In post 1345, zabriel wrote:That was actually a pretty good game, and you guys definitely deserved that win. I was actually starting to wonder about you, but in the end I felt that Cart deserved to die more.
It was two things that should have made the Nacho vote better
1) The vig claim from Cart. If Cart was scum, they would know the vig was a SK to start given the setup. As they knew that, staying with the claim would attract attention of the SK and if they SK ever was forced to hit scum doomed the slot. Town would be more likely (sadly) to just try something like that spur of the moment.
2) Failed hammer by MS. No reason to fail at a hammer like that as scum, which means that Nacho was probably scum because of it. If they hit town, MS just would eat the NK. If they hit SK, MS eats the next lynch. Both give scum at worst a 2:1:1 endgame.
I need to find a way to ensure that my stuff gets paid attention to post my death more. I wanted that D2 MS lynch and if it happened that would have really put town in a better position.
I really liked this game, and to be frank, I think some of the play from the town, while suboptimal, may not have been as obvious in choices as others.
First, DoomYoshi fakeclaiming Doc was bad, but it really had some opportunity to it when he made it Day One. I'm not advocating it, but if I hadn't doubted his claim personally (me thinking he could be SK) I would easily have claimed One Shot Doc and he could've exposed me for the fake I am.
Second, Cartographer's play earlier on wasn't that great, but it was an admirable defence in LyLo, so congratulations on that.
Third, Zabriel essentially used Aunt Jemina's testimony as opposed to Nacho's arguments to make his decision in LyLo, and I thought Aunt Jemina's were very convincing (particularly coming from conf. town).
Fourth, we left the IC alive so long because really they were helping us, or at least not hurting us; that hurt the town, because it let us kill Glados kill Night Two and DDD Night Three, both of whom were real threats to us in an endgame scenario.
Fifth, my SK claim; I did it largely because anything else would get me insta lynched, and I felt that until the SK was dead this was too big of a risk. Plus it really was pivotal for scum; not because it changed town behaviour, but because it let us correctly identify the SK as Solidstate (hence my "the person in post 25 in the QT" comment to my partner) due to his reaction to my claim.
Sixth, the Day One play; I think this solidifies my view that factionalism can really hurt towns. The Applejack-RBD-Azusa vs. Me-Inte-Bitmap dynamic really opened the door for the possibility of a no lynch, allowed us to gauge chances of an SK, dismiss accusations as OMGUS, and ultimately opened the door for Nacho to push through a bipartisan Defender lynch. On a side note, I honestly don't think I did anything too unprofessional, but I am sorry if I happened to offend you Applejack; as for the replacement asking, I normally try not to target someone like that, but considering other people were using that as a defense of you, I felt as though it was fair game to use as an attack on you. Still, I have no hard feelings and I hope you feel the same.
Seventh, my failed hammer gambit. I decided to make it real obvious, hoping that people would pickup on how obvious it was; thankfully Nacho pointed this out early on too, so as to really increase the WIFOM effect.
Eighth, the NK explanations; we killed RBD first night due to her knowledge of setup spec, above all else. Inte dying was the last thing I wanted, but it did serve to muddy the waters when someone in my "faction" and someone on AJ's "faction" both flipped town. Glados died because of her competence; the SK killing Bitmap was a huge bonus, particularly before he revealed his result (which influenced Nacho being seen as town in LyLo). Finally, DDD died before the IC because he was more of a thorn in our side anyway.
Finally, thanks to all of you for playing, I hope all of you continue playing, and great to work with you as scum in a game Nacho, congrats on pulling off the LyLo win and helping guide through it, it was really a good job.
In post 1354, McStab wrote:First, DoomYoshi fakeclaiming Doc was bad, but it really had some opportunity to it when he made it Day One. I'm not advocating it, but if I hadn't doubted his claim personally (me thinking he could be SK) I would easily have claimed One Shot Doc and he could've exposed me for the fake I am.
I was praying for that actually.
Good game, eventually I will get good enough to hang you on day 1 when you are obvscum. I can't believe I wasn't even able to push a solidstate wagon either.
I'm really surprised how overclaimed this setup got. There was only one hidden Town PR in the whole lot, yet we had McStab, Cartographer, DoomYoshi all claiming and Bitmap inhibiting his role. I'm amazed it didn't all unravel sooner, but that was quite a tangled knot we had for a moment.
Pity seilkops never found the time to fully contribute. Town really could've used the insight or fair arbitration for instances such as determining whether or not to roleclaim or order or whatever.
McStab - why were you worried about powerroles in later Nights and avoiding getting Blocked? You knew Bitmap and solidstate were gone, that gave you all the information you needed to determine it didn't matter who did the kill in subsequent Nights.
I'm a bit annoyed with myself that I kept having to backtrack my flavor into different characters and different scenarios, I wish it had painted a more consistent story. Nonetheless, what'd you all think of the visual flavor and graphics stuff? Of the overall execution with prod/vote count frequencies? I'd give myself a B+ for the effort, it ran smoothly, but I wish I had posted vote counts more frequently, especially during certain high activity periods and when I said in the ruleset I'd aim for a daily rate.
Weirdly, Cartographer actually had a Last Online time of November 9th at the start of Day 5, never picking up the Night 4 PM I tried to send everyone in an attempt to accelerate the game. He posted right at Daybreak and the online time still didn't shift when he did, so maybe that was a red herring, but I thought that the game had nearly gotten broken by a technicality based on his last online time.
Kills were meant to be listed in alphabetical order, but both times ended up listing the SK kill before the Mafia's in the Nightkill role reveals.
I liked the graphics, constant updating of the front page, and the flavour was a nice touch too. Good modding yabba.
I wasn't worried insomuch as I like to minimize any possible risk. I knew it was virtually impossible that there was a PR remaining, but it could never hurt to have someone do it, since I was obviously a target whereas Nacho wouldn't have been. It's useless, but I'd rather keep the habit and not risk making a stupid mistake that costs me a game in the future.
As for the technicality on online time, I really dislike it, but found it hilarious when Thor send in his NKs early for every situation in Mini 1347, so when the next day came, someone was dead, it was LyLo and Thor had never been online, the two pro-town players crossvoted and Thor won an easy victory; a great example of a technicality backfiring on someone.
Uh no, he made a spite vote pretty much solely based around Cart being bad and fake-claiming. I understand that since the shift key eludes your grasp you might not understand things like motivations and subtlety but they're a bit important when it comes to mafia.
