Ultimate Videogame Topic 3: The Next Generation

[Ythan]

Idk if splash damage activates them too actually but I might be able to find a place to test it.

[Somnus]

Is this from a custom WAD? I don’t think there’s anything like that in the official games. There’s very few switches or doors I can think of in Doom/Doom 2 that require shooting to open them, but they can be opened with any weapon (including the fist/chainsaw).

And I’m guessing since you mentioned the super shotgun, Doom 1 isn’t in the equation here.

[Ythan]

It was just a thought I had, the ss could be used as like a key that persists across levels.

[Somnus]

I suppose it could in theory, but I don’t think there’s a way to differentiate between what weapon is hitting the switch to open it. And I think you’d have a hard time building a map in a way that only splash damage specifically from that one weapon would be able to reach doors/switches.

[Somnus]

Kinda funny. There’s a map in TNT:Evilution that I really like (might be map 15?) where there’s like a pain elemental and a cacodemon stuck behind a wall at the outer border of the map, and they’re built to be deaf. They’re only triggered to emerge and engage with you via sight...but they can’t see you.

The only way to truly 100% the map is to hit something near that wall with like the rocket launcher and hope that the splash damage hits them to trigger them. It’s hard to do and luck dependent, so 100% in competitive speed runs of the map don’t require you to technically get EVERY kill.

[Ythan]

Praying I remember that when I play that level, I go for 100%x3 and would waste a lot of time over that.

[Ythan]

I'm trying to burn all the monsters/items/secrets into my muscle memory forever before I stop getting them.

[Somnus]

I’ve now done that with episodes 1-3, some of E4, and about 2/3 of Doom 2. I learned how to 100% E4M1 (Hell Beneath) last night. All these years, it barely seemed possible. Pretty satisfying to have it down now.

I haven’t played TNT in quite a while, but I’m going to load it up and see if it’s the map I think it is.

[Ythan]

All these years, it barely seemed possible. Pretty satisfying to have it down now.

My feelings toward the original after last playing it as a child on the snes.

[Ythan]

I feel dumb I didn't know any weapon can be fired continuously by just holding the button. Move pistol up to F+.

Wow I love this on the shotgun and I LOVE it on the rocket launcher.

[Somnus]

Ok. As far as the official Doom IWADs (Doom/Ultimate Doom, Doom 2: Hell on Earth, Final Doom: The Plutonia Experiment, and Final Doom: TNT Evilution), these are the maps I know of where 100% is either impossible to obtain, extremely luck dependent, or cannot be obtained by conventional means. It's possible that there's a few more, but I'm not nearly as well versed in the two Final Doom IWADs as I am in Doom and Doom 2. I'll put the detailed explanations of why in spoilers.

Ultimate Doom:
E1M8: Phobos Anomaly
E4M3: Sever the Wicked
E4M7: And Hell Followed

Doom 2:
15: Industrial Zone
27: Monster Condo

The Plutonia Experiment:
11: Hunted

TNT Evilution:
15: Dead Zone

Spoiler:

Phobos Anomaly: Because the final room "kills" the player, obtaining all the kills in this room is quite difficult to do. Normally, 63% kills is considered the normal "maximum" in competitive Doom, even though more than that can be obtained by quickly getting some kills in the final room.

Sever the Wicked: In the first version of Doom 2, Map 25 (Bloodfalls), which was Shawn Green's first map he designed, has 0 secrets. In later versions, it has 2 secrets. Infamously one of the secrets in that map is an empty room on Ultra Violence and Nightmare (on lower difficulties, it contains a BFG). Once again, we have a Shawn Green map with some hilarious broken secrets. Likely due to a poor copy and paste job while designing the map, 18 stairs in a row are tagged as secrets, plus the room at the top with the megacharge. These can be obtained normally, but it's hilariously dumb. However, right before these, there are two torches that are tagged as secrets. You would have to literally step inside the torches to tag these two secrets, so they can only be obtained with the idclip code.

And Hell Followed: There are two secrets at the same location that involve an invulnerability sphere. The door that opens to the invulnerability sphere is too thin for the player to tag, and the ledge to the invulnerability sphere is too high up to stand on. Both of these must either be tagged via the idclip code, or by using the Cyberdemon's rockets to boost you onto the ledge. The door itself 100% requires idclip to tag.

Industrial Zone: The speedrunner, Zero Master, found a way to obtain this secret only a few years ago. One of Doom's creators and map designers, John Romero, even tweeted about it when it was discovered. There's a portal on a ledge that's too thin for the player to normally stand on and tag the secret. There's a hilariously dumb way to tag it by luring a pain elemental all the way to the portal, and having him spawn a Lost Soul "into" the player. This pushes the player ever so slightly backwards, just enough to tag the secret. This secret is not considered necessary for 100% speedruns, as until a few years ago, it was deemed impossible to trigger without the idclip code. Even now, it requires a painfully slow method of luring the Pain Elemental all the way to the portal.

Monster Condo: There's a secret that's only obtainable in the first 30 seconds of the map. After that, a wall closes over the area and it cannot be obtained. This is by design though. As long as the player is aware of it, it can be obtained normally. You just have to get to it as soon as the map begins. However, there is another broken teleporter secret in this map that isn't considered necessary in 100% speedruns. It IS possible to tag this secret with a very precise wall-running technique, but it is quite difficult to do.

Hunted: There's two exits at the end of the map. The one on the left just ends the map normally. The one on the right brings you into a room with a damaging floor and 4 Arch Viles. Much like the end of Phobos Anomaly, this map ends with the player "dying" or close to it. It's nearly impossible to kill the final 4 Arch Viles, even with a BFG shot. These 4 kills are not considered necessary for 100% completion, as they are EXTREMELY unlikely to obtain before the map ends.

Dead Zone: The Cacodemon and Pain Elemental behind the outer wall cannot be accessed normally. I believe something was SUPPOSED to trigger this wall to lower, but it never does. The only way to get them to come out is by hitting any floating enemy ABOVE their location with the rocket launcher and hoping that the splash damage hits them, forcing them to emerge. However, this is tricky to do, requires a fair bit of luck, and these two kills are not currently deemed necessary for 100% completion in competitive play.

[Ythan]

Hey thanks!

[Somnus]

Sure thing. Helped me too to have everything listed now that I’m trying to learn 100% for everything.

[Isis]

What is good local co op in 2022

[Ythan]

I've been dying to try out Doom's local coop but my local gaming partners atm are either seven or exclusively play animal crossing and stardew.

[Isis]

Doom is not cute t_t

[Ythan]

Cacodemons are kinda cute.

[Ythan]

I finally strung together the original three episodes 100%x3 without checking the counts before exiting in an evening. Kind of mentally exhausting. Chaingun might be better than shotgun.

[Somnus]

Ah nice nice. I did that last week and then have been working on Episode 4 separately. I can now 100% all of E4 (except for 4 secrets that require the idclip code to tag since they're broken). I still need to pick a day to string it all together in one deathless playthrough. Should only take me a few hours some night this week.

In the meantime, I moved on to learning to 100% the remaining maps of Doom 2 that I'm not all that confident in at the moment. I kinda skipped over 15 (Industrial Zone) for the time being, because I need to practice that wonky broken secret that is technically possible to get through some pretty ridiculous means. I've only got a few maps left and then I'll have to string together a 100% deathless playthrough of that as well in the next week or two.

And then back to trying to learn all of Doom 1 and Doom 2's maps 100% from pistol starts.

And then learn Tnt: Evilution and then Plutonia Experiment.

And then there's some really iconic custom-made WADs that are kind of mandatory to play through at some point. I'm going to be playing Doom for the next 5 years at this rate.

Not that they're new to me by any stretch, but man, most of the Doom 2 Hell maps are really underwhelming.

[Ythan]

It is fun, isn't it.

[Ythan]

I googled McCulloch Eager Beaver one time and now I get an ad about chainsaws at least once daily.

[Ythan]

I finally tried out really using the plasma gun and not just saving it for bosses and wow! The speed of the chaingun with rocket launcher dps and no splash damage. The projectiles didn't hit corners nearly as often as I thought they would. Run as fast as with the chaingun but even faster because everything dies immediately. And between it and the almost as good chaingun I never ran out of ammo for both. 100%x3 halls of the damned under par without attempting to!

[Ythan]

I audibly gasped the first time I changed tabs in Takemi's shop menu.

[Isis]

What's a good fall-asleep steam deck game?
I've been playing peglin hit its like slightly too axtiony. Into the breach has expansion content that makes the game worse but I never deactivate expansions and play the base game because I'm childish

[Ythan]

Are you talking about a game to play as you literally fall asleep?