Game Balance

[Xdaamno]

Yeah, but for some people, balancing by eye can be very painstaking, so...

I seriously doubt balancing by eye could be more painstaking than 1000 Ifthens in any given situation

[Seol]

But could the system be improved to work better?

Not if it's linear. It's hard enough to find a formula that balances town to a single scum group.

You're better off using rules of thumb - proven numbers of town to scum, working out minimum/maximum/likely number of days the game will last and thus how many mislynches are allowed, working out worst/best/likely case scenarios of numbers of confirmed innocents at endgame, anticipating typical situations like claimed cop/hidden doc and how the other groups can handle that and so on.

[Axelrod]

Reasons it doesn't work...

5 cops vs 4 basic mafia... even with investigation start... is not a balanced setup irl, but by a point system it is.

You know, using such an extreme example does not actually prove that the idea is not valid.

It's almost like you said "hey, all you people who think smoking causes lung cancer, look at this guy right here, been smoking 5 packs a day for 25 years, and never even coughed a day in his life. I guess that pretty much disproves

that

theory."

What you describe isn't even a "Mafia" set-up under any common sense understanding of the terms.

Out of curiosity, however, assuming a "Cop head start", exactly which side do you think that set-up is unbalanced in favor of anyway?

[Oman]

its overpowered to the scum.
They only need 1 mislynch.
1 misvote even.

[Yosarian2]

its overpowered to the scum.
They only need 1 mislynch.
1 misvote even.

Yeah, but odds the cops will have at least one guilty a night, lowering the odds of any mislynches. The scum will of course also claim cop and may also claim guilty, but there's a high risk of:

A: Cop A has a guilty, cop B has an innocent on cop A

or

B. Scum A claims to be cop with guilty on B, real cop C gets a guilty on B

I don't know. Considering that even one mislynch at any point leads to a scum win, it may actually be almost a balanced setup, so long as the scum carefully plan out their gambits before the game starts. All in all, though, I'd say the town has the edge.

[Oman]

But 1 bad vote would run the risk of a quicklynch for win.

[Seol]

Well, that's a really good example of a setup which is of a completely different power level when it's closed and when it's open. As a closed setup it would be an instant win for the Mafia. As an open one, it would be a really confusing Dethy - nine cop claims day 1 with no-lynch not an option? Scum would win every time, I'm pretty sure.

[Twomz]

Yos, All the mafia have to do is pretend they have investigation results and jump on the first person with 1 or 2 votes on them. It would play out like a really fast imbalanced dethy game.

[undo]

Can anyone give me an example of a well-balanced game? (with normal power roles and all that)

[Kelly Chen]

For a mini I have trouble thinking of a really bad setup that follows this pattern:

3 mafia, maybe with one perk (like a godfather)
0-1 SK, with a perk or two
3 effective power roles (cop, doc, vig, mason pair, etc.)
5-6 townies

If it's a closed setup with flavor then the role flavor everybody gets becomes pretty important.

For a fourth power role I'd think one of them should be weak or limited somehow, or the mafia should have an extra perk (like a roleblocker), or something.

I don't think a single miller hurts the town that much, incidentally.

[Mr. Flay]

Cop+Doc with Deputy or Nurse is probably not balanced, but that's roughly balanced in most cases.

[Yosarian2]

Yos, All the mafia have to do is pretend they have investigation results and jump on the first person with 1 or 2 votes on them. It would play out like a really fast imbalanced dethy game.

(shrug) Well, the difference between this and deathy is that in this all the pro-town cops are sane, which means if they get a little lucky they might be able to "solve" the entire game day 1. "I investigated player A, I know he's innocent. He said he got an investigation on player B, so I know B is innocent. B got an innocet investigation on player C, so I know C is innocent. And C got a guilty investigation on player D. vote:D "