Open 453 - SCIENCE! ( Game Over! )


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Post Post #250 (ISO) » Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:17 pm

Post by Venmar »

Votecount 1.10


[L-4] Rainbowdash:

[L-4] Cogito Ergo Sum:

[L-2]
Equinox:
Riss, Tierce

[L-4] Robocopter87:

[L-4] Voidedmafia:

[L-3]
Riss:
Voidedmafia

:right:
[L-1]
Tierce:
Rainbowdash, Equinox, Cogito Ergo Sum


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  • Robocopter87


Deadline

  • October 25th, 2012


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  • No one is V/LA
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  • If i make a mistake in my vote count at any point, please let me know so i can correct my error(s).
Last edited by Venmar on Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #251 (ISO) » Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:44 pm

Post by Voidedmafia »

In post 249, Robocopter87 wrote:
Pfft my towniness is obvious.

(Not.)
[/quote]
NO U[/quote]
U MAD?

Like this,
In post 75, Voidedmafia wrote:
In post 73, Robocopter87 wrote:It says you are more willing to policy lynch than to scumhunt for a proper lynch.

I don't remember "policy lynch" being among my list of reasons for wanting you dead...


You said this but it took a LOT of pressuring and questioning to get you to explain why it wasn't a policy lynch. And even now I still don't feel that it was adequately dealt with.

1.) I thought i explained it before that post

2.) Why do you think this?

(Except no because I said that you were null with a hint of scum BEFORE Tierce said anything. I don't know how many times I must explain that you are a null read. But slightly scummy. But that scumminess doesn't mean you are scum with Riss. But you know all about "WELL IT WASN'T SPECIFICALLY STATED SO YOU CAN'T ASSUME THAT EVEN THOUGH ITS OBVIOUS ENOUGH TO MAKE THAT ASSUMPTION." So I shouldn't have to tell you.)

but I think the point of what Tierce was asking was, "if you think VM may be scum, what do you think about a VM/Riss scumteam?" maybe I'm just not reading as much assertiveness in the post as you are.

If you are searching for mason pairs, regardless of your intent, you still are forced to reveal the mason pairs. A.K.A, outting the pairs.

You can't masonhunt and not expect to out masons.

But it's only her educated guess, not expressly true or false. She can narrow it down to a certain pair in her mind but unless said pair explicitly claims to be masons or clear masontells/slips (if such exist) are brought to light it's only conjecture.
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Post Post #252 (ISO) » Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:49 pm

Post by Voidedmafia »

In post 248, Equinox wrote: I can lay my reasoning out if you want, but I'm fairly sure that we all can't be wrong about this.

I'd like to know, a least.

If you read Tierce as town, the only logical pairing here is {Equinox, Riss_}.

Which is what I do believe, yes. You're a weaker read, admittedly, but that's where my reads point to. Robo/Equi is also possible, though.

If that pairing makes sense to you, you will get more information out of an Equinox vote at this point, as it will make apparent the scum team in play once I flip. Before you do that, though, please take a look again at why you're reading Tierce as town; if, after that, you still agree with your read, vote me and let Robocopter87 choose the hammer.

The only things that raise any bells are when she begins talking about masons (largely due to the discussion itself), and when she begins to think CES is scum (only because I think he's town, so that point's null, anyways). PoE also dictates that read.

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Post Post #253 (ISO) » Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:41 pm

Post by Equinox »

In post 252, Voidedmafia wrote:I'd like to know, a least.

Read Robocopter87's posts but assume that he is town. That's the best way I can put it.

Though now that I've had to actually sit down and articulate my reasoning, I'm much more certain on Robocopter87 being town now. Even if you don't trust my alignment, trust my ability to read him; it's strong enough that I'd be willing to stake the game on it.

In post 252, Voidedmafia wrote:Robo/Equi is also possible, though.

{Equinox, Robocopter87} is not possible because Robocopter87 is not scum. That's final. The scum team is either {Equinox, Riss_} or {Riss_, Tierce}, which is why I told you to move from Riss_ if you were that confident on Tierce being town.

Anyway, the line's drawn.

Your move, Robocopter87.
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Post Post #254 (ISO) » Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:43 pm

Post by Equinox »

EBWOP: My read of Robocopter87 is strong enough that I'd be willing to stake the game on it, not my ability to read him. Hah. Though if I'm right about him, then my ego is going to think that my ability to read him is that strong, too.
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Post Post #255 (ISO) » Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:21 pm

Post by Equinox »

Ah, what the hell. If I left the decision to Robocopter87 with just that, it'd be a boring hammer, and boring is bad. Let's get some campaigning in here.

Robocopter87, here's why you should vote for Tierce instead of Equinox:

Cogito Ergo Sum, Rainbowdash, and Voidedmafia are not scum.

In post 249, Robocopter87 wrote:However, I do still see where this could be from a town mindset, but I think of it more as scummy. And due to my lack of scumreads but abundance of townreads, it takes that little bit to throw you on the scum side of things.

If you could see the town mindset behind Voidedmafia's actions, then the chances are higher that Voidedmafia is actually town and doing these things out of a town mindset than him being scum and you being right on all of your other town reads. His pressuring you is not scummy nor is his reluctance to explain to you that it wasn't just a policy lynch; you really were being scummy at the time.

Basically, the game can be solved by lynching within these three: Equinox, Riss_, Tierce.

I am offering myself up for lynch. Cogito Ergo Sum can tell you that I'm manipulative as scum, etc., but here's the deal: My scum buddy can be literally no one else. As scum, I would be proposing a suicide plan in a player list that will insist on following through with it or will at least be very suspicious of weaseling.

Furthermore, look at Tierce's behavior towards Cogito Ergo Sum and Equinox.

Tierce posts a case against Cogito Ergo Sum in post 136; she includes evidence and analysis of Cogito Ergo Sum's behavior. I respond to that entire thing with only a single line post 163, and it's not even a direct response to any point of Tierce's case. The next time she references Cogito Ergo Sum is a complaint about the wagon going nowhere in post 194; when I point out she didn't pressure me for my scummy rebuttal, she gives a weak response in post 199: I raised flags, but I'm not worth pursuing.

Tierce-town is proactive and aggressive, and she would have given me a more substantial response. If not pressure, at least an attempt at more persuasion, since we'd both lost to Cogito Ergo Sum-scum earlier in the year.
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Post Post #256 (ISO) » Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:17 pm

Post by Tierce »

Robo: I wasn't expecting anyone to discuss with me what mason pairs they see as possible, I was explaining why I was confused because I found myself with no viable pairs. I have no intention of discussing any finds I may have.


You're not scum. I've seen scum stick to some ridiculous guns, but not when they are being called out on doing nothing and mudslinging at the same time. No one who has strong concerns with their self-preservation will sit on something that isn't even the pretense of hard work.

Riss_ makes no sense with anyone, she's too lost and the only person who could fit in with her was the person she was happily RVSing for most of the game.

CES isn't scum. I freely admit I have no idea what he's doing most of the time, but I
think
he's going through the game in terms of viable scum pairs.

Voidedmafia works well with both Equinox and Rainbowdash. Moreso with Equinox than with Rainbowdash, but it might be too obvious. I've seen scum DeasVail be completely oblivious to a consensual obvtown read and stick to wagoning it, and there are points here that I feel are similar (see: pretense of hard work by going all-out against someone who won't be lynched). However, in that game scum didn't have daytalk, so I find it hard to believe that Voidedmafia would keep up the pursuit on Robo when it was clear his partner had no interest on the lynch (i.e. one of {Equinox, Rainbowdash}). With the scumteam being less isolated than they were in Mafia with the Kitties, I'd expect him to be more acommodating.

I've seen Rainbowdash make that kind of hardline defense as scum-on-town before. It's pretty obvious that I was considering a Rainbowdash/Robocopter mason pair until recently, which caused me to treat it as a mason defense, but now I think the behavior is pretty similar to Rainbowdash-on-Xalxe on PYP Redux, for example (my internet speed is pathetic so I can't check the earlier Days to see what he actually did; I'd be grateful if someone could lend me a hand and go through those files for a meta-read on recentish scum-Rainbow).
If Rainbow is scum and my read on you is there for the right reasons, he had a very easy read to give on you, and it didn't cost him anything in terms of likely lynches. Basically, what I'm saying is that defending you didn't cut any potential mislynch for an hypothetical scum Rainbowdash.

That leaves Equinox. If the scumteam is two of {Equinox, Rainbowdash, Voidedmafia}, and I can't see a working Rainbowdash/Voidedmafia pairing, it means that Equinox must be scum with one of them.


In post 255, Equinox wrote:Tierce posts a case against Cogito Ergo Sum in post 136; she includes evidence and analysis of Cogito Ergo Sum's behavior. I respond to that entire thing with only a single line post 163, and it's not even a direct response to any point of Tierce's case. The next time she references Cogito Ergo Sum is a complaint about the wagon going nowhere in post 194; when I point out she didn't pressure me for my scummy rebuttal, she gives a weak response in post 199: I raised flags, but I'm not worth pursuing.

Tierce-town is proactive and aggressive, and she would have given me a more substantial response. If not pressure, at least an attempt at more persuasion, since we'd both lost to Cogito Ergo Sum-scum earlier in the year.
Tierce was more concerned about not seeing Riss_ lynched than about lynching Cogito Ergo Sum. If Riss_ is a townread of mine, there is a clear priority here, and it is not "lynch CES":
In post 191, Robocopter87 wrote:Intent to hammer.
In post 201, Venmar wrote:[L-3] Cogito Ergo Sum: Tierce
[L-3] Equinox: Riss
[L-1] Riss: Voidedmafia, Equinox, Cogito Ergo Sum

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Post Post #257 (ISO) » Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:26 pm

Post by Robocopter87 »

You see RBD? Me not voting worked out quite well for me.

Now I have the power to decide a Day One lynch and on top of that I'm being generally called town (Thanks to you)

I could just coast on this through the whole game. But I'll be nice and help out a little.

Now, on the subject of the Equi & Tierce debate. I'm going to just see what everyone else has to say about it. Honestly what Tierce and Equi say are irrelevant due to the fact that they both do not wish to die. They are obviously going to fight tooth and nail to get the other killed. One of them will have to die, and honestly I don't really see any downfall to either.

Tempted to just flip a coin and laugh but I'll see what others have to say first.

Connections and whatnot.
Although the border between madness and genius is very narrow.


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Post Post #258 (ISO) » Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:39 pm

Post by Equinox »

No. If you're going to be nice and help out a little by sitting back and watching, please just flip a coin and get it over with. I flip town, you automatically lynch Tierce and Riss_ to win the game. There are only two scum in a group of three players remaining after process of elimination. If you have doubts because you disagree with my reads, ask, but if you haven't seen the connections by now, then I'm not sure how waiting is going to help you. Reread the game or something.
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Post Post #259 (ISO) » Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:43 pm

Post by Tierce »

There is a big problem with your logic, Equinox. If you flip town and I'm lynched, we lose. We can only mislynch once.
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Post Post #260 (ISO) » Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:51 pm

Post by Equinox »

In post 259, Tierce wrote:There is a big problem with your logic, Equinox. If you flip town and I'm lynched, we lose. We can only mislynch once.

Work that out tomorrow? Besides, I'm having a lot of trouble seeing how you came to the conclusions that you did after having combed over the game a second time, so I can only conclude that you're scum.
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Post Post #261 (ISO) » Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:02 pm

Post by Robocopter87 »

Yes, Equi, continue to persuade me even though I just said both of your opinions are irrelevant to me.

I wanna know what CES and RBD think.
Although the border between madness and genius is very narrow.


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Post Post #262 (ISO) » Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:02 pm

Post by Robocopter87 »

But both of their votes ARE on Tierce...
Although the border between madness and genius is very narrow.


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Post Post #263 (ISO) » Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:09 pm

Post by Equinox »

In post 261, Robocopter87 wrote:Yes, Equi, continue to persuade me even though I just said both of your opinions are irrelevant to me.

I've already presented a case. What more do you want? I'm not doing a LyLo showdown on Day 1.
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Post Post #264 (ISO) » Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:14 pm

Post by Tierce »

In post 260, Equinox wrote:
In post 259, Tierce wrote:There is a big problem with your logic, Equinox. If you flip town and I'm lynched, we lose. We can only mislynch once.
Work that out tomorrow? Besides, I'm having a lot of trouble seeing how you came to the conclusions that you did after having combed over the game a second time, so I can only conclude that you're scum.
This is the kind of thing you accused Katsuki of doing with you and Faraday in Tiger MetaTiger, I believe (or perhaps it was just me in the dead QT? Again, can't check files, but it was a traitor-cop looking for yet more stuff to lob on a player they were locked on a 1v1 against when a simple flip would dictate the other's lynch).

If, in your mind, there is no other possibility than for me and Riss to be a scumteam, why are you looking for yet more things to pin on me? By your own logic, it seems there is only one viable scumteam, so unless you are backtracking in this idea, I don't know how it makes sense for Equinox-town to
not
be calling me scum with plenty of confirmation bias; you don't need extra ammunition.
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Post Post #265 (ISO) » Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:20 pm

Post by Equinox »

In post 264, Tierce wrote:This is the kind of thing you accused Katsuki of doing with you and Faraday in Tiger MetaTiger, I believe (or perhaps it was just me in the dead QT? Again, can't check files, but it was a traitor-cop looking for yet more stuff to lob on a player they were locked on a 1v1 against when a simple flip would dictate the other's lynch).

If, in your mind, there is no other possibility than for me and Riss to be a scumteam, why are you looking for yet more things to pin on me? By your own logic, it seems there is only one viable scumteam, so unless you are backtracking in this idea, I don't know how it makes sense for Equinox-town to
not
be calling me scum with plenty of confirmation bias; you don't need extra ammunition.

The difference here is I am not a cop with a result or claiming to be one. While the majority of my read on you is based on process of elimination, that is not helpful to someone like Robocopter87 who, very unfortunately, is not on the same page, and I can't actively put him on the same page. To get around that, I build a case on you, and it's a case I've already presented previously, albeit as a one-liner.
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Post Post #266 (ISO) » Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:26 pm

Post by Venmar »

Riss_ has been prodded for not posting for over 48 hours.
I swear I'm trying my best

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Post Post #267 (ISO) » Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:31 pm

Post by Tierce »

And yet you (and others) seem convinced that the game would be resolved on you, me and Riss being lynched. Why do you need to be helpful to Robocopter now, when you would get such a guarantee via flips tomorrow? He seems the wrong person for you to be convincing.

...I'm arguing with my scumreads again. Bottom line is: I'm not scum, the plan you are proposing will likely end in a town loss because Riss is probably town, and your interactions with Rainbowdash and Voidedmafia both don't reassure me in the least that there isn't a scumteam in there.
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Post Post #268 (ISO) » Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:35 pm

Post by Equinox »

In post 264, Tierce wrote:
In post 260, Equinox wrote:
In post 259, Tierce wrote:There is a big problem with your logic, Equinox. If you flip town and I'm lynched, we lose. We can only mislynch once.
Work that out tomorrow? Besides, I'm having a lot of trouble seeing how you came to the conclusions that you did after having combed over the game a second time, so I can only conclude that you're scum.
This is the kind of thing you accused Katsuki of doing with you and Faraday in Tiger MetaTiger, I believe (or perhaps it was just me in the dead QT? Again, can't check files, but it was a traitor-cop looking for yet more stuff to lob on a player they were locked on a 1v1 against when a simple flip would dictate the other's lynch).

If, in your mind, there is no other possibility than for me and Riss to be a scumteam, why are you looking for yet more things to pin on me? By your own logic, it seems there is only one viable scumteam, so unless you are backtracking in this idea, I don't know how it makes sense for Equinox-town to
not
be calling me scum with plenty of confirmation bias; you don't need extra ammunition.

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Post Post #269 (ISO) » Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:35 pm

Post by Equinox »

BLOODY QUOTE TAGS
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Post Post #270 (ISO) » Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:58 pm

Post by Rainbowdash »

Robocopter87 wrote:I wanna know what CES and RBD think.


Invisible line. I like my vote.

Hard to say more, but again, if you think im town Tierce is the lynch because I can almost guarentee you that Equinox-Riss arent scum together to the point that I would probably drop my read on you if Tierce is town. It just would have to be the most convoluted and confusing, pointless bus of all time if they were scum together.
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Post Post #271 (ISO) » Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:06 pm

Post by Venmar »

Riss_ has requested to be replaced. I will replace her slot shortly.
I swear I'm trying my best

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Post Post #272 (ISO) » Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:18 pm

Post by Voidedmafia »

In post 257, Robocopter87 wrote:You see RBD? Me not voting worked out quite well for me.

Now I have the power to decide a Day One lynch and on top of that I'm being generally called town (Thanks to you)

I could just coast on this through the whole game. But I'll be nice and help out a little.

Cheeky little scumfuck...

If you have time to lord all this power over us, you have time to make a decision. Do so already.
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Post Post #273 (ISO) » Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:22 pm

Post by Robocopter87 »

VOTE: Tierce
Although the border between madness and genius is very narrow.


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Post Post #274 (ISO) » Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:25 pm

Post by Tierce »

Still town. Hadn't been mislynched for 10 months.

Consider things carefully tomorrow. I think it's Equinox/Rainbowdash, but I wouldn't put it past Equinox/Voidedmafia.
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