Open 563 - Jungle Republic (Night 5~)

[fuzzybutternut]

@Fuzzy, when you say scum, do you mean mafia specifically or both factions generically?

We may find scum (using this for both alignments from now on)

[Paschendale]

what the heck are you talking about

You're making banter instead of supporting your votes or trying to convince anyone else. You don't offer reasons or arguments and haven't offered a single useful read. Whatever you're doing, it's not contributing to town's chances to win this game.

[fuzzybutternut]

^That never has and never will make someone scum. Useless town =/= scum. Doesnt mean they shouldn't be lynched, but we should take out scum before we worry about useless town.

[Bins]

You're making banter instead of supporting your votes or trying to convince anyone else. You don't offer reasons or arguments and haven't offered a single useful read. Whatever you're doing, it's not contributing to town's chances to win this game.

I repeat: what the heck are you talking about.

I wasn't going to make a post addressing this because NONE of your arguments made sense, unlike Wickedjrs - which I could actually respond to. But now I think I need to point out how dumb these sound from my perspective. Because now you're insulting my town play. Which is fine, that's your opinion, but everything you said hasn't made sense.

---

First:

You

don't offer reasons or arguments

I'm not going to add all the times that I have been making arguments. Because you even acknowledged my arguments yourself:

She is

attacking SNS with a lot more clarity than Reinoe

Second:

You don't offer reasons or arguments and

haven't offered a single useful read.

Whatever you're doing, it's not contributing to town's chances to win this game.

Again, I think my stance on almost everyone has been clear (except those that haven't been talking). I know you and Bulge are scum. Sns and Reinoe are null, but sns is leaning scum and Reinoe is leaning town. Everyone else is towny (by that I mean bjc, probably wicked, fuzzy, not_mafia).

Third:

Bins vote is opportunistic as well.

I usually don't address opinions on what votes look like but grfaushdxnz.

My vote was the second on a "wagon" where the first vote had been BEFORE Bulge's flailing. I was going to make a post about it after I got home from school, but then you kept going on so I decided to switch to you because it's pointless. I'll make the post tomorrow and you can die today.




I repeat: What the heck are you talking about?

[fuzzybutternut]

Guise, please stahp.

The town v town arguments get us nowhere.

[Bins]

Why do you think he's town?

[fuzzybutternut]

He hasn't done anything particularly scummy + I've played with him before, albeit long ago, but his play style now is similar to what it was back then.
Like I said before, when we get a result from Bulge, we'll look at Pasch again.

[Paschendale]

^That never has and never will make someone scum. Useless town =/= scum. Doesnt mean they shouldn't be lynched, but we should take out scum before we worry about useless town.

They're scum if they're doing it because they're focusing on cultivating a non-threatening image to protect against future suspicion. Deliberately useless town is a far cry from being simply ineffective.

Contrary to what she claims above, "clarity" in this case referred to tone, not quality of content. And as you see above, her "reads" are as inoffensive as possible. Her only two scumreads are popularly criticized, she completely fence sits the Reinoe/sns argument, and calls everyone else town, despite there being five scum in this game. None of her reads are original or get us anywhere.

However, I don't disagree about Bulge, so I'll let Bins simmer on the back burner for a while.

VOTE: Bulge

[reinoe]

Pasch, have you decided to change your playstyle somewhat over the past few weeks?

[bjc]

He hasn't done anything particularly scummy + I've played with him before, albeit long ago, but his play style now is similar to what it was back then.
Like I said before, when we get a result from Bulge, we'll look at Pasch again.

Lazy

[fuzzybutternut]

Mist, can we get a VC plz. Ty bb

[Mist7676]

Of course!

Vote Count:

ShadedMelee

(1) - Desperado

Not_Mafia

(1) - The Bulge

fuzzybutternut

(1) - Maruchan

The Bulge

(2) - fuzzybutternut, Paschendale

Bins

(1) - Wickedestjr

snscompt1

(1) - reinoe

Paschendale

(4) - ShadedMelee, Not_Mafia, Bins, bjc

Desperado

(1) - snscompt1

Deadline in: (expired on 2014-07-30 10:47:12)

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch

[Desperado]

unvote
vote: the bulge

the composition of that paschendale wagon is absolutely awful

[fuzzybutternut]

Ty. <3

Moar votes on teh Bulge!


Edit: That's the spirit!

[bjc]

I'll play along.

vote: bulge

[The Bulge]

God dammit. Nothing I say will get me out of this, I suppose.

One question though. I still don't understand why my flip gets the most info? Wouldn't Pasch's flip (you know, the massive wagon...) give the most info to analyze?

[snscompt1]

UNVOTE
VOTE THE BULGE

Yeah. Um. So bjc...you scum?

[fuzzybutternut]

Pasch is town. I can almost guarantee it. You, on the other hand, I believe are scum. So...no. Not really. The thing about this setup is that EVERYONE has to scum hunt to play to their win condition. Werewolves have to find and eliminate mafia in order to win. And vice versa. On day one, it doesn't matter who is on what wagon.

[Desperado]

Wouldn't Pasch's flip (you know, the massive wagon...)

you are now the "massive" wagon

[The Bulge]

Pasch is town. I can almost guarantee it. You, on the other hand, I believe are scum. So...no. Not really. The thing about this setup is that EVERYONE has to scum hunt to play to their win condition. Werewolves have to find and eliminate mafia in order to win. And vice versa. On day one, it doesn't matter who is on what wagon.

I CAN guarantee that I'm town. If you think my lynch gives the most information, fine. But I hope you're looking at all the possibilities and preparing to analyze a town flip. I'm clearly not the best at arguing or putting my thoughts into words, so nothing I say will stop this.

[snscompt1]

UNVOTE

I believe you. Maybe Im just gullible. Gonna reread laterrrrrr.

[Maruchan]

L-1

VOTE: The Bulge

PEDIT: L-2

Sheepin dav, because hes a smart cookie and he seems town to me.

[reinoe]

So I was going to do this for all players in one post but I'm going to do this on a one-post-per-player basis instead since it looks like Bulge is getting flashwagoned. Anyway...

Spoiler: ISO WICKEDESTjr

I don't like the snscompt bandwagon. I have a town read on him based on his reactions to the pressure. There was nothing suspicious about his reinoe vote and I can relate to his statement that he gets lynched often as town but doesn't as scum (if it's true). Given that I'm also someone that is frequently mislynched as town, I think his response to votes is similar and genuine. While I side with snscompt here, I will admit that his vote for reinoe was bad - if he self hammers why can't you see him self voting in RVS? People do it all the time and I would say self hammering is stranger than RVS self voting. The vote is bad, but snscompt isn't suspicious.

@reinoe- what is the likelihood of five scum piling on a bandwagon and hammering you? Have you ever seen that happen before? Wouldn't a flashwagon make it obvious who scum are? I can't change your vote and I'm certainly not going to discourage your discussion with him, but I think you ought to take a step back at some point because your suspicion of him has been tunnel-vision like and growing exponentially. You could be wrong as I'm sure you've been before.

More in a sec

Point 1...
..."There was nothing suspicious about his reinoe vote"...
..."While I side with snscompt here, I will admit that his vote for reinoe was bad - if he self hammers why can't you see him self voting in RVS?"...
..." The vote is bad, but snscompt isn't suspicious"...
Flip flop on sns more please. People get scumread for suspicious votes all the time.
Point 2...
..."Have you ever seen that happen before? Wouldn't a flashwagon make it obvious who scum are?"...
I'm always suspicious of players who have been here for years acting like they've never seen things that I've seen. Screams fake to me. Post 112 is terrible. The probability is unlikely but still possible. That was the point. And almost nobody does day one wagon analysis and even if they do it's not until day three or four anyway and there's no guarantee anyone will get it right. With two scum teams and five scum total, yeah the scum could hide out there easily on a day one flashwagon.

post 114...

Unvote. Vote: Bins

Her vote for snscompt is incredibly opportunistic.

First she says this;

Both of you aren't making sense much sense at all. Sns' vote 'cause selfvote was bad. Reinoe's vote in response to that was bad.
So if it's any consolation to you, I like reinoe's vote less.

-Somewhat a fence sit
-Calls reinoe's vote for snscompt bad
-Says reinoe's vote is worse than snscompt's vote

And then she says this;

don't tell me what to do, reinoe.

VOTE: sns

really? i was waiting for a better defence than that -- not "go meta me." that makes you look worse.
meh, i probably will but i don't have time right now. so take this vote because i expected more.

-by this point Not_Mafia had voted snscompt
-Bins now sides with reinoe
-her reasoning in this quote is bad and looks like an attempt at originality (what's wrong with asking to be meta'd?)

She seems to have changed her mind because of post 39. But post 39 shouldn't have caused her to change her mind. One bad post caused a radical change in her reads? Looks opportunistic.

Wicked has already admitted that sns' vote is bad. Could Bins be opportunistic? Maybe but she justifies said vote well. There were a number of posts between Bins' post 39 and Bins' 79 that could have changed her mind. Post 114 is a hard chainsaw defense for snscopter. If sns or wicked turn out to be scum then the other is the partner.

Next is post 123. Here's the relevant text...

He's attacking the messenger. You say that it's obvious if all five scum were to get on a bandwagon: no it's not. Furthermore it's very typical for all scum to be on a day 1 mislynch.

2. Can you give me an example of all scum being on a day 1 mislynch or of several scum quickly hopping on a bandwagon?
(tia).

Again, this is a pet peeve of mine: someone who's been here for years acting as if they've not seen things that I've seen over a period of just a few months.

Post 155 and 191 has wicked showing suspicion on ShadedMelee. The suspicion is legitimate though. ShadedMelee does have some explaining to do.

Read. If sns is scum wicked is scum and vice versa. Otherwise null.

[fuzzybutternut]

Wicked is probscum too, but Bulge is more scummy imo.
We can look at him tomorrow as well.

[reinoe]

Spoiler: maruchan

Actually I've got nothing. Maruchan had done dick-all this game but he's twice mentioned that he's having trouble getting into this game.

could be lurker-scum.