Mini 1626: Duck Tales Mafia (Game Over)

[Pine]

Vote: Mastin

[Pine]

Yes, well, it's coincidental, because his target is me. Trust me. Pine and I go way back.

Don't even know you, Total Wreck. Assuming hydra or alt though

Mastin is the only reason I replaced into this game. Know why she's called Mastin2, and not just Mastin? This guy, that's why

[Pine]

Mmkay, who's Total Wreck? Now I gots ta know. Sensible people who like me are always needed

[Pine]

Cool. House and Titus are both fun to play with

Arright, between TW, Mastina, Farside and I, this game should go smoothly

PE: He means House (MD) is a doctor

[Pine]

They. It was the male side of the hydra talking. It's not WIFOM, it's out of game discussion. Ignore it and move along

[Pine]

I do like how eagerly DOMO jumped on you though. I could practically hear him rubbing his hands together and saying "Und doktor? Reeeeeeeeaally...."

Out of my personal RVS!

]Unvote
Vote: DOMO

PE: Your trust not required

[Pine]

...umm, exactly

[Pine]

I love it when you put me in my own "Pine" category. The fact that, years later, you've still got no read on me...delicious

[Pine]

Farside, my reads are pretty weak right now. I don't really like the cheap shots and shitty reasoning coming from DOMO or KCC, but that amounts to a weak gut scum sense. Everyone else is pretty null. Sometimes you get strong reads out of the gate, other times you've gotta dick around a bit. It's one of those

[Pine]

Push on Bulba feels off. I don't see much scumminess from Bulba, much less what Hydreigon is showing

[Pine]

White knighting. It confused me too, but I figured it out using context

[Pine]

The probably sinister meaning is to draw heat off of you, actually

[Pine]

Holy shit do you people ever stop talking? Two, three pages of useless drivel

I'm trying to sort out the wagons and counterwagons. V/LA for the Thanksgiving holiday and Black Friday. I'll check in but will not be highly present

[Pine]

What about it? The part where I get annoyed at you and DOMO having no respect for people with limited time frames, or the part where I remind people that the topic with the most real substance in the last 18 pages is who got counterwagoned by whom, and the issue of why? Because that's a lot more important and relevant than wasting my time reading several pages of you two (four) pissing back and forth with no progress

PE: I didn't say that, actually. Though I think your fluffy hydra nonsense is annoying, I see no ulterior motive to it. It's merely bad manners

[Pine]

Actually, I've been neglecting this game. It hasn't really gotten interesting yet

The two plus pages of back and forth with DOMO are indeed pretty worthless. Didn't your mothers ever tell you that when you didn't have anything good to say, say nothing?

This is a game wherein the top three posters each have almost two thirds as many posts as EVERYONE ELSE...combined

Shut the hell up and let other people do their thing. I'm working almost 80 hours this week on top of trying to spend Thanksgiving with my family. It's incredibly anti-Town of you to think that your opinions are the only ones that matter to the point where it's impossible for someone like me to catch up reasonably. I'm still trying to sort through the wagon/counterwagon mess that started with the run-up of Kitty. I can't do that because people like you are clogging the thread with inane shite. Stop the one-line posts, talk to your hydra mates, and look up the words "concise" and "organized"

[Pine]

^These two posts, for example. They were your FIFTH and SIXTH responses to 428, adding nothing you hadn't already said, and completely ignored the fact that you got a pre-edit warning on it, which replied to your concerns

Stop spamgarbage posting

PE: By all means, be active. I'm not complaining about that. I'm saying the quality of your posts and the quantity you make are incredibly annoying

[Pine]

Wow, talking to a wall. You insist that your pissing match with DOMO contains relevant information, but that analyzing the way people are moving votes around does not. And you "explain my motivation" by calling me scum for asking you to stop posting garbage.

Educational

Will not be responding to this moronic conversation any more (partly because it's 4AM and I have to drive across the state in three hours), will post (probably on Friday) an analysis of who moved their votes where on the wagon/counter wagon exchange, and what I think it means.

[Pine]

Unvote
Vote: Shiny Hydreigon

This is nothing more and nothing less than a policy vote. Players who bully and blackmail and spam have no place in a civilized game. They're either scum running amok or Town being counterproductive. As the first lynch is usually a shot in the dark anyway, I want to excise this tumor before it metastasizes

[Pine]

The blackmail is emotional blackmail. "Agree with me or you're scum"

[Pine]

Mastin, policy Hydreigon with me

[Pine]

Lolwut

"I can never read this guy" isn't a policy reason. "Contributes negative productivity" is

[Pine]

I'll produce plenty after the holiday

[Pine]

^This. Hydreigon is being so grossly counterproductive, they're either aggro scum or Town we need to ditch. Either way, the sooner the better. D1 is usually a shot in the dark, so it might as well be cutting out dead weight

I'm clear of my holiday V/LA. I'll have that analysis tomorrow

[Pine]

Too drunk right now

Don't work retail on Black Friday. Bad ideas

[Pine]

I feel no pressure, SH. If you think spamming the thread with OMGUS and inane bullshit is going to change the fact that this week I'm working 90 hours on top of the holiday, you're crazy

[Pine]

Lol

He didn't dodge he question, you deranged fuck

Seriously, no

Also thoroughly disgusted with the constant and unrestrained OMGUS. The fastest way to end up on SH's ever-expanding scumlist is to suggest that they're suspicious, followed closely by merely disagreeing with Wisdom. A close third goes to simply posting in the thread without paying homage

You know you don't have to roleplay a hydreigon by attacking everything, right?

[Pine]

Pasche posted twice since you called him "dunno", 525 and 565.

I'm waiting to hear what in his posts made you so sure he is scum.

R~

I have a job. I'm not able to sit here and cogitate on this game day in and day out.

It's not unusual for me to go from not having an opinion to having one later on, because this shit is not my entire life.

Sorry for blowing your implication out of the water though, scum.

Quoted

This is not an unreasonable switch when you've shat out pages about the topic. What new would you like?

[Pine]

@doubleslap no

[Pine]

You have decided I am a tunneling townie who is wrong

Mostly, I've decided that you're a bit of a hypocrite.

Expain.

Your

. Pasch. Read.

you know what, no. vote me if you think im a hypocrite.

R~

You are a hypocrite, and I'm already voting for you

My vote is no longer mostly policy. I am growing pretty confident that SH is scum trying to control the game

Just out of amusement, here is the closest I can come to SH's current scum list:
Pine
Pasch
Total Wreck
Kitty
Bulbazak
Mastin (I think)

SH's not scum list
Romi
DOMO (I think)

The above constructed mostly from memory, because I am not masochistic enough to do an exhaustive ISO of 217 posts of bullshit

[Pine]

No

No no

You don't get to make a rational appeal at this point, SH. You've been making voluminous, inane, insulting, rambling, and reactive attacks on everything that moves for far too long. You've lost all right to say "just let me make my point". I don't hate you, I'm not that childish.mi think you're straight up scum, but I won't weep should you flip Town. You've made every effort to make this game entirely about you and your opinions, and in the process stifled any attempt at opposing thought

So no, you don't get to make an appeal like that. My vote is staying, and if you survive the day, it will go right back on. Only a cop guilty or similar will be dissuading me. Some people in this read have been unproductive, but you are a force that is counterproductive

Shut

Up

[Pine]

You aren't even remotely obvTown. Argument through repetition is one of the oldest scum tactics, and you've used it with wild abandon

Shut up

[Pine]

I see no blackmail, anywhere.

yes, wisdom posts alot and is aggressive, sometimes needlessly, but it doesn't mean it's spam or bullying. There is content in each post

~L

By the way, if you want to see blackmail, look at post 794. "Get on my side or die" is the definition of bullying and coercing people into your way.

Town

Does

Not

Do

That

[Pine]

Aronis why are you always so scummy :/

R~

Oh, also, I found this while looking for that quote

Add Aronis to the scum list from Hydreigon. Pretty sure the scum outnumber Town at this point, amirite? Endgame time!

[Pine]

No. I've seen your ways. You react to anyone disagreeing with you by calling them scum, ignore the people that are actually lurking, and bully others into my way or the highway

Fuck off

[Pine]

I see no blackmail, anywhere.

yes, wisdom posts alot and is aggressive, sometimes needlessly, but it doesn't mean it's spam or bullying. There is content in each post

~L

By the way, if you want to see blackmail, look at post 794. "Get on my side or die" is the definition of bullying and coercing people into your way.

Town

Does

Not

Do

That

well, you should understand that when you oppose me when ive caught two scum, my immediate thought is that you might be the third scum. you can always prove me wrong by stopping acting on your dislike of my playstyle and actually looking at the game.

R~

You've caught no scum. You have SUSPECTS. You don't get hard credit for that when you've named half the player list as scum

pine if you want my reads you can ask me, you know

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

How about that pasch read I've been asking for?

This, hypocrite

[Pine]

^Yarr

[Pine]

Hahahahahahahahahaha

Oh irony

[Pine]

[Pine]

[Pine]

why cant i have a fucking dayvig

R~

Scum dayvigs tend to be overpowered, fyi.

I lol'd at 1 AM in a crowded bunk room. A paramedic threw a boot at me. Thanks

[Pine]

Hmm

And how would you know that the people you're WKing are Townies if not in the informed minority

In sarcasm, there is truth. That might've been a true blue scumslip

Ugh, I said I wouldn't move off of Shiny, but they've shut up, and I want to pursue this

Unvote
Vote: KCC

[Pine]

Ugh

Yeah, I misread that. 3:30 AM is not good on my brain. Withdrawn

Unvote
Vote: Shiny Hydra

[Pine]

I can because I scumhunt through interactions. People think they are noise. They are not for me. House gave up at some point and started dodging the points and twisting the facts. But that's only visible to me because I am the only one who kept up with that in real time. Everyone else of you is reading the whole of it (and most are just skimming through it), and you don't pay attention to such details.

It was the same with BROseidon, and it was the same in one million other games.

R~

Oh really?

You scumhunt through interactions, but sorting through wagons and counter wagons is wasting my time?

Cognitive dissonance that extreme is super scummy

(So is me not following through with that promised analysis yet, but I can fix that)

PE: Shut up, TW. You're not getting lynched, and every time you say dumbass shit like that, it looks more and more like AtE

[Pine]

Which I said about SH, and you agreed with

Not a fan of the hypocrisy

[Pine]

I said that SH was either scum or counterproductive Town, and you endorsed that. Now DOMO's saying the same about you, and you're calling it scum posting

You can't have it both ways. I happen to agree, somewhat, with DOMO. There's zero legitimate pro-Town reason for Town to be even giving assent to their own lynch. Therefore, you're either scum making an AtE or Town acting stupid. I disagree that you're as much of a liability as the Wisdom head of SH, but you're rapidly killing my Townread of you

[Pine]

Self voting is completely unacceptable.

VOTE: Total Wreck

^Opportunistic

I haven't really been buying the Pasch wagon, but that's a big point in its favor

[Pine]

It ought to

[Pine]

Like I said, SH is scum or a liability. My opinion has moved from the latter to the former

[Pine]

so how this game will go now is that the scum will use the fact certain townies have disliked my playstyle and try to reduce my cred. Kitty is doing that by the textbook definition.
Pine could be the third scum also doing that, but my gut tells me he's just typical stupid town who can't understand my ways. We'll see.

You've got it backwards, Wis.

Pine is not.
I repeat, NOT.

An idiot.

He specializes in making people

think

he is. (Heck, that's one of the bloody reasons I had so much trouble reading him in the past, is that I assumed he was stupid when he was actually scum.)

He pretty heavily is misrepping your reads.

Again. Think CoC. Think me IN CoC.

What? I never do that on purpose. I don't specialize in making people think I'm an idiot, I have a tendency towards tunneling and confirmation bias, with a specialization in covering my tracks and improvising.

Take our very first game together, where you lost your name bet. Those early obvscum mistakes and fuckups, then the emotional breakdown and request to reset? That was all for 100% real. It was my first non-Newbie game in internet Mafia, and it plays a LOT different from the live game I'd been used to. I made serious screwups, got desperate, and made a huge AtE...which worked. From that point on, I learned as I went and improvised.

I do NOT, however, intentionally play dumb. It's just not my style

Maybe that's why you've never been able to read me. Bad assumptions

Also, I'm not misrepping anything. I'm quite sincere in my disdain for SH and desire to lynch it. It's either scum or a liability

Well, pine is town for believing he caught an actual slip. That's one less to read.

ffs, PINE.
IS NOT.
AN IDIOT.

He'd post that same dang thing as scum, just as likely if not moreso than as town. Stop treating derphood as a towntell from him.

I'll take this for the compliment it is though. This time it was a genuine mistake, but I've absolutely done that sort of thing as scum

I feel like you're mad at Pine for something totally unrelated to this game. Like calm down.

She's not mad, just frustrated that for three years she has like a 90% wrong read on me

Regarding self-voting, that was a ridiculous game, and I still disagree with your methodology. I'll grant that it was a successful exception to the rule, but that was heavily based on circumstance and who we were playing with. Those circumstances are very rare, do not exist here, and TW is not making the kind of arguments that you did to make such a gambit worthy

[Pine]

Mastin, why is Hydreigon a strong Townread? I'm seeing the opposite. Convince me

[Pine]

Mastin, why is Hydreigon a strong Townread? I'm seeing the opposite. Convince me

Pine, buddy, if you're town, and I do mean this friend to friend,
...Fuck off.

They're town because EVERYTHING about them is town, period. Let's say it wasn't. It'd be null, then, because what they've done is certainly not exclusive to their scumgame. Oh, but what about how anti-town they've been?

Refer to above message.
Don't give a damn how anti-town (or in this case, "anti-town", because I can and HAVE been in Wisdom's place before) their playstyle is, a town player is still a town player.

This doesn't actually make any sense, you know

Here's how I see it - SH spent a couple of dozen pages suspecting anything that moved, changing its mind with little justification, exhibiting cognitive dissonance, stifling and bullying contrary opinions, and going ballistic on anyone who suspected them. That's not pro-Town at all. Post 1002 is a good example of how it's still going on

Has anyone actually ever seen a dayvig on d1 that wasn't a gambit?

Yes. Just saw it in Micro 408. It was Town on Town and was super counterproductive

Marquis's assessment is accurate. I try to stay away from Large games (except as a late game replacement) because they're too chaotic and fast. I just don't have time in my day to keep up with them. I produce my best work in slower games, where I can do some actual analysis instead of wasting my time skimming four or five pages and trying to respond to the 10% that's worth reading

The holiday weekend is over. Expect that wagon analysis within the evening

PE: Agree. The scumslip thing is probably a red herring

[Pine]

Prodded

I have two full days off from both jobs. I'll be rereading the whole thread and doing some work

/inb4 SH's post about this

[Pine]

Prod dodge. Been sick

[Pine]

Because I don't suck at this game. My near-total absence and lack of contribution is a sign of being busy, you knob. House wants actual input of the caliber I'm capable of before he makes a decision

He's actually said this several times, but because it didn't come out of your gibbering hole, you didn't pay attention

[Pine]

Hmph. Nonsense. Your case amounts to "He doesn't like me waaaaaah"

[Pine]

And because I half expect this town to just go with that:

No, my case is that you have not posted a single piece of content in 3 weeks, while dodging with excuses and trying to seem like you are doing things, which not only are useless to do in D1 (wagon analyzing without flips), but even that, you never did. And then you never found time to give some reads, but plenty to whine about my playstyle and try to get me lynched on policy, completely ignoring me when I explained my motivations, never trying to actually work with me, and actively trying to make others dislike me. All of these hold scum motivation.

R~

Only half of this is accurate.

The rest is your personality being shitty towards others.


@pine: hi pine. How are you.
Could you please explain your scum reads. There is more then just shiny in this game and I know you are better then this.

Sorry, Farside. I'm so far behind that the only thing that I can really do is a full reread. With this thread growing almost as fast as I can keep up, I'm kind of procrastinating for N1 quiet time. I often do my best work during night phases

Right now I'm mostly just trolling Shiny. They tweak hilariously

[Pine]

The only reads I feel confident in even mentioning right now are TW/House as Town and Mastin as Town. From what I can tell this is solidly their Town game

My gut lately says I was wrong about SH, but my contempt and antipathy towards their spamming, illogical reads, and bullying is so great that I don't feel like moving my vote without a solid scumread

[Pine]

I don't like either of the main wagons. Mastin is playing to her Town game, and there isn't a legitimate case against Not Mafia

I don't really like how you're trying to limit discussion to those two wagons though

[Pine]

Okay, bitches, listen up

I'm finally not annoyed with this game (So continue shutting the fuck up, SH)

I've been stuck in the passenger seat of an ambulance all day watching several inches an hour come down, and we haven't stumbled into any of the crazy calls yet today. So I've been reading ISOs. Most of them are boring and don't say much interesting.

Farside is a bit all over the map, but there's a logical progression to her reads and she looks like she's thinking. I'd call that Town, but she's also one of the most impressive scum players I've had the pleasure of working with. She's null-Town, but only just.

Aronis is clearly confused and frustrated, and has been having a hard time gaining momentum. The constant assault by annoying players probably fueled the replace out

Double slap seems like scum to me. I just played a game with Marquis where his Towngame was big and flamboyant, with gambits and bold plays. Here, I'm seeing a lot of hedging and subtle moves. He's trying to be sneaky and casual, and is slipping under the radar quite well. His reads are also poorly explained and look manufactured. There's also some cognitive dissonance - for example, he votes Mastin, then not long after goes in another direction and claims he never scum read Mastin. What? No. Scum.

Bulbazak generally looks Townish, with some logical progression and sensible sequencing of reads. At no point have I ever understood the case on Bulba, and haven't seen a good explanation of it. Leaning town

Paschendale is all over the map. At times, he looks reasonable and like he's thinking his way through things, at other times it looks like he's sabotaging what little productivity the game has managed outside of the SH-TW-Mastin machine. This most recent thing I called him on, for example. Limiting us to two wagons just doesn't seem Town motivated. It forces me to wonder whether they're both Town, and Pasche is going for a win-win false dichotomy. Leaning scum

DOMO, however, is the the star scumbag.

Go ahead and ISO him, I'll wait.

No, seriously

...

...

...

Done? No? Go do it. It's full of shitty flips, unexplained reasoning, and sleazy voting. Most of all, however, it is characterized by

opportunism

. I can't emphasize enough how scummy that is. He jumps onto any wagon that's moving, because he doesn't care who it is that gets sent up. The only exception, however, is Paschendale. He only goes onto the easiest wagon of the day once, and then he immediately advocates its counter wagon. There's a good period when he's actually talking up a Wreck wagon with his vote on Pasche. Then the smoke clears, he feels he can move his vote without being too obvious, and jumps onto one of the Towniest players in the game

Unvote
Vote DOMO

I would also be happy to wagon Doubleslap or Paschendale. I think that's everyone except the oft-replaced GIF slot. I'll ISO that later

[Pine]

I thought that hydra was already in the game?

[Pine]

Why don't you tell me why you're Town, instead

[Pine]

So in other words, you disagree with one Townread and one scumread

Mastin, pull your head out of your ass. I'm finally engaging, and you aren't engaging back

PE: First of all, you can't be opportunistic when there's no opportunity. There were zero votes on DOMO at the time. Second, buzzwords are only bad when they're used by themselves and not explained. I devoted an entire paragraph to that. DOMO is pretty clearly deflecting back here - every time he's attacked me, it has been after I levied suspicion against him, and then he conveniently forgets about me until next time it comes up. That's not Town chasing down a belief, that's scum discrediting a detractor

[Pine]

Excluding me from the dead PT was probably a good idea. I'm pretty ragey about this game

[Pine]

Okay, I let others have their say first

I'm ragey because I feel that the case against me was utter and complete bullshit

I did

nothing

that I wouldn't have done as Town. Nothing. The case on me was built on personal antagonism and aggressive argument from repetition. I felt personally singled out for non-game-related things, and did not appreciate it.

I'd like to clarify again that pretty much everything I did was completely unassociated with being scum. I was genuinely hard up for time, lurking not on purpose, thought SH was trying to control discussion and stifle dissent, and that the case against me was bullshit

Then I do go active, put up some reads, and get quicklynched. You were right for all of the wrong reasons

The egos in this game were outrageous.

Unbookmarking, because I'm more likely to have an aneurysm if I argue this more

[Pine]

Sometimes I get lucky.

I couldn't agree more