Micro 267 - Indie Game: The UPick - Game Over!

[Desperado]

Sorry, busy weekend.

The Scorpion and Grimgroove thing looks like town on town to me at the moment.

On a semi OT (but indie game related, so yeah) note: I went and downloaded Surgeon Simulator 2013 today, hoping for a few hours of hilarious fun. I complete the operation on my first go with an A++. *siiiiiigh*

hahahahahaha wtf do you mean "at the moment?"

Vote: Hermy

[Desperado]

- Apologies for lack of content
- Baselessly calls a slapfight TvT
- More time on off topic shit than either of those things

[Grimgroove]

During the previos game I've played with Hermy, she set herself up as lynchbait in the beginning of the game as well. I would like to see her operate without any pressure at all before reaching any conclusions on that slot.

UNVOTE:

The slapfight might feel irrelevant to most, but it did affect my gut and that gut likes XScorpion as town.

VOTE: Trine

Also a serious vote, this time hopefully not based on miscontruings.

[Alduskkel]

Vote Count 1.03

Turkish Van (2) - Who, Trine
Grimgroove (2) - Hermy, XScorpion
Hermy (2) - Turkish Van, Desperado
XScorpion (1) - BROseidon
Trine (1) - Grimgroove

Not Voting (1) - Sanhora

9 alive, 5 to lynch.

Deadline is on December 14th, 12 p.m. PST.

Countdown:
(expired on 2013-12-14 12:00:00)

[XScorpion]

Well it certainly convinced me that I need to triple check vote counts because math is apparently an issue. Why the trine vote?

[Grimgroove]

Because of the paranoia-thing.

Vote: Trine

I fear that which I do not know

Is this paranoia?

~ Zoya

Looks like an (albeit humble) effort to get out of RVS.

Vote: Trine

I fear that which I do not know

Is this paranoia?

~ Zoya

It was actually RVS. What do I have to be paranoid of?

I see paranoia as usually a town trait.

~ Zoya

But why question someone over something you consider a town-trait?

I see paranoia as usually a town trait.

That's cool.

So why would/should I be paranoid of you?

I don't know. Should I take it as a sign that you are town?

~ Xoya

And this shows a strong inclination to townread Desperado. Desperado earlier said that he wasn't paranoid ("blank slates"), yet here Zoya insists his extended hand over the paranoia-tell that has been waved away by Desperado himself.

I see no progression (which could be explained by passing the ENTIRE thing off as fluff-RVS-posting) were it not for what I consider to be a subtle buddying-attempt in the form of an implied and persevering willingness to townread Desperado.

I'd like the Zoya-head to respond.

[Turkish Van]

During the previos game I've played with Hermy, she set herself up as lynchbait in the beginning of the game as well. I would like to see her operate without any pressure at all before reaching any conclusions on that slot.

The last couple games I've played with her she did scummy things on Day One and WAS scum, actually: Micro 240 and Mini 1500. I'm not so inclined to give her a pass on anything here.

--PA

[Desperado]

Grim, why are you encouraging someone to continue playing badly as town? Even if you're right and Hermy is town setting herself up as an easy mislynch, that is just a distraction--

at best

.

[Grimgroove]

I'm not encouraging her to play badly, I just think pressure makes her play more badly. I think Hermy should be easier to read if you drop the first impressions, the pressure resulting from that, and let her play the game first.

She doesn't react well to pressure as town. I've seen this first-hand in this game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=32103, where the only thing that saved her from a certain-lynch was her PR-claim.

Lynchbaits are a distraction, yes, but they're also exactly not the kind of lynch you want on a Day 1. It's still a shot in the dark and doesn't give the information a lynch on a less convenient target would offer.

[Desperado]

That's fine, but I'm not going to back off just because someone wilts under pressure. There are several objectively scummy things about Hermy's post, and I intend to dance with her.

[Trine]

Because of the paranoia-thing.

Vote: Trine

I fear that which I do not know

Is this paranoia?

~ Zoya

Looks like an (albeit humble) effort to get out of RVS.

Vote: Trine

I fear that which I do not know

Is this paranoia?

~ Zoya

It was actually RVS. What do I have to be paranoid of?

I see paranoia as usually a town trait.

~ Zoya

But why question someone over something you consider a town-trait?

I see paranoia as usually a town trait.

That's cool.

So why would/should I be paranoid of you?

I don't know. Should I take it as a sign that you are town?

~ Xoya

And this shows a strong inclination to townread Desperado. Desperado earlier said that he wasn't paranoid ("blank slates"), yet here Zoya insists his extended hand over the paranoia-tell that has been waved away by Desperado himself.

I see no progression (which could be explained by passing the ENTIRE thing off as fluff-RVS-posting) were it not for what I consider to be a subtle buddying-attempt in the form of an implied and persevering willingness to townread Desperado.

I'd like the Zoya-head to respond.

I have concerns about Desperado actually, which is why I tried to initiate some discussion with him. I didn't want to completely lay out what I would expect from him if he's town at that point, but his not pushing harder right off the bat to move the game out of RVS was of concern to me.

And, though Hermy has had some recent successes as scum, and they probably do hinge to some degree on people letting their guard down because her town play often looks scummy, I still consider his vote on her a little suspect. I don't think she'll be that difficult to sort.

If Desperado is town, I want to figure that out early because his reads are usually good and he's a good player to bounce ideas around with. Right now, I don't have a good town-sense about him.

~ Zoya

[Desperado]

What do you think about TV's vote on Hermy?

[Trine]

TV is also of concern. Pontius has his eye on them.

~ Zoya

[Desperado]

Why are you so distressed by pressure on Hermy?

[Trine]

Distressed?

Easy-looking lynches always catch my attention. Particularly when someone I consider a strong player seems interested in one.

~ Zoya

[Desperado]

Yes, distressed. Both of your initial scumreads(?) are directly related to their vote on Hermy.

And you're still sidestepping the issue. Does your argument really end at "Hermy is lynchbait?" If so, is it because you agree that their post was scummy as balls?

[Desperado]

And it doesn't really track that you are calling me a strong player but also accusing me of going after low-hanging fruit, which is about as noob-scum as it gets.

[Trine]

Yes, distressed. Both of your initial scumreads(?) are directly related to their vote on Hermy.

Both of our initial scumreads have their genesis prior to Hermy's first post.

And you're still sidestepping the issue.

I don't believe I am. I think you are sidestepping my issue, actually.

Does your argument really end at "Hermy is lynchbait?"

My argument begins with "why is Desperado not doing anything to advance the game out of RVS? Not even my half-assed posts at him elicited a snap." Hermy is an afterthought, though one I find somewhat concerning.

Pontius' argument re TV begins with "Why are they active elswhere and not in this game?" Where it ends, perhaps Pointius knows.

If so, is it because you agree that their post was scummy as balls?

Almost too scummy to be scum. Almost. Hermy should be fairly easy to sort.

~ Zora

[XScorpion]

I don't think she'll be that difficult to sort.

Hermy should be fairly easy to sort.

Can you elaborate on this? I find lynch-bait players the hardest to sort (bad memories of drmyshottyizsik).

[Desperado]

My argument begins with "why is Desperado not doing anything to advance the game out of RVS? Not even my half-assed posts at him elicited a snap." Hermy is an afterthought, though one I find somewhat concerning.

So when it became clear that your prodding me wasn't doing anything to achieve your stated goal (get out of RVS), why didn't you try something else? It looks a lot to me like you all passed the buck on to Penguin and I (calling her out for inactivity during a holiday on page two?) and then calling us scummy for not doing the work for you.

[Trine]

My argument begins with "why is Desperado not doing anything to advance the game out of RVS? Not even my half-assed posts at him elicited a snap." Hermy is an afterthought, though one I find somewhat concerning.

So when it became clear that your prodding me wasn't doing anything to achieve your stated goal (get out of RVS), why didn't you try something else? It looks a lot to me like you all passed the buck on to Penguin and I (calling her out for inactivity during a holiday on page two?) and then calling us scummy for not doing the work for you.

My feeling is that once RVS was done, it was done. Grimgroove and XScorpion ended it, and earned townreads in the process. While that was a lost opportunity to form a read on you, it won't be the only opportunity.

fwiw, your belated taking up of my invitation to discuss has been more in the vein of what I would expect from you as town.

[Trine]

I don't think she'll be that difficult to sort.

Hermy should be fairly easy to sort.

Can you elaborate on this? I find lynch-bait players the hardest to sort (bad memories of drmyshottyizsik).

Tone and timing, along with some meta comparisons.

[Trine]

Both the above are

~ Zoya

[XScorpion]

I don't think she'll be that difficult to sort.

Hermy should be fairly easy to sort.

Can you elaborate on this? I find lynch-bait players the hardest to sort (bad memories of drmyshottyizsik).

Tone and timing, along with some meta comparisons.

What exactly about tone and timing gives you reads? And how am I supposed to make meta-comparisons without having played with Hermy?

[Trine]

I don't think she'll be that difficult to sort.

Hermy should be fairly easy to sort.

Can you elaborate on this? I find lynch-bait players the hardest to sort (bad memories of drmyshottyizsik).

Tone and timing, along with some meta comparisons.

What exactly about tone and timing gives you reads?

I don't know, exactly, but I've been developing tone-and-timing-informed reads since I started playing mafia. But, they usually point up something more objective in the involved posts, and I can almost always explain my read in a decipherable form once it's jelled.

And how am I supposed to make meta-comparisons without having played with Hermy?

Cold meta is a thing. I've meta'd her for other games and I'll be doing some reviews to refresh my memory.

I'll be off the grid for a bit. Will check back in later today.

~ Zoya