Open 414: Nightless Vengeful Mayhem (End)

[JohnnyFarrar]

Gunny, if you're not scum, who is? And why were you so convinced on Rach?

Code, if no one else is willing to vote me, perhaps it's time to re-evaluate your reads. There are two scum left, who are they?

Phil, you say you're not sheeping. Tell me then, who are the last two scum and why?

Trow, I don't really have any burning questions for you. Just didn't want you to feel left out.

[drmyshotgun]

Trow is confirmed Town too.
Code_X and Phillammon team. Confirmed Scums.

[Phillammon]

Scum one is Shotgun. THis is logical. THe second scum I am not sure about, however:
I am town. THere is yet to be a hammer, therefore shotgun is scum, or both members of the scumteam are currently voting for him. As I am town, thus, the latter is not the case, and equally the fact that I have not been quickhammered off the back of shotgun's vote means that he must be one of the remaining scum members.
As for the second scum, I am fairly convinced that Jonny is town, thus, Scum lies between Code and Trow. Code's point on "distancing" would be good if we didn't have the snag that one or rach and shotgun by definition had to be scum, thus calling him scum all of yesterday was entirely accurate, especially given Rach did not look like scum. I'm not sure how to interpret the possibly WIFOM in shotgun's most recent post, but I imagine that the last scum is Code, given he is making points on Jonny that equally apply to me.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Waiting for Code. Since Trow hasn't actually voted yet, we can assume either Trow is town or they're scumbuddies.

[Code_X]

There are two scum left, who are they?

Shotgun and you.

Or

Shotgun and Trow.

Either way Shotgun is scum. Being as how you were all over him yesterday, convinced on him, and then flipped to Rach and are now dilly dallying over lynching him. I'd lean towards you.

If he was town, he'd have been hammered as I'm town so one of you guys is scum.

[MrTrow]

attempt nr2, last one vanished.

@Johnny: i have no issues with 'being left out' of the collection of suspects
Is there a specific reason you don`t want me to hammer?
Is there a reason for your rage-vote when i said a was open to a gunny-lynch?
you might also want to check the reasons why i was(am) unwilling to vote you.

@phil: what wifom are you talking about? (i can`t find any in that post)
gunny vs phil&code are mutually confirmed scum, you`ve pointed that out yourself in the very same post

@code:
and you`re sure phil isn`t scum how?

@gunny:
any specific case you want to present on code and/or phil?
i see how from your pov they must be scum, but from mine: convince me

also care to translate

What the fuck?
This is supreme bullshit framing. Fucking Venmar fucked around with this.

[JohnnyFarrar]

I was actually waiting on code.

Gunny, any last words? I intend to hammer. Though, I will wait on people to answer trow.

[MrTrow]

i`m waiting on you to do the same.

why did you throw a 'defended by rage only'-vote when asked to convince me gunny is scum ?
regarding code`s 'backpedaling' did you get what you wanted? (care to share results)?

[JohnnyFarrar]

Because I was asked to present a case better than "she isnt posting". There was no reason for her to die, but waiting for her to show up wasn't helping at all.

Oh and about code: he's scum. He was so sure on me that he wouldnt vote his new top suspect, and now he says it's actually possible that I am NOT scum.

[MrTrow]

about code: i want to see his response first.
about the rach-rage-vote: yes you were asked to present a case better than 'rach isn`t voting', but you were asked to present that case on gunny: your 'sure scum'
killing off rach only to get me to vote gunny, doesn`t make sense: ESPECIALLY given an actual case on him would have worked and you explicitly instructed me not to vote him afterwards

[drmyshotgun]

@Trow: I mean that Venmar hopping on Rach wagon right after I voted, is now making me this "conf-Scum" bullshit slot.
Trow and JF are obviously Town since they didn't hammer yet, and the two people humping my wagon are Scums.

Please, make the right choice. Please lynch one of the two people on my wagon and you will see. The next day we can lynch the other one.
I am not scum. There's 2 scums. If at least one Townie voted me from the 4 people, the scums would have hammered the fuck out of me by now.

Phillammon is taking the easy/scum path of voting me using that reason and failing to acknowledge that his slot, Chimera, was not around to coordinate a scum quick-hammer on Rach Day 2.
I suspect that Venmar voted on Rach in order to make things easy in case Chimera came back.
Code was around, but did not make any moves. Just lurking around in opportunity to have Chimera and himself coordinate hammer on Rach in their Daytalk Qtopic.

You might ask: Why wasn't Chimera replaced earlier then?
Well, the scums must have thought that replacing someone will take longer than waiting for him to come back.
Towards the end of Day 2, you would notice that Phillammon hurries in, wants to vote Rach, but then votes on Venmar as Code declares V/La.
But then Code comes back and posts something in defense to Venmar and sweet-talking Phill to sort of move onto voting Rach.
The times between these two shows 3 hours, 40 minutes, and 1.5 hour differences.
This shows that they were trying to get online at the same time.
Posting on Daytalk QT and coming in, to confirm etc.
However, the day went without a lynch as they have failed to be online at the same time together.

Day 3, there was no support for Rach-wagon since Venmar was gone like a wind, and Phillammon moves onto quickvote Venmar to be the first on the wagon.
Good time for earning town-cred.

Both Chimera and Phillammon stayed so under the radar by scarce posting etc, so they were able to cruise along without getting much attention in their actions.
This enabled Chimera slot to be obviously not outstanding target for Vengekills.
Notice Venmar has been underwater for most of his time.
So was WeirdBeard, now replaced by Code_X for a while.
Scums have been underground and came out only occassionally to appear to be contributing.
After the vengekill went wrong, and people got dayshot by Venmar, things went much much easier for them.
The only flaw for them was not being able to coordinate a quickhammer and now Code not waiting for a Townie vote on me for Hammer has uncovered everything about them.

MrTrow and JohnnyFarrar: Please, please vote Phillammon or Code_X and we can win this.

[drmyshotgun]

Well, Near-OmNom-Robbnva's dramafest (God, that was such a long time ago) did contribute in letting the scums have a comfortable time and obvious non-Vengekill-targets, but that's besides the point.
They were all not involved with the loud-drama by Om and Robb, stayed clean in all the mud-throwings amongst players.
This kind of thing can easily uncover the people's roles but by staying off of it, they had fun time watching Towns destroy each other.

[Code_X]

Hi guys, sorry for my inactivity over the weekend - had a personal emergency to deal with. Will catch up tonight.

[Code_X]

and you`re sure phil isn`t scum how?

I think his arrival in the game and subsequent play doesn't point to him being a partner with Shotgun scum. And as I've said pretty much based on day 2 one of Shotgun/Rach was scum - as she flipped town, then well he's scum. Fact remains that being as we're in lylo both you and Johnny seem to be holding out on something here. What exactly?

I'd lean towards Johnny much more because as I say he spent yesterday like a rabid dog over Shotgun, then offered himself up for lynch, then pushed over to Rach. Pretty much to save Shotgun.

So yeah scum is more than likely Shotgun and Johnny.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Are we waiting on anything else? Anyone have final thoughts on Gunny? I'll give it until tomorrow or until everyone checks in, then I'll hammer.

[drmyshotgun]

Are we waiting on anything else? Anyone have final thoughts on Gunny? I'll give it until tomorrow or until everyone checks in, then I'll hammer.

R.I.P Town.

[JohnnyFarrar]

If Phil is scum, Gunny, I give you full permission to hold this over my head forever. But I just can't see it.

[drmyshotgun]

If Phil is scum, Gunny, I give you full permission to hold this over my head forever. But I just can't see it.

The thing is that he had his vote fixed on me pretty much the entire game after Venmar lynch.
Does not do anything about Rach, nor did he come in to discuss and scumhunt. He was just fixated on me.
Throughout his V/La, the vote was on me.
Doesn't this look like as if he's just putting me out in the sea as a bait?
If fishes bite, that's good. If fishes bite someone else (ie. Rach) that's also good.
Now that one of the baits are gone, he just moves on to eliminate another one.

What of Phillammon's posts do you find exceptionally Town?
If you take my point of view, with my role PM, yeah, Phillammon is definitely confirmed Scum.
How has he invested so much as to completely sell you out of voting for him?

Of course, MrTrow and You (JF) can still be scums, as I don't see your PMs on my screen right now.
But if you guys are, I'll eat my shoe. MY SHOE. If one of you are Scum, then you guys are just playing cruel, cruel game.

I really really believed in Rach flipping scum. Her play consisted of: Lurk, come in and vote, Lurk some more, come in and vote.
I had a case on her.

Well, at least I can say I tried to the Dead Towns when this is over.

[drmyshotgun]

Can you please not hammer me?
If Phillammon is Town and you guys are too, why do you think Phillammon claims there's obvious scum-quality in me, but you guys just don't see it?

[drmyshotgun]

Perhaps you guys

do

see it too. However, here I am, still alive and drawing what might be my last breath.
Had Johnny and Trow voted already with that "rach was Town, Venmar was Scum" theory, the game would have lost already.
It's not completely over yet.
Phillammon has casted his vote straight on me. If that's a Town thing to do, why haven't you guys, CONFIRMED TOWNs, haven't

[JohnnyFarrar]

Ok. That tears it. Trow, would you be willing to vote Code? I know you're ready to hammer Gunny, but this current situation has me thinking twice. Code was unwilling to lynch Gunny yesterday, but then throws his vote on him right away today (when it's a lot more dangerous, since one more dead townie means we lose). Looks incredibly opportunistic.

[Code_X]

I'm supremely confident that Gunny's town. Lynch me first, I'll flip town, then lynch Gunny. I'm fine with the 1-for-1. Then you can totally lynch Rach, but I'm not incredibly confident in her being scum.

You spend all day yesterday wittering on about Shotgun as scum, you do a 180 degree job onto Rach and offer yourself up 1 v 1 on Shotgun, which was very noble of you. And now today, after Rach flips town you seem intent on keeping him alive. Almost desperate. Like as I say your looking to push a mis-lynch on someone else namely me.

I made it clear I'd have lynched Shotgun yesterday. Yeah I'd have preferred to lynch you..

Look it's clear as day you and Trow aren't partners as you'd have hammered Shotgun. However, the more you post the more certain i get in my read that your scum with Shotgun and are trying to pull every thing out to save his bacon and lynch me thus push a mis-lynch through and screw us over.

Shotgun's appeals to emotions are pathetic.

[JohnnyFarrar]

You spend all day yesterday wittering on about Shotgun as scum, you do a 180 degree job onto Rach and offer yourself up 1 v 1 on Shotgun, which was very noble of you. And now today, after Rach flips town you seem intent on keeping him alive. Almost desperate. Like as I say your looking to push a mis-lynch on someone else namely me.

I made it clear I'd have lynched Shotgun yesterday. Yeah I'd have preferred to lynch you..

Yes I wanted to lynch Gunny yesterday. No, I'm not as sure as I was then.

You made it clear you'd have lynched Gunny yesterday? When? The only things I remember you saying at the end of yesterday was that I would be dying no matter what Rach flipped and how scummy I am.

Look it's clear as day you and Trow aren't partners as you'd have hammered Shotgun. However, the more you post the more certain i get in my read that your scum with Shotgun and are trying to pull every thing out to save his bacon and lynch me thus push a mis-lynch through and screw us over.

First sentence doesn't make sense in this context. Did anyone suggest we were partners?

Second sentence doesn't make sense at all if you look at any of my behavior yesterday. Like, any. Why would I insist Rach was town and insist on Gunny's scumminess if he were my partner? Why would I then vote Rach insisting she's town and say to lynch Gunny now?

Here's a much simpler scum case: You and (possibly) Gunny. You saw how sure I was yesterday, questioned me until I caved and voted someone else, and then voted Gunny today thinking I would still be convinced that he was scum. Then you'd just wait for the hammer.

[MrTrow]

Did anyone suggest we were partners?

Code did (well not really but), it is the only possibility for gunny to not be scum without having to drop his absolute certainty about phil being town.

As for the phil-town case:
Code i`m still waiting for it (will now hold off the hammer until i get it).
gunny is scum, given he`s not hammered yet (ok that i see)
phil is town because of his play, given gunny is scum, is not a case.

b.t.w. if a townie has a reason to hold out on something, why do you want it clear

what

it is?

@gunny:
i see the case you`ve provided on code and phil as mainly defending why rach wasn`t hammered
(i see why that takes priority and look into you suggested possibilities tomorrow (they look like, hard look is required) )
more importantly i see the actual case as 'lurking, that`s it', is that really all you have to share on the matter?

[Code_X]

I don't see Phil as scum come in Day 2 and pretty much nail Venmar. Yeah I guess it buys him a lot of town cred if he is scum but at the same time it feels like if he was Venmar's partner he would have hung around for longer and looked to push against RachMarie.

Look at this point I'm pretty confident Shotgun is scum - pretty sure it's with Johnny. But I'm happy to go one v one with Johnny and you can lynch me tomorrow, then him the day after.

Does anyone at this point think me and Phil are scum?