Mini 1604 -- Zodiac Mafia (Game Over)

[Nachomamma8]

Actually, I don't want to approach that comment in a questioning, wait for you to reach the answer I already have way. I want to point something out:

Opposite Alignment Empowered - If the player that receives this is town, the scumteam may choose one fortunate horoscope. If the player that receives this is scum, the scumteam may not kill anyone during the next night phase.

Scum have two horoscopes (dayvig in scumhands, this horoscope in townhands) that award them an extra kill. They have two tries at said extra kill per day. You think that RedCoyote gave scum some day redirector power role to deal with vig power in town hands... why?

[Nachomamma8]

give me a bit to decide between elyse and WP for now, since there seems to be something going on with WP

Vote: Witness Protection

Join me.

[StrangerCoug]

Scum in my experience tend to be more concerned about setup/role stuff on day 1.

This is an illegitimate argument since it is known there really is a dayvig somewhere among us. It's also a meta argument, which has a tendency not to work very well.

I'm not in favor of this as it can easily allow the Mafia to influence the shot. The dayvig has a brain. That player should be allowed to use it.

I want dayvig to claim intent to shoot before actually shooting, and I want them to shoot today. I want them to shoot today because mafia probably wants to hang onto the dayvig in order to wait for earlier LyLo or a suicide shot while going down, and both of those are less advantageous than forcing mafia to take a shot they will have to explain. I also see no advantage lost from giving whoever you're going to shoot a chance to claim/give final thoughts if town.

Welcome to my townlist. I can see this as a way to avoid losing someone to an inexperienced vig.

Scum have two horoscopes (dayvig in scumhands, this horoscope in townhands) that award them an extra kill. They have two tries at said extra kill per day. You think that RedCoyote gave scum some day redirector power role to deal with vig power in town hands... why?

Is this directed at Iecerint or me?

[Nachomamma8]

Is this directed at Iecerint or me?

Iecerint.

[PeregrineV]

Aquarians present themselves in one of two ways. One on hand, you’ll see someone who is shy, and quiet. On the other, an Aquarian can be boisterous, eccentric, and energetic. Both are deep thinkers with a love of helping others. Highly intellectual, this is a sign of fierce independence that prizes intuition tempered with logic. Both personality types have an uncanny ability to see both sides of an argument without prejudice, making them excellent problem-solvers. While very much attuned to the energies around them, Aquarians have a deep need to take time out alone and away to rejuvenate themselves. The keyword for this sign is imagination. The Aquarian can see a world of possibilities even when there appears to be none.

Aquarius' lucky numbers today: 38, 20, 16, 45, 3, 41

"Someone has to die in order that the rest of us should value life more." - Virginia Woolf

Oh yeah, that's me all right.

[PeregrineV]

Still, though, why do you think a dayvig would happen so fast on Day 1?

To avoid the second guessing and recriminations and arguing about how it should be used. It's not how I prefer to do it, but it happens.

[PeregrineV]

Actually, I don't want to approach that comment in a questioning, wait for you to reach the answer I already have way. I want to point something out:

Opposite Alignment Empowered - If the player that receives this is town, the scumteam may choose one fortunate horoscope. If the player that receives this is scum, the scumteam may not kill anyone during the next night phase.

Scum have two horoscopes (dayvig in scumhands, this horoscope in townhands) that award them an extra kill. They have two tries at said extra kill per day. You think that RedCoyote gave scum some day redirector power role to deal with vig power in town hands... why?

I thought I read but looks like I skimmed because I missed this.

[PeregrineV]

Actually, I don't want to approach that comment in a questioning, wait for you to reach the answer I already have way. I want to point something out:

Opposite Alignment Empowered - If the player that receives this is town, the scumteam may choose one fortunate horoscope. If the player that receives this is scum, the scumteam may not kill anyone during the next night phase.

Scum have two horoscopes (dayvig in scumhands, this horoscope in townhands) that award them an extra kill. They have two tries at said extra kill per day. You think that RedCoyote gave scum some day redirector power role to deal with vig power in town hands... why?

I thought I read but looks like I skimmed because I missed this.

OK, that was one of the unfortunate horoscopes. I kind of skimmed those because yeah.

And don't see the harm in it, but I got the Bad Fortune #9 mentioned for today. That's all it said, so I'm assuming nothing bad happens.

[Gemini Blind]

I must admit I missed the part where it said the fortunate horoscopes don't expire.

From my point of view, we are town, so if the mafia has it I want to know about it. If town has it, I don't really need to know about it, but it's not something I want to be worrying about on D3-D4 if the person who held it got killed N1 for instance.

~STD

[Dry-fit]

Scum in my experience tend to be more concerned about setup/role stuff on day 1.

This is an illegitimate argument since it is known there really is a dayvig somewhere among us. It's also a meta argument, which has a tendency not to work very well.

My point would be just as valid even if this was an open game. I'm not just talking about speculation but strategizing instead of scumhunting as well.

I think Salamence is the worst offender though. He hasn't really commented on anything but strategy to this point. Also don't like justifying himself by saying getting out of rvs is pro-town. Doesn't in any way mean it can't be scum motivated.

Unvote. Vote: Salamence20.

[RedCoyote]

@MOD:
Is the day kill made publicly in the thread?

Yes.

As the first sign of the zodiac, the presence of an Aries almost always indicates the beginning of something energetic and boisterous. Not much holds this sign back. They're eager, dynamic, quick, and competitive. When it comes to getting the ball rolling, an Aries is the best. Pioneering everything from work-related projects to parties with friends, these folks go for the gusto.

Aries' lucky numbers today: 35, 18, 10, 45, 7, 37

"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." - Leonardo da Vinci

---

Vote Count 1 - 2

• Witness Protection (3) ( PeregrineV - Iecerint - Nachomamma8)
  Salamence20 (3) ( StrangerCoug - burn_209 - Dry-fit)
  
  Xayzeck (2) ( Witness Protection - Elyse)
  PeregrineV (1) ( Gemini Blind)
  burn_209 (1) ( Salamence20)
  
  StrangerCoug (0) (

  Dry-fit

  )
  
  
  Gemini Blind (0) (

  Nachomamma8

  )
  
  
  Dry-fit (0) (

  burn_209

  )
  
  
  Iecerint (0) (

  Xayzeck

  )
  
  
  Not Voting (2) ( Juls - Xayzeck)

With twelve alive, it takes seven to lynch.
Current Deadline:

(expired on 2014-09-08 15:35:00)

[StrangerCoug]

My point would be just as valid even if this was an open game. I'm not just talking about speculation but strategizing instead of scumhunting as well.

Why would it be a scumtell to strategize? You expect the town to screw itself over? Is that what I'm supposed to be getting?

[Juls]

So, Juls, did you get a reaction you were looking for with that, or are you still looking?

It didn't go long enough; I don't think to get anything solid. But it was pretty obvious I was faking. So I'm not the dayvig which is super obvious now.

I think it was more like flirting.

You wish! :p

Anywho...I agree with Nachomamma. If the day vig does not occur today then we must assume scum owns it. In fact, I suggest we put someone at L-1 and then force everyone to do exactly what I did

Kill: Soinso

to flush it out before the end of the day. You don't have to be swayed by "town" but you gotta shoot. Agreed? Good.

Also, I am not liking Burn and stranger coug at the moment. I'm not crazy about SC's theories regarding the dayvig but that's not really why I am not liking him. It's more that I feel like he just said what "felt" townie but wasn't really townie. Burn agreeing throws me off though cause that seemed more scummy the actual theories that SC was suggesting. I doubt they are scum together.

Vote: Burn

[Iecerint]

since her having the daykill is just random and has no balance considerations, but scum need an excuse to use the daykill in a hard-to-scrutinize way

And shooting instantly is hard to scrutinize? Because I can think of a thousand things wrong with the shot if real and I'd be surprised if no one else could.

I literally explain that she is more likely to be scum if it is real later in this post.

The dayvig should probably claim responsibility for their dayvig after they use it rather than before just in case scum can interfere with it in some way.

What do you imagine scum can do to a dayvig?[/quote]
Maybe a dayblock? Maybe a daykill? Who the hell knows? Who cares?

The benefit of claiming after you use the dayvig is that it can't be tampered with. The disadvantage relative to claiming early is none unless there's something I'm not creative enough to imagine.

[Iecerint]

Quote tags messed up for the second one there.

[Iecerint]

Anywho...I agree with Nachomamma. If the day vig does not occur today then we must assume scum owns it. In fact, I suggest we put someone at L-1 and then force everyone to do exactly what I did

Kill: Soinso

to flush it out before the end of the day. You don't have to be swayed by "town" but you gotta shoot. Agreed? Good.

This is a good plan.

[Xayzeck]

give me a bit to decide between elyse and WP for now, since there seems to be something going on with WP

Vote: Witness Protection

Join me.

VOTE: WP

Your thoughts on Elyse?

[burn_209]

I must admit I missed the part where it said the fortunate horoscopes don't expire.

From my point of view, we are town, so if the mafia has it I want to know about it. If town has it, I don't really need to know about it, but it's not something I want to be worrying about on D3-D4 if the person who held it got killed N1 for instance.

~STD

Huh? What are you even trying to say?

Personally I think the people talking about and making scenarios about how to handle the vig slot are scummy. They are doing exactly what we alluded too earlier in the thread about scum trying to manipulate and control the vig slot. What Juls just did is a perfect example of that. I would rather the Vig use deductive reasoning and make an informed guess, then take up most of the day to get someone to L-1 and use the kill on the person about to be lynched. Once that happens we are going to have to rush to get everyone on the same page and to agree on someone to lynch. So now two scenarios happen. Either

A. We rush to come up with someone to lynch, in which rushing to lynch someone is never a good idea because its easy for mistakes to happen and for people to be manipulated.

or

B. We dont come to a consensus on who to lynch before the deadline, causing a no lynch, and have essentially wasted the Vig shot.

Juls plan is just too chaotic, rushed, and hectic for my liking. Literally nothing about it is pro-town. So trying to control the vig shot, which we just said scum would want to do, and her anti-town resolution to her scenario makes me

VOTE: Juls

inb4OMGUS

[Gemini Blind]

My post refers to someone holding onto it past D1 and dying before they use it, in which the town has no way of knowing what happened to it.

In the land of cupcakes and roses I'd be perfectly fine just having dayvig McGee shoot whoever they damn well please because in the land of cupcakes and roses, dayvig McGee is town.

In the land of Mafiascum.net, dayvig McGee might be scum and I'm going to do my damndest to wrestle that extra power out of scum's hands, especially since "potential manipulation by scum" is a small price to pay for "handing scum an extra kill no questions asked."

I'm way down for Juls's plan. You're completely misrepresenting what controlling the vig shot means.

VOTE: Burn

~STD

[Iecerint]

Yeah, Burn's post is pretty bad.

[burn_209]

I like to play the odds and bank on the idea that the 5/6 chance that the Vig is town happened instead of the 1/6 chance that the Vig is scum. That is along the lines that I am thinking. If I am misrepresenting what controlling what the vig slot means then please explain to me what controlling the vig slot means. Because going down the line and having everyone post

Kill X Player

sounds pretty controlling to me

[Juls]

They get to choose X player.

By making everyone shoot that means scum CAN'T save it. If they refuse to shoot (I'm looking at you burn_209) then they must be scum trying to save it for later in the game and they will be lynched day 2. If someone hammers prematurely, they will be lynched day two.

[Gemini Blind]

I have misread the post, please ignore the part where I said misrepresenting what controlling the vig shot means.

~STD

[burn_209]

In fact, I suggest we put someone at L-1 and then force everyone to do exactly what I did Kill: Soinso to flush it out before the end of the day.

How is that the vig getting to choose who player X is?

So this is what I am interpreting plan as. Once we get someone to L-1, we are all going to post Kill X Player, and the kill is going to go through. All just to get rid of the scum shot?

[Juls]

If it's town shooting we could hit scum too. People don't have to shoot the person being lynched.

Like nacho and std said, keeping it around past today puts us in a what if game and I don't want to play it.