Favorite Video Game Tournament (Pokémon Wins! + Condorcet)

[Hiraki]

I hate saying stupid things too, good recovery though!

Okay, so if you really want to go down this dumb road, a road that advised you not take on my own will, then I can easily say I've beaten Tetris (i.e. played the game and fulfilled the qualifications needed to end the game->losing) more than a few times.

The point I was making, smartass, was that I wanted to see if the people who were voting Portal 1 had only played it once.

Hiraki~ I addressed your point with an analogy, I'm sorry if you didn't get it.

No, you quoted the first part of my post and forgot about the second. I'm not even going to argue with you if this is what I'm going to get.

Though your terminology of "main game" feels rather obtuse.

It's justified in the sense that people play the original DMC rather than the Ninja Theory DMC because the original DMC, whilst having the same (or close to the same) system as Ninja Theory's DMC, is preferred because everything in those games are just better. For Portal's example, you could play Portal or another puzzle game. I am puzzled on what Portal has to offer against other games.

Portal is game of the year material because it was one of the most original games of its time.

In a sense, sure. But again, as I said with my Half Life 2 correlation, no one says that the Gravity Gun was great. They say that Half Life 2 was great. I feel that the Portal Gravity Gun is the only thing going for the game. If I'm wrong about this, please tell me.

Just as well, Portal did a wonderful job of integrating story and gameplay together in a manner that blends them together perfectly.

I just can't agree with you here. The story is literally:
1) Beat the puzzles.
2) Hurray! You beat the puzzles. Escape dying.
3) Kill the thing that tried to kill you.

It isn't just a game, it's an experience

That said, Portal is far from any of my favorite game

No, this just doesn't make any sense.

But just because you can play something over and over out of boredom

No, that's not good replayability. In fact, that would lean toward little to no replayability. I'm not arguing if you can play the game again. Of course you can. The point is that you can play the game again and that it won't be boring or get old.

Saying that Portal is an experience proves that point immensely. I just don't understand how it can be a favorite game if it's really a one-time play and it's quite mediocre by definition.

Tetris being replayable and presenting a new challenge every time basically just makes it Bejeweled.

You could say that about any game that randomly starts, no?

[Tamuz]

Okay, so if you really want to go down this dumb road, a road that advised you not take on my own will, then I can easily say I've beaten Tetris (i.e. played the game and fulfilled the qualifications needed to end the game->losing) more than a few times.

You've never played tetris, lol.

[Yiley]

Really? Have you even? Tamuz?

[xRECKONERx]

You could say that about any game that randomly starts, no?

...yes.

Which seems to be the key thing you're trumpeting here... that it is random and the difficulty slightly increases each level.

[Hiraki]

Really? Have you even? Tamuz?

He's going for the fact that you can win in Tetris.

Which seems to be the key thing you're trumpeting here... that it is random and the difficulty slightly increases each level.

No, no, no. I'm saying that Portal is just about the same thing over and over again. I'm okay with this, as I said that the Legend of Zelda is one of my favorite game series and that is the same method. I don't understand how it could be anyone's favorite game due to the fact that it's not long, therefore it's not hard to forget things that happen in the levels, even if you can't replicate those events right now, and that it's the same thing everytime.

[Porochaz]

Round 4:

Match 57:

Tetris

Match 58:

Pokémon Red/Green/Blue/Yellow/FireRed/LeafGreen

Match 59:

Super Mario 64

Match 60:

The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask

Bonus Match 1:

Vote for up to two.
Super Smash Bros.
The Legend of Zelda: The Ocarina of Time

Bonus Match 2:

Pac-Man

[Brandi]

The point is that you can play the game again and that it won't be boring or get old.

But it does get boring and old, I feel. But if you don't feel that way I can't change that by arguing about it.

how it can be a favorite game if it's really a one-time play and it's quite mediocre by definition.

I feel Portal is a 2 or 3 time play to get the full of it. However, I disagree with this definition and I don't think it's reasonable.
I don't think a game is any worse due to how long it is. I feel that when it comes to certain genre's, such as... rogue-likes for instance, this would be a valid point to live up to. But games that have strong story elements where in beating the game draws a a singular conclusion, replay value shouldn't be a factor as to whether or not it's a good game.

I will double confirm that Portal is still not a favorite game of mine nor is it in my top 10, But I've played a lot of games and that would be hard to make.
I've never liked basic tetris and have never found it fun or worth my time in comparison to pretty much any other simplistic game of its nature.

But see, I realize that arguing something that is ultimately a subjective opinion isn't really worth all of these text walls. We can't agree on basic definitions on what makes a good game.

[PranaDevil]

Really? Have you even? Tamuz?

He's going for the fact that you can win in Tetris.

Which seems to be the key thing you're trumpeting here... that it is random and the difficulty slightly increases each level.

No, no, no. I'm saying that Portal is just about the same thing over and over again. I'm okay with this, as I said that the Legend of Zelda is one of my favorite game series and that is the same method. I don't understand how it could be anyone's favorite game due to the fact that it's not long, therefore it's not hard to forget things that happen in the levels, even if you can't replicate those events right now, and that it's the same thing everytime.

Welp... time to pack up all those old games from the 16 bit era and earlier.

Sonic 3 and Knuckles can be beaten in about the same time as Portal can (if not less time), and has much, much less story involved (Robotnik tricks Knuckles to attack Sonic, and steals Master Emerald, Sonic tries to stop him), do we argue that it's not very good due to it being so short? I mean that's in my top 10 games of all time, and I doubt it's shifting very soon.

I just... I don't get how the "length" of the game is an argument... if we're basing it on that the only games that should come close to the "best" would be RPGs, and while some of them are pretty damn good, some of them (Well... most if we're being honest here) are so ridiculously boring as well.

If your argument is about "Why is Portal still in the tournament at this stage?" You clearly worded it wrong, because you actually were arguing about why it was beating sodding Tetris, and the reason it's beating Tetris is because Tetris is a 2 minute time filler while you're taking a shit, and Portal is a game to play to get an interesting and engrossing story (which you seem to have completely missed as you played it with the sound off or something, I dunno...), with some really fun gameplay mechanics. Plus it does have replayability in the attempts to complete the levels in a quicker time.

[Hiraki]

Sonic 3 and Knuckles can be beaten in about the same time as Portal can (if not less time), and has much, much less story involved (Robotnik tricks Knuckles to attack Sonic, and steals Master Emerald, Sonic tries to stop him), do we argue that it's not very good due to it being so short? I mean that's in my top 10 games of all time, and I doubt it's shifting very soon.

No, because there's a variation of what you can do and where you can go and how you can do it.

I just... I don't get how the "length" of the game is an argument...

Again, it's not the argument. The argument is that it's short and there's little to no replayability value. It's not one or the other, it's the two bundled together.

(which you seem to have completely missed as you played it with the sound off or something, I dunno...)

Please, tell me about this "engrossing" story.

Plus it does have replayability in the attempts to complete the levels in a quicker time.

Do you really care about speed? Do you play Sonic 3 to see if you can beat your time from whoever knows how ago?

I'm dropping this.

[PranaDevil]

Sonic 3 and Knuckles can be beaten in about the same time as Portal can (if not less time), and has much, much less story involved (Robotnik tricks Knuckles to attack Sonic, and steals Master Emerald, Sonic tries to stop him), do we argue that it's not very good due to it being so short? I mean that's in my top 10 games of all time, and I doubt it's shifting very soon.

No, because there's a variation of what you can do and where you can go and how you can do it.

Is there? Not by much, you're still completing the same game in a repetitive manner. What about Mario 1? What variation would there be to that? (Ignore warp pipes because all that does is let you beat the game quicker, which means not really playing the game as such), sure you can stomp goombas a little earlier or later, but the only different might be when the spinys are dropped, everything else is the same, you complete the game in the same order, and there's nothing different on each playthrough, so why is that viewed as a great game?

I just... I don't get how the "length" of the game is an argument...

Again, it's not the argument. The argument is that it's short and there's little to no replayability value. It's not one or the other, it's the two bundled together.

But there IS replayability... just because "you" don't get the replayability doesn't change whether there is any or not, especially as after a year, chances are you've forgotten enough of the solutions that going back to the game mean it's still somewhat fresh, so yeah, a game that doesn't change can still be fun and enjoyable, and allow you to replay it. Otherwise pretty much all games which aren't open world, and/or have no customization of your character(s) fall foul of the lack of replayability issue. Thus stuff like Mario 1, or basically many old platformers... the Dizzy games on the Amstrad and Spectrum had a single method of beating the game, the replayability was there in working out "how" to beat the game, but once it's done... surely that means no replayability afterwards? The only thing that made it take days, weeks, months, or even years to complete those games was the fact it took forever to load the things to begin with, and when you died you went to the start of the entire game again, if they were released today where you just began at the screen you were on when you died I doubt it would take anyone longer than a day to complete them. There was no alternative to how to beat the game (the grease went on the cart, that's it, it's like an old style point and click without the pointing and clicking, but more platforming), so do we class them as bad games because of it?

(which you seem to have completely missed as you played it with the sound off or something, I dunno...)

Please, tell me about this "engrossing" story.

You mean the story of working out who you are, what's going on, why there's all the text scrawled over various walls (Ratman), the fact that Glados is part human... just because you can dumb it down into three lines doesn't mean it's not engrossing, it means you didn't give it a chance or that it wasn't a type of story you were interested in. Which is perfectly fine, but don't claim it is something is isn't just because you didn't get personal enjoyment out of the plot.

Plus it does have replayability in the attempts to complete the levels in a quicker time.

Do you really care about speed? Do you play Sonic 3 to see if you can beat your time from whoever knows how ago?

No, I play it again because it's a fun game, much the same as I do with Donkey Kong Country 1, 2 and 3, despite the fact that I know where a good majority of the bonus stuff is now and can do certain levels almost with my eyes shut. But that's because I don't go for the whole "beat the score as a challenge" stuff that some do, I play games because they're fun... thus I play Portal, but avoid Tetris like it's got the plague.

I'm dropping this.

Of course you are, as you had no real argument beyond complaining that Portal was a short game with no variation... while suggesting Tetris was better, despite it being a short game with no variation.

As I say, your argument would have had more clout at a different point in this tournament, you'd have still been wrong, but at least you wouldn't be arguing in a contradictory manner if you were suggesting Portal should lose to, say, Pokemon (which it shouldn't do in my view, but you would at least have had "some" argument as to Pokemon being a better game due to storyline and longevity).

[BS2000]

Opinions!

[Mastermind of Sin]

Tetris is in no way a better game than Portal. 'nuff said.

[quadz08]

motherfuckin' opinions

[chesskid3]

Match 57:
Portal

Match 58:
Age of Empires II: The Age of Kings

Match 59:
Super Mario 64

Match 60:
The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask

Bonus Match 1: Vote for up to two.
Super Smash Bros.
The Legend of Zelda: The Ocarina of Time

Bonus Match 2:
Pac-Man

[Quilford]

Portal
Pokémon Red/Green/Blue/Yellow/FireRed/LeafGreen
Super Mario 64
-

[BS2000]

I'm just anti-voting Tetris. Its a cool game, but fuck its vanilla, I don't want it to win.

[Untrod Tripod]

re: this whole tetris/portal argument

portal changed my life. tetris did not.

[Matias]

Portal
Pokemon
SM64
-

[mith]

Next round will go up sometime this evening, I think.

[mith]

Previous Results:

Match 57:

Portal

d. Tetris, 21-7

Match 58:

Pokemon Red/Green/Blue/Yellow/FireRed/LeafGreen

d. Age of Empires II: The Age of Kings, 14-10

Match 59:

Super Mario 64

d. Mario Kart 64, 14-10

Match 60:

The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask

d. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past, 8-5

Bonus Match 1:

The Legend of Zelda: The Ocarina of Time

(9) d. Pokémon Gold/Silver/Crystal/HeartGold/SoulSilver (7), Super Mario Bros. 3 (7), Super Smash Bros. (6), Bastion (5), Sid Meier's Civilization II (5), RollerCoaster Tycoon (4), Chrono Trigger (3)

Bonus Match 2:

Pac-Man

d. Frogger, Centipede, Space Invaders, 15-4-3-2

Round 5:

Match 61:

Portal
Pokémon Red/Green/Blue/Yellow/FireRed/LeafGreen

Match 62:

Super Mario 64
The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask

Bonus Match 3:

Age of Empires II: The Age of Kings
Mario Kart 64
Tetris
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past

Bonus Match 4:

Pokémon Gold/Silver/Crystal/HeartGold/SoulSilver
Portal 2
Super Mario Bros. 3

Bonus Match 5:

FreeCell
JezzBall
Mahjong Solitaire
Minesweeper
SkiFree

[mith]

Portal
The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask

The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Super Mario Bros. 3
Minesweeper

[Alduskkel]

Portal
-

Bonus Match 4:
Portal 2

[Hiraki]

Pokemon
Majora's Mask
A Link to the Past
Super Mario Bros. 3
Minesweeper

[Xalxe]

Portal
-

Bonus 3: Mario Kart 64
Bonus 4: Portal 2
Bonus 5: Minesweeper

[pickemgenius]

Match 61:
Pokémon Red/Green/Blue/Yellow/FireRed/LeafGreen

Match 62:
Super Mario 64

Bonus Match 3:
Mario Kart 64

Bonus Match 4:
Pokémon Gold/Silver/Crystal/HeartGold/SoulSilver

Bonus Match 5:
~~