Micro 54: Slightly More Vengeful GAME OVER

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Shos, can I just say that lynching maestro when you wanted the lynchee not to use the vengekill was plain stupid.

[shos]

of course, but tell me why.?

I've talked a lot about why being in 5p is better than 6p; the ways to get there are A) NLing, which means the scum gets a free kill or B) lynching (anyone) and not using the vengekill, meaning that town can direct the kill, with chances to hit scum.
don't tell me I'm stupid, tell me WHY I'm stupid.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Maestro was obviously eager to use the vengekill, and not taking the game seriously. There was pretty much no way he was going to give up the venge.

[Maruchan]

Shos, can I just say that lynching maestro when you wanted the lynchee not to use the vengekill was plain stupid.

[Maruchan]

Maestro was obviously eager to use the vengekill, and not taking the game seriously. There was pretty much no way he was going to give up the venge.

Like I said Shos: THE HUMAN FACTOR. you explained with all your math OH HEY LETS NOT USE A VENGEKILL< but nobody gives a fuck about math they give a fuck about having fun, IE: vengekill

[guille2015]

Precisely why I was hesitant with voting for maestro. But I did because it would not had mattered. Day two would have seen them dead too.

I will be much more aggressive to lurkers from now on.

[ImJadenYuki]

Whoa.
Dis game.

[Maestro]

Precisely why I was hesitant with voting for maestro. But I did because it would not had mattered. Day two would have seen them dead too.

I will be much more aggressive to lurkers from now on.

Whoa.
Dis game.

[T-Bone]

Gameplay aside, set-up, do you like? Yes or no? Would anyone play this set-up again if I jump right back into the Micro queue?

[shos]

I'd play it again just to have a game where people play to their WC (*coughmaestrocough*), but generally, I think that the setup is much much proscum. as I said, lack of godfather makes it easier for scum, and the extra townie alive doesn't help at all. I thank you a lot for modding this, but uh, if I were to mod such a game, I will A) use 1 goon and 1 godfather; and B) consider giving town some way to become stronger but only slightly; for example: give town a rolecop that recieves "Goon" or "Not goon". this way it makes town stronger in a way that A) they get a sorta minicop obviously and B) if the rolecop cops the goon soon enough, they can keep him alive, and lynch someone else, knowing that in case the lynch fails - the lynchee can shoot the goon and not lose the game.

@maestro: look, I understand you, I do. but it's really a problem imo. for example: I played Risk with friends a while ago; and there was one player whose last mission was X. and we could stop him from winning the next turn, but someone said "why should I sacrifice part of my force to stop him if I become weak after it?" and I was like, because it is either LOSE 100% or LOST(not 100%), and so, the choice is obvious if you play to your WC. but he said that doing that wouldn't be fun, since he'll have to start growing his empire all over again and it'll take time, and so he did not do that something that could stop X, and the game was instantly over.

...so my point is; I'm definitely not going to blacklist you, but I'll just say that I am(as I was with the Risk game) very, very disappointed I usually suck in being town, and this time I felt like I was an integral part of town and I felt that I helped, and well... hrmph.

any comments about either things(the maestro thing - WC v fun and the setup thing) are gladly accepted!

[T-Bone]

This is a Vengeful like set-up so it'll be nightless. The extra townie exists so that the Scum can Vengekill too without breaking the game. Obviously optimal play is if a townie is lynched Day 1 he should choose not to use his kill. Doesn't me that player will.

[Maestro]

[Maestro]

(Sorry I meant that to be a little more constructive but it clicked Submit by accident instead of preview... )

@Everyone, but mainly shos: I understand "optimal play" and "playing to your wincon" and all that, but as far as this particular game goes, whether you think you were an integral part of Town or not, it remains that you were wrong in trying to lynch me. Whether or not we disagree on how to play this game, it was obvious that I was going to Vengekill you were I to die, thusly you attempting to lynch me was playing against your own wincon as Town - from my PoV. And from my PoV, Vengekilling you upon my death was completely playing for my wincon, since I was sure you were Scum. The kind of semantical argument we'd get into when it comes to wincon from different players' viewpoints is stupid, so let's just not.

I don't like things that are considered "Townslips" since (infallible as others may consider them) they can and often are easily faked. I had actually not even thought about the quirks of this particular setup and had assumed there was a Godfather as well but that doesn't mean that me running on that assumption the whole time would've been a Towntell. It was a mistake. My main thought process behind this is just that Scum automatically knowing that there is not a Godfather doesn't conversely imply that people who assume there is one are automatically Town. They're just not as informed about the setup, which comes not from being Town, but either by not carefully reading about the setup or from faking their own knowledge of the setup.

Sorry for seemingly dropping out the last half of the game. I should've declared V/LA because I'm going into Tech Week (a.k.a. "Hell Week") for my first college theatre production. These were just some of my thoughts...if there's anything else you'd like to say I'm keeping this topic bookmarked for discussion. That said, good game, hope to play with you all again.

More Vengefuls for me - the thought process is so different from other games and I'm the first to admit I'm not entirely used to it yet.

[Maestro]

Also, last but not least, glad there're no hard feelings shos.

I've just been in this rut where "shos = Scum" in all my recent games...yeesh it's good to be out of that place.

[guille2015]

This is a Vengeful like set-up so it'll be nightless. The extra townie exists so that the Scum can Vengekill too without breaking the game. Obviously optimal play is if a townie is lynched Day 1 he should choose not to use his kill. Doesn't me that player will.

I had fun this game.

I slightly disagree with shos. This is in fact a scum sided game day one because there are alot of targets for town to miss with if lynched. But day2 and onward is town sided. Sho and I figured out that the best play was to not vigkill day 1. Still it makes for some interesting play. I will not let lurkers slip by though. I should have noticed when Abaddon kept quiet.

[shos]

What do you disagree with me about?
D2 and onwards is not townsided, since it's like a regular vengeful, but without a godfather, and scum can vengekill.


[REDACTED]

you might have a point here...since in any lynch, town can kill TWO people...hrmmn...

[quadz08]