Open 420: Medical Mafia - That's all, folks!

[Venmar]

Actually you know what ven? First instinct is usually the correct instinct(I hate voting off of gut though).
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Zach

It's wrong in this case.

- Your defense is marvelous, 10/10, would be convinced again.

[RachMarie]

umm WHAT? What kind of defense is that Zach?

[Zachrulez]

Actually you know what ven? First instinct is usually the correct instinct(I hate voting off of gut though).
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Zach

It's wrong in this case.

- Your defense is marvelous, 10/10, would be convinced again.

And I'm supposed to defend myself against a gut based vote how?

Him saying it's gut based at it's core means he doesn't have any reasoning beyond it. There's nothing to defend against other than to say his gut is wrong. The only thing I can suggest is that he try to look for a logical basis to back up his gut vote and act accordingly based on whether or not he's satisfied that there's sound logic or not, but that's up to him at this point. (Assuming he's town which is my belief right now.)

Preview Edit: God you guys are dense. You can't defend yourself against gut.

[Zachrulez]

This fucking game... seriously.

[RachMarie]

Yes you can Zach... If you feel he is wrong making a case based on gut, do you think he is misguided town or scum? Why ? Make a case on him as being the one you feel he is.

[Zachrulez]

Yes you can Zach... If you feel he is wrong making a case based on gut, do you think he is misguided town or scum? Why ? Make a case on him as being the one you feel he is.

I don't think it needs to be said that I feel he's wrong. I think he's misguided as hell town. There's meta from a newbie game I would reference where I was scum and he read me incorrectly (if memory serves me correctly) for most of the game and how I feel this is overcompensation for that, (A gut scum read for the entire game.) but the game itself was erased in the great site crash earlier this year.

I think he's town because his reads and voting patterns have been all over the place. It's a leap I make based on the fact that when I've been lost as town that's how I tended to play in the past and still have somewhat of a tendency to do. It contrasts from scum as scum generally know what they want do and their reads and voting patterns won't tend to be in as much flux. It's not a hard rule, but my own scum experiences tend to bear it out.

[Zachrulez]

Anyway, I would urge everyone to look particularly at Yellowbounder... most especially his response to my vote. It's very clearly a veiled threat that is an attempt to influence my vote to move. This is not a play you see from town. (You also won't see this scumtell dropped often but it is a rather significant one.)

[yellowbounder]

Anyway, I would urge everyone to look particularly at Yellowbounder... most especially his response to my vote. It's very clearly a veiled threat that is an attempt to influence my vote to move. This is not a play you see from town. (You also won't see this scumtell dropped often but it is a rather significant one.)

It wasn't a threat. You seemed to want to vote me under bad pretences, and I didn't really approve.

I'm still feeling a Mort lynch, just so it'll make clear the alignment of various people who reacted to his late-claim.

[FuDuzn]

Newbie 1194 you are referencing Zach, and yes I had you pegged as town the whole game(and I wish that game wasn't lost, it would offer some good meta). But while I am using my memory of that game to try to get a good read on you, and am not overcompensating or anything, that seems like a weird thing to say.

But I will give yellowbounder a good once over, I guess it is the least I can do.

[Zachrulez]

Newbie 1194 you are referencing Zach, and yes I had you pegged as town the whole game(and I wish that game wasn't lost, it would offer some good meta). But while I am using my memory of that game to try to get a good read on you, and am not overcompensating or anything, that seems like a weird thing to say.

I wish the game could be referenced too. My scum vs town play is like night and day.

[yellowbounder]

Newbie 1194 you are referencing Zach, and yes I had you pegged as town the whole game(and I wish that game wasn't lost, it would offer some good meta). But while I am using my memory of that game to try to get a good read on you, and am not overcompensating or anything, that seems like a weird thing to say.

I wish the game could be referenced too. My scum vs town play is like night and day.

Stop pointing at your meta. You can do so after the game is over, and we actually

know

your alignment.

Otherwise, it's just a lot of "Man, this game I've been really town, like all the other times I've been town. Man, it's difficult being so town.", because anything else isn't playing to your win-condition, bar any weird probably-not-a-good-idea pretending-to-be-scum-as-town gambits.

[Zachrulez]

I'll point at my meta all I like.

People can make whatever conclusions they want from that.

[Robocopter87]

Ven, I have been waffling on Zach all game. Everytime I want to put a solid vote on him something in my brain says not to. If push comes to shove though I will switch to Zach.

And Robo, didn't I say it has been all of his actions and posts today and not just his refusal to reveal his night action?

WHICH POSTS

WHICH ACTIONS

AND THEN YOU GO AND VOTE ZACH AND TOTALLY DROP YOUR VOTE ON MORT

WHY DONT YOU JUST CLAIM SCUM

[/caps]

[Mortontfrh]

I've never actually seen a game where everyone was so keen to lynch for "reasons" instead of an actual case. No one would actually give a case for TTS, Fud won't give one for me, and now he won't give one for Zach and everyone just seems to accept this willy nilly?

The funniest part is that Fud says that his vote on me is based on Logic instead of the gut vote on Zach. My favorite logic votes are the ones that you can't explain but just throw down a blanket "Just look at his play" as justification. Solid logic vote right there.

[FuDuzn]

My gut read on Zach is based off of the game that we played in together where he was scum, and he seems to be playing similar to that. Also in that game he had me as a solid town read even though I know my game can appear scummy at times, and he is doing the same thing. And the fact that he says he plays wildly different when town makes me wonder even more.

And Mort you are probably correct in that my 'case' on you was probably more about I hated your style of play and that it was clearly anti-town, but that doesn't always equal scum. But, not sure why you don't think I made a case. Your posts seemed so blatant that I felt that it would be obvious to everyone why I thought you were scummy. Funny how the biggest reaction I got from this was out of Robo and not you though. Probably was a bit too stubborn, but as someone else mentioned, you have to be able to see how what you did was iffy at best.

[Robocopter87]

But, not sure why you don't think I made a case. Your posts seemed so blatant that I felt that it would be obvious to everyone why I thought you were scummy.

Even after I specifically asked you to explain them? You did not explain why they were scummy. Saying they were blatant doesn't work because if they really were blatant then Mort would have been lynched right now.

You didn't explain them because you couldn't explain them because you didn't actually have anything on him because you are scum.

And now you jumped off that vote onto Zach. And your reasoning is meta and that is total BS.

[FuDuzn]

Hey Robo there are other players in this game besides me ya know.

And why is meta bullshit? I normally don't like using it as a primary tool, but it is what is sticking out to me about Zach. And when Zach even mentions that he plays wildly different when is town vs when he is scum and I notice that he appears to be very similar to a game where he was scum, how is that bullshit?

And I made references to specific posts that both Mort made and I made regarding Mort, if you think I am scum because you don't like the way I make a case then you probably should sub out and blacklist me because welcome to my playstyle.

[Robocopter87]

Referenced =/= explained
Referenced =/= case

You simply said he did scummy stuff.

And just because you said it doesn't mean it is true. You need to explain it.

Meta is worthless. Past games do not effect this one directly. Using past game actions to determine this games scum does not work. Meta is worthless.

Yeah there are other people, you'd like it if I got off your back for being totally scummy, wouldn't you? That would be just peachy.

[Zachrulez]

@Fuduzn: Do you remember any specific similarities or is the sticking point that I am apparently reading you the same? (Not reading you the way you'd expect me to?)

[FuDuzn]

Is it worthless when the meta being used has already been brought up by the person? And is it worthless when his own meta contradicts what he just said? Is there someone I could vote for that you wouldn't blindly defend?(I am only half joking with the last question)

Pedit: Zach, your read on me is part of it. But it is just your general play in each game, kind of right in the middle of being passive and aggressive. It might not mean too much, but even you said you play a lot differen as town and as scum, and I just don't see much of a difference. It isn't the greatest case in the world, but it just seems a bit odd. And this is why I have been waffling in regards to you, not sure if I should stick to my gut.

[FuDuzn]

And I even remember saying that I try to be hard to read, and when someone has me pegged at obv town early in a game(like you did in that game and in this game), it makes me wonder.

[Mortontfrh]

And Mort you are probably correct in that my 'case' on you was probably more about I hated your style of play and that it was clearly anti-town, but that doesn't always equal scum. But, not sure why you don't think I made a case. Your posts seemed so blatant that I felt that it would be obvious to everyone why I thought you were scummy.

There's a couple of problems with this. First of all, if my posts were so blatant then wouldn't that make it easy for you to make a case? And yet here you spent the better part of the day waffling with "I don't need too, it should just be obvious".

Adding on to that, what made your case suddenly dissolve into thin air and now you think that my play was just anti-town? You said it yourself, I didn't even defend any of your accusations, Robo did. Are you saying that you think someone else' defense of my play was sufficient to drop your scum read on me?

Hey Robo there are other players in this game besides me ya know.

Fuck no you don't get off that easily just because you dropped the wagon. You're STILL skirting around the "Why" you thought i'm scum. How many times has Robo asked you to actually explain your thought process and you just ignored it? What, you think that just because you dropped the wagon means that you don't need to answer for your earlier posts regarding my wagon?

[FuDuzn]

My thought process was that I read your posts and viewed your actions, seriously I have repeated myself a million times here. I did not like how you refused to claim until everone else did and got snotty when questioned about it, to me this seemed to come from a scum perspective. When I brought this up a few other players commented on it(funny how some poeple were able to get what I was saying, isn't it?) and essentially said this is mort being mort. Then Robo decided that he wanted to forget that anybody else was playing this game and then I had to defend myself. I now feel after you reactions and others reactions(besides Robos) that you are town. Hence why I am voting Zach now.

I had mentioned most of what I just said already in previous posts, my bad I didn't just put it into one giant wall of text

[Zachrulez]

And I even remember saying that I try to be hard to read, and when someone has me pegged at obv town early in a game(like you did in that game and in this game), it makes me wonder.

I remember some kind of town read on you in that game. Looking at my own iso in this game I don't see an instance where I pegged you obvtown. (All instances of pegging you town are town leans.)

[Zachrulez]

My thought process was that I read your posts and viewed your actions, seriously I have repeated myself a million times here. I did not like how you refused to claim until everone else did and got snotty when questioned about it, to me this seemed to come from a scum perspective. When I brought this up a few other players commented on it(funny how some poeple were able to get what I was saying, isn't it?) and essentially said this is mort being mort. Then Robo decided that he wanted to forget that anybody else was playing this game and then I had to defend myself. I now feel after you reactions and others reactions(besides Robos) that you are town. Hence why I am voting Zach now.

I had mentioned most of what I just said already in previous posts, my bad I didn't just put it into one giant wall of text

What do you think about the fact that I claimed first?