Open 570: Making Friends and Enemies (Mafia Wins!)

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That's got nothing to do with what's going on and you know it.

I asked you why he was pinging. You said 'he annoyed me'. That was it.

I also asked you why you had done nothing to try and develop this read. You continued to dodge this question.

I fail to see where meta comes into this?

[Malakittens]

I didn't dodge the question though. I ANSWERED IT. I don't know how to hunt him because of my default mindset in playing with him as me being scum against him all the time. I already answered it. You thought it was dodge because you don't understand it or you disagree with it.

Meta comes into this from experience. When I played with him as a SK he didn't annoy me and he was town and that was right before Xmen. Xmen I can't remember if he annoyed me. I need to go look back, but I remember him pissing me off in Xeno. We were both scum.

So yes meta.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

So, you're just going to ignore MS all game because you don't know how to hunt him? You said he was pinging, something must have made this happen. 'He annoyed me' is simply an unacceptable answer.

Further to this, why have you not engaged him or put more effort into trying to learn how to read him?

You saw an opportunity for a wagon and gave yourself an excuse to jump on if it got started. It's as simple as that.

[Malakittens]

He was annoying me with all the mason and VT bullshit. I think I made myself clear on that one.

[Malakittens]

Also I'm watching his interactions with GM very closely, even if I don't interact with him I can probably get a read off how he interacts with others. He's not playing to the same style as he was in Knight. I'm trying to spot the meta similarities differences from past games.

Also if I wanted to jump on a wagon without being oppurnitistic I could, but I'm not seeing anyone super scummy as of yet~

[Scripten]

BBT:

I'm not sure if mala is the best lynch target for today. I've never played with her before, but this seems less like active lurking and more like gut play, IMO. You should come hop on one of the scummier wagons today. Those wagons are much more fun.

Do you feel that reading a player on how annoying they are is ineffective at figuring out alignment?

Mala:

What're your reads on NPAU and Peabody?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

BBT:

I'm not sure if mala is the best lynch target for today. I've never played with her before, but this seems less like active lurking and more like gut play, IMO. You should come hop on one of the scummier wagons today. Those wagons are much more fun.

Do you feel that reading a player on how annoying they are is ineffective at figuring out alignment?

I disagree.

Can you find anything noteworthy that Mala has contributed on D1? She has actively lurked throughout, and despite knowing full well what actively lurking means, attempts to point to her consistency in the times that she posts as some sort of defence.

I don't think she has taken a strong stance this entire game yet.

Couple this with our previous interaction and I think Mala is a great choice for a D1 lynch.

[Josh_B]

Sonic,
Can you move Shinobi down to maybe town. His inability to make a stance rings hallow to me. And you can put Scripten into the town pile?

[Malakittens]

Bbt why the hell are you doing the same attack you did in the newbie game. This isn't your first game with me. I rely on gut and meta for Day 1. This is the same bullshit attack you gave me on the newbie game and you were scum there. So either you are right now playing stupid scum game or you are playing a stupid town game. I can't tell which because it's not like it's just me and you in this game that played that, but also that Shin is here too.

I need to mull that over.

@Script:

I haven't played with NPAU so no read there yet. Peabody I remember him from a recent completed game. His play feels a bit different , but I want to give that time. It was mainly because he was just tunneling on one person that game whereas here he isn't doing exactly that.

[Scripten]

I disagree.

Can you find anything noteworthy that Mala has contributed on D1? She has actively lurked throughout, and despite knowing full well what actively lurking means, attempts to point to her consistency in the times that she posts as some sort of defence.

I don't think she has taken a strong stance this entire game yet.

Couple this with our previous interaction and I think Mala is a great choice for a D1 lynch.

I think we may have to just agree to disagree. Doing some reading back, I'm getting the hang of how Mala plays. Her contributions are fairly broad early on, but I don't see a problem with that at this point in the game.

Taking strong stances isn't really a town tell to me. Not doing so can be a scum tell later on, but on D1, I'm just not feeling it.

I'm definitely taking your exchange with her differently. I find her read on MS to be fine for right now and her explanation satisfies me.

FAKEEDIT: Mala's newest post covers what I am saying better than I think I am doing.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Bbt why the hell are you doing the same attack you did in the newbie game. This isn't your first game with me. I rely on gut and meta for Day 1. This is the same bullshit attack you gave me on the newbie game and you were scum there. So either you are right now playing stupid scum game or you are playing a stupid town game. I can't tell which because it's not like it's just me and you in this game that played that, but also that Shin is here too.

I need to mull that over.

You do that. Use your great scum-hunting tool that is meta to determine my alignment. I look forward to this.

I was waiting for you to pull out the 'But I'm really bad at D1 card'. Good job.

I'm definitely taking your exchange with her differently. I find her read on MS to be fine for right now and her explanation satisfies me.

Wow, really?

So, I ask 'What about MS was pinging for you?'. She replies 'He was annoying me with all the Mason & VT bullshit'.

Then, I ask 'Why have you done noting to develop this read, especially given you struggle to read this player'. She says 'I don't know how to'.

Seriously Scripten? Those answers satisfy you?

Like, she hasn't questioned MS or tried to engage with him at all. Even though she was scum-reading him. That makes sense to you?

[Scripten]

Wow, really?

So, I ask 'What about MS was pinging for you?'. She replies 'He was annoying me with all the Mason & VT bullshit'.

Then, I ask 'Why have you done noting to develop this read, especially given you struggle to read this player'. She says 'I don't know how to'.

Seriously Scripten? Those answers satisfy you?

Like, she hasn't questioned MS or tried to engage with him at all. Even though she was scum-reading him. That makes sense to you?

That's why I asked you if examining how annoying a player is could be used to scumhunt. From my POV, Mala's currently reading MS as scum based on his distracting gameplay style, which I can understand. During D1, gut reads aren't all bad.

Keep in mind that during our newbie game together, I used Thor665's frustration against him as scum. This is also where meta can be used as part of scumhunting. I wouldn't say it's an end-all-be-all tool, but discounting it entirely can be dangerous. In this case, in fact, I wouldn't even say that Mala's using meta all that prominently.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That's why I asked you if examining how annoying a player is could be used to scumhunt. From my POV, Mala's currently reading MS as scum based on his distracting gameplay style, which I can understand.

No, she isn't scum-reading him from his gameplay style because she doesn't know how to read him. She specifically stated one issue of MS' play (the Mason and VT issue). She said nothing about his play-style.

[Scripten]

That's why I asked you if examining how annoying a player is could be used to scumhunt. From my POV, Mala's currently reading MS as scum based on his distracting gameplay style, which I can understand.

No, she isn't scum-reading him from his gameplay style because she doesn't know how to read him. She specifically stated one issue of MS' play (the Mason and VT issue). She said nothing about his play-style.

I disagree with this, but I don't see this discussion going anywhere useful. Mala's play isn't the most logical, but I'm just not reading her as scum. Do you have any lesser scum reads?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, NPAU and possibly GM. The more I re-read the worse she looks.

But I'd rather lynch Mala.

[Peabody]

Hi, sorry. I'm a couple pages behind. Post soon.

Also, I like the reads list thing Zeb mentioned. It makes him feel a little more town.

Not entirely convinced yet.

[Peabody]

On an unrelated note, since my reads keep on changing (Josh is ovbiously scum! No, he's ovbviously town! SCUM TOWN SCUM TOWN SCUM TOWN SOUM TCWM) I was thinking of putting a reads list in my signature and changing it as te game progresses.

Yeah. I like this from Zeb.

NPAU: Come on back to the party. We miss you and you should come contribute more.

I kinda like this from Scripten.

On another note. I like zebulin's recent explanation. Can we vote Peabody now?

VOTE: peabody

Such is the bane of being an unreadable player. Although, I swear, this game I thought I've given enough opinion to be readable by now.

I wouldn't mind a Peabody lynch. He's a little scummy, but right now I'd like to see a good NPAU wagon.

H'okay.

Which lead me to believe a 'sheep me-BBT' is not entirely truthful in his convictions.

He never is. Lucky for you that you are finding this out now as opposed to later. I think I speak for all of us that know BBT, your case is weak. Is there anything else that you want to add?

This interests me.

Is this typical of BBT to fake convictions? To you who know him, my case may be weak if this is something typical of him. If on just a general player, I think faking a conviction is a scum-tell. I'm at the point where I don't know whether to continue pushing this or to focus attention elsewhere. He's been seeming more towny lately. I know an aggressive stance early game is something I've done as scum at least once. So from personal experience, I'm inclined to believe his early play is scum generated. His later play is much better.


I have a -slight- town ping on Mala.

[Scripten]

Is this typical of BBT to fake convictions? To you who know him, my case may be weak if this is something typical of him. If on just a general player, I think faking a conviction is a scum-tell. I'm at the point where I don't know whether to continue pushing this or to focus attention elsewhere. He's been seeming more towny lately. I know an aggressive stance early game is something I've done as scum at least once. So from personal experience, I'm inclined to believe his early play is scum generated. His later play is much better.

BBT takes this stance whether or not he's scum. I'm pretty sure he does it to try and intentionally affect his meta, but it may just be a playstyle choice. Either way, it is unfortunately a rather confusing playstyle. I've not seen him policy/mislynched for it in any game I've played so far, though.

[Peabody]

Hm.

It's not my goal to policy lynch. A policy isn't my case.

And my case isn't that he's taking a stance. It's that he's taking a fake stance.

[Peabody]

Is that typical of him to be over-the-top convicted of a read? Because I don't get the vibe that he believes in his own reads.

That's why he pings me as scum.

Scripten, my 'H'okay' comment is in reference to how you vocalized support behind a wagon of someone without having any stated reason. The fact that you'd be 'good' with it doesn't ping well with me if you have stated no prior suspicion on my slot.

You saying there is something scummy about my play is more interesting to me than Josh_B's vote on me who said no such thing if I remember correctly. Can you expound on your statement? Help me out.

[Peabody]

On second thought, I'm not that bothered by it anymore. Probably not alignment indicative at this point unless the wagon happened and he placed a vote with no reason.

[Scripten]

Hm.

It's not my goal to policy lynch. A policy isn't my case.

And my case isn't that he's taking a stance. It's that he's taking a fake stance.

Don't worry. I was talking in general terms, not about you specifically.

Is that typical of him to be over-the-top convicted of a read? Because I don't get the vibe that he believes in his own reads.

Yes. Okay, you have a point. That said, I don't think it's alignment indicative.

PEDIT: Alright, looks like we're on the same page now. Any new scumspects?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Mala?

[Peabody]

I need to have another look through and see if anything catches my eye. I'm town reading people easier than I'm scum reading them.

[Metal Sonic]

Annoying you makes him scum?

For him it might. When I was scum partners with him he walked the thin line of my patience. I ended up blowing up his hydra partner in thread with my engaging which then got me frustrated. So yes him being annoying could potentially be a scum tell for him. I don't know for sure.

When was this?