Why does Jemina calling you scum create such an emotional response from you? I didn't really think that her suspicion on you really warranted #1317...
I'm done making big cases for a little while, but after I wake up...
I will drown you in a pool of your own blood...
I will drown Aunt Jemina in a pool of her own rancid syrup. Fun fact: Real Maple Syrup is much better than the artery rotting Aunt Jemina.
It pisses me off that Aunt Jemina comes in here thinking she owns the place and that her word is infallible. She gave no second thought at all to my alignment. She saw what she wanted to see. She fucking used tells from another player in another game and applied them this game. Specifically to ME. What sense does that make?
As far as I know she has never played with me. She didn't even give a look at Saulres's Micro game where I have a clear and present difference in my tactics as scum than what she presented here. I'll link you to the scum QT for that game. Read how I advise against killing people who suspect me precisely for the reason that Aunt Jemina says I would kill them... I play a much more calculated and cold game as scum. I had to replace out because I could not give that game the proper amount of attention it needed due to my sickness. I stayed in this game because I felt others could pick up for my slack being town and the fact that it was farther along at that point.
I wouldn't give town a bread crumb map through nightkills. That is stupid. That is sloppy. It is poor play.
You were IN that game Zabriel. Does my play here look anything at all like my play there? I mentioned my scumpartner Shuriken a total of 9 times in my iso. 5 out of those 9 where in one post and two others were answering Shuri by name.
Does that look like the type of "connections" that I built here with McStab? No. They are completly different.
I realize my interactions look bad but I am asking you to truly look at everything I've said and everything I've done.
You say that my fakeclaim is bad because McStab fakeclaimed, but let me first point out why my fakeclaim is completely different from McStabs as well as DoomYoshi's.
DY wanted to take a hit for the Innocent Child. That is town thought.
McStab claimed to 1) out other roles since he was "T2", and 2) to save his own life.
Where does my vig claim fall in that? I claimed not for my own life. Talk had already been established that the Vig was going to be lynched if they claimed. Why would I claim at that juncture? Because it had become clear that the Vig was not a Vig based on the nightkills. He would have listened to Rainbow spewing about the anti-town aspect of vigging nonconfirmed scum.
I knew that an SK existed and I claimed in order to look at everyone's reactions. That is how I got you and Nacho. You both had awkward interactions with that whole ordeal and while I was wrong about the SK and the other scum I was only wrong about the other scum because I had slated him as town due to his claim. Not by his play. That is an important distinction to make because I am almost positive Aunt Jemina was going after the "play" based aspect from her game that just finished which falls on its face here in addition to being absurd to apply to a completely different person.
I did not claim with the intention of riding the claim out. I had a specific purpose to analyze people's interactions after the claim. You can even see from DDD's iso when he pointed out "This doens't look legit" that I was not setting up for that claim and it was completely spur of the moment. That is sloppy. That is not clean. That is not a risk I would ever take as scum.
I even fucking said that I would be fine dying that day for lying about the claim as long as you and Nacho died. Does that look like smart play when my partner had already been locked into a T2 claim when no T1 existed?
Up until this vote, Nacho has me listed as town and expresses interest in lynching Zab.
What made him switch his opinions of me? Well, the fact that I voted him after realizing he had to be the second scum member.
He lists me several times during the day that I am his strongest townread, yet all of that does not matter when he places the vote on me? That is not the play of a person who has a town role PM.
He has no self remorse for being wrong about me. Instead he is playing a reactionary battle letting the antiCartographer sentiments fly while he coasts under the radar. He is not stretching out his neck and he is not engaging me. The posts so far in the last two pages have all been undermining pot shots aimed to make my credibility falter in your eyes, Zab.
Ask yourself these questions. What happened to Nacho's "strong" townread on me? What happened to his interest in lynching you?
Control F "Cartographer" in Nacho's isos and you will see what I mean.
He is following the others in the town in order to blend in and Aunt Jemina put the fucking gun in his hand yesterday with her stupidly strongwilled play.
She didn't even fucking analyze Nacho. She got the idea stuck in her head that I was scum and then had bias when reading through my posts and the interactions with McStab.
I have given you proof that those actions are not scum Cartographer actions. They are town Cartographer actions that did not know better.
I can do a post analysis of all of Nacho's posts, but for now I am going to defend myself from Aunt Jemina's comments since that is what you seem to be basing your read off.
Carty, deary, my point is that you don't know who killed who. Stabby is claiming it was the scum killing inte, but how do we know that it wasn't the SK killing inte and the scum killed Rainbow?[/quote]
When you are looking at the game from my point of view and the frame job that you gobbled up like it was cake on your birthday, it is obvious who they killed. The scum team did not kill Rainbow because they wanted to ride out more of her paranoia inducing fear and get more people lynched, ultimately with a Rainbow lynch as well.
The bit from McStab is a pathetic attempt at a bus. He is keeping the two people that I fucking espoused as suspicious so he can by himself more time. Up that point he was fine. He realized his ass was gone now that the mass claim was commencing and he needed to induce as much confusing scenarios and WIFOM as he possibly could.
I have been calling for Nacho's death for a very long time. The fact that it didn't happen when it easily could WAY before this point means that he is scum or else his wagon would have gotten *somewhere*.
Going through the other dead...Rainbow's last mention of a living player besides Stabby was also suspicious of you, carty.
Are you saying I killed both of them? You are an idiot.
Since you seem to be ignoring the obvious anti Nacho sentiments that inte was carrying. Notice how Nacho just brushes off inte whereas I try to engage with him for his unfounded kill Carto opinion that was based on a previous dealing with a predecessor.
Spoiler: inte quotes
In post 350, inte wrote:yoshi when are you going to stop being opportunistic?
inte: Pretty solid scum read, here. I found his "reaction testing" to be incredibly forced and fake. I feel like the suspicion against Yoshi was garbage, and based on absolutely nothing but hot air. The sudden flip to Sivuere was scummy as hell, given that Bitmap had done the same thing and inte had completely ignored it. In fact, bitmap's post was worse. As noted, I hate the endless pleading to keep Defender around when inte agrees that we need to remove him eventually. I'd be really happy with an inte lynch.
it was forced and fake seeing as i'm not a dayvig.
can you seriously say to me that yoshi is being a productive town member and not giggle then, well, you need to re-read his iso. almost every single one of his votes have been opportunistic.
Siveure DtTrikyp's vote was an obvious opportunistic and anti-town hunting vote.
call me anti-town, spit at me, and request a PL? sure.
call me anti-town, actively pursue my lynch, then ambiguously switch reasons for lynching me when queried? scummy as fuark
bitmap is not doing the same thing. he did a faggy OMGUS, but i can see the town motivation in it because of the last game we played. not alignment indicative. i might be convinced to lynch him if someone puts together something thats not an issue with playstyle. so far i've not seen anything genuinely scummy.
i've played at least two games with d3f3n3r, once as a scum buddy, and one as a fellow townie. both times he was a hindrance to his team and i would rather actually lynch someone that can give us information for us to go off of.
you stink of opportunism. worse, you replaced into elmo's slot who i always read as scummy (similar to d3f3nd3r)
inte- What is your case against Carto? What don't you like about nachomomma?
my case of based off Sivure's actions. they were terrible enough for me to have a 99.96% scum read on him.
i hate getting stuck with my replacement's actions, but idk if i'm called a hypocrite.
In post 336, Nachomamma8 wrote:I want to vote inte so badly right now.
Cartographer is being too town right here, so I suppose I can't vote him now.
Whatever, this can be a placeholder for later.
No. It was forced and fake because you were trying way too hard to look like you were reaction fishing. It didn't feel like a legitimate attempt to do anything, it felt like you pretending to be productive. That should have been obvious, and I have to believe you're being obtuse.
and what about Demon Core? he did the exact same thing (hyperbole, in case you try to spin this against me), the post before, yet you make no mention of him. actually you read him as a town gut-read and you agree with his though processes. so is this a point for or against me?
(referring to d3f3nd3r) So, he's a hindrance to his team. You agree. So we lynch him and he flips town, we get rid of a key distraction and possible ML target in later days (and now the vig doesn't have to shoot him), and if he's scum... we lynch scum. I'm really failing to see why you have repeated pushed to do anything BUT lynch him. If all you were saying was "Well, defender is a lynch I could agree with, but I do feel like we could be going in another direction given the possibility of a vig, and that's definitely something we should explore"- you know, what I've established as my position, but you're not saying that. You're say "Let's ASSUME there's a vig, and not lynch him. 'cause it'll be a useless lynch."
so are you in favor or against the d3f3nd3r lynch? as far as i can tell you agree with me, but this seems to me a big point in your case.
are you criticizing the way i said it? if so, thats a playstyle issue.
(referring to yoshi) Yep, he's definitely solely been opportunistic. Which is why he just unvoted defender, the obvious opportunistic lynch (the VI who basically nobody has much of a problem with lynching), essentially killing possible momentum, right? It's not as though the wagon was dying down- Applejack had just joined it, making it the biggest wagon in the game. If anything, there was every reason to believe a Defender lynch could easily go through.
(referring to bit towards rbd) Explain the town motivation, or meta if the game isn't ongoing.
last game RBD was the leading factor to town's demise. its only natural he would be suspicious as town
his playstyle is similar to my own
Oh, wait. I'm sorry. That's the ONLY post you've made about elmo. Until I show up and call you scum. Yeah, this reeks of OMGUS. Why did you never mention this "scumread" until just now?
? do you always mention people that you have a hard time reading? i've played with elmo prob 4 or so games before and every one of them have been near VI tier play. hence i always read him as scummy
Sivure wasn't particularly townie. That's fine. What do you think of Carto's actual play? Because that's what I'm basing my town read on.
most of it i didn't read
(about nacho) You realize people change their minds upon rereading and current postings, right? Like I did to some degree above with Yoshi?
i didn't even post in the time between his stance flip
yeah man sure people can change their reads, but i took "inte is town" as "inte is obvious town and shouldn't be ever lynched"
confident statements like that always have larger connotations.
it benefits him by attempting to get one of his proponents to his buddy's lynch, lynched
actually bump Azusa to an alternative to a lynch today
In post 381, inte wrote:i will bring up a couple of points that do need addressing though
1) i will concede the point about Demon Core. i did not read your entire post
2) most of Yoshi's play strikes me as newb scum, so yes, i wouldn't put it behind him to do something like that
3) i thought the way i worded my point about elmo was clear.
i always read him as scum
should have implied that i've played with him enough
4) if nacho parks his vote on someone who is mislynched then it gives him town cred
In post 416, inte wrote:
yeah sure man i can't change reads either. nope not allowed
So, let's see here. (My apologies for falsely claiming you'd said nothing about Rainbowdash, btw. I always think of them as Rainbow, so I didn't think to check for rbd. If I missed any other comments, let me know.)
In everyearlierpost in which you mention Rainbow, you either state or imply that you think they are scummy, without giving any reasoning. Now suddenly you've swung around and said that Rainbow is town, without giving any reasoning. In fact, outright refusing to. You're right. This is completely innocuous. I'm just confused- if you found a towntell strong enough to override a feeling you seem to have had for a good chunk of the game... why are you refusing to share it? How is this pro-town in any way?
Admittedly, the only way I see it benefitting intescum is distancing from a Rainbowtown lynch, that doesn't make it not weird as hell.
And I've already explained why I consider this vastly different from the instance of Nacho, although here we also have a larger sample size, thus making the sudden change even weirder. Also, what happened to Nacho being scummy because he changed his mind on you without explanation? Or is it only scummy when other people do it?
rbd is a player who needs to be scrutinized. any alignment shes a force to pay attention to.
Also, what happened to Nacho being scummy because he changed his mind on you without explanation? Or is it only scummy when other people do it?
pretty much
In post 1278, Aunt Jemina wrote:In Carty's favor, this same post contained an FoS to Nacho, but Glados was showing clear suspicion at Carty's claim, and for thinking zabby was an SK.
In summary, 4/5 of the dead town had suspicions on Carty. DDD looks like he suspected Nacho, but it's not clear. I think this old lady has a little more work than anticipated, since the only way I'm going to be certain is with a read of the thread, but I'm a good 75% on Carty being sour.
I couldn't have killed all of them you realize this right? You are using "could have" "appears" and "might have" to justify your suspicion on me. You don't even know for certain whether Bitmap investigated Nacho.
Glados was a good player and very likely to not be lynched. Killing her before the game really started for her is the best bet that the scum could have hoped for. Glados expressing suspicion about my claim is hardly worth killing someone over whereas their reputation as player is.
I like how you are an "old" lady yet you memory of history. Clearly you are not as "old" as you think.
In post 1056, McStab wrote:Cartographer's fakeclaim was bad and I really have no clue what compelled him to do it,
it seems weird even for scum
This line is of particular interest to my eyes. He pushes DY for fakeclaiming, but not Carty for his fakeclaim; carty's fakeclaim was confusing and "weird", but despite being "bad", is not considered sour. His interactions with Carty are the exact same type of distancing I just experienced in my last game, with regards to Sally and Huntress's slot, with the same progression: distancing, but ultimately keeping away from lynching each other, and ultimately making a play for the win. (In this case, trying a zabby lynch.) The trick's even older than I am.
Or this is typical scum going along with the sentiments of town. Not many people thought I was scum for my claim and McStab's comment is the typical scum opinion that just because something happened they have to comment on it.
In post 1280, Aunt Jemina wrote:Skimming Carty's iso, I confirmed the exact interaction I suspected would be there if Stabby were scum--defense in some places, distancing in others, but despite hard pushes on Stabby, never putting stabby in danger of death. The switch from stabby to defender shows one instance of this.
This old lady is a little bit tired from exhaustion already; the body does not work as much when you get to be my age. I need sleep before I tackle the whole thread, but carty's looking worse and worse.
This little old lady is a bottle of fucking maple syrup. she probably has dementia as well.
You are viewing my iso in the light that you want to see it. You can't come into the thread with opinions already preformed and without analyzing every aspect of the game. You focused me and *only* me despite my calls to look into Nacho.
Is that town play? Is that arrogance?
In post 1283, Aunt Jemina wrote:Carty, deary, that is precisely why I am reading the thread. As a nice old lady, it's my job to be impartial. It's simply that what I'm seeing is heavily pointing your way for being sour. For instance, your predecessor's replacing out looks like a replace due to being scum under pressure, considering less than a month later Sivvy was back to playing games. Add in your entrance post leaving a bitter taste in my mouth and your voting of Nacho combined with my womanly intuition and you're just the person who looks most sour. I'm still reading, so I'm not willing to make that call yet, but your posting is not making a strong case for you being sweet at all.
You are a horrible person to think that anyone would do that. You are a bad player to think that a lot can happen within 3 weeks to think that replacing out is a scumtell.
If Zab does give into your assuming and biased case then I am going to relish rubbing it in your face that you were wrong. Absolutely going to relish it.
In post 1302, Aunt Jemina wrote:Actually, I just realized something. Stabby's most likely a goon, but he could be the godfather. If he were, then it'd greatly increase Nacho's chances of being town. VOTE: Stabby.
I haven't finished reading, but we should still be lynching the sour player first, for confirmation.
There you go again with no substantive proof that McStab investigated Nacho.
In post 1305, Aunt Jemina wrote:Working in Carty's favor is how strongly Nacho was defending Stabby, but working against Carty is the very things which on the surface would look as if they work in his favor: the distancing votes they placed on one another that put neither in any serious danger. Carty's accidental hammer of defender doesn't do him any favors, either.
You even agree that nacho is connected with McStab and yet my interactions are somehow worse. Look at the meta I provided earlier. This is not my scum play.
In post 1051, McStab wrote:We need to put LaL into effect. Doom not taking the shot is suspicious, and Carto's supposed trap was weird as hell and didn't strike me as effective. Does anyone in here feel comfortable with either of them lasting till LyLo?
Stabby supported LaL on Doomy, but the later play quite clearly shows he didn't support it on Carty.
He talked the talk, but when push came to shove, he didn't walk the walk.
Following the town.... if you read this in context it would be apparent. Look at what the other town players said and then look at what McStab said. He is basically parroting them, but just applying his own little twists to make the comments seem original.
In post 1153, Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:Becuase of that fact I'm tempted to say he's actually mafia using this tactic to stay in the game and
try and divert the lynch from his partner
because that at least makes more sense.
This
is why DDD ended up dead. Stabby outlined Zabby and Nacho as scum, diverting attention away from Carty.
I am looking at DDD's iso because I honestly thought that maybe by some stars aligned mystical voodoo she was right that DDD heavily suspected me.... but I can't find it.
I'm not even sure Aunt Jemina and I are even reading the same game. DDD's iso clearly has me as town of sorts. It may not be strong town, but he has me as towns and even says that my fake claim is town.
Applying the same tells that Aunt Jemina is to McStab, DDD says he isn't interested in LaL, he just wants to lynch DY (not me). Does this fit your stupid little puzzle? Because it doesn't. That is essentially the same thing that McStab said about me. Your puzzle is clearly missing a few, important pieces for you to get the big picture.
Very happy to spread paranoia about the ponies without actually taking them on early in the game; has ended up in bad position on a pair of town lynches; and lately has seemed to care far more about the numbers than who is actually scum.
I'm not voting for zabriel because I refuse to vote in the direction McStab wants me to vote; I still think Cartogropher's bizarre play makes more sense from town that scum. Nacho is probably my second choice but I want to see how things will roll with solidstate's name out there.
Does that look like DDD thought Nacho was "town"? He lists him as his second lynch candidate.
In post 1310, Aunt Jemina wrote:And I know it's not exactly standard, but I'm going to employ some good points from flipped anti-town since I'm a bit of an eccentric lady.
Reasoning:
1) Going way back, the RBD wagon. Nacho's comment about that wagon has since been proven true (mcstab is scum), a second one on it (variety of scum doesn't matter here) is not implausible.
2) Today, McStab said he will lynch me, Zab, or Nacho. The fact that he didn't include Carto is noteworthy whether he's mafia or SK (SK just wants a mislynch, mafia obviously will protect its partner). Also see the next:
3) McStab's fakeclaim came before Carto had massclaimed (they came before DDD had as well, but he'd sort of quasi-claimed accusing McStab). If he was faking SK to keep his partner from getting caught, speaking before the other scum claimed is helpful.
4) All of my town read on him was really residual day 1. Carto's play since then has definitely not improved. The vigilante gambit is just as logical (or even more logical) as an attempt to draw a town counterclaim to get a PR target for the mafia.
I've been doing rereads for associative tells but there's a lot of game out there. I think I'm happy with this for now.
First, why are you even listening to Solid? He wants to lynch anyone that isn't him?
1). That isn't even a point. It is a "meh, this could happen" just like all of your assumed facts about McStab's investigation and applying the actions of scum from another game to this game as if all scum are going to behave exactly the same especially when I have clear evidence of my own meta describing the exact opposite of what you are trying to sell, Aunt Jemina.
2). He tied himself to me. The moment he claimed T2 he knew come mass claim time he was going down. Why the fuck would he ever do that as a two man scumteam with his only person? No, he did it to get another mislynch. You are right he did it to protect his partner. He did it to get another mislynch to PROTECT his partner.
3). As I said in 2, tieing himself to another townie is exactly the protection that his partner needed. Unless you are literally in imminent win status, tying yourself to your ONLY partner via a fakeclaim is one of the most ballsy moves you could ever do and not worth it.
4). In what world would claiming PR at that time when 2 nightkills had happened be outting a PR? It was obvious that the Vigilante was not a Vigilante.
I think that is everything, Zab.
If you have any questions about anything I've said please do ask.
I gave you links to my scumgame. Please read it. You were in it so you might remember. I am not playing the way I played there in anyway shape or form.
Going through the other dead...Rainbow's last mention of a living player besides Stabby was also suspicious of you, carty.
Are you saying I killed both of them? You are an idiot.
Since you seem to be ignoring the obvious anti Nacho sentiments that inte was carrying. Notice how Nacho just brushes off inte whereas I try to engage with him for his unfounded kill Carto opinion that was based on a previous dealing with a predecessor.
Spoiler: inte quotes
In post 350, inte wrote:yoshi when are you going to stop being opportunistic?
inte: Pretty solid scum read, here. I found his "reaction testing" to be incredibly forced and fake. I feel like the suspicion against Yoshi was garbage, and based on absolutely nothing but hot air. The sudden flip to Sivuere was scummy as hell, given that Bitmap had done the same thing and inte had completely ignored it. In fact, bitmap's post was worse. As noted, I hate the endless pleading to keep Defender around when inte agrees that we need to remove him eventually. I'd be really happy with an inte lynch.
it was forced and fake seeing as i'm not a dayvig.
can you seriously say to me that yoshi is being a productive town member and not giggle then, well, you need to re-read his iso. almost every single one of his votes have been opportunistic.
Siveure DtTrikyp's vote was an obvious opportunistic and anti-town hunting vote.
call me anti-town, spit at me, and request a PL? sure.
call me anti-town, actively pursue my lynch, then ambiguously switch reasons for lynching me when queried? scummy as fuark
bitmap is not doing the same thing. he did a faggy OMGUS, but i can see the town motivation in it because of the last game we played. not alignment indicative. i might be convinced to lynch him if someone puts together something thats not an issue with playstyle. so far i've not seen anything genuinely scummy.
i've played at least two games with d3f3n3r, once as a scum buddy, and one as a fellow townie. both times he was a hindrance to his team and i would rather actually lynch someone that can give us information for us to go off of.
you stink of opportunism. worse, you replaced into elmo's slot who i always read as scummy (similar to d3f3nd3r)
inte- What is your case against Carto? What don't you like about nachomomma?
my case of based off Sivure's actions. they were terrible enough for me to have a 99.96% scum read on him.
i hate getting stuck with my replacement's actions, but idk if i'm called a hypocrite.
In post 336, Nachomamma8 wrote:I want to vote inte so badly right now.
Cartographer is being too town right here, so I suppose I can't vote him now.
Whatever, this can be a placeholder for later.
No. It was forced and fake because you were trying way too hard to look like you were reaction fishing. It didn't feel like a legitimate attempt to do anything, it felt like you pretending to be productive. That should have been obvious, and I have to believe you're being obtuse.
and what about Demon Core? he did the exact same thing (hyperbole, in case you try to spin this against me), the post before, yet you make no mention of him. actually you read him as a town gut-read and you agree with his though processes. so is this a point for or against me?
(referring to d3f3nd3r) So, he's a hindrance to his team. You agree. So we lynch him and he flips town, we get rid of a key distraction and possible ML target in later days (and now the vig doesn't have to shoot him), and if he's scum... we lynch scum. I'm really failing to see why you have repeated pushed to do anything BUT lynch him. If all you were saying was "Well, defender is a lynch I could agree with, but I do feel like we could be going in another direction given the possibility of a vig, and that's definitely something we should explore"- you know, what I've established as my position, but you're not saying that. You're say "Let's ASSUME there's a vig, and not lynch him. 'cause it'll be a useless lynch."
so are you in favor or against the d3f3nd3r lynch? as far as i can tell you agree with me, but this seems to me a big point in your case.
are you criticizing the way i said it? if so, thats a playstyle issue.
(referring to yoshi) Yep, he's definitely solely been opportunistic. Which is why he just unvoted defender, the obvious opportunistic lynch (the VI who basically nobody has much of a problem with lynching), essentially killing possible momentum, right? It's not as though the wagon was dying down- Applejack had just joined it, making it the biggest wagon in the game. If anything, there was every reason to believe a Defender lynch could easily go through.
(referring to bit towards rbd) Explain the town motivation, or meta if the game isn't ongoing.
last game RBD was the leading factor to town's demise. its only natural he would be suspicious as town
his playstyle is similar to my own
Oh, wait. I'm sorry. That's the ONLY post you've made about elmo. Until I show up and call you scum. Yeah, this reeks of OMGUS. Why did you never mention this "scumread" until just now?
? do you always mention people that you have a hard time reading? i've played with elmo prob 4 or so games before and every one of them have been near VI tier play. hence i always read him as scummy
Sivure wasn't particularly townie. That's fine. What do you think of Carto's actual play? Because that's what I'm basing my town read on.
most of it i didn't read
(about nacho) You realize people change their minds upon rereading and current postings, right? Like I did to some degree above with Yoshi?
i didn't even post in the time between his stance flip
yeah man sure people can change their reads, but i took "inte is town" as "inte is obvious town and shouldn't be ever lynched"
confident statements like that always have larger connotations.
it benefits him by attempting to get one of his proponents to his buddy's lynch, lynched
actually bump Azusa to an alternative to a lynch today
In post 381, inte wrote:i will bring up a couple of points that do need addressing though
1) i will concede the point about Demon Core. i did not read your entire post
2) most of Yoshi's play strikes me as newb scum, so yes, i wouldn't put it behind him to do something like that
3) i thought the way i worded my point about elmo was clear.
i always read him as scum
should have implied that i've played with him enough
4) if nacho parks his vote on someone who is mislynched then it gives him town cred
In post 416, inte wrote:
yeah sure man i can't change reads either. nope not allowed
So, let's see here. (My apologies for falsely claiming you'd said nothing about Rainbowdash, btw. I always think of them as Rainbow, so I didn't think to check for rbd. If I missed any other comments, let me know.)
In everyearlierpost in which you mention Rainbow, you either state or imply that you think they are scummy, without giving any reasoning. Now suddenly you've swung around and said that Rainbow is town, without giving any reasoning. In fact, outright refusing to. You're right. This is completely innocuous. I'm just confused- if you found a towntell strong enough to override a feeling you seem to have had for a good chunk of the game... why are you refusing to share it? How is this pro-town in any way?
Admittedly, the only way I see it benefitting intescum is distancing from a Rainbowtown lynch, that doesn't make it not weird as hell.
And I've already explained why I consider this vastly different from the instance of Nacho, although here we also have a larger sample size, thus making the sudden change even weirder. Also, what happened to Nacho being scummy because he changed his mind on you without explanation? Or is it only scummy when other people do it?
rbd is a player who needs to be scrutinized. any alignment shes a force to pay attention to.
Also, what happened to Nacho being scummy because he changed his mind on you without explanation? Or is it only scummy when other people do it?
In post 1001, Nachomamma8 wrote:Cool, Cartographer is crazy as fuck but probably town.
Please vote zabriel with me now.
Cartographer wrote:There was an overall sentiment of me being the one to get lynched. It is pretty selfish but I almost want to be lynched. I don't have the time I need for this game.
If this is the case, replace out. No shame in that.
but for the record,
Cartographer wrote:I know Nacho waited a long time while he was active on the site to post in this specific thread.
I was spamming specifically in this game because it was LyLo and I was quite close to death.
Has me as town...
In post 1052, Nachomamma8 wrote:We are massclaiming. There is no reason for any discussion to happen before we are finished.
Wants to stifle discussion so that things will go his way that day.
In post 1075, Cartographer wrote:I really don't think DY would do this. I had already claimed and lied. Why needlessly out himself? He could ride
the LaL sentiment for a day or more.
Gladys, what is your opinion of DY?
As scum, he just saw that you claimed and lied and managed to get away with it. If he were scum, he could want to hide in the VT claims instead of the PR claims, and after your claim, could have decided to risk it instead of risk both partners getting caught. But I don't necessarily believe that, and I need to do a little rereading before I decide what to do next.
Right now, my initial thought is still massclaiming. If DY is town and just switched his doctor claim to a townie claim, we could be catching scum slipping right now as long as NO ONE ELSE LIES. But seriously, read RBD's posts about people lying about claims in this setup because it literally fucks everything up.
Has me as town and he himself follows that lynch DY but save Cartographer for later sentiment that literally EVERYONE FUCKING SAID AUNT JEMINA.
In post 1077, zabriel wrote:Carto's defense of DY is interesting. I don't want to lynch DY today. I'm not sure about Cartographer. He could be jumping to the defense to keep a townish read on himself, especially after bizarro fake Vig. There's too much crazy going on.
At this point, I'm just kind of feeling Nacho. I don't have much concrete that I can point to right now, just a feeling about it.
If I was stuck with it, town would lose. Keep me alive now, feel free to Vig or kill me closer to LyLo.
Who the hell called Defender scum? He's expressing that he doesn't want to be around at LyLo so he doesn't fuck up the game-ending decision, which implies that he will be making the decision, which implies that he will be town enough to be confirmed town by that point. Sorry, but he is not such a gifted scumplayer where he manages to throw that bit of subtlety in a post which is asking to be lynched before LyLo. nope nope nope.
Elmo gave me a pretty strong townread for the whole push and pull with trying to get into the game, and Azusa is giving me a townread for a soft defending me a little bit initially, and then slowly letting paranoia creep into his posting.
so add those two to the townread pile of 'stab, cartographer, inte again, bitmap, and kind of doom, and it means I actually have to put effort into reading the ponies.
In post 409, Nachomamma8 wrote:i'm calling scum in {mcstab, bitmap, cartographer}, actually.
rbd is town and someone put suspicion on her, and I bet you scum couldn't resist fueling the paranoia somewhat.
In post 601, Nachomamma8 wrote:the fighting is stupid, though.
also no lynching applejack.
no lynching mcstab, and no making him claim. might change later, we'll see.
Applejack-RBD scumteam if two person setup,
Applejack-RBD-Azusa scumteam if three person scumteam setup
Applejack-RBD scumteam with Nacho SK if 2:1 setup
And I will brag about calling it when proven correct after the game is over
nacho sk, defending two scum and lynching town
because nacho sk really gives a fuck about who gets lynched
incidentally, the scumteam obviously is blatantly defending each other to the hilt because why the fuck not? that makes sense
GET YOUR HEAD IN THE GAME
I expect your vote when defender flips scum
and mostly silence except when i give you permission to speak
In post 757, McStab wrote:Rainbow, if you seriously think lynching lurkers when you have 30 pages of content and you supposedly have a handful of strong scum and townreads is a good thing, then you're either scum looking for an easy target or you don't know how to scumhunt. I know for a fact it can't be the second, because you're a good scumhunter.
scum is scum
the fuck does it matter how much he posts?
d3f3n3r lynch tells us nothing about the alignment of other players. he has zero associative tells
i would rather lynch mcstab over d3f3nd3r at this moment
inte, you don't understand how associative tells work if you think that's how things work
they go both ways
and I'm getting tons of good stuff
In post 859, Nachomamma8 wrote:Godfather flip was important because it pretty much confirms that we're in a two scum setup, which would mean that if the claimed letters showed differently, then we would know there were liars in the PR pool, and we would be able to lynch them accordingly without waiting until LyLo.
I like this last bit because Nacho has been saying things that others were not completely fine with such as RBD town and inte obvtown.
Him labelling inte as obvtown and noting the soft claims makes it more likely that he felt inte was a PR of sorts and makes even more sense for him to kill him.
In post 1001, Nachomamma8 wrote:Cool, Cartographer is crazy as fuck but probably town.
Please vote zabriel with me now.
Cartographer wrote:There was an overall sentiment of me being the one to get lynched. It is pretty selfish but I almost want to be lynched. I don't have the time I need for this game.
If this is the case, replace out. No shame in that.
but for the record,
Cartographer wrote:I know Nacho waited a long time while he was active on the site to post in this specific thread.
I was spamming specifically in this game because it was LyLo and I was quite close to death.
Has me as town...
In post 1052, Nachomamma8 wrote:We are massclaiming. There is no reason for any discussion to happen before we are finished.
Wants to stifle discussion so that things will go his way that day.
In post 1075, Cartographer wrote:I really don't think DY would do this. I had already claimed and lied. Why needlessly out himself? He could ride
the LaL sentiment for a day or more.
Gladys, what is your opinion of DY?
As scum, he just saw that you claimed and lied and managed to get away with it. If he were scum, he could want to hide in the VT claims instead of the PR claims, and after your claim, could have decided to risk it instead of risk both partners getting caught. But I don't necessarily believe that, and I need to do a little rereading before I decide what to do next.
Right now, my initial thought is still massclaiming. If DY is town and just switched his doctor claim to a townie claim, we could be catching scum slipping right now as long as NO ONE ELSE LIES. But seriously, read RBD's posts about people lying about claims in this setup because it literally fucks everything up.
Has me as town and he himself follows that lynch DY but save Cartographer for later sentiment that literally EVERYONE FUCKING SAID AUNT JEMINA.
In post 1077, zabriel wrote:Carto's defense of DY is interesting. I don't want to lynch DY today. I'm not sure about Cartographer. He could be jumping to the defense to keep a townish read on himself, especially after bizarro fake Vig. There's too much crazy going on.
At this point, I'm just kind of feeling Nacho. I don't have much concrete that I can point to right now, just a feeling about it.
Cartographer wrote:Fake rage typical in today's scum meta.
I don't really think that you're one to talk about fake rage, actually. The complete and total rage at Aunt Jemina for the scumread on you seems pretty contrived to me and more of an effort to discredit her than anything.
Cartographer wrote:I play a much more calculated and cold game as scum.
Cartographer wrote:I wouldn't give town a bread crumb map through nightkills. That is stupid. That is sloppy. It is poor play.
Essentially, you are claiming that your play is way too terrible this game in order for you to be scum, which not exactly a valid defense. I also find it funny how you get so frustrated when you are accused of killing people who suspect them, and yet you always always always refer back to the inte kill on N1 as a sign of me being obvious scum, even though the IC who tunneled on me pretty much the entire game was left alive until recently and you are STILL alive and have been pushing me for a while as scum, as you like to say. If you want to call me scum based on nightkill analysis, then why exactly would I kill inte and leave everyone else who suspects me alive until the day before LyLo?
Cartographer wrote:Ask yourself these questions. What happened to Nacho's "strong" townread on me? What happened to his interest in lynching you?
It's not so strong anymore when you're voted in LyLo and no one quickhammers, believe it or not. And I had decent interest in lynching Zab until the whole McStab pushing him thing happened (which I touched on before), and the Solidstate SK flip sort of help things along even more. I wasn't *positive* you were scum when you voted me, but it certainly upped the chances quite a bit.
Outting the Vig/SK, and pulling off interactions with McStab so that no one would think you were scum?
I mean, a lot of thought wasn't put into your interactions with your partner last game, so surely you couldn't have seen how that was a poor play for you before and rectified it with a little help from your scumbuddy, right?
In post 1327, Cartographer wrote:I have been calling for Nacho's death for a very long time. The fact that it didn't happen when it easily could WAY before this point means that he is scum or else his wagon would have gotten *somewhere*.
This is bullshit reasoning. I pushed the zabriel wagon for a pretty long time, and it didn't really get anywhere after many attempts on my part.
"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.
Cartographer wrote:Fake rage typical in today's scum meta.
I don't really think that you're one to talk about fake rage, actually. The complete and total rage at Aunt Jemina for the scumread on you seems pretty contrived to me and more of an effort to discredit her than anything.
Cartographer wrote:I play a much more calculated and cold game as scum.
Cartographer wrote:I wouldn't give town a bread crumb map through nightkills. That is stupid. That is sloppy. It is poor play.
Essentially, you are claiming that your play is way too terrible this game in order for you to be scum, which not exactly a valid defense. I also find it funny how you get so frustrated when you are accused of killing people who suspect them, and yet you always always always refer back to the inte kill on N1 as a sign of me being obvious scum, even though the IC who tunneled on me pretty much the entire game was left alive until recently and you are STILL alive and have been pushing me for a while as scum, as you like to say. If you want to call me scum based on nightkill analysis, then why exactly would I kill inte and leave everyone else who suspects me alive until the day before LyLo?
Cartographer wrote:Ask yourself these questions. What happened to Nacho's "strong" townread on me? What happened to his interest in lynching you?
It's not so strong anymore when you're voted in LyLo and no one quickhammers, believe it or not. And I had decent interest in lynching Zab until the whole McStab pushing him thing happened (which I touched on before), and the Solidstate SK flip sort of help things along even more. I wasn't *positive* you were scum when you voted me, but it certainly upped the chances quite a bit.
Outting the Vig/SK, and pulling off interactions with McStab so that no one would think you were scum?
I mean, a lot of thought wasn't put into your interactions with your partner last game, so surely you couldn't have seen how that was a poor play for you before and rectified it with a little help from your scumbuddy, right?
In post 1327, Cartographer wrote:I have been calling for Nacho's death for a very long time. The fact that it didn't happen when it easily could WAY before this point means that he is scum or else his wagon would have gotten *somewhere*.
This is bullshit reasoning. I pushed the zabriel wagon for a pretty long time, and it didn't really get anywhere after many attempts on my part.
"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.
Cartographer wrote:I play a much more calculated and cold game as scum. I had to replace out because I could not give that game the proper amount of attention it needed due to my sickness. I stayed in this game because I felt others could pick up for my slack being town and the fact that it was farther along at that point.
I am really sorry for Saul. I was actually going to truck through it, but he actively replace me anyway. That made me feel like I was holding other games back too.
Did a little research because my curiosity got the better of me, and look what I found?
Cartographer, why would you pretend that you replaced out in another game because you were scum and didn't want to let your teammates down and stayed with this one because others could pick up your slack when that clearly wasn't the case?
"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.
A lot of thought was put into my interaction with Shurkiem last game. I made sure my interaction with him appeared natural. The fact that you are trying to use adaptation when you hardly know me as a reason for me being scum is hilarious. You are grasping at straws.
My fake rage? I'm normally a collected person but Aunt Jemina's arrogance pushed me over the edge. I mean what I said about her. While I may not completely want the Earth's surface to kill her there was definitely anger in there.
When I play like shit and it is a clear difference from my scum play, yes I will show everyone that.
I have already pointed out in the inte quote section and your section that you thought he was a) obvtown, b) soft claiming, and c) suspicious of you. You killed him out of fear.
I had a talk with Saul prior to him replacing me, in that I said I would try to make the effort but we then both agreed it would not wise in case further complications appeared. That is why I replaced out of another game that had just started that you can probably find.
I stayed in this one because it was farther along and because I was town. There is no way I would have hurt my buddy by staying in and barely playing for days like I unfortunately did here.
Nacho, you pushing the Zab wagon is basically "I don't like him!" "let's lynch him!" etc. that isn't a push. That is the type of activity common for scum.
Nice desperate attempts to make anything I say appear worse.
Nacho was pretty quick to vote Carto, which means that he's feeling confident about his reads and willing to trust me with the hammer. In my experience scum tend to like to hang back so they can hammer.
Okay, so Carto is seeming kind of obvious right now. I like Aunt Jemima's reasoning. I don't like the fake claim, I don't like how McStab interacted with the fake claim. If for some reason Cart is town, I'm sorry.
VOTE: Cartographer
Let this be a lesson to not fakeclaim a PR in an open game.
Hungry Man reaches for the obligatory bucket of popcorn as a console window appears on screen to start scanning the recently destroyed file. That wasn't the hard drive exploding, was it?
"Or the power's gone and that's a bunch of torches and pitchforks headed our way."
*the two look out the window*
...
...
...
"Yup, the power's gone. The mainframe's dead. Nobody's happy down there."
The two "technicians" rush out of the building, then high five each other. The manager on duty calls the cops, but it's too late, they've already shipped up to Boston. Espionage mission complete.
<3 McStab so much. So, so much. There were many different situations in which we could have been completely fucked, but he was able to adapt quickly enough for us to hold on a bit longer. McStab can post the QT if he wants, I definitely don't mind posting it.
"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.
That was actually a pretty good game, and you guys definitely deserved that win. I was actually starting to wonder about you, but in the end I felt that Cart deserved to die more. I still don't think I made the wrong call
In post 1344, Nachomamma8 wrote:<3 McStab so much. So, so much. There were many different situations in which we could have been completely fucked, but he was able to adapt quickly enough for us to hold on a bit longer. McStab can post the QT if he wants, I definitely don't mind posting it.
I need to enact a policy of "If Dash dies N1, you massclaim D2" or something like that... also town needs to stop fakeclaiming. Seriously. Although ironically it was why Cart was obviously town in this situation, but its still just going to mess stuff up.
Also you should have massclaimed D2, MS was already almost confirmed scum and two NKs made it very important to happen sooner rather then later as if MS was town it just cleared a few off and if he was scum... you wouldnt have wasted a few more days before you lynched him.
Once I knew Mcstab was fakeclaiming, I knew Nacho had to be scum but unfortunately, I died. I thought McStab was actually telling the truth meaning that I thought Nacho was a PR/RB.
Bleh.
"I give up on trying to read you. You're unimaginably scummy, with a dose of ultra-Town thrown in for spice."
