Mini 1646: Quil's Smalltown (Game over!)

[Aronis]

Never in a million years would I have expected to go second after picking 222.

Roleblocker, please.

[Aronis]

Never in a million years would I have expected to go second after picking 222.

Roleblocker, please.

Sorry, but can I have Ascetic instead?

[Aronis]

VOTE: Marquis

[Aronis]

I'm gone until monday.

But based solely off of role selection?

VOTE: farside

What up now?

You're saying farside is scum based on role selection? Wtf would scum want that role? It is of no use to them.

[Aronis]

Aronis, why did you pick ascetic?

Grib, why does shii's wish to lynch you mean shii hates you? We lynch with love in this town!

Why are people even voting for Marquis? This is actually a serious question because if you're gossiping together with some dirty scummy secrets about him I'm very much out of the loop and want to be evangelized.

The contenders are....

Aronis...

Grib...

xRECKONERx... (I don't know, I had to pick a third ok?)

Who is the kind of scummiest but not really of them all?

It is...

VOTE: Aronis

I picked Ascetic, because it is arguably the most powerful role if placed in the hands of the Mafia. So I felt like we needed to keep it away from them.

[Aronis]

You're saying farside is scum based on role selection? Wtf would scum want that role? It is of no use to them.

You know there's an SK, right?

Why did you pick Roleblocker and then switch to Ascetic? Walk me through your thought process, please.

So roleblocker is probably my favorite 'normal' mafia role. And basically my idea was to pick a powerful role and keep it out of scum hands, at first I thought roleblocker, but after thinking about it, if the cop gets blocked we'll know who's responsible, so it isn't as powerful due to it being public. Ascetic, on the other hand, is extremely helpful, because they become immune to everything, except the sk kill and getting lynched.

[Aronis]

ascetic after roleblocker and for

those

reasons after voting me?

lmfao VOTE: aronis

Is that vote srs? If so, why?

[Aronis]

Here is a list of the chosen roles in order. I was reminding myself about what Invictus and Insomniac do, so I went ahead and put it in order of choosing:

Marquis, the Encryptor
Aronis, the Ascetic
DeasVail, the Bulletproof
xRECKONERx, the One-Shot Cop
Pine, the Gentleman Thief
Bookitty, the Archivist
farside22, the Invictus
Jake from State Farm, the Roleblocker
Shiidaji, the Bodyguard
Grib, the Insomniac
Jingle, the Coroner
Antihero, the Universal Backup
Flubbernugget, the Vengeful Vanilliser

I don't think people at the bottom of this list can really be judged based solely on the role they chose. Just my opinion, though.

@Aronis: Why do you think an ascetic is especially powerful in scum hands and should be kept out of them? I have a few ideas on this and want to understand your thought process when switching from roleblocker to ascetic. The reasons you gave seem odd to me.

Ascetic is immune to everything except kills. Scum and SK are the only people with kills, town has none. So if they get ascetic, they have a player immune to every town action.

[Aronis]

i was scum in reck's last mini with aronis as a partner

them voting me is surprising and... surprising

Can you answer my question plz?

[Aronis]

UNVOTE:

Now can you please come up with a good reason?

[Aronis]

Sorry, somehow I transposed two sentences at the end. Let me fix that:

@Aronis:

A hidden ascetic would indeed be a powerful role for scum. I really don't see it that way in a game where all roles are known to everyone, though. Ascetics are no more immune to lynch than anyone else, and in a game with groupscum and SK, I don't see an open ascetic role as something to be kept from scum.

In at least one game I have been in (I think there were more, but this one was more recent) the claimed ascetic was lynched almost right away. I don't think that applies exactly here, since we KNOW you're an ascetic. Still, you're gaining all the benefits you ascribe to scum in that you can't be targeted for anything and your alignment can't be determined. You should realise that makes you a likely target for lynching just because we can't know if you're scum or town.

Roleblocker is a role I think scum would want to avoid in this game, though. Roleblocks that don't correspond with town interests (for instance, roleblocks on investigative roles) would be pretty obvious and would lead to suspicion and possible lynch. Because all the roles are out in the open, it's going to be much harder for scum to hide and still play effectively to their win condition. However, for town these difficulties don't exist.

Do you feel pretty confident in your ability to play power roles well, Aronis?

Just depends.

[Aronis]

VOTE: aronis

wait fuck no i meant to sheep him not vote him

VOTE: aronis

[Aronis]

Yeah, sorry about that. I forgot you were incapable of coming up with your own reasons.

[Aronis]

@Jingle: I had forgotten about the SK.

[Aronis]

Can you please elaborate on how I was antagonistic when responding to your questions? And where I held back information?

[Aronis]

I don't think you've been antagonistic to me. Post 124 is pretty antagonistic, and your tone with Marquis wasn't making me think of puppies and kittens either.

You've consistently given short answers and minimal information. The most recent example is when I asked you about your confidence in playing power roles. "Just depends." That's the attitude I mean, most specifically -- the shortest answer that gives the least information. I was trying to figure out your alignment, but your ISO is giving ZERO help in that.

Every reason you give for wanting to keep ascetic out of scum hands is a reason scum might want it. Choosing ascetic in the first place gives your slot an expiration date. I wouldn't think you'd be surprised that people want to lynch you since they can't investigate you. You're giving them nothing to read you with either.

Those votes had no reasoning behind them and were very opportunistic.

Then I will elaborate. I don't mind having a power role, I just don't always know what the optimal use for it is. My preference would probably just be VT, but it just depends on what type of role it is.

[Aronis]

I've thought about it some more and roleblocker actually kind of sucks for scum, because you don't have the freedom that would come with being an anonymous roleblocker. So, Aronis could very well have realised that while roleblocker is normally a lovely scum role, it's not here, which could have prompted the change in decision. I don't think this is a reason to think he's scum so much as a reason not to townread him for changing his role, and I'm actually a lot less passionate about Aronis being scum right now than one might expect, but I'm cool with the wagon as it is right now and I'm eager to hear more from Aronis.

Isn't that the same way with about every role though? You'll have to claim night actions, so you can't use it freely.

[Aronis]

i think the farside wagon is well-intentioned (from boo) but inaccurate

Talk to me about this, please.

farside's persistent defense of aronis while being a bit stubborn in the face of her points being picked apart leads me to think one of her/aronis is town, and atm i'm leaning her.

it is a bit weird for me to see. typically with farside town this is the level of engagement i'm used to though so yeah again, leaning town

Maybe. I don't get the one of these two is town; could both be town in your opinion?

I truly dislike Aronis stepping back and letting farside take the heat for this, though. I wouldn't do that as town; I don't know if he would or not.

Really? My last post was 11 hours ago. I haven't been neglecting the game or anything. Secondly, farside doesn't have to defend me at all. Thirdly, you're who's giving her all the heat. And what do you want me to say? Obviously whatever I say will be wrong according to you and it's not like you're asking me a bunch of questions that I'm ignoring, your posts are directed at farside, not me. Fuck off.

VOTE: bookitty

[Aronis]

^ ^ Finally, that is a farside I think I know.

UNVOTE:

@Farside: If I had taken ascetic, I would expect to have an expiration date. If you wouldn't, you need to tell me so, please.

If I had taken ascetic, I would be going out of my way to be valuable to town to prolong my life as long as possible. I have literally no other value in this game; I am only a liability in terms of my role. I would do my best to provide value even if I was only here for one day.

Think about the role ascetic. Now think about how Aronis is playing. He's horribly not helpful to town, to the extent that when I tried to think of why town-Aronis would panic and switch his role and then asked him about it, he said "Just depends." He's providing negative value to town in terms of his role regardless of his alignment and then he's acting like he's doing us a favour by providing any information or insights. That's two reasons, not one.

What good is he, Farside? If he can't be read, can't be investigated and plays like this and can't change and grow and improve, why would we keep him around over literally anyone else? These are serious questions for you.

So to make sure I understand what you're saying, I am scum because I got stuck with the 2nd pick and made a bad choice and I answered one question with an insufficient answer[even though I tried to go back and fix it], correct?

[Aronis]

@Aronis:

I find it funny that you feel like you "got stuck with the 2nd pick" like it was horrible for you to have so many choices to pick from.

Basically, I see two ways to look at picking your role here if you're town. You either pick a role you think will be helpful for town or you pick a role to keep it away from scum.

Roleblocker would be awesomely helpful for town. Roleblocking people who are suspected of being scum, especially later on in the game, can stop nightkills and save lives. You said you like roleblocker, so picking that as town would make a lot of sense to me.

Ascetic is fuck-all use to town. It puts a giant target on the person who picks it unless they make themselves obvtown. Even then, they are much more likely to be lynched because there is no other way to determine their alignment and because they provide no positive utility for town. It's actually something i would have preferred to see in scum hands and that I expected to be one of the last things picked. Instead, it was the second role picked.

By picking Ascetic as either alignment, you took on an added responsibility for your team. As town, an Ascetic must work hard to provide as much information as possible before he or she is lynched. That lynch is nearly inevitable in my experience. As scum, Ascetics must also act as town as possible to stave off their lynch and make up for their lack of usefulness to the town.

Like a vanilla townie, you have your vote and your voice. Also like a vanilla townie, you're going to be considered the most expendable member of either team. If you didn't know this when you made your choice of role, you surely must have noticed it by now. You're likely to be voted out before any power role unless there's a clear certainty that that power role is scum or you can prove your value and worth to town in other ways. Your lynch is far from a foregone conclusion unless you make it that way by serving up nothing but antagonism and answers that feel like they're being dragged out of you.

No, Farside didn't have to defend you. I'm not sure why she did. You certainly didn't provide her with much to work with and I sort of think it's some kind of misplaced empathy for someone she has seen mislynched repeatedly. (I could be wrong here.) But I would expect at least some degree of support for her or appreciation for her efforts, which were much more effective than your own quite honestly. Neither of these were evident in your responses; instead you provided more antagonism and no real content yet again. I don't even know what you think Farside's alignment is; that's how little I have to read you on.

I get that you're frustrated about the situation. I think you should have expected it, myself, but if you didn't then it's got to be pretty horrid. I'm still telling my mom you said fuck off, though.

In other news, Antihero needs to weigh in soon because his future is directly related to whomever is voted off today. I would expect him to be more interested for that reason alone.

I understand that you think I made a bad choice so would you shut the hell up about it already? I get your fucking point. If you want to lynch me, then lynch me goddammit. But I don't need to be repeatedly lectured about my 'mistake'. You have been of zero use to this town, because you repeatedly attempt to condemn me by saying the same thing over and over and over. You have no backing to your claim other than that and if it hasn't worked yet, it won't work. You can lecture me all you want about not being useful, but you haven't done a damn thing either. So maybe once uou start doing something and quit pestering me about this useless shit, I'll listen to you. Until then, this is the last response you're getting from me.

[Aronis]

Prod dodge. I'll post tomorrow.

[Aronis]

Bookitty, please vote me or don't. But this on the rope stuff is stupid.

Jake is prob town. Anti might be scum. Slight lean town on Grib.

[Aronis]

aronis so i'm guessing by lack of response that i was right and that line of questioning was just filler and you didn't actually care??? sounds right

aronis jake andddd pine/jingle/idk??

quilford can u pls reorganize the first post playerlist by pick order? it's very confusing atm since i forget some parts match and some don't

I don't exactly understand what you're trying to see, but at the moment I really don't care because it looks like I'm going to get policy lynched.

[Aronis]

See=say

[Aronis]

On a related note, why is Aronis on your scumlist now, Farside? Do you think I'm scum with Aronis? What is your thought process there, please?

Why would scum want your role specifically? That was part of your suspicion of Pine if I recall correctly.

Arnois doesn't hide from wagons. He fights against players and would be in here to tell players who he thought was scum. I also pointed out he is not too busy to post more.

Why are you suddenly defending him?

Normally I don't. However with the exception of Bookitty, nobody really wanted to talk to me[which just shows how little credibility my wagon has as there is no logic or reasoning behind it] and despite discussing with her she continued to believe me to be scum do to role selection and there was no reason to continue that discussion as there was nothing I could do about that, plus she has changed her read on me to null or whatever.

I believe Bookitty is scum, I have said that, I have voted her. Unfortunately nobody seems to listen much.

While I wasn't busy early friday, I have been gone all friday evening, most of saturday, and will be gone most of sunday. So I wouldn't expect much until monday. On top of that, I have no real interest in putting effort into finding more reads when I'm about to be lynched for some stupid nonexistent reason, so this game is like my last priority.

[Aronis]

Prod dodge. I might post something tonight.

[Aronis]

Since DeasVail is like officially the best mafia player now, I think I might just start sheeping him.

[Aronis]

Since DeasVail is like officially the best mafia player now, I think I might just start sheeping him.

I don't know what to say to this except that I'm pretty sure I'm not as good as people seem to think I am!

Quit trying to downplay your greatness.

VOTE: VictorDeAngelo

I still wouldn't mind seeing Bookitty hang though. Not a huge fan of the Viomi wagon.

[Aronis]

Quit trying to downplay your greatness.

I appreciate the comment, but part of me feels like you're trying to suck up to me or something.

Nah, I'm just trying to avoid actually doing something.

[Aronis]

Looking at the more recent posts, I feel like killing anti would be much better than killing Bookitty.

[Aronis]

Looking at the more recent posts, I feel like killing anti would be much better than killing Bookitty.

Please don't buy that blatant beg for towncred... Pleeaaaaseee

Although yes I'm 100% on with killing anti cause I don't think Universal Backup can do anything first night anyways.

Problem is deadline...

I still feel like Bookitty is prob scum, but I feel like she deserves to survive. Anti is not any better than she is. At least she's producing some content.

[Aronis]

DeasVail could have given the vest to Shiidaji and then they shot whoever shiidaji was bodyguarding, so shiidaji abosrbed the shot. Or they could have no killed in hopes that we overreact and mislynch.

[Aronis]

what the fuck i'm town as shit that's a fucking waste no

This post doesn't give me a good feeling about Marquis.

[Aronis]

Yay! Policy Lynch!

[Aronis]

I am being lynched because of my role, so it's definitely a Policy Lynch.

[Aronis]

@Aronis: I don't really think it's a policy lynch.

In fairness, my reasoning for it mostly is.

I don't have a read one way or the other on Aronis, but I still want to lynch him based on role interactions. That's definition policy lynch.

Aronis, as town, convince me to lynch someone else. As scum, probably the same thing.

Antihero, he's a great choice for a policy lynch. Why? I'll give you four reasons.

1. His role is almost as useless as mine. The only way it's going to help us find scum is if he dies and if he dies then he can't tell us who targeted him.
2. He isn't doing anything protown[wow, I didn't realize how much me and him have in common]
3. DeasVail [the best scumhunter on this site is voting him.
4. He insulted you and I haven't [yet]. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p6612456

[Aronis]

Marquis is also a good choice [with her gone scum wouldn't have daytalk]

[Aronis]

And posts like that aren't doing the town any good^

Investigating her might be better though. That way we could kill two birds with 1 stone.