Mini 1337 - Elite Mafia (Game Over)


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Post Post #100 (ISO) » Tue May 22, 2012 7:52 pm

Post by snifit »

Votecount 1.4


roflcopter (0) -
Arugula (0) -
TeChNoWC (L-6) - Arugula
Thomith (L-5) - absta101, Milk
Milk (L-3) - MormonCoffee, Phenenas, Seacore, roflcopter
Seacore (0) -
UnofficialRulerOfEveryone (0) -
DTMaster (0) -
Humble Poirot (L-6) - UnofficialRulerOfEveryone
SensFan (L-6) - DTMaster
absta101 (0) -
Phenenas (0) -
MormonCoffee (0) -

Not Voting: Humble Poirot, SensFan, Thomith, TeChNoWC

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.
Last edited by snifit on Thu May 24, 2012 10:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #101 (ISO) » Tue May 22, 2012 10:05 pm

Post by TeChNoWC »

In post 99, Seacore wrote:Thomith's tone looks a lot more like his scum game than his town game. He's more aggressive as town. In this game and his scum game he seems a lot more timid, he statements are qualified a lot more like his read of Milk.

I don't know, I've never really played with meta before, but something Thomith is doing is striking me as 'very careful' in the way scum play.


Do have any meta examples?
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Post Post #102 (ISO) » Wed May 23, 2012 3:35 am

Post by SensFan »

Humble Poirot and DTM, I can answer both of your questions together. I frankly don't think that there's been a whole lot in this game that is telling of alignment. I certainly never meant to imply that I had any sort of read on Seacore; it's significant but I don't know how or why yet. All I know is that when the only things of note in 4 pages are two fairly inconsequential spats, it's worth noting if the same person is involved in both.
(11:04:10 PM) senspizzaline: That's actually my bold prediction for the year
(11:04:19 PM) senspizzaline: Miami finishes 2nd in the AFCE.
(11:05:35 PM) jhawk01b: my bold prediction for the year is that whoever wins the NFC West will have a winning record
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Post Post #103 (ISO) » Wed May 23, 2012 5:35 am

Post by Thomith »

i tend to be tentative early game unless i find something worth an attack, which i really haven't yet.

Tech i think i am being meta'd on the examples i have given, but that is only one example of both plays, so imo it isn't really enough to form a read on.
thomith could be a court jester

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Post Post #104 (ISO) » Wed May 23, 2012 6:32 am

Post by roflcopter »

In post 98, TeChNoWC wrote:your posts contain short jabs and psuedo-questions aimed at players I have townreads on that sound like the lead up to a portfolio of bussing tactics and potential scumreads that aren't scumreads at all, but reads to fall back on when voting for someone.

um, what? what is a pseudo-question, and how do the things i've asked qualify as pseudo-questions and not just, you know, questions?
why do you have townreads on these players (and which ones specifically are your townreads)?
how is it a "portfolio of bussing tactics" if i've been "pseudo-questioning" your town reads?
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Post Post #105 (ISO) » Wed May 23, 2012 11:46 am

Post by Seacore »

In post 103, Thomith wrote:i tend to be tentative early game unless i find something worth an attack, which i really haven't yet.

Tech i think i am being meta'd on the examples i have given, but that is only one example of both plays, so imo it isn't really enough to form a read on.


Which is why I haven't quite changed my vote.

Your tone this game has a 'friendly, slightly over-eager' flavour that I see in some players. My concern is that you have that same tone in the scum game you sent me, but in the town game you sent me it's nowhere near as present.

At this point I'd be willing to lynch you today, but not enough to champion your wagon
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Post Post #106 (ISO) » Wed May 23, 2012 11:50 am

Post by Seacore »

In post 102, SensFan wrote:Humble Poirot and DTM, I can answer both of your questions together. I frankly don't think that there's been a whole lot in this game that is telling of alignment. I certainly never meant to imply that I had any sort of read on Seacore; it's significant but I don't know how or why yet. All I know is that when the only things of note in 4 pages are two fairly inconsequential spats, it's worth noting if the same person is involved in both.



unvote Vote sensfan


this is totally enough to vote for.
"interesting" "significant" "worth noting" these are terms of somebody who is trying to fling mud and look like they're scum hunting without getting involved.

If something doesn't help you determine alignment, it's not worth noting.
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Post Post #107 (ISO) » Wed May 23, 2012 4:32 pm

Post by DTMaster »

K Final DTManalysis. Sorry for the lateness since work and soreness from the gym and all.

@Milk/Thomith Page 2-3 Stuffs.
It took a few rereads but looking at Milk's POV: The vote and the RQS statement are independent things. It took me a few re-reads but there seems to be some blending of both RQS arguments with the votes assuming you take Milk's side. I can agree on a theory standpoint how how RQS is not scummy but makes Milk view their play differently. These cues are best used for meta - alignment link analysis.

I'm ok for the stance that RQS is fluffy (hence my original post this game) which leads to fruitless advances. I'm ok with Milk's reasoning with player trend analysis. But otherwise I find these pages more about mafia theory and less about actual interactions. It doesn't seem to be a strong argument for this early case.

However I dislike Thomith's followup to his Milk vote. Particularly the "cautious" reasoning of Mormon. I was fine with him following a person's case if he felt that it's a good one. I'm not fine when Thomith's Mormon analysis because to me when I read between the lines it doesn't seem like a person should be convinced by a cautious person's vote. If a person has a good case I would be more suspect of the lack of voting (i.e Mormon) because this could be an early bus attack link (i.e Mormon-bork) or something fishy like that. Seeing how Thomith admitted that there should be doubt in Mormon's character I see this more of someone latching on to a case in a lazy manner, which is scummy in my eyes.

@Mormon
This post is scummy to me. Mainly because caution at this stage of the game shouldn't be an issue with exception to L-1 quick votes. Which it in self is informative. For a game of this caliber I expect town to be more competent to avoid quick hammers. Thus if a quick hammer occured on an early day 1 wagon, we actually narrow down the pool for scum targets (or should be able to) since only scum would push a wagon so fast.

Like wise if we do run up a powerrole, the need to claim isn't present for this stage of the game. That person won't be lynched because I expect town to recognize the context of the wagon (i.e. early day 1).

Finally if we do have town that sheep wagons like so, we have more serious problems then outing PRs since our day play would be severely compromised due to player style in game rather then any other repercussions of losing PRs. In other words scum would play to be the leaders of this kind of crowd since that's far stronger then lynching PRs.

So this comment pings on my scumdar for the above reasons. Caution at this stage really isn't necessary for competent town. Reaction tells garnered by this phase will set up a solid foundation for future reads and the later phases.

@URoE
Town read for the following reasons:
a. Actually using my question as a basis for pressure attacks on Humble. I was looking to see how people would handle it and to me this is kind of a unique way to attack someone (i.e scum hunt).
b. Gut reads/vibes from defending Aragua on Page 2.

@Techno
a. Twitchy? I'm impressed that you could see my physical body writhing awkwardly from some text on an internet forum. (/bad joke) That aside I'm confused to why the scum read in particular. Details please.

b. Aside from that I noticed a scummy activity.
You failed to follow up on Roflcopter
. Between your Post 63 here to Roflcopter's post of questions on page 4 here and yourresponse here later that day I noticed you
failed to follow up on your very own scum case
. Townies care about their own cases. Townies don't forget when someone fails to answer the question. This is scummy since you didn't follow up on your own case.

THIS REEKS OF DISTANCING. CALLING IT NOW, EARLY TECHNO AND ROFLCOPTER linkage to be scum buddies since reading between the lines this looks like distancing between the parties.

@Sensfan
Seacore beat me to the punch but I don't see how significant does not equate to an alignment read. I don't get it. It's like you're framing for the bussing argument but there's no punch line. Also town reads when you admitted that there isn't a lot to make alignment calls? CONTRADICTION GALORE.

Tl DR:
Scum = Sensfan
Scum Partners = Roflcopter/Techno
Must look into = Mormon
Town reads = self explanatory if you've read.

Trio I pick to lynch, the first 3. Done and done. Time for some sleep.
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Post Post #108 (ISO) » Wed May 23, 2012 4:33 pm

Post by DTMaster »

Forgot, look into Thomith.
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Post Post #109 (ISO) » Wed May 23, 2012 5:12 pm

Post by SensFan »

In post 106, Seacore wrote:
unvote Vote sensfan


this is totally enough to vote for.
"interesting" "significant" "worth noting" these are terms of somebody who is trying to fling mud and look like they're scum hunting without getting involved.

If something doesn't help you determine alignment, it's not worth noting.

That's insanely dumb on so many levels. By your logic, meta analysis is worthless, since everything you know about someone from previous games doesn't directly tell you their alignment in this game. I didn't say that it would
never
help me with any alignments, but that it doesn't at this point.
In post 107, DTMaster wrote:@Sensfan
Seacore beat me to the punch but I don't see how significant does not equate to an alignment read. I don't get it. It's like you're framing for the bussing argument but there's no punch line. Also town reads when you admitted that there isn't a lot to make alignment calls? CONTRADICTION GALORE.

Again, I never said it wouldn't be significant at some point; just that I don't have anything to say about it right now. As for the town reads, I was asked for the people I thought were most likely to be Town. I never said I have good Town reads- I don't.
(11:04:10 PM) senspizzaline: That's actually my bold prediction for the year
(11:04:19 PM) senspizzaline: Miami finishes 2nd in the AFCE.
(11:05:35 PM) jhawk01b: my bold prediction for the year is that whoever wins the NFC West will have a winning record
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Post Post #110 (ISO) » Wed May 23, 2012 5:33 pm

Post by DTMaster »

Huh, but doesn't that mean you have some sense of reasoning to pick those two players from the rest to answer Rofl's question?
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Post Post #111 (ISO) » Wed May 23, 2012 5:48 pm

Post by DTMaster »

BTW: For funsies this is the current reasoning I see so far Senfan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJp86_tj ... re=related
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Post Post #112 (ISO) » Wed May 23, 2012 6:12 pm

Post by roflcopter »

dt, let me get this straight - you're listing me as one of your top three scumreads
entirely
based on what you're calling a partner tell with techno?

riiiiiiight
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Post Post #113 (ISO) » Wed May 23, 2012 6:31 pm

Post by DTMaster »

I'd prefer Technodeath over yours just in case the little birdy saying I could be paranoidly wrong since you are up there only by association and not by actions.
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Post Post #114 (ISO) » Wed May 23, 2012 7:33 pm

Post by TeChNoWC »

@ DT your previous long, drawn out post/wall with lots of skirting around the edges, defending people, pre-advancing posts (which I pointed out to Llama earlier, is usually a scumtell for me) and nothing quite to the point. You've sinced piped up since then though, so it may just have been a skewed, isolated read. Not liking your OMGUS of me much though, its quite telling. Also your assumption that I am 'scum partners' with roflcopter is way left field, and I don't see any basis for it. Scum going in for the OMGUS attack with little to go on. Dude, you should have pulled the lurker card.

In regards to me ignoring roflcopter's post, im not sure what you are talking about. If you mean his rebuttal of my post, I haven't posted since then and I am doing so now.

So who is your top scumread out of me and Sensfan? Why aren't you voting me if you have the neighbourhood all figured out?

@roflcopter: call it a vibe. Why do you think I'm not voting? Nothing substantial yet. Pseudo questions in terms of questions I don't feel advance town, they just take up space and (attempt to) avoid getting flak for content. I haven't ISOd you yet so I may be jumping the gun, but I didn't see much scumhunting either. Not a massive tell at this stage, but given your level of activity, I thought you would have had opinions of your own. Again, correct me if I am wrong, and I will happily recant my statement. My bussing statement was probably pre-emptive, but people that sit back and pick away at the minutae of people's arguments, I find, are just building cases to later either bus or compound a scumcase.
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Post Post #115 (ISO) » Wed May 23, 2012 7:34 pm

Post by TeChNoWC »

Sorry, wasn't clear in my last sentence - should read 'compound a faulty scumcase with hollow reasoning'.
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Post Post #116 (ISO) » Wed May 23, 2012 7:39 pm

Post by TeChNoWC »

In post 113, DTMaster wrote:I'd prefer Technodeath over yours just in case the little birdy saying I could be paranoidly wrong since you are up there only by association and not by actions.


You should listen to that little birdy, because

1. I fail to see how we are associated
2. Even if there was evidence to suggest we were, you are working on the ASSUMPTION I am scum; which is fine, but hardly telling and a poor case when I haven't even been confirmed. I have no problem with you mentioning this might be the case, but having him as a scumread because of that reason is either paranoia or a hollow scumtactic.

Your reasoning worries me.
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Post Post #117 (ISO) » Thu May 24, 2012 12:15 am

Post by snifit »

Milk has been prodded.
URoE has been prodded.

I've decided not to count the prods on SensFan and DTMaster as counting toward the three-prod limit as they fell over a long weekend.
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Post Post #118 (ISO) » Thu May 24, 2012 1:13 am

Post by DTMaster »

On my phone so responses
@techno
1. You used OMGuS incorrectly. I have provided reasoning to my attack. If I voted you indiscriminately then that is OmGUS. Learn your terms before you use them.
2. Telling me to lurk is more telling of your scuminess. I can see you squirm more of you're resorting to insults rather then cases to attack me.
3. I rank Sens fan then you Scum. Rofl is a special name on the list since he's up there by association. Sensfan has more logic behind my
attack. You have more gut. If I could double vote I would. Obviously I can't so I'll advance all my cases wih posts and votes where I can. Tellin me that I shouldn't advance either case is pretty basic scum tactics because I can vote and argue multiple people at one and catch all the scums this way. I'll make note of that since you can only tunnel from you.

4. Oh pleasE rofl copter ignored your questions you posted before. It took your scum read for you to continue to engage in your very own case? You're not even nailing roflcopter for this. This is why I linked you two. It reads as basic distancing. I shouldn't be encouraging you to scum hunt.

Sorry for the typos. On my phone.
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Post Post #119 (ISO) » Thu May 24, 2012 1:14 am

Post by DTMaster »

Oh and sarcasm tags put in for "scum read" for obvious effect.
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Post Post #120 (ISO) » Thu May 24, 2012 1:16 am

Post by DTMaster »

In post 63, TeChNoWC wrote:
In post 37, roflcopter wrote:what do you think of the fact that coffee didn't follow up his own argument with a vote?


That he is a conservative player.

In post 44, roflcopter wrote:
unvote, vote: milk


if he's scum, arugula is too. seacore is town.
discuss.

@mormon, is there anyone you think has done anything scummy? you seem like you're trying to avoid concrete suspicions, opting rather to go rng or, when forced to choose, picking lurkers (lack of content) instead of analyzing anyone's actual content.


On what do you basis do you make this assumption? And how could you possibly of three pages of posts? Do you assume that anyone that defends anyone is buddying and therefore scum buddies?


Quoting from my phone because you know you seem to forget this nice attack you present at the bottom. Wher is my follow up.
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Post Post #121 (ISO) » Thu May 24, 2012 1:20 am

Post by DTMaster »

Oh btw I couldn't help my first analysis post since I took a long wall and broke it apart. I knew I didn't have
my scum reads up and I'll that that blow since yeah if i continued to do so would be troubling. But thats the read. Plus now I'm obviously pursing this case with Sensfan.
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Post Post #122 (ISO) » Thu May 24, 2012 1:26 am

Post by DTMaster »

If you're wondering why, I'll pull up a meta game when I'm not on my phone. I've been scolded in the past for going off tangently so I'm trying to check that so I have more solid logical cases. If you have the time look up gods and men where zorblag scolded me in game. Or court of gods where i tried todo crazy gambits, had lots of town reads that were right but didn't do enough to defend it. Etc. it's an of game since I tried to find scum by confirming in my head the town reads. I had good towndar that game but really bad scumdar.
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Post Post #123 (ISO) » Thu May 24, 2012 1:28 am

Post by absta101 »

I will attempt to build a more solid read on everyone. Though, I don't expect to find much from the ISOs as the game is just getting started.
Anyway...

Aragula

Nothing too important to get from him atm. The only thing I could find was that him and seacore have developed an awkward relationship. If in the future one of them suspects the other, it might be based on their emotions more than actual tells. This is most likely not the case however, as Aragula has a town read on seacore.
@Aragula
I would like to know who your scum reads are. I know that you don't have any scum reads so far. Though, If you look harder, i'm sure you'll find something.

DTMaster

Firstly I want to clear this up. In post #95 you said,
"The current argument/"case" on absta is still awaiting a response especially with the new questions from Humble."

Who are you waiting for a response from?
In post #96
"Still waiting on meta research results but will expect them shortly."

Meta research results, what?

I don't like that he's trying to pick out a scum team before we have a scum flip. In post #107 he says
"THIS REEKS OF DISTANCING. CALLING IT NOW, EARLY TECHNO AND ROFLCOPTER linkage to be scum buddies since reading between the lines this looks like distancing between the parties."

Unless one of them flips scum, this quote is as reliable as roflcopter's post (#44).

Overall I'm getting a town read from him. He spends most of his time scum hunting which is an obvious good sign.

Humble Poirot

Basically the same as DT. Spends his time looking for scum.
Humble and DT are my strongest town reads so far.

Milk

I'm not seeing him as scum unlike some of you. Could someone (who still finds him scummy) explain to me (or link me to a post where they already have) why Milk is scum?

MormonCoffee

I dislike his case on Milk. It seems to be based solely on the 'fact' that Milk's vote wasn't random. It's possible for Milk's vote to have been random whilst having a random, but true, statement attached to it.
Vote: Thom (random vote)
I dislike rqs (random but true statement).

To be continued. Right now I'm bored.
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Post Post #124 (ISO) » Thu May 24, 2012 1:42 am

Post by DTMaster »

Quick responses.

1. For my 94 you to Humble. You missed some questions. Hmm parallelism is coming into play I note.
2. For my 96 the meta research that Seacore was doing to Thomith. Which I need to verify but since Thomith is not discrediting it I'm taking it good at face value.
3. For my linking the players, lol true as a statement of fact. But that doesn't mean it's not doing its job, and I'm making notes off it. :p
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