Mini #76, Black and White

[The Mystery Celly]

Okay...I think I'm going to leave my vote where it is, on Blackhawk. To me, it sounds like he's doubting the added role flavor even exists while attempting to say that he has it anyway. He has always acted a little suspicious and I think that without any cops, the only way to make sure is to let him hang.

Confirme Vote: Blackhawk

Same exact thing with Carmine, I think the only question now is whom to lynch first.

[MeMe]

Celly, I agree with your assessment of blackhawk's last post.

unvote: Carmine
vote: blackhawk

[blackhawk]

no what i

blatantly

inferred was that mine didnt have the extra stuff, mine just says

You are a townie who is out to extinguish the mafia.

it sounds like i'm an aspiring vig

[MeMe]

I'll just let the "aspiring vig" comment echo for a moment....

[Gammie]

*is so very very very lost*

Aspiring vig echoing = ?
Gotta help the dense out here MeMe

Unvote: Carmine

You do have a point with everyone could just claim townie, but as I'm confused, I may be doing more harm by keeping a vote on you than re-reading the thread a time or two and see if I catch anything. (If that made sense)

[MeMe]

Sorry.

As blackhawk himself pointed out earlier when he was questioning bloojay's extra info...this is a

black & white

game. To speculate that he might become a vigilante is ridiculous.

[Wacky]

This is interesting.

Carmine is just townie.
blackhawk claims his misunderstanding is as a result of confusing it with the win condition "You are a townie who is out to extinguish the mafia. "
bloojay "I am a simple townie who hates the mafia for killing some close relatives."

However, there are a couple of points that need to be addressed.

1. Quoting the mod is not against the rules. So, you may as well do that when you claim.
2. Polarboy is screwing with our heads. While it won't be Mixed Theme and Massive the Brontosaurus/Townie, there is likely to be some kind of weird variation of the townie role.
3. It would be slightly unfair to the mafia if they didn't know about it. They would probably have something like "You are mafia who is after global domination" or variations thereof, and having discussed during the night, deduced what we have here.

Thus:

a. MeMe has been implying that knowing about the stuff tacked on implies that the person is innocent. This assumption is questionable and suspicious. (See 3.)
b.Carmine's claim is probably no less believable (See 2.)
c. Blackhawk's claim is suspicious since
- Implying aspiring vig? Backups and vigilantes are both claims that mafia may be inclined to make normally, and would be characteristic of a mafia frame of mind.
- Extinguish? What kind of word is extinguish? What sounds more likely:
"You are a townie who is out to extinguish the mafia. "
OR
"You are mafia, who is out to extinguish the townies"

Maybe I'm overanalysing a bit, and taking assumptions too far, and trying to get inside people's heads, but I'm going to switch to the Blackhawk wagon.

Unvote: Carmine, Vote: Blackhawk

[Wacky]

Oh, BTW, here's a snippet from Mafia Discussion by Werebear that you would probably want to see.

~Begin Quote~
Re: Polarboy's game... As soon as the town lynches THREE townies, the game is over.

If the first three lynches are town, the game is the mafia's (there would be 3 town and 3 mafia left). If 3 of the first 4 lynches are town, the game is the mafia's (there would be 2 mafia and 2 town left). If 3 of the first five lynches are town, the game is the mafia's. (there would be 1 mafia and 1 townie left)

Here's how the third scenario might go, with two mafia lynched.

night 1 - town - day 1 - mafia
night 2 - town - day 2 - mafia
night 3 - town - day 3 - town
night 4 - town - day 4 - town
night 5 - town - day 5 - town - game over, 1 mafia and 1 town left

so the magic number is 3 in Polarboy's game.... and I'll bet on the mafia winning any day, with their ability to pile on votes and support unbased claims. I'll bet the mafia win day 4, with two still alive. (by win day 4, I mean it will be a tie when night comes, an automatic mafia win)

~~~~

[MeMe]

Wacky, I don't really want to argue with you because right now we seem to be on the same page about whom to lynch. However, I do want to talk about this --

3. It would be slightly unfair to the mafia if they didn't know about it. They would probably have something like "You are mafia who is after global domination" or variations thereof, and having discussed during the night, deduced what we have here.

Thus:

a. MeMe has been implying that knowing about the stuff tacked on implies that the person is innocent. This assumption is questionable and suspicious. (See 3.)

I would argue that it would be more than slightly unfair if the mafia

did

know about it. Three mafia are standard for a mini game. However, a doctor and cop are also standard for a mini game. It seems more likely to me that PolarBoy's addition of a little extra in at least some of the townie roles would be to help

us

, not the mafia -- who already have an advantage in a no cop/doc game. Now you could be right about the mafia knowing about the townie additions or having something similar in their own roles, but I doubt it.

Anyway...look at it from my point of view. I have a townie role "with flavour." I see two other townie claims: 1) with a little extra 2) with nothing extra. Which one should I believe? Duh.

[Carmine]

Well, what can I say? If I was scum I'd have come up with some variation on Bloojay's claim... howabout "I'm a townie. All I want is to be able to sleep safely in my bed at night"? Would that satisfy?

However, all my role says is "Plain Townie". That's all. Two words.

So, lynch me for it if you must, but is it possible that the reason that we can quote the mod is that everyone's roles look sufficiently different that nobody can fully confirm or deny someone else based on a direct quote?

[Wacky]

...true. I really should think things completely before I post. UnFOS: MeMe. I think I'm biased because of the earlier not-dying thing... I mean, it was a trap! yeah... noone fell for it.

However, "plain townie"? I don't recall you using the word "plain" earlier...

[Carmine]

It's only two and a half pages of content so far - is it really so much trouble to read my posts? They even have a conveniently bright-pink-n-red avatar to highlight them!

So, whaddayaknow, I'm just a plain townie, and everyone else will claim exactly the same.

And then

I don't have any flavour, I don't have any excitement. I'm just a plain townie.

[Wacky]

Sorry. Tend to skim read, possibly as a relic of playing mafia games on MTGNews too much (Phyrexian Mafia had about 56 pages of crap)

Again, I apologise.

[MeMe]

So, lynch me for it if you must, but is it possible that the reason that we can quote the mod is that everyone's roles look sufficiently different that nobody can fully confirm or deny someone else based on a direct quote?

What the?

Calm down, Carmine. Who's even voting for you any more? I was just saying that between the two I'm more likely to believe bloojay -- especially because his claim came first and is like mine. And if you'll check my last post you'll see I used the words "...PolarBoy's addition of a little extra in

at least some of

the townie roles..." I'm willing to consider that he may not have done this for every townie, but he

did

definitely do it for some of us.

[PolarBoy]

Vote Count:

blackhawk: 4

(bloojay, MeMe, The Mystery Celly, Wacky)

bloojay: 1

(Kerplunk)

No Idea: 1

(Fletcher)

Not Voting:

blackhawk, Carmine, Isaac, No Idea.

With 11 alive it's 6 to lynch.

[Kerplunk]

Why is everyone not voting for bloojay anymore? It seemed somewhat suspicious to me casting that third 'random' vote.

Then there's No Idea, who tried to divert the attention from bloojay to MeMe by posting crap logic. I don't think we should look at who got killed tonight. Maybe they are newbies not knowing that MeMe is an experienced player. Maybe MeMe is self the mafia. Maybe the mafia decided not to kill MeMe, which wqould make her look bad. There are so many possibilities.

The case Carmine, it does seem scummy not to vote for someone because you think you will lynched for that (or something). If all townies would playing like that then every day would end in a no lynch. But I don't think Carmine is scum. A hunch or something.

unvote: bloojay

he doesn't seem to be suspicious anymore..?

FoS: No Idea

. Diverting attention is scummy to me. And I would want to vote for blackhawk, because he was abit suspicious in the beginning and his talk the role-PM's. I don't know, kind of a hunch. Since he has already 4 votes I won't want to give the 5th, so that mafia will lynch him easily.

FoS: blackhawk

.

I'm going to read the thread more carefull, because there's definitely something scummy going on, I feel. Lot of suspects.

[Gammie]

Thank you MeMe, I was kinda out of it last night when I was reading

Well Blackhawk has already roleclaimed, and I think he looks awfully scummy with the vigilante thing and changing his claim (kind of.) So is our goal to lynch, or is it to get the right claim?

*sigh* I'm so lost again, I'll re-re-read the thread soon

[No Idea]

I'm a bit sick right now, so I don't really have the energy to start analyzing the game. That's also why I'm not very active. Sorry.

I also think Blackhawk is the most suspicious, for reasons already stated by MeMe. I don't want to put the fifth vote on him quite yet, so

FOS: Blackhawk

for now.

[The Mystery Celly]

In a game where the roles are either townie or mafia, (so it seems), I don't think we can be looking for the "right role-claim". At this point it seems that we're all going on very weak assumptions and/or false logic.....wacky....as to whom to lynch. To me Blackhawk has been looking the most suspicious, and on top of that has added no helpful speculation or thoughts to the discussion so far. I think out of everyone he has the best chance of being scum if we lunch him and the least chance of actually finding scum if we don't.

Do I have to confirm again?

I don't see anything else that Blackhawk can say to defend himself past what he already has. Unless someone comes out and says "HEY!!! IM MAFIA!!!" it's unlikely that we're going to find a better person to lynch. I say we put him out of his misery asap.

[MeMe]

I think it's time to see what blackhawk's death will reveal as well -- he's

already

claimed.

[Kerplunk]

vote: blackhawk

[blackhawk]

i didnt actually mean vig, i meant that it sounds like my role PM was based on a vig, not that i could actually become one!?!?!?!?

i need to clear these things up before they happen

[blackhawk]

What about bloojay? i dont think anyones noticed that he's only posted two or three times all of which were to confirm or vote for someone
Let me re read to make sure of this

and yes i would call that diverting attention to another player who looks a little bit scummier than me(in my opinion)

[The Mystery Celly]

Blackhawk, I guess you just don't understand the whole bit about bloojay's roleclaim. He made a claim with flavor when no one else had even mentioned it. If he was mafia, he would have just said "I'm a townie", he would have no way to tell that that added part was present. If the mafia gets flavor, which may or may not be the case, sure it's true he could have made up his own townie flavor, but thats highly unlikely. To me, and anyone else who logically looked at his role claim, he is most assuredly town. Telling us to lynch him isn't helping you.

Can we get a 6th?

[Isaac]

Hey there...

I don't even really want to be posting this, but I didn't post yesterday, and dammit, I want to post something constructive today. So I don't see why we should kill blackhawk. He didn't make a suspicious claim at all, he didn't change his claim, he didn't really do anything that Gammie is voting him for. It seems like he's being voted for now mostly because people want this day to be over. Which is, of course, a really bad idea. There's more than enough crap logic in this game so far without having to resort to lynching someone because we want the day to be over.

Now, for other things. I'm actually casting a suspicious eye at Meme these days. She started on blackhawk for no real reason. She has, what, five billion posts since the boards went up last? Yet all of a sudden, for all this experience, she somehow misreads blackhawks fairly simple claim? A claim that I, with my considerably lower post count, was able to figure out. Also, here's another thing. She says that it looks like some other townies may ahve gotten sllightly different role claims than what she got. But lord knows I had a completely wording of my townie role when I recieved it than anything that's been posted so far. It almost sounds like she never recieved a townie role at all.

Here's the thing about those townie role claims. I'll bet you that all of us townies got different wordings on our claim. Otherwise, in a game with only townies and mafia it would be too easy to make people claim and then lynch them if they got different wording, with too much of an advantage for the town.

Anyhow, I think lynching Blackhawk would be a mistake, and i'll be damned if i'm going to put the final, foolish vote on him. There are much more suspicious people in the game right now.