Marketplace Mafia II - Game Over

[Mehdi2277]

Main problem is if for some reason tammy believed it not to say so in thread, she'd have still likely told the rest of the neighborhood qt and then the qt would convince her to mostly ignore it.

[kanyeknowsbest]

If I'd pulled off the two messages in one, I was hoping to get Tammy to quietly signal N, get "confirmation", then to keep quiet until night and do something stupid, preferably involving shooting PV at the same time as copping him. It was a long shot, I know. The idea of the message that never sent was to pull the bois into pushing a molla lynch and looking for a multiball scumteam of some sort. Probably wouldn't have worked.

can tell you it definitely wouldnt have worked, but it would have been fun : ]

[MattP]

^

[guille2015]

This was a fun game. I pretty much sucked though. The amount of posts when I was not able to get to them was overwhelming. I know it can be done, but when you have to factor in that you need to be fake scum-hunting, then the difficulty will be twofold. I guess I'll have to Hydra the next full game to minimize this.

I was in full agreement with the plan to siphon money. It would have been the death to town if at least one of mafia was on the receiving end. All the actions were called upon, mafia always had more money, and it was just a matter of killing those with the most money or stronger power. MoI was the only player of the bunch that I think could have managed, but it's a pitty that he missed that message.

I managed to detect Seanald's signal that Pitty was his team mates. By that time I was like, "we are fucked". I was completely taken by surprise that GreyIce was mafia.

As for MoI's message. I can understands DaBois's position, but everyone one else didn't see that? BMolla made a really bad kill. Regardless, that's the way this game goes.

As for my last few posts. I really was uninspired by that time. I figured that I was lost already. I had sacrificed for phil so I didn't transfer money at the end, neither to GG or to Tammy. Even If I could convince everybody that I was town, I would have had a tough time without being able to capitalize on the actions.

We planned to be a group that framed players. We transferred small amounts of money to key players in an attempt to frame the transferring party. But for some odd reason nobody noticed that they received more money than they should have received. I didn't want Medhi to calculate the ending transfers so that it would have appeared that the transfering party made a mistake and transferred more money than they should have had. Voided had to transfer $186 but PV received $187. They completely walked over this without even an incline of a doubt. PV said: "Voided send $187, that's about right". Nobody noticed this, and I even hinted at it. Voided couldn't have sent more money unless he was lying about his money and transfered a little bit too much=Scum.

As for the neighborizer, when MoI died, we new we had to 1. avoid the advertising of Cop and 2 get the Neighbor. We had more money than Tammy, but I failed when I did the math and bet less. From the very beginning we let the Right get the Night Kill. So we could concentrate on support. Regardless It wouldn't have worked much since mafia was completely on the suspect side of the game since the beginning.

I had fun though. And the concept is good. I will likely play part III if it happens.

I expected more third parties though. I think the game would have been different if the mafia could communicate and there where a listening serial killer to balance out the messaging, like it was in the last game.

[Voidedmafia]

Just make sure GreyICE never gets it.

[PeregrineV]

hey pv, what messed up in your transfer n4?

Nothing I think. I just invested some and sent some to DV and Molla.

Transfer: Slumber $50
Transfer: DeasVail $25
Transfer: BBmolla $25
Invest: $100
Advertise: Watcher $46

[StefanB]

Just a few thinks:

Peregrine: I didn't block you because I thought you were scum, but Tammy was really afraid of the nightkill in scumhands.
So I thought about it.
Blocking Phil the one who looked like scum, he could only kill Tammy and I dead Tammy and a dead scum was victory.
So planning for what happens if we were wrong.
Who would I kill if I were scum and not Phil?
The cop, either to frame Peregrine or because Peregrine a save.
A rolblock here gave a result in case Phil would have been town.
I still think the logic was okay.

About MoI: I disagree that the shot was bad.
The push was in the beginning not sure, hell I called his reaction interesting.
I wasn't sure how to interpret his reaction.
His post afterwards were interesting.
Call it naive but Town-MoI would have played differently.
Checked his role PM again...
And the moment he implied that he was town but didn't get the quicktopicoffer well he was obvious scum.
(Sorry but that doesn't make sense from Magua in this setup and from what I belive of him as mod)
Well the reason that I believed scum didn't know about it, was MoI selling it well.
(Not sure that it helped, strengenth the Sala townread mostly)

About the messplan.
You send 1 $ more. I don't think many players would have checked, that was to little to be noticed unless you were really carefull.
And Callforjudgement wasn't that scummy.
So uh it was to little to have an effect.

[callforjudgement]

Yeah, if someone asked "why did you send more money than you claimed?", my reaction would be to check my QT, then say "I didn't, someone else must have transferred a bit". I expect I'd have been believed.

[Seanald]

lol not bad with the framing plan, but only getting people off by 1 dollar doesnt do shit, shoulda been like 5 or more dollars

[greygnarl]

Someone else might've said this already but absolutely zero scum got put in the town pile D1. When we drew up the transfer sheet, every one of the scum was giving moneys. Amazingly played by town. Awesome game Magua, and sorry for my slip in MD.

[guille2015]

Yeah, had at least one mafia stayed on the town side, then this game would have had a different result.

Now, personally I think this game needed a 3rd party SK or something. additionally, I am thinking that the bidding should have been, you spend all the money you bid on it. So if you bid $100, then you pay $100 even if the next bidder is $1. This should make all bids affordable, and likely reduce any possible game breaking attempts. Thoughts?

[Magua]

Yeah, had at least one mafia stayed on the town side, then this game would have had a different result.

Now, personally I think this game needed a 3rd party SK or something. additionally, I am thinking that the bidding should have been, you spend all the money you bid on it. So if you bid $100, then you pay $100 even if the next bidder is $1. This should make all bids affordable, and likely reduce any possible game breaking attempts. Thoughts?

This punishes Mafia way more than town, since Mafia will be bidding on more abilities than town.

---

For balance, I'm much more of a fan of Mafia "spoiler" abilities: a 1-shot block all transfers for a Night, or an ability to block/redirect transfers from a specific player to another specific player (I used this heavily in Paranoia Mafia to balance the possibility of a town mass claim).

Also, as mentioned in the Dead QT, I'm likely just going to remove the "night-kill as auction" bit and simply give the Mafia a normal Night-kill. Mafia losing the Night-kill makes the game wonky.

[guille2015]

I'd like to play your next iteration. I had fun. I am likely going to Hydra for any Large games I play.

[Seanald]

nah dude, having the NK bid is what makes this game so crazy cool. maybe like every other day put the NK on auction, or just get better scum teams. No offense but we lost because the members of the scum team were not great players, and the members of the town where.

We lost fair and square by good town play.

[Magua]

One of the points I had been hoping for was having both the Mafia teams trying to outbid Town for the NK without outbidding eachother.

But what actually happened were things like N2 (or maybe N3?) where neither Mafia team ended up bidding on the NK and greygnarl got it for $1. I mean, it's interesting from the theoretical standpoint, but from a gameplay perspective, it's just swingy.

[Voidedmafia]

Remind me, though, what made you switch from daybidding to night bidding?

Also, that sounds more like scum psyched and WIFOM'd each other out. Probably wrong since I haven't read either team's QT, but still.

[Magua]

Bidding during the day allows for town coordination of bids in public -- I wanted to avoid "guiz I got this auction, no one else bid on it." That still happened this game, because oracle was never contested by the scum, but the possibility was there.

Also wanted to do away with transfer during the day (so the lynchee can't transfer) and it sort of shook out from there.

[Mehdi2277]

I don't really think the lack of orc blocks it. While you can't get specific roles to specific people the 1st auction go to player A, 2nd auction goes to player B, etc still works well if you have town reads to cover all the auctions.

[callforjudgement]

Yeah, town can coordinate in this setup regardless of whether they have Oracle or not. We didn't, for a couple of nights.

The solution may be to change the bidding system to something less fair (e.g. nobody can see current bids, and if you win you have to pay your entire bid regardless of who else bids). That would mean that coordination could be defeated via the scum bidding slightly higher.