Open 441 - Chosen Mafia (OVER)

[Whiskers]

Alright, EBWOP, also pageget.

the hammer was stupid, at least i thought i made my intentions clear that i wanted to say something potentially important

Lol, you forgot about the loooooong period of time during which you could have said something potentially important, but didn't.

---

Well the first part of RC's case is something that is hard to respond to. I have no idea why grey gave those statements about me. It was possibly to appease rc. It was possibly to go without having a firm opinion on me so he could either mislynch or buddy to me if the sitaution called for that. But I really have no way to respond to this besides speculation.

When looking at something that a confirmed scum said, we know that much of it is filled with wifom and cannot be taken as completely credible. For instance I thought RGF was surely chosen for the way that Grey kept going after him, but rgf was just vanilla. It does give us ideas, but cannot be used as a main FOS on someone.

It does put me off a little that you go, "Well, all the stuff Greywing said in regards to me was WIFOM, so you can't analyse it!"

But I do like this tally system.

Let's look at how many times he comments on or quotes someone else:

RGF II
Mcstab IIIIII
Whiskers I
RC IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
Eidolon IIIIIIIII
inte/ crypto I

I think this is more credible information than speculative wifom about who he called scum/town. Why was he so comfortable commenting on me, Rc, and mcstab, but left whiskers and inte completely untouched? Inte was barely in the game, so that is reasonable, but whiskers was there.

Let's look at his post in 291. This is what he said in regards to RC flipping chosen:

If you end up flipping Chosen, then I'll look at Eid, and I'd probably need to look at McStab as well. As the leader of your wagon, he'd naturally fall under suspicion. I find it unlikely that I'll see anything other then a scum flip however.

Why me and mcstab? Why not whiskers?

Well, for one thing, both you and MCStab were attacking RC at the time, and I wasn't. If RC flipped Chosen, how could it imply me being scum??? You're just trying to make me look bad? He didn't leave me out because I was his scumbuddy, he left me out because I wouldn't be implicated in the hypothetical scenario.

Whiskers was questioning you initially, calling you scummy and buddying with you at the same time. I think that's more suspicious than an outright attack because she's leaving scum motivated options open. (posts 114, 119, 176 ) She's being sooo opportunistic with her posts here. The fact that grey disregards her completely is another tell.

Whoa whoa, WHAT? Buddying, where? Calling bullshit on that one-- you don't even try to back it up.
Also, holy shit: you're lazy. I put links in since you can't be bothered.

Posts

are opportunistic, now? How is 114 so? I said, "I have suspicion on these players because of this." How, HOW is that opportunistic? In that, I saw the opportunity to post, and so I did? "Ah, look there's a box at the bottom of this page so that I may input text and post it! What an opportunity!" Is that what you meant? I'm not getting this.

119 is opportunistic? I answered a site-question posed by RC. If you'll recall, he's new around here. Jesus christ, how is this opportunistic? I wasn't even casting suspicion. "AHA! HERE'S a REAL opportunity to answer a question! BWUAHAHAHAHAHAA!" What are you trying to accuse me of? Please be more specific than "opportunistic."

Similarly, give me some reasoning on 176, please? You're going, "this and this and this are scummy!" but I' afraid I'll need you to explain in more detail. I'm sure I could pick three posts out of the air and say they are opportunistic without reading them, and leave town to come to their own conclusions about "why" or "how." Oh, and I'll not link them, so it'll make it harder for them to check and see for themselves. They'll just take my word for it.

---

Whiskers did something scummy and i explained WHY. i had multiple posts about why i thought she was scummy. So there's no reason why i SHOULDN'T change my read in that situation. It doesn't show scum motivation because i had a legit reason as to why whiskers seemed scummier.

Er, well, that's not exactly true, the part about "having a legit reason" and "ergo no scum motivation," but I'll let that go for the juicier morsel:
I did something scummy? You mean the part where I said we should lynch me and you? I didn't push the idea, I only suggested it. You got your panties in a bunch-- maybe because you're kind of dead set on survival. I'd even have been willing to go first, but it never got past the stage of, "hey what do you think about this". Maybe it was a good plan and you're scum, so you wanted to shoot it down? idk!

Also, at that point, mcstab made a post about rgf possibly being chosen. It made more sense to me that grey would go after a chosen rather than his buddy so that helped me steer away from rgf.

Fair enough. Although, on the other hoof, it does give you that motive to kill him (of "he was the most vanilla townie-looking" that you gave earlier).

It's only scummy when you are changing opinions without valid reasoning or having one opinion and doing something else (ie whiskers reaction to you, saying you are scum in one post and then trying to coach you in the next.)

Whoops, what? Did I change my opinion without valid reasoning? You forgot to back this up. My saying he is scum in one post, and "coaching" him in the next is inconsistant how? I'm suggesting, no matter what his alignment in this game, that he should go play a Newbie game to better learn how to play. How is this telling?

How is this telling??

---

However we need to be careful today and not rush to a lynch. It could be inte for all i know though i'm leaning strongly on whiskers. I also have a response for whisker's response to me in regards to grey more likely being chosen and how that is completely untrue.

It's really cool how you keep SAYING you have answers for this, but NEVER give them. The post you DO address SOME of my points, you say, "I'm far too important to have a debate, so I'll just be vague and try to make you look bad."

---

I'm not into getting into this over-anal back and forth point by point argument with whiskers, so i'll just respond to a few things that she said.

GOD! I'm so OVER-ANAL! More likely, I'm right, you're wrong, and you know it. You're avoiding the points I brought up against you, and questions

I asked of you

, so you don't look bad, but try to build strawmans with what's left over.

I often nitpick. You and RC know full well how much I nitpick. RC has seen me nitpick cases apart until they fall down.

So she admits to nitpicking often. Then she should NOT use that as justification to back down from grey suspicion and not anyone elses.

Hey, nice misrep: I did not back down from suspicion on Greywing.

The point was that she singled someone out, she singled A SCUM OUT in backtracking on her read on him, not whether or not the nitpicking was scummy.

I singled all of the players out. It was a fucking list in which I listed all of the players and said, "Here is what I think of this, this, this, and this player."
Therefore, I also singled out the second mafia, both of the chosen townies, and all of the vanilla townies. Having singled out a scum in a list in which the

point

was to single out players is not telling.
I did not backtrack on my read on Greywing. Post 301 for reference. The things I listed against Greywing were:
-Ignoring RC's scummy townmeta
-Unconvincing posts cautioning against the Paschwagon
-A bad feeling.
Since none of these are particularly scummy, I suggested that I may just be nitpicking, but then contradicted that hesitation: "Maybe I'm just looking for things to nitpick, BUT I have a bad feeling about you, Greywing."

My read was never stronger than that. At the time, I had two scumreads-- you and RGF, and Greywing was "a bad feeling." The weak read on him might be scummy (that's where scum like to hide their buddies on their reads-lists), but I did

not

"backtrack on Greywing," as you suggested.

I'd like to reiterate the fact that whiskers was avoiding my case because she didn't want a grey lynch.

Wait, what? When did you iterate this the first time? What case? I didn't want a Grey lynch? WHAT?? What are you talking about?

Look at our interaction. My post 319, whiskers 322, my 345, and her 348.

Er, what about them? In 319, you tried to defend yourself with "WHERE IS YOUR EVIDENCE?! THIS IS ALL SPECULATION!!!" And in 322 I said, "Uh, yeah. Having no hard facts and not knowing who the scum is, OF COURSE it is speculation." Consider: All the things you are attacking me for now is speculative. In 322, I also point out where you misrepped me in 321, (saying that I tired to "tie us together",) where you used a catchphrase, (not lynching the "Obvious scum"), and tried to analyse the wagon and come to some kind of point but couldn't, because we had TWO inactive playerslots.

my reasoning:

Whiskers, what i meant about lynching grey over one of us is that there is no reason to think he is less likely to be chosen than you or me. So why try to lynch me AND THEN YOUR OWN SELF when grey has been more visibly scummy? It just doesn't make sense to me. It makes me think that i am chosen and you are just trying to lynch me. I get that would be obvious so i'm not certain that is your motive but i honestly see no other reason on why you would say that. I can provide a case on him later if you don't think he's scummy.

whiskers' response:

I'm not saying Greywing isn't scummy. I'm saying that it might be better play to lynch VTs, since mafia wants CTs dead, and mafia will be trying to hide in with the VTs while attacking CTs.

Mafia will try to hide as VTs while attacking CTs.
CTs will think they are VTs and will look like VTs except for Mafia attack them.
VTs who aren't CTs are either VTs (lynchable without consequence as long as both CTs are alive) or Mafia (who we want to lynch in the first place.

She completely ignores my point and my question while talking about wifom theory about what mafia would do. I want to know why she would lynch me and then HER OWN SELF over grey. There is NO REASON to think that grey was chosen townie. she NEVER tells me WHY she would think that grey is possibly chosen.

I forgive you for not understanding me, but yes, I DID answer your question.
QUESTION: Why lynch Eido and Whiskers instead of Greywing?
ANSWER: Greywing may be scum or a CT. Eido and Whiskers are probably scum or VTs, not CTs.

If that wasn't your point, I'm not sure what was.
Also, consider: there is NO scum motivation to be lynched before my scummy scumbuddy. If My scumbuddy is going down, I am not going to stand around and say, "Hey, lynch me instead!" That would be stupid. Better to save face and towncred and bus him into the ground.

Finally THIS day period she gave me some answers:

-Neither you nor I had come under as much suspicion as Greywing by the time we lynched him.

Not true. Before the grey lynch started, her and RC both suspected me. Only rc had suspected grey. Multiple posts were spent of me trying to prove myself to be town from attacks. There. Immediately I show that i had come under more suspicion than grey (by one of the mafia members, whiskers, no less.)

I'm sorry that you misread: By the time Greywing was lynched, RC, YOU, ME, and McStab

at the very least

suspected Greywing. That is more suspicion than either of us had had.

So me and grey had the same amount of votes.

So what? .___.

But grey's came from two people who found him scummy. Mine came from one scum, and one townie who thinks i'm scum in EVERY SINGLE GAME we play because i've tricked him a few times as mafia and he's paranoid about me escaping him. Anyway, this point by whiskers is FALSE.

Er, you're acting as though I'm already confirmed scum-- as a townie, you'd have no way of knowing that.
Both of your votes also came from two people who found you scummy.
The point by Whiskers is not false. The point you twisted it to become is false, but had you addressed the point I had made, instead of making up a false one, you'd have seen that it's not.

-We were thought to be VTs by Village-Leader McStab, so were under at least some protection from a lynch that day.

Mcstab thought that RC/ RGF were chosen. This means that he thought grey was either VT OR SCUM. So this point is completely invalid. FALSE.

In what way is this false?

-Clever mafia wouldn't push for Chosen Townies right away anyway, for fear of

Thanks for telling me your game plan.

Well-- yeah. That's why I shared it: It's what I would do as scum. I think it should be taken into consideration.

She completely disregarded her other point that she thought grey could have been chosen due to the amount of votes he had acquired by saying this.

She's lying. She's squirming. Lynch her.

Ok, firstly: iirc I said that Greywing had more of a chance to be Chosen than either one of us. That does not mean that he IS chosen, or that I thought him particularly LIKELY to be Chosen, it is what it is: Greywing had MORE of a chance to have been a CT (based on votes and suspicion) than either of us did.
Secondly: If you'll recall, I also had a scumread on Greywing. Being third scumread maybe isn't ideal, but I don't pretend to be 100% accurate and clearly, at least one of my top scumreads (RGF and you) was wrong.
THIRDLY: Even if he had been Chosen, I would have shrugged and continued playing. the Chosen Townie mechanic is to hinder scum. Games have been won for town without it. We just would have had to change our tactics back to normal scumhunting.
I'm not lying, I'm not squirming, and I think you may have already lynched me, let me go read the other seven or so pages.

[rapidcanyon]

Whiskers, you have already been hammered. I tried my best but it was as if Eidolon had waved a magic wand and the spellbound townie just voted you and kept their votes there. They won't give me 24 hours or even 1 hour to make a case to lynch Eidolon. They stuck their votes on you and refused to take them off giving Eidolon the chance to hammer whenever she wishes. McStab even absolved the responsibility of the hammer from Eidolon. She will surely kill me tonight and along with McStab lynch Inte.

She is extremely skilled and beautiful and alluring. Her posts have just the right amount of buddying and aggression to make people fall head over heels for her. She is a genius. What could I have done against her?

[Whiskers]

Oh, and apparently i'm whiskers biggest scumread, but look at this quote from whiskers from post 435:

Maybe, but I'd say it's too early to make such a firm accusation.
However, you might convince the mafia not to nightkill him, to either frame him as mafia, or make you wary to lynch him (and lynch a CT instead).

Whiskers knows i'm town.

otherwise she wouldn't have been thinking about how my speculation would effect mafia's decisions.

There's no way that quote could have come from someone who legitimately thinks i'm scum.

So i'd be interested in hearing who she throws her scumread on now. Or if she still thinks its me, how she will try and wiggle her way out of that one.

Incorrect: since I DON'T

know

your alignment, I responded with the POV that you might be town, but were helping the scum via carelessness. OfC, I could also say that I was subtly accusing you of being mafia yourself, saying this so that, when you don't nightkill him, it would either frame him as mafia, or make town wary to lynch him.

The scum already is apparent. I don't think "let's wait for whiskers response" is sufficient reasoning not to hammer when i ALREADY know that any response given from her will not sway my opinion.

Riiiight... you've convinced yourself. You've misread, misunderstood, and misrepped, you've glossed over the points that discuss YOU, and focussed on the ones that discuss ME. You are either town (and rather bullheaded) and have convinced yourself that I am scum, or you yourself are scum and are just making it look that way.

I'm confident enough to take heat for it if whiskers flips town because i don't think that will happen.

I'd like to see this come to fruition.

I won't criticize you for it if she flips town and you hammer. Tons of people have made that mistake before.

This is

so bad

. You're pushing a lynch-- pushing for

someone else

to hammer a player saying, "hey, it's okay, town sometimes lynch town."
If I flip Chosen, I DO want you to look here, please?

if mcstab is scum he deserves a win

God. This guy. No. If McStab is scum then we've all ignored him to attack each other. Recall that we let him lead the town, decide who was and was not CTs. Recall that he did, as RC said, ride the wagon on Pasch. Notice that he is, now, comforting Eido, telling her it's okay to mislynch because town sometimes does.

And remember that

I

said, again and again, that GOOD scum would NOT attack the Chosen Townies openly, but instead try to mislead town into thinking that VTs were CTs. IF I FLIP CHOSEN, GO HERE.

i'm pretty sure mcstab is competent enough to see that a hammer here is a quicklynch

where i come from, quicklynches are frowned upon

pedit:

shoddy play by whiskers. mostly, weird grey interactions

Dear god. Did you miss the post where McStab said that Eido SHOULD hammer, and that she WOULDN'T get blamed for it?? READ MAN, READ!

Also, I didn't HAVE any "weird grey interactions." If you'll recall, that was one of Eido's points AGAINST me, is that Greywing didn't mention me more than once.

am not "threatening" you with anything. Why do you choose to use that word in particular and try to discredit me?

You answered your own question. If I

don't

flip chosen, go after Eido. I'm kind of banking on the fact that Inte is just fucking retarded-- offence intended. I hope I don't ever have to play with Inte again.

[size=]in this game a quickhammer like this, especially if she is town, is not pro-town at all and will result in a lynch if she is town[/size]

Don't worry about my experiment, everyone do what they feel they need to do.

I won't criticize you for it if she flips town and you hammer. Tons of people have made that mistake before.

READ THE THREAD!!!

[rapidcanyon]

So, you are actually saying that we should go for McStab as opposed to Eidolon? I don't get why he would do a complete about turn on me and go after Greywing though if he was scum.

[rapidcanyon]

I get the fact that McStab was egging Eidolon on and absolving her of responsibility but I specifically wanted to wait for your response and Eido hammered anyway. I am really unsure out of the 3, who I am annoyed with the most. They won't unvote no matter what.

[Whiskers]

THE EFFORT I PUT INTO THE GAME AND PUT INTO THE CASE ON GREYWING AND WHISKERS showed them I am townie.

BUT YOUR CASE WAS FULL OF LIES AND HOLES. SCUM CAN PUT WORK INTO THE GAME TO. WORK--->GAME IS

NOT TELLING!!

Also,

I

put work into this game too, and if that is how you "showed them" that you're townie, then why didn't it work for me?

Nah, I'm putting my money on McStab at this point. I don't know debate.org's standard play but by this point, Whiskers is obviously going to be lynched and she doesn't have to hold so tightly. She's attacking with such abandon, so convinced-- I'll drink the Wine and say, Lynch McStab.

[rapidcanyon]

But if McStab was scum and Eido town, would she have so easily bought his explanation about an "information lynch?" She is usually a heck of a lot better player. I also doubt she would fencesit on my alignment while quitely pushing the lynch.

[Whiskers]

or you could have just posted you analysis

LOL I'VE FUCKING HEARD THAT ONE BEFORE.
From me, to you.
Makes me worry that you're scum, because you're stupid (is anyone really that stupid? Or just a scum act?) and apparently a hypocrite.

Eidolon just hammer Whiskers and be done with it. His flip will reveal Eidolon's alignment.

Not to blatant sheep inte, but I'm town, you're town, and inte is town. This game is an easy win. I'll have to re-evaluate if Whiskers somehow flips town, but I'm not going to trust my Eidolon read if he does.

"Whiskers' flip will reveal Eidolon's alignment"
Huh, how incredibly different from "I won't criticize you if you hammer and Whiskers flips town"

Almost like a direct contradiction!!

You can save yourself the time by lynching Whiskers; if he flips anything but scum, no one is "auto town", because I have townreads on every surviving player, meaning I'm obviously off and have to reconsider. So would inte I'm sure, so would Eidolon, and really only you would have still-present views.

I have townreads on every surviving player, meaning I'm obviously off

No shit. If you have townreads on every surviving player, then you are obviously off.

Eidolon I won't hold it against you if you hammer

it would be for max lulz

This shit is hilarious. Not only that, it's telling-- either you are A) setting Eido up to mislynch her tomorrow, or B) unwilling to lynch her in any circumstance, regardless of what you said a bit ago about "Whiskers' flip determines Eidolon's alignment"

Where is the lie, McStab?

Which one is the lie, McStab?

[Whiskers]

Congrats, Eidolon, you are really one of a kind. Somehow whenever, you are active and put some effort into the game, you have the town wrapped around your pinky finger. You are really the best of the best both on this site and DDO. I am just frustrated but putting that aside, I do admire your skills a lot. You got to teach me how to play mafia. At one point, I thought we were both equal on skill level. This game showed me that it was all just an illusion. I am nowhere even close to you based on skills. You are up here and I am down there. Oh, well, at some point, I hope to be as good as you. Well played.

No, look: she didn't convince you. She had Inte wrapped around her finger because he doesn't have enough braincells to form a synapse and she had McStab wrapped around her finger because he's scum.

@ inte. it could be anyone really. but i'd venture a guess that it's not rc.

Hey, good job, you've now Fencesat, and CONFIRMED that RC will get nightkilled-- er, unless I'm VT and he's chosen.
Hey, actually we could still win this!! YES!

if whiskers flips town, i'll probably think inte is the last scum, though i will reevaluate mcstab. it depends on who dies i guess.

Lol. if I'm chosen, or RC is a vt, then RC will die. There is NO other option for scum.

So, you are actually saying that we should go for McStab as opposed to Eidolon? I don't get why he would do a complete about turn on me and go after Greywing though if he was scum.

Towncred. It let him lead the town, remember? I agree, I agree, it's maybe unlikely, it's WIFOMy. The simple answer is I just don't know. If you make it to the next day phase, then by all means, you decide.

I haven't seen Eidolon play particularly well yet, but I HAVE seen McStab make some good choices as scum before-- like lurking until the endgame, shooting two of the four masons, bussing a scumpartner into a Day 1 lynch...

[rapidcanyon]

Can you link me to the game where McStab bussed his scumpartner? If I stay alive, I definitely want as much info as possible to make an informed decision.

[Whiskers]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=22964
I was in this game with the following players that you know:
Malakittens, Om of the Nom, Greywing, Paschendale, McStab,
(and myself, Whiskers, but I already included.)

Day 1, there was some fighting between McStab and Salamence. Salamence was eventually (almost) lynched, and McStab had very strong for the rest of the game.

I say "almost lynched" because the mechanic of the game made optimal play for scum something along the lines of:

when you're almost lynched, shoot the most likely Mason. if you're correct, you won't die. If you're wrong, it's okay, you would have been lynched anyway."

[rapidcanyon]

Thanks! I'll read through. Now I am completely undecided. On the plus side, if I survive to the next day, they HAVE to wait for me to post analysis as opposed to rushing a quicklynch.

[Mortontfrh]

Vote Count 3.3

With 5 players it takes 3 to lynch.

Whiskers (3): Inte, McStab, Eidolon

Eidolon (1): Rapidcanyon

Not voting: Whiskers

Deadline is in (expired on 2012-09-17 01:57:00)

Whiskers the

Chosen Townie

has been lynched. Night three will last for (expired on 2012-09-08 23:33:00), I will open the thread early assuming there are no objections from anyone.

[Mortontfrh]

Inte the

Vanilla Townie

was killed. Day 3 has begun.

Vote Count 3.3

With 3 players it takes 2 to lynch.

Not voting: McStab, Eidolon, Rapidcanyon

Deadline is in (expired on 2012-09-23 13:07:00)

[McStab]

Inte is a strange person to NK. I can't really see a motive RC has to leave me alive. Eidolon, on the other hand, I can see.

I'd like to hear both arguments first though. Eidolon, why do you think RC is scum? RC, why do you think Eidolon is scum?

[rapidcanyon]

I am not sure between Eidolon and McStab at this moment. I was certain of Eidolon until Whiskers last arguments where he said to go for McStab. I can see McStab's motivation to leave me alive so I vote Eidolon. McStab, who do you think is scum and why?

[McStab]

Well, I can only conclude the reason I survived the night after I pushed hard against Greywing was because I was Chosen. Obviously with Whiskers death I COULD die, so someone obviously thought I would be of assistance to them. Judging from your posts near the end of yesterday, you suspected I would support Eidolon against you or inte. BUT.... I did offer you assurances I would think. So it's not clear cut either way.

My experiment yesterday was I was trying to see if Eidolon would lynch Whiskers if she felt comfortable (if he flipped scum that was great too), as opposed to because he was scummy. Hence why I said "I'll absolve you of guilt" etc.

Unfortunately you came in and starting protesting to make her uncomfortable, so I doubted it's veracity. Still, I'm leaning Eidolon right now. But I want to hear her thoughts first.

[rapidcanyon]

Yeah, let's hear from Eidolon. She probably won't be here today since it is the weekend but she will likely be here tomorrow.

[Eidolon]

Okay.

I know this doesn’t clear me completely but RC was pretty confident of my guilt yesterday. I think the fact that he’s not dead is a good indicator of my affiliation because it was clear that we argue to an exhaustive extent.

I really don’t think that RC is scum even though it’s a slight possibility. Our discussion yesterday made that pretty clear.

And there are a few questionable things that mcstab has done. I hadn’t seen it before because much of his maneuvering has been subtle and I was more focused on whiskers and/or defending myself. But after whiskers flipped town yesterday, I read over the last dp and his motive has become questionable.

He was in on two lynches this game that he didn’t fully believe in to his own admittance and he’s backed up both through different information gathering techniques.

Mcstab. You say today that you wanted to see if I would lynch off of comfort. Then why, not much before I hammered, did you say that whiskers flip will show my affiliation? How is the way that I lynched dependent upon whiskers flip? They aren’t dependent upon each other, especially before I hammered, For you to say those two contradictory statements has me pretty convinced that you are covering up after the fact. Is it not possible that we were both town? You can tell by my multiple posts yesterday that I really thought whiskers was scum.

Mcstab made two 180’s throughout the game that seemed to show ulterior motives. The first was a 180 from saying RC & RGF were scum to saying greywing was scum. He did this at an opportune time, when 3 people said greywing was guilty, to bus his buddy.

The second 180 was yesterday. He went from saying he’s “95%” sure that I am town to saying that inte, rc, and him were town and whiskers flip will show my affiliation..

I think he was changing his mind deliberately to set up a mislynch on me today. He kept RC in the game because he was more predictably against me throughout the game.

Mcstab why did you go from saying you’re certain I’m town to saying that my affiliation depends on whisker’s flip?

The only thing that’s holding me back is that RC could have deliberately stood up for whiskers knowing that he would flip chosen…

Buuut there were other things yesterday that made me think RC has to be town. I’ll dig them up if required. Basically, if he was scum, he’d have had to have been playing me really badly, borderline malicious, which is not in his nature.

Mcstab, you mentioned me this dp a couple times. Why do you think I’m scum? What are your thoughts about RC?

RC, if you’re town, don’t rush to make a decision. Read over things. Consider the possibility of mcstab being scum. Some of what he did was sneaky and laid back but opportune. Very reminiscent of bluesteel’s mafia play.

Why is he still in the game? I said that dp 2 he’s the most experienced and most thought-to-be-town player here and he did not die so he was either mafia or chosen. So why is he still alive now that chosens can be killed? I don’t see why RC would keep him in the game because inte seems easier to convince. He apparently implied that I’d flip scum if whiskers flipped chosen, so I have no reason to keep him over inte.

I know I didn’t play too great yesterday but I really believed whiskers was scum. I’m fully prepared to prove to you both that I am town. Ask me any questions about my behavior throughout the game.

I probably won't be on much longer but everyone: take it slow. we have 2 weeks so we can talk this out a lot before having to decide.

[rapidcanyon]

Eidolon, what "malicious" things could I have said?

[Eidolon]

The way you were complimenting me after i hammered. What we said to each other was genuine. If you were scum doing that it would have been malicious.

[rapidcanyon]

Why did you believe McStab's story so easily?

Why was I your best lynch option day 2 if you thought I was town?

If I were lynched and flipped chosen, why did Grey try to pin the blame on McStab as opposed to you?

[Eidolon]

I think it's pretty clear that you're town. I've never seen you do something like that before as mafia (the way you steered away from a quick lynch.) The frustration and then the releif after the hammer happened.

I think it's funny that mcstab implied that we both have to think the other is town and not him.

PEDIT:

I guess i fell for his buddying, just like i always fall for bluesteel when he's mafia. What he said about pasch's lynch just didn't seem like something mafia would say. He basically said "yeah, i just wanted the info, i wasn't sure he was town" It seemed too confident for scum.

Did i say you were the best lynch option day 2? We lynched greywing that day.

Grey said that if you were chosen, he'd check me out and THEN Mcstab. so he was setting up MY lynch by that, not mcstab.

[Eidolon]

have to think the other is scum^

[rapidcanyon]

I agree with what Eidolon said.

1) She is really sneaky as mafia. She wouldn't lead a lynch on a townie, especially not a chosen townie. She only does this as town.

2) Her trying to lynch me was wierd. But I can understand if I played scummily unvoting on McStab. She would have a legitimate reason for going after me.

3) I was acting a bit off last day phase. I just wanted to hear whiskers out. I don't think if Eidolon was scum, she would have called me out on yelling so much. But if she were town, I'd find it far more likely she would be direct/confrontational with me.

4) Here is the KEY part: Eidolon was the first to lay off of me and say that she thought I was town on day 2. Only AFTER she did this did McStab lay off and go for Grey. SHE was the one leading the day phase, not McStab.

I believe Eidolon completely at this point.

VOTE: McStab