Micro 70 ~ Mafia in Triplicate (Game Over!)

[Shamrock]

Wha... the only person voting Empire is Shmugen...

[Xalxe]

Um...you?

[Shamrock]

UNVOTE: Empire
VOTE: Shmugen

and me and Shmugen were the only ones voting him before I switched my vote...

whatever it doesn't matter I guess

[Vi]

Vote Count III:

Puzzling calm
Xalxe (L-3) ~ saulres, Konowa
Nobody Special (L-3) ~ Tierce, Empire
Shmugen (L-3) ~ F-16_Fighting_Falcon, Shamrock
Empire (L-4) ~

{Shamrock,}

Shmugen
Tierce (L-4) ~ Nobody Special
F-16_Fighting_Falcon (L-4) ~ Xalxe

--With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
--Deadline is November 12, 2012 - in

(expired on 2012-11-12 20:00:00)

.

[Empire]

Just got caught up and here's some stuff:

@Shmugen:

I can understand your stance re: NS calling out Tierce/not me but I don't see any reason to focus on one and not the other. As town, I'd expect him to be a little more peripheral/inquisitive and therefore, his vote/FoS on Tierce comes across like he's trying to discredit the primary pusher of the wagon. Shamrock makes a good point about your #59 - if you have a scumread on someone, why wouldn't you want to follow up on it to see whether it's reinforced or diminished? Why does it matter if it's only page 3 of the game?

@Xalxe:

The first part of my #37 was meant to be a response to Shmugen and an expansion of why I'm voting NS so that's why you don't see anything in #43 and I'm replying to the more recent stuff just now. Also, I've said that Tierce mirrored my reasoning re: NS...the logic presented in Tierce's earlier post was sound, especially during the awkward transition-from-RVS phase. I liked her #33 too, just because I didn't explicitly state it doesn't mean I disagree or am not thinking about it.

Now some misc. comments about the other players - rereading saulres's initial posts, I think the reason he rubbed me the wrong way was that his #20 felt like he was trying to lead into an FoS on both NS and Konowa with his questioning but I liked his #53 stance against lurkerdom + call out of Xalxe and Shamrock. It doesn't come across as opportunistic at all but more like he's genuinely worried about inactivity crippling the thread and allowing for an easy scum win, especially given that I have the same worry with games (see this game where I was only one of maybe a couple of people who had more posts than the mod by the end of D1). Agreeing that Konowa's claim and the uncertainty with which he is expressing it comes off as genuine.

Also, Tierce, if your comment about alts is partially directed at me, my "real" main's public and I have no problem with it being outed (I'm actually moving to this account as my main though) if people want me to.

I want to look a little more into Shmugen's meta since I've followed a few games he's been in and he always comes across as scum to me (plus, his comment in #44 seems genuine - "Yes, yes, "Shmugen is scummy", get it out of your system like everyone else in any game I've ever been in"). Likewise with Xalxe.

Finally, I want to note that NS has not come back to this thread since posting a bit elsewhere (more votes on him please).

[Tierce]

Also, Tierce, if your comment about alts is partially directed at me, my "real" main's public and I have no problem with it being outed (I'm actually moving to this account as my main though) if people want me to.

It' not just about you, and yes, I know it's public, but it's not my business to out it myself, especially when I'm at a point where I don't see any game relevance in it.

[Empire]

Oh, I also just noticed it's your birthday.

(Happy Birthday!)

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I agree with Empire that Shmugen always comes across as scum. The games he linked are evidence of that. Let's re-evaluate from a different perspective.

- Empire, why did immediately think I was town after I made a post FOSsing Shmugen?

- What about Tierce's case on NS was so great that you call it "ownage?" It was decent, it was good for a start, but nothing remarkable.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Tierce, how is Konowa town?

[Empire]

F-16, the townread on you is for a couple of reasons. Your elaboration on the question I asked you about Tierce + your reasoning for voting Shmugen in #39 is very logically sound and shows a pretty deep-ish thought process, especially for such an early phase of the game. What really sealed it for me though was your #42 which came across as super genuine.

About my use of the word "ownage", that's basically just how I talk sometimes. When I'm town I'm really eager to scumhunt since it's much more my forte than playing scum (see: this game as Black Mask where I basically cut corners and coasted hardcore as scum) and I sometimes get carried away and overly excited.

[Tierce]

Thanks, Empire. ^_^

Konowa is Town for the way he approached the "I have some information" matter. 1) There is likely to be such a mechanic, not just because of the rules post, but because this is a Vi game and things tend to be

weird

. (Wait, I just noticed we have fixed deadlines. This is Vi-New. What is this uncharte

r

d territory? ) 2) If scum-Konowa was informed of such a mechanic, he would have mused it over with his scumbuddies and decided whether or not to share it with the Town, he wouldn't offer it up as something he

doesn't know

whether to discuss. Scum mentality usually isn't "oh, I'll let the Town decide what to do with this information" (whether or not he actually had it).

To put it in examples:
1) "There is something that might happen at the end of D1, I have no details" - could be from either alignment.
2)

[Clams up about real info]

- probably scum.
3) "Uh, guys, I have role information about D1, I don't know if I should reveal it, opinions?" - Town.

Scum is plenty willing to foist out responsibility for events and their 'decisions' on others, but not in a situation like this. It serves no scum purpose to act the way he has, and there is a lot of logic behind it being a natural reaction to having setup information as Town. Ergo, he's probably Town.

Or maybe I just like that lovely corona in his avatar. Who knows.

(Konowa is a player whose motivations are really interesting to puzzle out. ^_^)


...Mazikeen makes my posts sound all serious and less adventurous than Del. Hmm. Have to mull on this avatar change and yes I am rambling about it here.

[Tierce]

Hmm, turns out it was more 1) than I thought.

Okay then, I have role information that -something- is going to happen at the end of Day 1. I was going to post this in my first post, but I've never had anything like this so I didn't know what to do with the information. My only guess is that it pertains to Rarefaction perhaps?

...heh, I still think it was Town, he would either have revealed it earlier or not at all, mulling about it is Town attitude.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Empire

@ Empire, just looked through your ISO in that game. Tbh, you are acting pretty much the same as you are here. Making wall-posts about your thoughts, pushing for "more votes." It is null to me considering I haven't looked through a game you played as town. Can you provide a link? You say you are eager to scumhunt here but so far, you haven't scumhunted anyone by yourself. You have:

1) A random vote (

null read

)
2) Sheeps Tierce (

null read again from this post, praise is fine, I have done it before as town

)
3) Autocorrect (

null

)
4) Justifies voting NS, Saulres's post 20 rubbed you the wrong way (

null, considering you were asked to justify it

,

and scummy, considering you say nothing about why Saulres's post rubbed you the wrong way

).
5) Autocorrect (

null

)
6) F-16 is town, more votes on NS (

again null, considering you had an explanation for why you thought I was town

)
7) Justifies use of the word ownage (

null, defending that stance was necessary considering players were asking about it

)
8) Say you can understand Shmugen's stance about NS, more FOS on NS. (

Townish, pushing on NS

.

Scummy, the following two quotes

)

#20 felt like [Saulres] was trying to lead into an FoS on both NS and Konowa with his questioning.

How so? Can you elaborate?

I liked his #53 stance against lurkerdom + call out of Xalxe and Shamrock.

What is there to like about it? He called out two inactives while he himself stayed inactive. Sure he had an excuse but I don't see how that makes his post likeable.
9) Happy Birthday Tierce (

null

)
10) Explains townread on F-16, explains usage of the word "ownage," excited as town, links to scumgame. (

null

)

Yeah, I can't get a proper read on Empire yet. Want to see scumgame.

Tierce

@ Tierce, regarding Konowa, the reason you think is town seems really weak. Scum could potentially have asked town what to do with their info to make it seem like they want to hear town's opinion's about it. Also, unless I missed something, why don't say anything to Konowa about how he should use his info?

This doesn't make sense either:

Vi is being etc. Konowa is probably Town,

carry on

.

When have you ever told town to "carry on" as opposed to actively demanding that Player X needs rope. I've never seen you not try to take centerstage in any game that I've played with you or read where you were town. Although, admittedly, you never did this as scum either, so I am not sure what to make of it.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Oh, and Happy Birthday Tierce.

[Empire]

I linked one of my town games in #79. Here's another game on my main Satire (Mini 1373). Unfortunately, those three games are all the completed ones I have on here.

Re: the read on saulres, it was mostly just gut and that comment was meant as a way to articulate what I was feeling and I think it was the way he was phrasing his questions in a leading way that gave me off vibes. About his #53, it's not just his actual stance but the way he actually expresses it ("I've seen scum win several Micro games by lurking so I'm going to be particularly hard on lurkers") - it's the meta-based reference to other Micros that makes his stance seem real.

[Tierce]

@ Tierce, regarding Konowa, the reason you think is town seems really weak. Scum could potentially have asked town what to do with their info to make it seem like they want to hear town's opinion's about it. Also, unless I missed something, why don't say anything to Konowa about how he should use his info?

This doesn't make sense either:

Vi is being etc. Konowa is probably Town,

carry on

.

When have you ever told town to "carry on" as opposed to actively demanding that Player X needs rope. I've never seen you not try to take centerstage in any game that I've played with you or read where you were town. Although, admittedly, you never did this as scum either, so I am not sure what to make of it.

Why didn't

I

say anything to Konowa on how to use this info? I'm not his mother and I have no real opinion on how he should use it because he doesn't even seem to have much info. Vi is a master of vaguety vagueness ~foreboding~ ~~stuff~~. And no, again, I don't think this is the kind of situation where scum would ask whether to out it.

I said "carry on" regarding Konowa, as I think he's Town. What else am I supposed to do at present, cry out for NS's death? Empire is already doing that, I don't to parrot him. In addition, I have been taking plenty of center stage and obvTowning all up in this thread. I'd actually like to get reads on people and not just go "golly gee, I'm really Town" whenever I poke the game.


And thanks!

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Empire, okay. Your reasoning for getting a townread on me was also based on meta-reference, so I can buy your read on Saulres.

Tierce, you never offered any opinion on my accusation of Shmugen nor did you offer any opinions on Shmugen's responses. You also never said anything about my comments on Empire and only responded at the ones directed at you. You didn't say anything about Saulres calling out Shamrock and NS on lurking. And yeah, that seems different from how you act as town. Last game we played together, I remember I made a comment that "Player X and Player Y are lurking" and you generated a 10 page discussion from it. In this game, nothing. Only responding to questions directed at you.

To be fair, I do find it annoying that NS hasn't responded to the FOS on him yet.

[Tierce]

No, I haven't. As you well noticed, my birthday is just over, and while it was a calm day, I did not spend it poking overmuch at my games. I think I may even have a pending question or two from people here, and there may be some points I want to clarify. But that and actually reading other people is going to wait until tomorrow, because I really can't be bothered to do so today. \o/ Too busy with new books and plushies and warm feelings. I don't want Tierce-needs-to-yell-at-people mood for a few hours yet.

Chill, kid. It's my birthday, it's All Hallows Eve, I'll get to it.

[Konowa]

Gut read, but I'm confused as to why F-16 is tying to undermine Tierce's townread on me? I really don't see the town motivation here.
I get the points against NS, but I'm more inclined to think Xaxle is scum. With how much white knighting he's doing also, I'm also inclined to believe they aren't scum together.

[Nobody Special]

To be fair, I do find it annoying that NS hasn't responded to the FOS on him yet.

Doesn't take much to annoy you, does it?

I truly haven't seen anything to respond to, and I'll be catching up later tonight and possibly tomorrow.

[Tierce]

the

Xalxe

, thus spelled

Thank you.

<--- is a good cultist

[Konowa]

Oh, I get that earlier post now.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Gut read, but I'm confused as to why F-16 is tying to undermine Tierce's townread on me? I really don't see the town motivation here.
I get the points against NS, but I'm more inclined to think Xaxle is scum. With how much white knighting he's doing also, I'm also inclined to believe they aren't scum together.

I am not trying to "undermine" a town-read on you. I am trying to figure out if Tierce had a legit townread or is just pulling stuff out of thin air in order to have a townread.

[Tierce]

So... the only person I'm legitimately caring about keeping alive for now because I really can't be bothered reading the rest

would be a shaky townread

? Give me some credit here.

(Actually,

have

you seen me produce good, solid townreads as scum? :/ That game was lousy, but as scum I can pick up on legitimate Towntells (kind of easy if I know the players are Town, anyway). If I didn't bring forth good Townreads in our game where I was scum, I can understand why you're digging, but--as I said, give me some credit, I use scum games to sharpen my Townhunting for future games. (>")>)

Wheee I'm rambling. It's past 3 AM, I'm off to bed.

[Konowa]

The way you [F-16] are questioning her doesn't read as from town. She gave reasons, and then you resort to meta as to why she might be manufacturing a read.

Ten minutes to go before its the next day here. Happy birthday Tierce!