Some questions about role names + Suggestion

[Zindaras]

I would keep my games below 30 players. It all depends on your public. You need active players and enough replacements to keep the game going.

[Kelly Chen]

For a forum game I think 30-35 players is pushing it.

What do you have in mind as "all the existent roles"? There are so many possible roles you could come up with.

One problem is that there are more special town roles than special scum roles. So when you try to include everything in the setup, probably the town ends up too powerful.

[undo]

What do you have in mind as "all the existent roles"?

Why, can we invent our own roles?

--

I have edited my last post with one more question... If you could check it up... Ty

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Yes, you can invent your own roles.

Also, you don't need to state upfront what roles there are in the game. Most games don't.

[undo]

But if you don't state them, people might get confused, specially if it is a theme game, no?

One more newbie question: how many people can the mafia kill each night? A lot of people being killed in one night (not necessarily by mafia action), is that possible?

[bigAl]

People can get confused, but that's part of the fun - figuring out the game mechanics.

I don't think that I've seen games with more than ~4 people killed/night (2 mafia, 1SK, 1 vig). Five might work in a really big game, but that's pushing it.

[Kelly Chen]

The whole point of theme games is for people to get confused and have to debate about what the setup likely is.

When it is revealed up front which roles exist (and how many), that's called "open setup." I like those because then a given setup can be played repeatedly.

Usually a given mafia faction only kills one person per night. There can be more than one faction, or a serial killer, etc.

[Mr. Flay]

The miller was named after a guy named Miller.

Who is that Miller? Anybody knows?

Huh; that's wild, I always thought it was somehow related to the Miller (person who runs a mill) living on the edge of town, and therefore being somewhat of an Outsider (the variant title for the role).

If you're used to Open Setup games, we have a whole category of them here you could start with (in addition to the Newbie Games, which are semi-Open in that only five roles are possible).

Open Game Signup List
Newbie Game Signup List

Bluffing is essential to the game for many roles. Lying outright though can backfire; I assume you've played before somewhere, given your familiarity with the game's roles?

[Raffles]

I would even say 20 is pushing it... typically 1/3 ends up lurking. Mini would do fine for me, unless you get interesting set up like kingmaker.

[Adele]

What do you have in mind as "all the existent roles"?

Why, can we invent our own roles?

Inventing roles is a lot of fun. Anything goes.

Like, do you know the role "beloved princess"? If the BP gets lynched a day phase is skipped on account of the funeral.

So say there was some way you could strip the BP of that aspect (because it's an anti-town attribute in a pro-town player). Say you could make the beloved princess

less

beloved?
...ooh, paparazzi do that! So a pap gets to target someone each night and if he gets photos of the BP then the next day an embarrassing article's published. Wait, embarrassing how? You'd have to have maybe a sex role; a prostitute maybe (prostitutes are roleblockers). So, what if you made the pap and the prossie masons (they know each other, can talk at night, and know they're both innocent) and if the prostitute

and

pap both target the BP in the same night...

That's a crap role. But who cares? I'll probably end up sticking it in a game anyway

[Dr. Doom]

Im quite new to the site too, and it helped me a lot to just read some of the old games - some are REALLY fun, especially "Bad Idea" Mafia, with the shortest Day One evr (thanks to Fritzler). Just read some of the old Games, you will get a better grasp of the game and what goes on this site then.

[the silent speaker]

1. Most mods have a fixed number of slots on the signup thread.

2. Probably, but I know I sure as hell wouldn't want to balance and mod it.

3. Some games are open-role and will announce all or part of the possible roles. Most theme games won't.

[undo]

I assume you've played before somewhere, given your familiarity with the game's roles?

I've never played a mafia game in my life. I'm familiarised with the game's roles because I've consulted http://mikeburnfire.sitesled.com/mscumB.swf many times. (it's a flash exe with a vast list of roles made by mikeburnfire, whomever he is)

You know, I don't like to get inside something before being well familiarised with the rules.

Thank you very much for your help. I'm glad to see you're good to newbies

Now I have another doubt. Imagine this situation:

JohnPlayer gets 4 votes to be lynched; PlayerJack gets 3. JohnPlayer is lynched and night phase begins. In the following day, does PlayerJack keep his 3 votes for lynching? Or does the vote count restart each day?

[Dragon Phoenix]

Nope, all voting gets reset to zero the next game day.

[Mr Stoofer]

undo, I think you'd benefit from reading some (a lot) of games on this site from start to finish. That'll give you a very good feel for how games/roles/vote counts etc work.

[undo]

I will follow your suggestion, but now I haven't got much time.

Say, from your experience, how can you tell if a set of roles is balanced?

Is this set, for example, balanced?:

4 vanilla townies
1 vigilante
1 doctor
1 cop
1 roleblocker
1 mafia traitor (knows who are mafia)
1 voteless governor

5 mafia goons
1 godfather
1 mafia doctor

1 paranoid gun owner (kills anyone who targets him)
1 third-party cult leader

[Kelly Chen]

It takes experience to judge where a setup might be unbalanced.

In that setup you have 8 aligned scum and a cult in a game where only 9 pro-town players can vote! It wouldn't be too hard for scum to gain a majority really fast.

[undo]

Oh... But doesn't the various habilities of the townies - specially the mafia traitor - give some power to them?

[Primate]

wait, so the mafia traitor wins with the town?

If this is the case, the mafia doesn't stand the slightest chance. It's just one town vs a smaller, weaker town.

[Mr Stoofer]

Normally the Mafia Traitor is on the side of the Mafia. If he was on the side of the town he would just tell the town who the Mafia are and that's the end of the game.

Either way, I am afraid that your set-up is grossly imbalanced.

I strongly recommend that you get a feel for the game by reading and playing in lots of games before starting to design setups or modding games.

I hope you won't take this as discouragement, but it is important not to run before you can walk. That's why on this site people have to have been around for 3 months and have played a certain number of games before they can mod a game; and even then their first game must be an Open Game or a Mini Normal Game. It's the only way to learnt the intricacies of Mafia.

[undo]

Yes, that mafia traitor is a man who traits the mafia. But what if he is not allowed to say he is the mafia traitor? Does that balance the game?

[Mr Stoofer]

Nope.

He'd just vote for all of the Mafia and then ask that he be lynched. Upon his death the town would know why he voted for that group of players and would know that they were Mafia.

[Primate]

Roles with information that they will be modkilled if they reveal happen to be very frustrating to play. You just end up with a bunch of players asking vague questions and a the guy giving vague answers, then cause it's the most important thing in the game, it stops becoming a game of mafia and becomes the game of interpreting vague phrases.

[undo]

I see. I need to read some good games then. Is there any famous well-designed games that I can read? Or can I trust that all games are good?

[Kelly Chen]

At least to talk about balance... People usually say 1/4 to 1/3 of the players should be scum; higher as the town has more power roles; and higher if those scum are split into competing factions.

A twelve-player game usually has 3 mafia (possibly including a godfather or a roleblocker), possibly a serial killer (who possibly has advantages like nightkill immunity or investigation immunity), no cult, 2-4 protown power roles (especially cop (possibly of different sanities), doc, vig (possibly one-shot), roleblocker, masons (usually a pair)), and the rest townies.

If a setup is open (with all roles and their number revealed) then the special protown power roles become more powerful, because it is very hard for the scum to get somebody lynched who can claim a role that is guaranteed to be in the game.