what is the purpose of roles in the game of mafia?

[Rainbow Brite]

this should be checkbox, but i don't think i can do that here...

[Adele]

"All of the above"

[Mr Stoofer]

Which one equates to "To make the game more interesting"?

[GreenLiquid]

The most basic definition is 'to help find scum', but I think 3, 5 and (in themes) 2 and 6 also apply. Power roles don't just help the town, they help move the game along by giving the players something to speculate and talk about. Power roles also enrich claiming in the game.

Power roles spice up the game. Mafia would get really boring, really fast if all we had were vanilla setups. It gives the players more to talk about and adds a whole new game parallel to the day game.

[Rainbow Brite]

what i was hoping for was that people would disagree with some of the options. for example, i'm very much not in favour of being able to apply deductive reasoning based on flavour and nor am i a fan of puzzling out conclusions based on comparing five different night results.

"to make the game more interesting" is missing the point - make more interesting how? by introducing flavour, with humour or a storytelling aspect? by introducing a secondary reasoning mindset - logical analysis of results, or flavour-based analysis of claims, on top of behavioural analysis of players? by introducing traps in this reasoning, to give a degree of doubt and paranoia? to add an element of strategy for those in control of power roles? to bring about amusing situations?

particularly, it's as important to know what you

don't

want to do. you might add flavoured roles so as to make the game more interesting and relatable to fans of a particular ip, and at the same time inadvertently add a gamebreaking nameclaim element that you never expected to be part of the reasoning.

you might feel a

need

to start every list of town roles with "cop, doc, rb, vig, masons" and then work from there, without ever actually asking yourself

why

you started with that set.

you might end up adding roles to fit flavour for a setup without thinking what the role actually

does

, not only in terms of on itself but also in terms of interactions with other roles.

shouldn't have included the poll. it's a more interesting question when just laid bare with no prompting...

[Mr Stoofer]

Have a trademark? Overuse it today!

Vote: Rainbow Brite

[Adele]

shouldn't have included the poll. it's a more interesting question when just laid bare with no prompting...

I guess my response is exactly what you didn't want...

[Mr. Flay]

Vote: Stoofer

, clearly you're just bandwagoning...

Anyway, you could always remove the poll and just put the hypotheticals in the thread, Brite... that said, I think #4 and #5 are the best choices from the list. They liven up the game, don't destroy the balance when done right, and can also "give people something to do at night" even when it doesn't actually 'do' anything. I definitely disagree with #1 and #6; I don't start any game design with a base set of "must have" roles.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Fun + killing people.

YARR!

[Zindaras]

I like roles. They add more fun, more challenge, and more flavour to a game. Games would be pretty boring without roles.

[Fiasco]

To vary the types of strategic problems players face.

[ChannelDelibird]

Definitely 'all of the above'.

[Primate]

To vary the types of strategic problems players face.

this is my favourite suggestion.

[M4yhem]

To vary the types of strategic problems players face.

Quoted for truth.

I voted for the 'give people something to discuss' option. To me, the important part of mafia is the conversation during the day. I like night roles which give people extra things to talk about and I hate role that stifle conversation. This is why I hate sane cops like PJ hates cults. They are a conversation killer. If the cop gets an innocent then BAMF! no more suspecting that person for the rest of the game. If a cop gets a guilty, the entire day turns into a boring litany of vote:x. It breaks my heart to see it.

It doesn't have to be that way. With a partial information role like a watcher, you get more talking, as people debate thing like 'if x was at his home all night, does that make him innocent?' 'What about Y, he visited the dead guy, is that enough to lynch him?' Fun.

If you'd let me, I would also have voted for 'to add an element of deductive reasoning based on night actions'. I think the fun of being town is working out what's going on. As mod, you need to get the balace of information right. To little information and they lynch at random, to much information and they have nothing to do.

I think deductive reasoning based on flavour sucks. It turns the game into who knows the setting best/ who can best outguess the mod. Which is not what the game is about.

I quoted Fiasco because I have to explain my love for Vigs somehow and there was no 'to maximize the bloodletting' option on your poll.

I also like roles that add an element of uncertainty back to the game. Confirmed innocents are boring. So a cult recruiter would have a place in my game, properly balanced, of course.

[Norinel]

I'd say "any combination of the above, based on the mod's discretion". The mod can design a night game that does different combinations of these to different degrees; flavor, for instance, is pretty easy to make helpful, unhelpful, or antihelpful as you will.

[IH]

Nah, I'd say it's to add a layer of complexity.

Roles can help with flavor, but they don't HAVE to be there to enhance that flavor.

Roles aren't there to just help the town, or to just help the mafia, the essentiallity of it is to make the game more interesting. Mountainous games and vanilla games can become tiresome, and eliminates from some of the mystery, but when you add the number of roles to the game, like has been done now, you're always kept guessing what could be in this game, who is what and the like.

[Yosarian2]

My responses:

to assist the town in finding scum

Eh. A little bit, as giving the scum the nightkill but giving the town no night actions in totally vanillia games tend to lead to games be weighed against the town, but that's not really a main reason. I'd rather have "to help your side's odds of winning", as docs can help re-balance the game a lot without doing anything to actually "find the scum", and as scum night-roles can help with the balance as well. But even that's not a main reason for puttign in roles, IMHO.

to give people something to do at night

Well, giving people something to do beyond just voting, giving people some more stratigic choices to make, is a good reason to put roles in the game. Not so much "to give them something to do at night", as roles work even if there's not a night (see Speed Mafia, for example), but just to give people more things to do, sure.

to give people something to discuss during the day

Anything that gives the town more things to discuss during the day are good for the game. Investigative roles, roleblockers, vigs, docs, and other rule variations in general all can add more layers to the day conversation, to what people are saying and why, and more things to discuss in general, and giving the players more things to discuss that tends to make games more fun, IMHO.

to add flavour to the experience

Sure, that's a good reason. Especally in theme games, but really always.

to add an element of deductive reasoning based on night actions

That's the one I voted for, and perhaps my favorate reason. That dosn't mean it should be the "compare 5 results and figure it all out" kind of reasoning, but I like discussions like "X claims he roleblocked Y last night, and there were only two kills, so does that mean Y is more likely to be scum? How much more likely?"

I tend to think that a small amount of solid information to base reasoning off of, while not necessary, can make a game work better.

to add an element of deductive reasoning based on flavour

Eh. More things to discuss are better for the town, but the mod should be very careful not to give the town too much reliable information based on roles and such. But in small doses, as another topic of conversation to talk about, discussing if a role might or might not be in the game due to flavor reasons, or metagame reasons, or whatever, is probably a good thing, so long as the players's can't rely on it.

[Yosarian2]

To vary the types of strategic problems players face.

And that's probably the best reason.