Mafia 158: Titanium. Game over

[NJAC]

@Hiraki - Why is Theomoaner scummy?

[NJAC]

Closed normal - the wiki has a list of roles considered normal. Any of them can appear with any applicable normal modifier. Setups are created by the mod, and approved for normalcy and usually balance by a small group of reviewers. There's no way to predict what might be in the game and trying to outguess the mod is generally a bad idea....

Thanks for the explanation, why exactly is that a bad idea?

[Jun]

FOS evilpacman18, too.

^ scum #1.

He calls me scummy but doesn't provide reasoning until pressed.

And that's not even the only thing that's terribly wrong with that post.

Again, he doesn't bother to elaborate. To me this looks like scum trying to shift blame onto others by calling people out on things without providing reasoning and trying to seem more knowledgeable than others.

McStab could very well be scum. I'm not buddying at all. I didn't read him well at all last game but that was heavily based on circumstance, rather than his posting reading like scum to me.
Don't think that I'm setting up my reads for the rest of the game already. I guarantee you they'll change as the game goes, I just tend to sound pretty sure of things early on. My reads on Maenara and Smashbard are based on differences in their RVS votes as scum and their RVS votes now. It's not much to go on, but I'll add to them and they'll probably be drastically different by the end of the day. Haven't we played together before?
You're probably right about McStab's answer to my question being made irrelevant.

Jun's post is bad because it goes like this
>FOS on someone he thinks is scummy
>makes contrived RVS vote after just saying someone is actually scummy
>lulzy ignorant setup speculation on a closed normal. (I mean he knows what a C9++ is but doesn't know how a closed normal works? That's kinda bull don't you think? I don't even know what a C9++ is.)

Can we please not have McStab vs. Hiraki?

Then finally he elaborates after being asked about it further. He might be scum postfarming to look like he is making many "good" contributions to the daychat when he should have just said this in his initial post. If evilpackman18 thinks I'm scummy for FOS'ing someone and then not voting for them then doesn't that make evilpacman18 scummy by his own definition for not even placing a vote yet?

And I don't know what a normal setup here is like. I've only played one newbie game on this site (the one with NJAC), but I have had experience on another site playing in C9++ or JK++ setups with no role lists provided OR other moderator selected setups in which a general role list detailing scum slots and evil neutral slots were provided. Even after reading the wiki on normal setups I'm still confused. Much like I was confused about the newbie setup until actually playing through one.

@McStab - So the wagon on PMy is to make him somehow claim, right? Is there any other motivation under it? Do you actually think he's scummy?

McStab... IGMEOY.

VOTE: maenara

So, you did it again, you think someone is scummy but you vote another person, why is that?

I am still in RVS, especially seeing as many players haven't even checked in yet. It's hard for me to really get a sense of who the real scum might be. I would rather FoS for now and just file away my note on McStab's behavior while I try out this RVS thing.

Closed normal - the wiki has a list of roles considered normal. Any of them can appear with any applicable normal modifier. Setups are created by the mod, and approved for normalcy and usually balance by a small group of reviewers. There's no way to predict what might be in the game and trying to outguess the mod is generally a bad idea....

Thanks for the explanation, why exactly is that a bad idea?

Yes, why is attempting to guess at the setup a bad idea? I assume scum will be at an advantage, knowing what roles they have been assigned, and thus they have a bit of an advantage, as I learned from playing in C9++ or other formula balanced setups.

Additionally, I came up with another question. In the Newbie game, the IC recommended that lying/fake claiming is highly frowned upon in Newbie setups. What is the general "Large Normal Game stance" on fake claims, or anything else pertaining to Normal Game meta that might be useful for a new player to know?

[evilpacman18]

What happens when you over speculate on the setup
Read the first 5 pages. They're easy and pretty hilarious.

[evilpacman18]

6 actually

[Hiraki]

@Hiraki - Why is Theomoaner scummy?

Because he made something that's not scummy at all into a scumtell

that's fake scumhunting

which is scum scumhunting

donezo

[Smashbard]

your plan is so brilliant that it can't possibly have any flaws

it even sounds too good to be true

like

it's coming from scum

if anyone needs pressure

it's mcstab fyi

You know your suspicions are flawed when the reason you disagree with someone is that their logic makes too much sense. @_@

Anyway, your tells are wrong as well. It varies from person to person and the two spectrums are answering the question and not answering the question rather than how the person answers the question. If the person gives a straightforward answer (ala yes, no, simple one word stuff) then the person has a

very

slight townread. If the person dodges the question by trying to make a sarcastic answer (Well, I can't tell you that.) or completely ignores it, then the person has a slight(though greater than the town read) slant toward scum.

Also, reminding the person about the question invalidates most of this stuff as well. This is a tad bit overkill for something very minor in the end.

Evilpacman already helped explain why simplistic questions like "Are you scum" are useful for making early tells. But uh, way to reiterate his explanation in a way that makes it seem like you're participating?

Now

this

is juicy stuff for page two.

Let's go over the facts, theomoaner.

It's Page 1. You're correct. There's very little evidence to go off on, so how is this possible? Is it possible?

Could he perhaps be *GASP*

LYING?!?!?!

or perhaps *GASP*

TRYING?!?!?!

Either point doesn't matter because you

clearly

identified that both points aren't possible. So...he's scum because he's made an impossible threat?

oh....right...

we thought this one out.

Which is why it's important to hold people to their claims that they make in the early going so as they don't make townie looking posts early on and not follow up. Hence why I expect an explanation from Eleison later on as to why he has suspicions of PMysterious, and I expect PMysterious to elaborate on Page 6 what their reads are or risk being called on it.

Yes, my buddy from last game, you were perfectly clear! Flawless! It'd be impossible that someone would have a different view than us!

Seriously. What the fuck. Stop this pretty obvious buddying to McStab being a god.

I don't actually believe they were buddies in their last game. From what I read, they were at each others throats and McStab refused to believe Pacmans two-shot town cop claim that had nailed scum (which was true). If you read the actual game that was linked, you'd know that.

Why do I smell compromise on Page 1?

Compromise for what? I didn't like the PMysterious wagon at first, McStab explained to me how it could be beneficial for gaining information, so I changed my mind and decided to give it a try. I find it best to try and find town motivations as well as scum, so that you can have at least an idea as to who you can and can't trust. At the moment, I trust in McStab's logic.

Why exactly do you want pressure on me? Because I want to pressure PM?

You overestimate him if you think this plan doesn't work. I can cite specific meta examples if you so desire. Otherwise, stop trying to takeover leadership of the town with your needless banter and rhetoric, and start properly scumhunting.

Are you afraid of pressure being applied to you? If it's ok to use against PMysterious to gain information out of him, why would you be hesitant for it to be applied to yourself for the same reasons?

He (she?) did that in the early game in our last game: newbie 1269.

This helps me develop a more town vibe from Jun. As they were town in the newbie, and are mimicking a similar playstyle this game. But I'll still be keeping an eye out.

Closed normal - the wiki has a list of roles considered normal. Any of them can appear with any applicable normal modifier. Setups are created by the mod, and approved for normalcy and usually balance by a small group of reviewers. There's no way to predict what might be in the game and trying to outguess the mod is generally a bad idea....

Thanks for the explanation, why exactly is that a bad idea?

Considering mykonian has ran games upwards of 50 players where at least half a dozen players were all Mimes, I'd say it's just a bad idea to try and outguess this mod in particular. A large normal can have a huge variety of standard roles, and I'm sure mykonian has thrown us a few curve balls on both sides of the fence to keep things interesting.

I am still in RVS, especially seeing as many players haven't even checked in yet. It's hard for me to really get a sense of who the real scum might be. I would rather FoS for now and just file away my note on McStab's behavior while I try out this RVS thing.

I don't think you understand what Random Voting Stage is. Because you're trying to participate in serious analysis of players behaviors but at the same time retracting saying "Oh, all of this is just RVS from me." So either you don't know how it works or you're purposefully backpedaling on the RVS thinking it's going to save your points from scrutiny.

Yes, why is attempting to guess at the setup a bad idea? I assume scum will be at an advantage, knowing what roles they have been assigned, and thus they have a bit of an advantage, as I learned from playing in C9++ or other formula balanced setups.

From my experience playing table top Mafia games, the rules generally say that there should be 1 Mafia for every 3 townies, give or take third parties or balancing needed for special roles. I don't know if that's the standard here, but if it were you can expect about 4 Mafia this game.

Additionally, I came up with another question. In the Newbie game, the IC recommended that lying/fake claiming is highly frowned upon in Newbie setups. What is the general "Large Normal Game stance" on fake claims, or anything else pertaining to Normal Game meta that might be useful for a new player to know?

I would most definitely lynch anyone who would be caught lying about having a power role. It's anti town at best and scum flailing at worst. In my opinion anyway.

[Smashbard]

My apologies Hikari, actually your post about reads based on how someone answers "Are you Scum" are the complete opposite of Pacmans. Sorry about that, interesting to get two different opinions on how that question generates tells though. I wonder which one is more valid? To the wiki I go!

[Hiraki]

But uh, way to reiterate his explanation in a way that makes it seem like you're participating?

And I explained and even referenced his post at that point.

Uh, thanks for reading it?

If you read the actual game that was linked, you'd know that.

Oh crap! He got me!

Because the sarcastic point wasn't 100% correct, the completely serious part, which has nothing to do with the previous game, must be 100% wrong.

Holy shit, I'm fucked.

@Mod: Votecount Please--I want to know my odds

(

Note to mod: NOT REALLY

)

FFS. What is this shit Smashbard?

What the fuck is it?

McStab explained to me how it could be beneficial for gaining information

I still think it's rather pointless to do a pressure wagon when it's blatantly obvious that the wagon isn't serious. But I'll bite for now.

Why yes, I see how these two correlate perfectly.

how could i have missed that?

PreEdit:

To the wiki I go!

You realize all I've said and all that the wiki will say are just opinions

right?

[evilpacman18]

@Hiraki - Why is Theomoaner scummy?

Because he made something that's not scummy at all into a scumtell

that's fake scumhunting

which is scum scumhunting

donezo

Jun didn't do this?

[Smashbard]

Well I didn't find anything specifically regarding the question "Are you Scum", I did find Sturgeon's Law, which helps somewhat. Since 90% of common knowledge is crap, I'll have to decide for myself what is right and wrong until some actual concrete proof surfaces.

[Smashbard]

But uh, way to reiterate his explanation in a way that makes it seem like you're participating?

And I explained and even referenced his post at that point.

Uh, thanks for reading it?

If you read the actual game that was linked, you'd know that.

Oh crap! He got me!

Because the sarcastic point wasn't 100% correct, the completely serious part, which has nothing to do with the previous game, must be 100% wrong.

Holy shit, I'm fucked.

@Mod: Votecount Please--I want to know my odds

(

Note to mod: NOT REALLY

)

FFS. What is this shit Smashbard?

What the fuck is it?

McStab explained to me how it could be beneficial for gaining information

I still think it's rather pointless to do a pressure wagon when it's blatantly obvious that the wagon isn't serious. But I'll bite for now.

Why yes, I see how these two correlate perfectly.

how could i have missed that?

PreEdit:

To the wiki I go!

You realize all I've said and all that the wiki will say are just opinions

right?

You're not really refuting anybody's points, you're just sarcastically blowing smoke out your ears everytime someone disagrees with you. Luckily for you I don't find that a scumtell or I'd vote you just for being a useless distraction.

[mykonian]

votecount

PMysterious (4): mcstab, eleison, theomoaner, smashbard
Eleison (1): maenara
maenara (1): jun
mcstab (1): shinori
telo (1): dividizzle
theomoaner (1): Hiraki

not voting (7): evilpacman, harpocrates, thermal, NJAC, pirate mollie, pmysterious, telo

[theomoaner]

...

How are you managing to hunt scum in post 3 with only two playes posted?

Now

this

is juicy stuff for page two.

Let's go over the facts, theomoaner.

Could it perhaps be *GASP*

AN RVS VOTE?!?!?!

@EPM - Jun is an actual newb so his (her?) question about the setup is honest imo, In fact I've only played two newbie games and I do have some questions about this setup too.

Why are you making excuses for Jun?

[pirate mollie]

hi guys!

new to the board not new to mafia.

I am not liking maenara's fade.

smashbard stood out on p1 but it was interesting to read hikari's soft support sandwhiched between some hard foses. have you guys played together in a previous game?

@hikari

Because he made something that's not scummy at all into a scumtell

where did he do this?

[Maenara]

Headache. May not have read everything properly yet, so I'd like to stay out of the Smashbard-Hikari-Pacman threeway of unreadable-to-newbies-ness for now. Might give that an extra careful read tonight, but more likely it'll be tomorrow or Wednesday. For the rest:

VOTE: Unvote

Eleison is playing poorly, but bad town-play is bad-townplay, not scum-play. I don't like the reaction, and I'm going to be extremely distrustful of any roleclaim made by <pronoun of choice>, but it's not the most scummy thing I've seen yet.

That, you see, goes to...

VOTE: pirate mollie!

Not-so-subtle attack at the person who RVSed you - by indicating that they're lurking, no less, in spite of it only having been roughly 21 hours since said person's last post, and the majority of said hours (Read: About fourteen) having been spent asleep or engaged in that fearsome thing we know as education - followed by an attempt to link together two other players, making observations and poking for reactions, but not committing to anything at all.

You say you're not new to Mafia? I say you're scum.

[pirate mollie]

Headache. May not have read everything properly yet, so I'd like to stay out of the Smashbard-Hikari-Pacman threeway of unreadable-to-newbies-ness for now. Might give that an extra careful read tonight, but more likely it'll be tomorrow or Wednesday. For the rest:

VOTE: Unvote

Eleison is playing poorly, but bad town-play is bad-townplay, not scum-play. I don't like the reaction, and I'm going to be extremely distrustful of any roleclaim made by <pronoun of choice>, but it's not the most scummy thing I've seen yet.

That, you see, goes to...

VOTE: pirate mollie!

Not-so-subtle attack at the person who RVSed you - by indicating that they're lurking, no less, in spite of it only having been roughly 21 hours since said person's last post, and the majority of said hours (Read: About fourteen) having been spent asleep or engaged in that fearsome thing we know as education - followed by an attempt to link together two other players, making observations and poking for reactions, but not committing to anything at all.

You say you're not new to Mafia? I say you're scum.

lol, worst OMGUS and revenge vote ever!

[pirate mollie]

eta: oh and do you have a question for me or are you just going to ride on the mischaracterisation of my 1 post?

[Eleison]

Lol at mechanics discussion. Loller at numbers discussion. Lollest at the amount of attempted logic up to page 3.

It's like watching children bicker over the rules in gym class freezetag. I see more arguing over meta and interpretation of post "sarcasm" than anything else.

In fact, I should ask for a raise of hands, for anyone who is actually trying right now.

[Maenara]

Let's get this straight.

Pirate Mollie, who in her very first post tries to incriminate the person who voted for her during the RVS, is now accusing me of OMGUSing for pointing out her lack of commitment and her attempt to stoke as many fires as possible in order to leave all doors open. Meanwhile, Eleison, whose only noteable post so far has been blatant breadcrumbing/softclaiming, criticizes the play of everyone else, and then continues to ... ... Do absolutely nothing? Not try to lead by example at all?

Heheheheno. Don't do that, please?

[pirate mollie]

maenara is eleison your scum partner tell the truth don't be shy

[Maenara]

...how did you even reach

that

asinine conclusion?

[pirate mollie]

are you going to answer my question or what

[pirate mollie]

VOTE: maenara

[pirate mollie]

VOTE MAENARA