Khan's Unnamed 3p Mafia II (Micro 175) {Game Over}

[saulres]

Incidentally, you shouldn't have claimed, Zach. I think. But that cow's been milked.

This statement is not said from town to someone they think is scum.

[saulres]

Tierce, do you counterclaim (or co-claim) Zach? Are you also claiming supersaint?

[Zachrulez]

I expect this game to have new Tierce posts in it when I come back to it tonight.

[saulres]

She sleeps a lot, doesn't she?

<3

[Tierce]

My ability to sleep through the apocalypse is envied by many and shared by few.

I'm in the middle of an Alpha Omega session, will get to this once it's over.

Tierce, do you counterclaim (or co-claim) Zach? Are you also claiming supersaint?

No comment.

[Tierce]

Behold! She lives!

I'm pondering that after he saw this:

Tierce and I can call each other scum while zach-scum goes on to win

he couldn't resist setting it up that way. There's a 50-50 chance of that from where I'm sitting.

Setting the game up like this on purpose would be immoral; you're a mod, you know this. I know you go on wild speculation as Town, but why would you suggest KK is doing something like that? I think this is null, because I can't find

any

game-relevant motivation to say this (other than "let's make up random stuff to cover up the Zach rolefishing", but that's seems too far-fetched). But, by the way, this is kind of offensive to suggest regardless of whether you believe it or not (if you're scum, it's obvious pretense). Mods are not supposed to set up things like this on purpose. Don't suggest they do, that's gaming the mod and questioning their moral code.

I'm also wondering about this:

The game is in LYLO and will continue as long as necessary.

Theoretically we could all just not vote forever until he breaks down and tells us who the scum is just to end it.

Let's try something.

VOTE: Kublai Khan

This is scummy. It's much the same as NS's mod-vote in Vi's Mafia in Triplicate; it's a joke, and it

was

funny when I read it, but--you read the previous 3p game. Like with the wincon bit, it was in the rules in that game as well. You said you didn't read the rules in the previous game, but it's a

3p

game and you know there is a scum player due to said wincon and the fact that we are in LyLo, so we can't be "all Town", as you say you wondered. I know you're a rational person--speculation is not discordance, but in this game you have rather dissonant frames of mind. Did you or did you not know this was in LyLo/there is a scum player? Did you or did you not know that the wincon is the same as the previous game, so super saints are irrelevant to it because that's how KK writes things? The lack of knowledge makes no sense from a Town player who read the 3p Daycop game and who wants to verify things before making assumptions on roles. You're pretending not to know things to try and fish information out of Zach. However, I will grant you that I don't think you were familiar with super saints before this game, though you are familiar with vengekill roles.
Ramble ramble ramble etc. My point when I started this paragraph was that voting the mod is a cheap Towntell. My main point of contention here is: you were in Maf.Triplicate, you know I don't go on those things as evidences of Townieness, so it kind of doubles around and I go back to not thinking there's a lot of scum intent there. But it still looks fake, like you have nothing better to do yet are afraid to admit it, and chose to make that post out of a feeling of awkwardness.

But his not hammering me tells me I'm right.

I expect you mean hammering

me

, not

you

, but:
Claiming supersaint is suboptimal (Zach appears to have wondered if it was an iffy claim to make, if you look at Post 12) and you're trying to paint me as scummy for a theory point that is on the Super Saint wiki page, which you probably read if you were going through SS3. It doesn't matter if you "knew" the role or not, you're calling me scum for making a decision...

too quickly?

You do know I read a lot of games, right? Let's add that one of my first IRC mafia games was SS3 and I was the super saint. Also Open 390, with the Brass and Shrapnel setup. I don't have to wait on you to know things I've known for a year and a half about the SS/vengeful role.

I know it's not optimal to claim vengeful, and therefore have no interest in claiming or counterclaiming or co-claiming or

anything

in these circumstances. Consider the hypothetical scenario in which I'm a super saint, Zach is scum and knows there is a super saint in the game. He can self-vote on page 1 without worry, because neither of us is the kind to trollhammer as Town. He claims super saint, and if he's lucky, you either blurt out you are a VT, or I counterclaim. Then he knows you have to be the lynch, therefore won't hammer the real super saint (me). (Hypothetical scenario 2 is Zach is a Jester, and wants to be lynched (SS would be an AWESOME claim in that case), but regardless of my role, he can't be a Jester because it's not a Mafia-aligned role and it's not present in the win conditions.)
Outside any hypothetical scenario, I'm not going to be lynched in this game (you are NOT going to add to my two mislynches), and neither are you. Zach is the lynch, and he gets to pick who hammers him after self-voting. And I promise I won't laugh at you for self-voting even if you're scum, Zach~

No, Tierce, lynching Zach is

not

the way to go if you're town. Town would look at the things at their VT role (as I did), the wording of the town win condition ("dead", not "lynched"), and come to my conclusion that he's telling the truth.

...And? If he's telling the truth, he is still the lynch. Choosing to lynch a claimed super saint is not scummy, but you're trying to say it is:

And was I shocked to see her vote you right off the bat like that, instead of taking time to think it through. If she's "inclined to think that saul is scum" then she should have voted for me, not for you.

Bonus points for the posturing in the first sentence.

Incidentally, you shouldn't have claimed, Zach. I think. But that cow's been milked.

This statement is not said from town to someone they think is scum.

See above, under the LOLNOPE NOT CLAIMING section. It wouldn't be optimal for me to counterclaim as a supersaint, and I am not clarifying things on that end. It doesn't matter, because

I'm not the lynch

.

I think saul is scum, but it's up to Zach. #YOLetc.

[Tierce]

I had a revelation while staring at the microwave.

saulres is scum and believes both of us are super saints, so his only solutions, in his PoV, are to have Zach/I hammer each other--he has to vote first, or the first vote has to be a self-vote with him not voting.

Again, yeahno not going to claim. This is fun to watch. ^_^

[Zachrulez]

I had a revelation while staring at the microwave.

saulres is scum and believes both of us are super saints, so his only solutions, in his PoV, are to have Zach/I hammer each other--he has to vote first, or the first vote has to be a self-vote with him not voting.

Again, yeahno not going to claim. This is fun to watch. ^_^

Yeah, but you're not ever going to vote him for that are you? You're going to lynch me because we 'have to'. What if I pick you to hammer me?

[Tierce]

I had a revelation while staring at the microwave.

saulres is scum and believes both of us are super saints, so his only solutions, in his PoV, are to have Zach/I hammer each other--he has to vote first, or the first vote has to be a self-vote with him not voting.

Again, yeahno not going to claim. This is fun to watch. ^_^

Yeah, but you're not ever going to vote him for that are you? You're going to lynch me because we 'have to'. What if I pick you to hammer me?

No, I'm not. And if you pick me to hammer you, I'll do it; if you're Town, we even get to keep the beautiful statistic of "number of 3p LYLOs Town Tierce has won: 0". Win-win, right?

[Zachrulez]

Am I scum Tierce?

[Tierce]

I don't think so.

Why haven't you hammered me?

[Zachrulez]

I don't think so.

Why haven't you hammered me?

I was going to before your last couple of posts... then I had to go and actually think about things. Argh.

That or I'm scum who won't hammer because I'm afraid you are a supersaint.

[Tierce]

That or I'm scum who won't hammer because I'm afraid you are a supersaint.

Behold my masterplan at work~

[Zachrulez]

Kublai Khan really is a mad genius here, this is one hell of a stand off.

[saulres]

I'll respond to everything else through the day, because I have a busy one and there's a lot. But I do want to respond to this:

saulres is scum and believes both of us are super saints, so his only solutions, in his PoV, are to have Zach/I hammer each other--he has to vote first, or the first vote has to be a self-vote with him not voting.

Given that I'm a VT, yes, the idea crossed my mind that if we're not playing that setup above then the next most likely case is me vs a town supersaint and a scum supersaint. That would be an interesting setup. That's why I asked if you were a supersaint; if you said you were, I would unvote and ask you both to vote each other, and then convince me why the other one is the scum.

And if you remember Animal Rescue, you'll remember that if I had stuck to my "guess the KK setup" instead of letting the SK sway me from that, we town would have won. So I

will

stick to trying to figure out the setup in a 3-person game with one VT and one claimed supersaint, thank you very much.

[Tierce]

Kublai Khan really is a mad genius here, this is one hell of a stand off.

Come play this 3p game with me, she said.
It will be fun, she said.

Have I mentioned I hate LyLo lately? I kind of want to wash my hands of this and let you figure things out, but that would be cruel and unusual punishment and not really help Town.


saul, I said nothing about "figuring out the setup", and I am still not going to answer that question, for obvious reasons. (Hint: scum supersaint is irrelevant because the moment you hammer them they are dead anyway, no point in giving that ability to scum in a game like this.)

You were trying to paint me as scummy for knowledge I've had for over a year. What is the Town motivation in that? I thought I was the one who pushed pseudo game theory as reasons for votes as scum. "If she were Town, she would have waited and thought [things she already knew for months] through." This makes no sense coming from Town.

Try and emulate a better scum player than me. It's fun, but it's also kind of painful to see you posting just like I do as scum.

[Tierce]

I can just hear CES telling me there's no need to be mean in response to that last post. >.> Sorry, but seriously, don't ever ever style anything after my scum play, on purpose or not.

[Zachrulez]

I'm trying to figure out how we get out of this without being stuck in our own POVs forever.

[saulres]

I said nothing about "figuring out the setup"

I know you go on wild speculation as Town, but why would you suggest KK is doing something like that?

---

You don't see the fun in a setup of a town supersaint, a scum supersaint, and a third person trying to figure out which one's telling the truth?

I'm not ruling Zach out as scum. I'd like to see him do some scumhunting or pushing of issues. He has a fear of hammering you because of your softclaim, that I can buy, but he had the opportunity to quickhammer in 32,

before you made it

, and didn't do so. So yes, I could see him being a scum supersaint.

pedit: No meanness read into it, so no worries. Especially as I'm not "styling" my play after anybody.

ppedit: I was kind of wondering that too. Which is why I was hoping Tierce

would

claim supersaint, that makes it easy.

[Zachrulez]

I can't think of a solution for this other than the one I like the least. GAH.

[Zachrulez]

Really it's probably an aversion to actually being the lynch, but functionally me choosing one of you to hammer me is no different then if you are actually crossvoting, and it alleviates Tierce's issue of voting Saul and fearing scum me quickhammering.

So it's just that I have to make the leap, and I really don't like it...

[Zachrulez]

Vote: Zachrulez

[Zachrulez]

That was the easy part.

[Zachrulez]

Of course you realize Tierce, that if I pick scum to hammer me they won't actually do it?

[Tierce]

You don't see the fun in a setup of a town supersaint, a scum supersaint, and a third person trying to figure out which one's telling the truth?

It's called being confTown in 3p LyLo and it

sucks

. Not particularly fun, no.

I'd really love to take Zach's recent posts as a sign that he's Town, but I've seen zoraster pull an impeccable LyLo behavior as scum, so I am not taking words that don't really cost him anything as truth, and his self-vote can be a gambit if the lynch does not go through to the end. Been there, hammered the wrong person, got the loss. It has to be your choice, Zach.

PEdit: Yeah.