Mini 1668 - Mafia in Bremen - Game Over!

[Rune]

Obviously nothing wrong with speculation and a bit of arrogance, I think it's going to make this game a lot of fun. I think it's great to press as we will be able to get into productive parts of d1 sooner but we still have to wait on a few people to contribute more, myself included.

@RC this is my first game of this format so yes I am wondering about the balance of pr, multiple scum factions #of town, etc... And I only brought it up since scum pairs were being mentioned already (also early). It seems to me that this format should make associative tells even more difficult. I also brought it up in case anyone else was in a similar position and hadn't taken the time to read up on it.

[Jake from State Farm]

Sup

[TheReverend]

Shouldn't we all be talking in German? I know my essentials.

Einen wiessbier danke.

[TheReverend]

Ja. Dat ist gut ja.

[Nikanor]

Vote Count 1.01

BlueBloodedToffee (3)

- Prolapsed Brain, TheReverend, Rune

Rune (2)

- NotAnAxehole, RadiantCowbells

Prolapsed Brain (2)

- HaVoC, TheDudeAbides

TheReverend (2)

- Arceus, BlueBloodedToffee

Arceus (1)

- Dialga

Not Voting (3)

- Elyse, Dannflor, Jake from State Farm

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline falls in (expired on 2015-05-14 11:36:57).

[Jake from State Farm]

vote: brian

[NotAnAxehole]

I'll be v/la until Monday unfortunately. I'll try to post as much as i can. In the meantime UNVOTE:

I definitely have some reads developing here, nothing concrete, will post as soon as I can.

[Dannflor]

Hey, everyone. A few pages late, but whatevs.

I have exactly one scum read so far.

vote toffee

Is this an actual serious thing? Because Toffee's only real action had been his gimmick/joke thing about wagons. If you are serious, then that looks a lot like jumping on an easy target as soon as possible. Hoping you were joking though.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: BBT

I know we're still in RVS but you can do better than looking for any possible waggon. On the bright side, now you can hop on to your own!

IMO, I feel like all the attacks on Toffee for his wagon thing is weak. If you are in RVS, I don't really see how you can think having the votes spread around everywhere is better than putting extra pressure one person. If you have no pressure, the game doesn't evolve past RVS, pressure on someone? You generate reactions, etc. Weak reasoning to vote BBT.

You seem far too confident in your reads for this stage of the game.

I agree. Page 3 is also pretty early for associative tells to be truly indicative.

We also have to consider the possibility of multiple scum factions, right? That's my current understanding at least.

I apologize that so far I haven't been terribly in depth and mostly haven't been too analytical (and mostly critical), I've been at work all day and will be able to contribute more significantly later tonight and this weekend.

People jump on "associative tells" all the time early in the game, because it's the only thing to do. What else are we going to do? Sit around until someone claims scum?

Why did you bring up multiple scum factions?

TBH, last line while not terrible, reads a bit to me like scum making an excuse. A bit WIFOM, but I usually see that sort of excuse from scum more often than town.

Sup

High quality post.

vote: brian

Also high quality.

Vote: Rune

My strongest scummy read ATM. I don't think Brain nor Toffee have been very scummy, but they're at each others throats for some reason. I keep going back and forth on Reverend.

I may post again in a bit, going to reread for important stuff I may have missed.

[TheReverend]

Is this an actual serious thing? Because Toffee's only real action had been his gimmick/joke thing about wagons. If you are serious, then that looks a lot like jumping on an easy target as soon as possible. Hoping you were joking though.

Yeah it was serious. When does town ever care if he's first or second on a wagon? Why is town even thinking about that?

Is it a slam dunk scum tell? Obviously not. Is it worthy of note at this stage of the game? Yup, and I'll vote him for it and see how he reacts, because that's just about all we can do on d1. Talk, accuse, vote, based mostly on gut.

Why is toffee an easy target? Why is he an easier target than, say, brain?

[TheReverend]

vote: brian

He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy.

[Dannflor]

Is this an actual serious thing? Because Toffee's only real action had been his gimmick/joke thing about wagons. If you are serious, then that looks a lot like jumping on an easy target as soon as possible. Hoping you were joking though.

Yeah it was serious. When does town ever care if he's first or second on a wagon? Why is town even thinking about that?

Is it a slam dunk scum tell? Obviously not. Is it worthy of note at this stage of the game? Yup, and I'll vote him for it and see how he reacts, because that's just about all we can do on d1. Talk, accuse, vote, based mostly on gut.

Why is toffee an easy target? Why is he an easier target than, say, brain?[/quote]

I think I'm just reading his posts differently than you are. I can't speak for him but I don't think his wagon fetish and ignoring your self vote is scummy.

I think Toffee could be a deceptively easy target because hopping on wagons is generally associated with scum, although in reality, it makes sense if you are still in RVS.

[Jake from State Farm]

vote: brian

He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy.

i'm sorry?

[Rune]

@Dan (82)

regarding your last line, I believe it assumes I won't follow up (which I plan to). You'll see over time that I plan to be posting moderately frequently and hopefully with meaningful content, so I hope that the context of my post makes more sense as the game moves forward.

I am not arguing against making associative tells, just pointing out that if anyone wants to convince me on their own opinions it is unlikely to happen so early (although, we have seen some interesting reactions so far)

I explained in post 75 why I brought up multiple factions, and I maintain that given my position it was a solid point to make - particularly in regards to early associative tells. If anyone has played multiple games in this forum and wants to explain to me why I am wrong, I'd be happy to hear about it. However, from my experience with mafia, I assumed that it is good to remind town that there may be multiple teams to look out for... how is that bad?

I also agree that having pressure on people is a great way to move out of RVS, I was simply pointing out that BBT seemed to be voting quite liberally according to arbitrary wagons which appeared on the first few pages. My vote on BBT was actually exactly for that purpose - not meant as a strong scumread but more meant to apply pressure to an existing wagon and see what comes out of it.

Anyways, next post coming to give general thoughts on the game so far.

[Rune]

I am wary of Brain's post 12, but this could very easily be a joke post on the first page, so I don't give too much thought to it immediately.

I think that Reverend's self vote on post 15 caused some interesting, dialogue, most notable in posts 18,30, and 33. The result of this for me is a very slight scumread / anti-town on BBT and the opinon that Reverend should be interesting to play with throughout this game - null read for now.

PB makes a poor point in 43 which gives me a slight scumread, but BBT responds well to it. PB then makes post 53 which seems overly aggressive, but then in 55 and 57 backtracks / clarifies, so I am more inclined to go with it not being a serious post.

I want to see more from RadiantCowbells, as so far the posts have seem very reactionary and not too analytical, but ultimately I don't have a read either way at this point.

I like Dannflor's post in 82 for the most part [including sarcasm] although I think he is intentionally ignoring some of my previous posts in which I already answered some of the questions he asked - this makes me feel like he could be trying to jump on a seemingly logical bandwagon and so I have a slight scumread. However, since multiple people have brought up the scumminess of discussing multiple scum-teams so early, I will be willing to drop my scumread given a decent explanation as to my mistakes / misunderstandings of optimal strategy so far.

I also like Dannflor's post in 85 as well, which makes me less confident in a scumread, but at this point there isn't exactly enough content for me to be particularly confident either way.

In general, I am happy with my vote for the moment as I believe it has potential to add to the discussion, but I will strongly consider changing it depending on how the next few pages go.

[Rune]

Jake has made some really insubstantial posts which I am not a fan of, but there isn't enough there for me to make any read but null, and I'd also like to say that I am very interested in the ongoing poke-battle.

[RadiantCowbells]

I want to see more from RadiantCowbells, as so far the posts have seem very reactionary and not too analytical, but ultimately I don't have a read either way at this point.

guessing this is your first game as scum.

welcome to the party.

[Rune]

I want to see more from RadiantCowbells, as so far the posts have seem very reactionary and not too analytical, but ultimately I don't have a read either way at this point.

guessing this is your first game as scum.

welcome to the party.

You're simply proving the point I made... and your read incorrect.

Is that an implication that you are scum?

[Jake from State Farm]

Jake has made some really insubstantial posts which I am not a fan of, but there isn't enough there for me to make any read but null, and I'd also like to say that I am very interested in the ongoing poke-battle.

Don't worry, its still early in the game. I'm pacing myself cause I don't think anyone is ready for me just yet.

That being said, I like my current vote, its a very serious one. I'll go ahead and just give everyone a heads up that this weekend will be busy for me but after that I shouldn't be so busy, wasn't expecting the game to start so soon.

Daughter has 2 soccer games, wife and I are walking a 5k on Saturday, Sunday I'm running my first half marathon, and tomorrow im chaperone on a school field trip.

I'll try to pop in every day though. Duces

[NotAnAxehole]

Jake has made some really insubstantial posts which I am not a fan of, but there isn't enough there for me to make any read but null, and I'd also like to say that I am very interested in the ongoing poke-battle.

Don't worry, its still early in the game. I'm pacing myself cause I don't think anyone is ready for me just yet.

That being said, I like my current vote, its a very serious one. I'll go ahead and just give everyone a heads up that this weekend will be busy for me but after that I shouldn't be so busy, wasn't expecting the game to start so soon.

Daughter has 2 soccer games, wife and I are walking a 5k on Saturday, Sunday I'm running my first half marathon, and tomorrow im chaperone on a school field trip.

I'll try to pop in every day though. Duces

Stay fresh!

[Prolapsed Brain]

word salad

I bet you're fun at parties.

vote: brian

He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy.

i'm sorry?

Monty Python reference. I am disappoint.

[Dannflor]

@Dan (82)

regarding your last line, I believe it assumes I won't follow up (which I plan to). You'll see over time that I plan to be posting moderately frequently and hopefully with meaningful content, so I hope that the context of my post makes more sense as the game moves forward.

I am not arguing against making associative tells, just pointing out that if anyone wants to convince me on their own opinions it is unlikely to happen so early (although, we have seen some interesting reactions so far)

I explained in post 75 why I brought up multiple factions, and I maintain that given my position it was a solid point to make - particularly in regards to early associative tells. If anyone has played multiple games in this forum and wants to explain to me why I am wrong, I'd be happy to hear about it. However, from my experience with mafia, I assumed that it is good to remind town that there may be multiple teams to look out for... how is that bad?

I also agree that having pressure on people is a great way to move out of RVS, I was simply pointing out that BBT seemed to be voting quite liberally according to arbitrary wagons which appeared on the first few pages. My vote on BBT was actually exactly for that purpose - not meant as a strong scumread but more meant to apply pressure to an existing wagon and see what comes out of it.

Anyways, next post coming to give general thoughts on the game so far.

I think you'll follow up in one way or another. How you follow up will decide where my read on you goes. Up till now, I haven't seen anything great come from your slot, and while others have done the same, you're one of the ones who's also seemingly active.

Also, I understand that tells like that may not fully convince you that someone is scum, but you don't have to know that someone is scum to vote them. If they do something slightly scummy, and there hasn't been much else going on (aka start of the game), then you might as well vote them. I don't think tells have to convince you of anything, they just have to be scummy enough to deserve a vote and some pressure. TBH, I'm kinda getting off topic here. You simply said that they aren't fully alignment indicative, that's true, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't act on them.

Yeah, I saw your explanation, and I guess my question there is a bit of an empty one. However, it read to me as someone just bringing something up for the sake of having something to talk about, which is something scum loves to do because it hides the fact that they aren't really contributing anything. I might be able to cut you some slack if you're new to the mode or whatever, something about it still just strikes me as weird.

I like your "new" line of reasoning for voting BBT more, but I really really don't like this line:

I know we're still in RVS but you can do better than looking for any possible waggon.

I'm glad you've shared your reads and such now, however I can't help but feel you are posting empty content, unwilling to commit to anything.

I am wary of Brain's post 12, but this could very easily be a joke post on the first page, so I don't give too much thought to it immediately.

Empty, null read. You continue on this for the rest of your post. It looks like you wrote a lot, but you don't actually say anything.

I think that Reverend's self vote on post 15 caused some interesting, dialogue, most notable in posts 18,30, and 33. The result of this for me is a very slight scumread / anti-town on BBT and the opinon that Reverend should be interesting to play with throughout this game - null read for now.

A few comments here and there. You slide in "slight scumread and slight town read here in there, but in the end it continues to be null.

PB makes a poor point in 43 which gives me a slight scumread, but BBT responds well to it. PB then makes post 53 which seems overly aggressive, but then in 55 and 57 backtracks / clarifies, so I am more inclined to go with it not being a serious post.

You're pointing things out and just not... really saying anything. He gives you a slight scum read, then it's all a joke.

I want to see more from RadiantCowbells, as so far the posts have seem very reactionary and not too analytical, but ultimately I don't have a read either way at this point.

Null. Not much here.

I like Dannflor's post in 82 for the most part [including sarcasm] although I think he is intentionally ignoring some of my previous posts in which I already answered some of the questions he asked - this makes me feel like he could be trying to jump on a seemingly logical bandwagon and so I have a slight scumread. However, since multiple people have brought up the scumminess of discussing multiple scum-teams so early, I will be willing to drop my scumread given a decent explanation as to my mistakes / misunderstandings of optimal strategy so far.

I also like Dannflor's post in 85 as well, which makes me less confident in a scumread, but at this point there isn't exactly enough content for me to be particularly confident either way.

null again (seeing a pattern)

In general, I am happy with my vote for the moment as I believe it has potential to add to the discussion, but I will strongly consider changing it depending on how the next few pages go.

Based one what I'm reading, you seem to have one scum read, and that is BBT, which the only reasoning I've seen for is him wanting to vote on a wagon in RVS. Cool.

Another example of posting but not doing anything:

Jake has made some really insubstantial posts which I am not a fan of, but there isn't enough there for me to make any read but null, and I'd also like to say that I am very interested in the ongoing poke-battle.

Jake made what... two posts? Even attempting to post a read of him reeks of just, well... trying too hard.

When I originally read your posts, I almost changed my mind because they seemed logical and towny, but then I took a closer look, and honestly, they appear towny because you make some observations, but you don't commit to anything at all. I suppose I can't expect you to have heavy scum and town reads at this point, but saying something useful would be nice. Posting about null reads is useless. Useless posting. I would rather you have expanded on your one scum read, BBT. Why are you voting him exactly? You want to generate discussion? What a vague answer. Do you actually think he is scum? If so, provide more reason than your first post you voted him in. He's posted a lot since then, has he done more scummy things that require a vote?

I think, I to, am happy where my vote is.

[Dannflor]

Spoiler:

I have exactly one scum read so far.

vote toffee

VOTE: rune

This is not rvs.

How is that not rvs?!?!

Scum caught page 1.

Lynch brain please.

Vote: Brain

UNVOTE:
VOTE: BBT

I know we're still in RVS but you can do better than looking for any possible waggon. On the bright side, now you can hop on to your own!

I'll vote you as soon as a wagon forms.

RVS should be used for building wagons, not throwing around pointless votes.

You seem far too confident in your reads for this stage of the game.

I agree. Page 3 is also pretty early for associative tells to be truly indicative.

We also have to consider the possibility of multiple scum factions, right? That's my current understanding at least.

I apologize that so far I haven't been terribly in depth and mostly haven't been too analytical (and mostly critical), I've been at work all day and will be able to contribute more significantly later tonight and this weekend.

Sup

vote: brian

@Dan (82)

regarding your last line, I believe it assumes I won't follow up (which I plan to). You'll see over time that I plan to be posting moderately frequently and hopefully with meaningful content, so I hope that the context of my post makes more sense as the game moves forward.

I am not arguing against making associative tells, just pointing out that if anyone wants to convince me on their own opinions it is unlikely to happen so early (although, we have seen some interesting reactions so far)

I explained in post 75 why I brought up multiple factions, and I maintain that given my position it was a solid point to make - particularly in regards to early associative tells. If anyone has played multiple games in this forum and wants to explain to me why I am wrong, I'd be happy to hear about it. However, from my experience with mafia, I assumed that it is good to remind town that there may be multiple teams to look out for... how is that bad?

I also agree that having pressure on people is a great way to move out of RVS, I was simply pointing out that BBT seemed to be voting quite liberally according to arbitrary wagons which appeared on the first few pages. My vote on BBT was actually exactly for that purpose - not meant as a strong scumread but more meant to apply pressure to an existing wagon and see what comes out of it.

Anyways, next post coming to give general thoughts on the game so far.

I am wary of Brain's post 12, but this could very easily be a joke post on the first page, so I don't give too much thought to it immediately.

I think that Reverend's self vote on post 15 caused some interesting, dialogue, most notable in posts 18,30, and 33. The result of this for me is a very slight scumread / anti-town on BBT and the opinon that Reverend should be interesting to play with throughout this game - null read for now.

PB makes a poor point in 43 which gives me a slight scumread, but BBT responds well to it. PB then makes post 53 which seems overly aggressive, but then in 55 and 57 backtracks / clarifies, so I am more inclined to go with it not being a serious post.

I want to see more from RadiantCowbells, as so far the posts have seem very reactionary and not too analytical, but ultimately I don't have a read either way at this point.

I like Dannflor's post in 82 for the most part [including sarcasm] although I think he is intentionally ignoring some of my previous posts in which I already answered some of the questions he asked - this makes me feel like he could be trying to jump on a seemingly logical bandwagon and so I have a slight scumread. However, since multiple people have brought up the scumminess of discussing multiple scum-teams so early, I will be willing to drop my scumread given a decent explanation as to my mistakes / misunderstandings of optimal strategy so far.

I also like Dannflor's post in 85 as well, which makes me less confident in a scumread, but at this point there isn't exactly enough content for me to be particularly confident either way.

In general, I am happy with my vote for the moment as I believe it has potential to add to the discussion, but I will strongly consider changing it depending on how the next few pages go.

Also, I think I'll read the ISO's of both BBT and PB. First read through gives me the impression that they are both town. I'll give it a second look though, considering that seems to be the area where most of the votes are headed right now. I think Rune is our best bet for now though.

Spoilered accidental quote wall. ~Nik

[Dannflor]

CRAP! Didn't mean to post that wall.

Mod, could you edit my last post and delete all that? Complete accident.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Brain

Will read later.

[TheDudeAbides]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: BBT

I know we're still in RVS but you can do better than looking for any possible waggon. On the bright side, now you can hop on to your own!

Rune is town. Never lynch him.

I know we're still in RVS but you can do better than looking for any possible waggon.

I'm not concerned about his wagon hopping in RVS, my concern is his unwillingness to vote for me after my self vote, despite expressing displeasure. He's shown he's not afraid to throw his vote around, so why is he reluctant to move out of RVS by putting a serious vote on me? I got the inmpression he wanted to avoid conflict, while at the same time didn't want to ignore my self vote. Why would town seek to avoid conflict?

On the other hand, the reverend might be scum.

VOTE: Reverend

Who's toffee?

Feigned ignorance clearly means you're BBT's scumpal.

You can be tomorrow's lynch if he flips scum.

protecting his scum buddy.