I generally do, yes. It's not like they can discuss anything game-related, since nothing has happened, and it allows them to sketch some basic strategy even in a Day Start game. Since they're supposed to be the Informed Minority, this seems a very reasonable power boost.
Otherwise, it could really screw the players up, as the mafia could create an elaborate ploy and the townies would say "Well, they couldn't have planned it beforehand because we haven't had a night phase yet".
Then again, how are you going to stop it?
"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
I think they should be able to talk pre-start even in Day start games. I also think that if the specific mod allows for it, it should somehow be indicated in the rules in post 1.
MBF wrote:If I may play Devil's Advocate, I say No.
Otherwise, it could really screw the players up, as the mafia could create an elaborate ploy and the townies would say "Well, they couldn't have planned it beforehand because we haven't had a night phase yet".
Then again, how are you going to stop it?
Well then that's the town's fault for believe such a fallacious argument.
Untrod Tripod (7:27:18 PM): you enjoy whoring
xcaykex (7:27:24 PM): yes
xcaykex (7:27:26 PM): i know that
I generally do. I think it's a general courtesy to give them some time to at least go over some general strategies. I extend the same openness to talk to Masons. I don't see it as being a problem at all. In day-start games, I can't even think of a time that I've been scum and my buddies and I have actually talked strategy.
Mr. Flay wrote:I generally do, yes. It's not like they can discuss anything game-related, since nothing has happened, and it allows them to sketch some basic strategy even in a Day Start game. Since they're supposed to be the Informed Minority, this seems a very reasonable power boost.
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Glork wrote:I generally do. I think it's a general courtesy to give them some time to at least go over some general strategies. I extend the same openness to talk to Masons. I don't see it as being a problem at all. In day-start games, I can't even think of a time that I've been scum and my buddies and I have actually talked strategy.
Not sure I believe in having a confirmation stage in the first place. It seems like another apathizing (is that a word? it should be) waste of time. If people don't post in 2-3 days after getting their role, just replace them.
"I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be mistaken." - Oliver Cromwell
I usually do confirmations by PM if it's Night Start, definitely in thread if Day Start. One metagame thing it does is make sure that everybody has posted in the thread once, so that it can come up on their Watched Topics/Egosearch in the future - I choose to believe that it helps keep people participating better.
And anymore, I always try to remember to post in my rules that Scum can talk in the pre-game, since it became an issue in one Newbie...
It annoys me when I'm a mafia and we go into D1 without me knowing the roles of my scum-mates. I mean, its nice to know who the godfather is, y'know? If you don't have stuff like that in the PM's, there should at least be a chance for the mafia to tell each other.
Recently saw a flavoured game semi-broken by the mafia just not knowing that their roles were tied together, so when we did a mass soft-claim, they just floundered. Giving them the chance to talk would've removed this annoyance.
Primate wrote:It annoys me when I'm a mafia and we go into D1 without me knowing the roles of my scum-mates. I mean, its nice to know who the godfather is, y'know? If you don't have stuff like that in the PM's, there should at least be a chance for the mafia to tell each other.
Recently saw a flavoured game semi-broken by the mafia just not knowing that their roles were tied together, so when we did a mass soft-claim, they just floundered. Giving them the chance to talk would've removed this annoyance.
Agreed with everything here, and with Mr. Flay and Glork. Particularly, it also helps the feel and point of the game (finding links between people) when the links are given at least a couple of days to be established.
"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -
Mafia to talk night 0, and allow them to share full role PMs (as masons are permitted to do as well). I also agree with IH's comments about MBF's counterargument.
[i]The hungry maw of Twilight snaps, but shall not have its fill,
Until one man hangs by his neck, by half this curs'd town's will[/i]
If I wanted them to talk before the game starts I would have started either with regular night/ cop headstart/ a custom setting, where it is explicitely stated that the mafia can talk until game start.
I like to think it builds tension for the scum who then can't wait for the night to arrive and have a more lively discussion.
If I wanted them to talk before the game starts I would have started either with regular night/ cop headstart/ a custom setting, where it is explicitely stated that the mafia can talk until game start.
I like to think it builds tension for the scum who then can't wait for the night to arrive and have a more lively discussion.
If you didnae tell me that explicitly in my role pm, I prob'ly wouldnae realise - even if you did put it in the rules. I'm not the most stringentest o' gals at reading them everytime since they tend to be mostly pretty nearly all the same.
But it makes sense not to talk during pregame unless you have explicit permission from the mod; that way, you can be sure of not breaking the rules, and anyway it seems to me the default rule is you can't talk by PM unless you're mafia/mason and it's night.
"I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be mistaken." - Oliver Cromwell
Yeah, but based on this thread, most people seem to support the practice of talking pre-game, so I would assume only the most anal of rule lawyers would go "SEOL DIDN'T SPECIFY PRE-GAME ACTIVITY!" when its quite obvious from his statements in this thread that he would support pre-game activity unless he specifically said otherwise.
Unlike I am completely baseless in my statement about Seol and others in this thread.
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Fiasco wrote:But it makes sense not to talk during pregame unless you have explicit permission from the mod; that way, you can be sure of not breaking the rules, and anyway it seems to me the default rule is you can't talk by PM unless you're mafia/mason and it's night.
I don't see how something could be the "default rule" when overwhelming response to the inquiry was talking pre-game was cool and, in fact, encouraged activity.
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There is a good point here, though, in that we probably need additional clarity on the issue. I'm going to take another look at my ruleset to ensure that it does explicitly permit pregame talking.
[i]The hungry maw of Twilight snaps, but shall not have its fill,
Until one man hangs by his neck, by half this curs'd town's will[/i]
I remember Princess Bride. I wasn't sure whether I was allowed to talk pregame, so I sent a PM. By the time I got the PM back, pregame was over. So yeah, clarity is good.
Scumchat is awesome. Yarr!
~"Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign of a diseased mind."~
There's a world of difference (and hence confusion) between "scum cannot talk during the Day" and "Scum can only talk at Night". If players learned the former, then talking during pregame in a Day Start game seems totally reasonable to them. Since the shift to starting with Day happened recently, I can see where it could be confusing.
