NY 160B - Welcome to Castle Zar - TIME FOR FIREWORKS!

[Mehdi2277]

You're the one who just said you could have multiple suspects. That was a reason to vote you. Another came which was Emp seemed like a bad lynch. Together I found you worst.

And I disagree that any contradiction is that weak of a scum tell.

[Zar]

The Western Tower bedrooms have been recently reopened for room reservations. The Tower had been long off-limits for visitors since the appearance of the body of a Westerosi man known as Masonity with the phrase "Threevil obvScum mod" written in blood in the ceiling.

Day 1, Votecount 4

Empire (4): Tammy, Johhog, Ser Arthur Dayne, MagnaOfIllusion

Mehdi2277 (2): SnowStorm, Vi
Nobody Special (2): Baby Spice, Empire
ArcAngel9 (1): Konowa
Johhog (1): Mehdi2277
Konowa (1): Nobody Special
Vi (1): Maestro

Not Voting (3):

roflcopter, ArcAngel9, Kingmaker

With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Deadline

: Friday, December 21st, 2012 1:00 PM New York Time. (GMT-5) (End of the Mayan Calendar! )

Countdown to deadline

: (expired on 2012-12-21 13:00:00)

Konowa is V/LA until Sunday

MagnaOfIllusion is V/LA until Monday

[Johhog]

You're the one who just said you could have multiple suspects. That was a reason to vote you. Another came which was Emp seemed like a bad lynch. Together I found you worst.

And I disagree that any contradiction is that weak of a scum tell.

You still fail to make any sense at all. It was one reason to vote me? It shouldn't have held any weight at all. I didn't have the time to answer it. YOU-VOTED-BEFORE-I-POSTED-AND-COULD-ANSWER. Is it that hard to understand?

I still believe that Empire's opportunism was a stronger scum tell but you just dropped another one, you're afraid of manning up and defending your reasoning.

UNVOTE: Empire
VOTE: Mehdi2277

[Mehdi2277]

You not understanding it doesn't mean I didn't explain. I asked you because I found it scummy. I then found something else scummy on you and decided to vote you. Is that clear?

[Johhog]

Your reading comprehension is atrocious. I will say this once more before I give up and shoot myself.

You claimed that one of the reasons for voting me was that I hadn't answered your question

. I know that you said that you have other reasons, but you said that was one reason. You're acting like I invented the whole thing but guess what? I have proof.

VOTE: Joh partly since I haven't gotten a response to my question

VOTE: Joh partly since I haven't gotten a response to my question

VOTE: Joh partly since I haven't gotten a response to my question

[Mehdi2277]

I asked you because

I found it scummy

.

I can use it as a reason without a response yet.

[Vi]

Your reading comprehension is atrocious. I will say this once more before I give up and shoot myself.

Don't do that;
1) we're directing the Vig to ArcAngel9,
2) that sort of talk will get you banned in the discussion forums. Or something like that.

[Johhog]

partly since I haven't gotten a response to my question

since I haven't gotten a response

No, you can't! You can say "I suspect John because he was wrong in saying that Empire is opportunistic and I think he tried to show Empire in an unnecessarily bad light". You can't say "I suspect John, partly because he didn't answer my question"

when I didn't have time to answer your question

. You say that my response is scummy. Fine, think so. That's your opinion. But you can't say that you suspect me because I didn't answer your question when I did as soon as I got the chance.

PEdit: Vi, I'm not serious, however you managed to interpret my post as that. It's not like I'd vig myself (is that even possible?) over this.
I'm just fascinated (and frustrated) over how bad Mehdi is at reading.

[Baby Spice]

Unvote
Vote Johhog

Johhog, you seem to be extreemly focused on one point and ignoring the second point that Mehdi mentioned in that post 75.

Medhi, could you repeat or elaborate on what you didn't like about Joh's post?

[Mehdi2277]

A. The idea Empire is being opportunistic when it makes little sense to be jumping on someone this early and expect it to be enough for an easy lynch.

B. Primarily let's look at the empire wagon. It consists of him, SAD who actually really pushes it, me, Tammy's rvs vote, and Magna who's also said other things and asked some questions. Of those 5 I find him worst and since I think emp is town I'm expecting at least one of the votes to be from scum.

Lastly, I think my point is clear to most people and you think that since I ask you something about a scummy thing I have to wait before I can use that as a reason. I don't.

[Mehdi2277]

Vi vig shooting AA would still be a dumb shot until you explain how she's scummy instead of just playing a bit dumb.

[Empire]

I don't have much to comment on; you think I'm reaching yet I'm completely serious. You view my vote as awkward. Okay, what am I supposed to do with that, give you a hug and tell you it'll be all better?

No that's fine, thanks. I just wanted you to say

something

since commenting on the initial vote and not the reasoning after seemed weird.

I just checked that game and although his entrance seems a little bit awkward, how it is similar to his entrance here?

One more question, Empire. Were you aware that NS is considered an easy target?

Answering these two together.

Yes, I am aware that he's considered an easy target. I'm

also

aware though that he tends to be really lurky/low content as both alignments and that makes reading him a challenge since he generally tends to be percieved as scummy. Hence why I voted him: I saw his first post vote on Konowa, on its own, as an awkward joke similar to the whole "vote the mod" thing in that game where I was scum with him. When he later implied that the vote was serious, my initial impression was that the reasoning behind it seemed like a stretch so I decided to place a vote down on him because: 1) he did something I felt was slightly scummy, and 2) to force him out a bit. I decided to go even further and make the initial vote unexplained to see how other people would react to it.

---

Anyway, here's where I'm at right now with regards to my reads. Game's still early but I got a couple of things I feel pretty good about though some others feel very tentative and I'm really looking forward to hearing from some of the people who haven't fully checked in yet.

I very much liked AA9's entrance into the game, liked post #7's "finally!!" as people (especially newcomers) generally prefer to be town and I don't think she would have been so excited to start the game off as scum. Find the warm friendly hello post in #8 to be genuine and I feel like she would have been a bit more clammed up as scum. I also liked her being freaked out over the quick RVS votes as it came off like she was concerned people were rushing things and the implied "slow it down" attitude of #15 to be genuine. The call to push the game out of random voting #48 seems legit too, not really seeing the issue Vi was pointing out with his #71 as there was a bit more content between the first and the second quote there. Johhog's transition from voting me to asking me if I had played with NS before #32 + #33 seems fairly natural and his reasoning for doing so in #87 is understandable given that NS is indeed a frequent ML tagret in his games so him being put off by my vote on NS comes across as a towntell. His being frustrated at Mehdi and suspecting him for not giving him an opportunity to respond to his question and the reasoning he provides in #100 checks out. Konowa being frustrated by NS trying to diffuse the initial AA9 wagon in #18 + #20 comes across as fairly townie as well. Snow being put off by the reasoning behind my wagon and singling out Mehdi for disagreeing with Arthur/Johhog while simultaneously putting a vote down on me comes off as townie as well.

Not really feelin' Mehdi this game either but for mostly different reasons than some of the others here, I think (his vote on me is fairly null). My worry about him is more meta-based - as scum, he tends to engage in this very cold, mechanical line of questioning and comes off like he's detached. Check out his scum games in Open 463 and Micro 63 and I think you can see what I mean (both games are him in hydras, but he writes the overwhelming majority of the posts). Contrast with Marketplace II and the recently finished Low Effort Mafia where I think there's a bit less of that. Need to reread those games to be more sure though. Also, not really feeling the townread on me in #75 as I think the "lacks apathy" angle is a little too easy.

Not sure what to think about Vi either. On the one hand, him agreeing with Snow about Mehdi's vote seems like something I can definitely see him doing as town but I still get bad vibes from his #71. The structure and the implied thrust of it is something I recall seeing in his scum games where he cherry picks seemingly inconsistent quotes from people to make them look bad with no accounting for any of the changes that happened in between. Need to dig into this more too though. However, looking to NS meta is something that's going to take top priority for me right now as the confident snarkiness of his responses are something new and I want to see if that reaction comes from him as scum or as town.

P-Edit: Ugh, yeah, definitely need to go over those Mehdi games again as the most recent stuff seems more like town-him.

[Mehdi2277]

The lacks apathy angle fits fairly well from what I've heard of you disliking scum quite a bit more (I've never read your scum games though).

And you read Low Effort by the looks of it and NS played more confident there as well when it came to being pressured.

Next, I'm curious why you'd need to pore over my meta again. I thought open 463 meta analysis would be enough unless that somehow was partly forgotten?

[Empire]

The lacks apathy angle fits fairly well from what I've heard of you disliking scum quite a bit more (I've never read your scum games though).

And you read Low Effort by the looks of it and NS played more confident there as well when it came to being pressured.

Next, I'm curious why you'd need to pore over my meta again. I thought open 463 meta analysis would be enough unless that somehow was partly forgotten?

NS was pretty much a non-entity there from what I recall (he posted maybe like 3 times total?) so I don't think that game's a good one to look at when it comes to his meta - I mean, it's pretty telling that, off the top of my head, the entire scum team decided to fake a guilty on him. Also, I had a pretty tough time reading you in 463 (if you remember, I thought the scumteam was N/Thor) and while Regfan and I had an easy time with you in Marketplace, I can't really say I'm confident.

(P.S.: You should read my scum games, they're really funny and embarrassing.)

[Mehdi2277]

I mainly don't think you'll get anywhere meta analyzing me similar to what thor said on my town and scum play aren't different. I do know a few minor differences meta wise that I have trouble dealing with but I just doubt you'll find them.

When winter break starts for me I'll go through one of your scum games. Right now though I'll just go with you dislike scum so when you're not apathetic you're more likely to be town.

[Mehdi2277]

And emp what do you think of your whole wagon?

[Empire]

Erm, thought I answered it up there? Johhog's vote was fairly townie, got nothing on MoI or Arthur and have them as fairly null still, think Arthur could plausibly fake that reasoning as scum and MoI hasn't given me anything to work with you. And like I said your vote doesn't strike me as suspicious, my worry about you is based on other stuff.

[Empire]

EBWOP: Should say "MoI hasn't given me anything to work with yet."

Am I still drunk or something?

[Vi]

Not really feelin' Mehdi this game

either

Who was the first person?

[Empire]

No first person, was meaning to use it in the sense of voicing agreement with others.

[Vi]

Why is anything that ArcAngel said alignment-relevant?

[Maestro]

As I may or may not have remembered to warn about in-thread, I am going to be

V/LA from now until Sunday, January 6th

.
If the Mod feels that this is long enough to warrant a replacement then I apologize for the inconvenience.


Happy Holidays to everyone!
~Maestro

[Tammy]

empire is town! And if by some chance I'm wrong it will be apparent soon but I really doubt im wrong. Though I town read him from his first post, then got somewhat suspicious, but knew I'd get yelled at if I was wrong about that :p. but yeah he's town.

Archangel is weird. I don't necessarily agree with empire on his town read of archangel but that's mainly because of her passivity rubs me the wrong way, most specifically her refusal to give any of her own thoughts. Especially when they post the same exact question in more than one game. I find her complaints about there not being any scum hunting, but no proactivity to actually do anything herself as off especially after claiming to have experience as both alignments. (there is something that makes me lean town here but I can't put my finger on it and wouldn't at all be upset at a VIG shot here)

I'm reading johhog as town. Partially be ause of his reasoning for voting empire, partially because he sounds the same as he did in rocky, and partially because I sympathisize with his frustration with mehdi. I have no clue why baby spice is coming to mehdi's rescue over this ordeal when the fact is he is claiming that one of the reasons he finds johhog suspicious is because he didn't answer a question that he hadn't been here to be able to answer or ignore. And I'm having trouble seeing mehdi as town here right now myself. And it's two fold. So, mehdi originally voted empire for thinking he was scummy for a meta reason for not giving a reason for why he voted nobody special in the first place in Post 44. He then later unvoted for another "apathy" meta reason, which whatever, but then immediately started scumhunting the wagon he was on.

So, when mehdi had his own reasons for being on empires wagon it was fine, but when he decided to jump off, any other reason to be on empire's wagon had to be scummy. *shakes head*. Quite frankly johhogs reason for voting empire was one of the least scummy actually. He didn't in any universe say that empire was going for a quick lynch...he said he was going after an easy target. Which is 100% an easy scum tell. Scum often like to go after easy targets, and it made perfect sense with his follow up question if empire had ever played with nobody special before. I don't agree with johhog that it's the case with empire as I do think that nobody special was awkward in a way that would remind empire of their experience as scu together. (and kingmaker it's not that it's an exact correlation but that the sense of awkwardness feels similar.).

Oh and johhog, Post 31 doesn't come from empire!scum pretty sure.

Mehdi, I figured that an unexplained initial vote would have more of an impact.

You'll be happy to know that a large number of players on this site view such an action as inherently scummy.

However, I still think Konowa is scummier than you are.

This is stupid and you know this. You're trying to tell someone they should act with how others would perceive hi as scummy in mind. And the fact is, it's not scummy to vote someone without reasoning, and it's not perceived as such. It can be a really great tool at reading people. What are you trying to accomplish here?

Also, NS what are you trying to prove in Post 74 ?

Posting this as a prod dodge, I will try to post tonight though.

Unvote

Why did you unvote and not vote anyone else?

I feel a little better about kingmaker for actually checking that game that was referenced though.

Okay...empire is holy fuck town, of you've read this far and are still voting him with conviction. You get to explain why. Also, johhog is town, so anyone voting him can put explanations in the box.

Decentish town reads on snowstorm ..oh hey I just looked and that's all I feel good about.

(also, please forgive me if I misread something right now...I'm on pain medication. I don't think I'm disoriented anymore, but there's still that possibility.)

Town reading: empire, johhog; semi-townreading: snowstorm.

Totally would not mind a vig of archangel and am slightly town reading vi because of his comments on it,

Oh and VOTE: mehdi

[Mehdi2277]

AA is town because if you've caught up to emp's paragraph on it then that explains it best. Mainly it's just her positiveness. Wanting to vig someone that annoys you is always a dumb idea.

And do you really think an easy target vs trying to quick lynch someone are that different? As for the question thing I'm not sure how I can make that clearer since that was responded to multiple times. I still find it strange that joh thinks I contradict myself and a contradiction is a weaker scum tell then emp being opportunistic.

[roflcopter]

empire, vi, tammy all town

vote: mehdi