouch. Nice cover.

[Lost Butterfly]

Tiphanie/Tammy/Zdenek/Chessskid/Greenknight/Pine/Cooldog/BBMolla are town.

Feysal/Haze/Lord/Empking/Nacho/Shadow1/Pere are weaker town reads, much weaker.

MoS/Junpei/Moneybags I don't lean either way on.

Briz/LB/AV/Mastin are probably scum. Moreso LB/Briz together then the other two.

Night all!

We have like pretty much the same lists yet you still think I'm scum. YOU WOUND ME. Well not really, expected/10. I'll bodyguard you tonight I guess, if you want.

[Lost Butterfly]

^ don't ever lynch this guy plz

[Lost Butterfly]

> 10 minute response time. Ouch. Nice cover.

..? Sorry if I don't sit at the computer and spam f5 all the time for you Faraday; if you're curious I'm waiting a few hours before I head out, and am burning time every now and again by shooting free throws. Nice indirect response, this conversation about your wounded ego is over though.

I have never pressed f5 on a computer in my life. ._.

Wasn't curious. Where you going? I'm probably gonna drink vodka with a few friends and watch MATCH OF THE DAY highlights, Junpei. I feel this helped us bond. Do you feel the love?

[Lost Butterfly]

Peregrine/Junpei/Mastin/Nacho/Av

We'll probably lynch one of these today.

So was Lord Mhork an idiotic vig kill or an idiotic scum kill?

[Lost Butterfly]

P.s. regfan you being alive makes me non scum. Owned.

[Lost Butterfly]

Investigated chesskid, roleblocked. On my way to practice, post later

lol @ this investigation choice.

[Lost Butterfly]

What's a 'cleric' in dnd terms? Is there any obvious power role they would be?

[Lost Butterfly]

VOTE: Regfan

don't get this.

[Lost Butterfly]

Vote: Mastin

[Lost Butterfly]

Pine is not any closer to getting himself off the deathlist since yesterday.

FARADAY

NACHO IS MUCH MORE LIKELY TO BE SHADOWEH BUDDY THAN NON
YES?

Not sure. Probably? Nacho/Av/Mastin/Junepi/Peregrine are all good lynches. Not aiming for a specific faction. Let's just lynch all the scum in a row, I guess. We should all still win and stuff.

[Lost Butterfly]

Not aiming for a specific faction.

well I am but etc

[Lost Butterfly]

vote BBmolla

Faraday please post less.. 2403 is basically an "I don't know and I don't care" post; why even respond if that's the case? 2404 is nonsensical.

You'll be lynched soon, don't worry about it.

[Lost Butterfly]

(Actually less snarkily, 2404 has a purpose.)

[Lost Butterfly]

Same, Zdenek. Or AurousVox.

[Lost Butterfly]

I'm probably just going to get straight to the point and ask if mastin is claiming cop. Because that'd be cool and I'd enjoy a 1/1 in all honesty.

[Lost Butterfly]

I think Faraday asked what a cleric was? I don't know I think someone did, I'm not going to go back and look. But, in D&D set up, in case it hasn't been answered, the Cleric is typically the primary healer. *sigh* No wonder Greenknight was so convinced that Shadoweh was fake claiming.

That was my guess, that he was a protective role. Eh, I think she could have been lynched anyway but healer's a weak role so whatever.

[Lost Butterfly]

In this particular game it's a good idea to not reveal too much about that type of thing anyway, I think.

Cool.

[Lost Butterfly]

I'm more interested in Av scum than Junpei. I don't really like connection based scumhunting, though. It's quite easy for competent players to tie false strings to townies and leads to a not much better sucess rate than random chance when misapplied.

[Lost Butterfly]

Don't like Feysal's vote at all. Seemed half hearted at best. Don't think he looks particularly good and don't like the fact apart from the early theory discussion he's been less of a presence in this thread - he's really good at being able to talk theory but I don't think his scum game is as strong as his town game outside of that and I'm seeing stuff I think is more likely feysal scum than town.

AV/Nacho are still kind of meh. I actually thought AV looked really bad at the end of yesterday *shrug*. Nacho less so, but still scummy by POE? Or something. I need to talk my suspects through with Mina, to see which ones she agrees with and doesn't - particularly Junpei for fairly obvious reasons.

I actually don't hate mastin's post, surprisingly. It does make my eyes agog that he thinks he's a priority nightkill in this game. I mean I certainly wouldn't kill him as scum because he had a scum read on me, he has very little credibility within the town.

Pine's night actions continue to be very fucking stupid. They're starting to worry me. What do you think of them, Regfan? The CHESSKID investigation is hella dumb. I remember him faking retarded night actions in AFFC, too, as scum.

[Lost Butterfly]

Me confirming whether or not you roleblocked me does NOT clear me of being mafia. It only tells you if I'm a PR or not.

Okay, so at least you're not saying you weren't roleblocked.

P.s. mason vigs from different towns would have been so cool in this game. (1-shot vig, maybe or even 2-shot. Town needs a boost if scum have a nightkill each and mason vigs from different towns would be cool )

We're not lynching Cooldog. Stop being such a fucking scumbag peregrine and just change your vote shadow.

[Lost Butterfly]

BB: who do you think fits the 'dumb scum'; argument for blocking Pine. Bear in mind they'd probably have to be 2 dumb people at least. (Indirect way for you to insult the playerlist )

[Lost Butterfly]

ITT, Cooldog admits he's only hunting for one scumteam and is therefore scum himself.

But probably Lawful Evil, and I'd rather lynch Chaotic Evil BBMolla first.

SPOILER: No.
we're not lynching cooldog. ever.

i'm not sure when people are going to get it. most of the people who are lynching him seem to be those off the scum wagon yesterday. yes of course that's meaningless but I couldn't resist an opportunity to lord it over you.

And yes, Moneybags is obvtown.

Not seeing shadow1 scum, really. Will try and get Mina to post over the weekend, regfan. Don't hold your breath. Don't worry she'd be posting if we were scum anyway, I'd love to try manipulate her tells to look town.

[Lost Butterfly]

hey regfan why do you have a town read on nacho? or a better read. i don't get it. has he even posted anything of value ever?

[Lost Butterfly]

CD wanting to lynch one scumteam is not scummy since, y'know, everyone is more interested in seeing their direct opponents die.

Yeah, whomever brought this up is dumb.

Other stuff probably needs my attention but I don't have much motivation right now. I'll get to this Sunday.

[Lost Butterfly]

Unvote, vote Nacho

[Lost Butterfly]

No ETA on a Mina post! Possibly never? I don't know.

[Lost Butterfly]

I think we've found our lynch for tomorrow.

yeah the guy who replaced norman is obvscum

[Lost Butterfly]

...With a wagon like this, I can tell you it definitely makes me want to say he's town.

elaborate on this more with specifics and all that. we'll ignore the fact that in multi scum this is literally the most stupid fucking argument anyone can make for the purpose of this exercise

[Lost Butterfly]

I could probably vote Briz I guess. But won't atm because I'm voting Nacho and he's V/la which makes it awesome.

[Lost Butterfly]

No ETA on a Mina post! Possibly never? I don't know.

What did you do with her.

Hassle her to post for me please!

Also my current reads;

[Town]

Tammy - Tiph - Zdenek - Chesskid - Cooldog - BBmolla - Money - Pine - MoS ------ Empking -- Shadow1 -- Nacho [Junpei - Haze - AVox]- Feysal - LB ----- Pere --- Mastin ----- Briz -

[Scum]

these are mostly my reads except MOS isn't as town as this. also haze is more to the right.

I like the way peregrine is being so useless he's getting ignored.

[Lost Butterfly]

I've already hassled. I don't even think she's read the game fully. Hopefully once this Team Mafia stuff calms down she'll be able to do it but I won't hold my breath <_< this feels like test of faith.

[Lost Butterfly]

earlier today mastin's reads were so shit he did a complete 180

and now he's confident enough again. (also lol @ a former scumread being a reason to avoid a wagon? and you had a scum read on this slot yesterday, remember all your reads were wrong)


he doesn't feel like someone who's changed his stances because of not being nightkilled but someone who saw a convenient opportunity to switch. or maybe it's what chesskid said actually idrk.

or something

wow.

[Lost Butterfly]

@Zdenek -

Tammys playstyle drives a lot of people crazy, including myself.

Thanks, man.

How do you feel about being lynched tomorrow?

[Lost Butterfly]

Kinky.

[Lost Butterfly]

EBWOP:

The above was Mina.

[Lost Butterfly]

This is boring.

Telling Pine he's using his role in an idiotic manner is fairly productive, tbh.