Mini 1670 - WTF MAFIA

[Drixx]

If he's town, scum aren't going to night kill him and leave him as a stump who can vote. If he's scum, obviously scum aren't going to night kill him. Him making that claim ensured that his win condition is anti-town. He will never die in such a way that results in him having a pro-town vote afterwards (if his claim is true), and there's no way in hell he can be trusted in LYLO. He wins by surviving so if it goes to LYLO, scum will just vote and he'll follow and he doesn't give a shit which team wins so long as he wins.

He's a policy lynch as a survivor, and he knows it. The only real question is whether or not he actually has some kind of post death treestump voting ability. To me, that would fall into bastard territory but I'm not sure about the site guidelines and whether it would just be "non normal" or if it would be considered a bastard role. I'm tempted to just call bullshit on it and encourage that we kill the survivor as a matter of policy. If his claim is honest, he's even more of a threat than survivor's normally are.

[Derangement]

If he's town, scum aren't going to night kill him and leave him as a stump who can vote. If he's scum, obviously scum aren't going to night kill him. Him making that claim ensured that his win condition is anti-town. He will never die in such a way that results in him having a pro-town vote afterwards (if his claim is true), and there's no way in hell he can be trusted in LYLO. He wins by surviving so if it goes to LYLO, scum will just vote and he'll follow and he doesn't give a shit which team wins so long as he wins.

He's a policy lynch as a survivor, and he knows it. The only real question is whether or not he actually has some kind of post death treestump voting ability. To me, that would fall into bastard territory but I'm not sure about the site guidelines and whether it would just be "non normal" or if it would be considered a bastard role. I'm tempted to just call bullshit on it and encourage that we kill the survivor as a matter of policy. If his claim is honest, he's even more of a threat than survivor's normally are.

The thing is, if his claim is legit, then while he's alive, he's an unknown.
He might help or hinder town, depending on which faction's the closest to winning.

But if he dies, then he's

guaranteed

to be a problem for the faction dropping the hammer.

I am in no rush to risk the latter scenario, if I can help it.

[Drixx]

Don't you get it? Let's say he's being completely honest. His win condition will change after he's dead, but he still won't know who is scum or town, so he could just as likely help either side. Any way we slice it he is trouble, but he's much

more

trouble if left alive, especially at end game. He has no incentive whatsoever to play for a town win and therefore is a policy lynch. The only reason we haven't already all agreed to lynch him today and moved on to talking about other things is because of his whole "My win condition changes from survivor to whichever team is responsible for killing me, and I get to vote when I'm dead so you better not lynch me" bullshit. Like ... that's exactly the kind of fake claim to expect from a Neutral Survivor who is aware of how anti-neutral the site meta is here. It is considerably more likely than not that the whole alignment changing (bastard for sure) voting after dead (at the very best non-normal, if not bastard) claim is just pure bullshit.

Is this logically difficult... at all?

[Flubbernugget]

There's been evidence that this is a fakeclaim.

You've stated more evidence that this is a fakeclaim.

Lets not lynch because of logic based on his claim being true.

I love it

[Flubbernugget]

If mcmenno flips scum who's up for a drix flashlynch?

[Drixx]

So I'm saying we should kill the guy and you want to lynch me if it turns out that I'm right and his claim is bullshit? Can I have some of whatever you're smoking?

[Derangement]

Okay, so.

By clever application of stalking, we know my post #27 was at

19:02:31

;
McMenno's last post on site was at

21:12:25

.

He is neither scum-hunting nor answering our questions.
So I'm inclined to suggest we start piling votes on him, if this doesn't change.

In the off chance that McMenno's claim isn't fake, we find a third-party who's willing to drop the hammer, assuming McMenno's victory condition only changes if there's an actual

faction

involved.
If someone helps us with this, and McMenno turns out to really have been telling the truth, then that person's contribution will have helped

immensely

, making them pretty much unlynchable.

I'd offer to do so myself, but unfortunately I am town.
Any thoughts, comments, suggestions on how to improve on this idea, or flaws I might have missed are very welcome.

[Flubbernugget]

So I'm saying we should kill the guy and you want to lynch me if it turns out that I'm right and his claim is bullshit? Can I have some of whatever you're smoking?

I'm suggesting the possibility of you defending a scumbuddy that botched a fakeclaim.

You're also conveniently leaving out the matter of

when

to lynch mcmenno which I am also taking trouble with

[Drixx]

Was there some part of #77 that was confusing, or are you trying to get me to scum read you for some reason flubber? I don't see me at all defending that bullshit claim there. I don't think there's any upside to letting him live. The worst case scenario is that his claim is actually true, and I am almost completely certain that he was spewing bullshit all over the place. Someone would have to come into the game and outright claim to be scum to get me to want to lynch someone else today, at this point.

Since there's no conceivable universe where scum come into the thread and say they are scum (would result in a mod kill I believe since it's playing against win condition), you should take that as confirmation that I plan to hammer the shit out of McMenno. I'm looking forward to it. In fact, I'm going to just go ahead and give

intent to hammer

right now. Whomever puts him at L-1 ... know that I'm gonna hammer the second I notice.

[Derangement]

you should take that as confirmation that I plan to hammer the shit out of McMenno. I'm looking forward to it. In fact, I'm going to just go ahead and give

intent to hammer

right now. Whomever puts him at L-1 ... know that I'm gonna hammer the second I notice.

Whoa. Thank you!

Didn't expect we'd find a third-party that was pro-town enough to volunteer this quickly.

[Bins]

Man, this is like deja vu.

[Bins]

you should take that as confirmation that I plan to hammer the shit out of McMenno. I'm looking forward to it. In fact, I'm going to just go ahead and give

intent to hammer

right now. Whomever puts him at L-1 ... know that I'm gonna hammer the second I notice.

Whoa. Thank you!

Didn't expect we'd find a third-party that was pro-town enough to volunteer this quickly.

I don't think I'm ever going to understand what each of your posts mean.

[elusive]

VOTE: McMenno

Let's ride this train

[Bins]

Listen up!

I am a third party survivor,

but...

I can vote in the afterlife, and if I'm killed, my win condition changes to see the faction that killed me lose! If I'm lynched, that faction will be that of the hammerer...

So,

in short, don't lynch me!

This role is basically a modified pseudo-jester.

I'm not comfortable with anyone hammering McMenno.

[Drixx]

The claim is obvious bullshit. This game is not supposed to have bastard elements. He claims to have alignment change. That's impossible in a non-bastard game. Ergo, he probably is a survivor and he added the rest of that bullshit to try and keep us from lynching him.

@Derangement - Sorry to burst your bubble, but I already crumbed my role in my first post. Do with that what you will.

[Bins]

Meh. It's used in like... Cracking Idea Mafia. My role is a mixture of like 4 different roles on that very list, so I'm not surprised.

[Bins]

Ergo, he probably is a survivor and he added the rest of that bullshit to try and keep us from lynching him.

I doubt he'd do this. It'd be a stupid play.

It makes sense. I mean, avoid scumkills... avoid lynches...

You lynch pseudojester type roles once you have an obvtown. I don't see why he'd fakeclaim this. We

will

lynch him, but especially with a hammer alignment change, let's not get to... finicky.

[Derangement]

you should take that as confirmation that I plan to hammer the shit out of McMenno. I'm looking forward to it. In fact, I'm going to just go ahead and give

intent to hammer

right now. Whomever puts him at L-1 ... know that I'm gonna hammer the second I notice.

Whoa. Thank you!

Didn't expect we'd find a third-party that was pro-town enough to volunteer this quickly.

I don't think I'm ever going to understand what each of your posts mean.

That post means I think Drixx is a third-party player, who volunteered to help town by offering to hammer McMenno.

This way, even

if

McMenno's claim is legit, he'll still have been hammered by someone who does not belong to a faction, so his post-death wincon won't cause us trouble.

[Drixx]

You know ... one of the hallmarks of really good 3rd party and scum play is that people say shit like "I doubt X would do Y if they were Z." ... when you find yourself saying something like that, you should probably take a moment and rethink your priors.

Please explain to me what possible upside there is to letting him live? Let's look at the possibilities, shall we?

1.) He's a survivor but made up the crap about alignment change and the treestump voter thing as a way to toss wine all over the place and make us afraid to lynch him. If this is the case, he cannot be trusted and is a policy lynch.
2.) He's a survivor and he really does have the bastard alignment change and the treestump voter thing. In this case he's even more of a problem for us and there's still no reason to consider him anything but a policy lynch.
3.) He's scum making a "stupid play" and gambling that we won't want to lynch him and risk his claim being true which would, if it were, would permanently add an anti-town vote to the game. Obviously we still want to lynch him if this is the case.

Is there any case where this guy doesn't need to be lynched?

[Drixx]

you should take that as confirmation that I plan to hammer the shit out of McMenno. I'm looking forward to it. In fact, I'm going to just go ahead and give

intent to hammer

right now. Whomever puts him at L-1 ... know that I'm gonna hammer the second I notice.

Whoa. Thank you!

Didn't expect we'd find a third-party that was pro-town enough to volunteer this quickly.

I don't think I'm ever going to understand what each of your posts mean.

That post means I think Drixx is a third-party player, who volunteered to help town by offering to hammer McMenno.

This way, even

if

McMenno's claim is legit, he'll still have been hammered by someone who does not belong to a faction, so his post-death wincon won't cause us trouble.

Then you apparently missed the point. I think is claim is absolute bullshit, ergo I have zero fear of hammering him. If you want a third party to hammer him, then you need to look elsewhere.

[Derangement]

Then you apparently missed the point. I think is claim is absolute bullshit, ergo I have zero fear of hammering him. If you want a third party to hammer him, then you need to look elsewhere.

Ugh. Glad that was brought up, then.

I am

not

okay with town hammering McMenno, at least until we know more about what we're dealing with.
Any non-town volunteers who'd like to accept our eternal love and worship?

[Derangement]

Please explain to me what possible upside there is to letting him live? Let's look at the possibilities, shall we?

<snip>

2.) He's a survivor and he really does have the bastard alignment change and the treestump voter thing. In this case he's even more of a problem for us and there's still no reason to consider him anything but a policy lynch.

<snip>

Is there any case where this guy doesn't need to be lynched?

This does not follow.

If he

is

a survivor with on-death alignment change, and dead-voting to boot, then town killing him

ensures

he will become our enemy.
Keeping him alive leaves him the option of aiding us if we correctly lynch scum and look like we're more likely to win.

I still think the ideal solution is for non-town to lynch him in this case, of course.

[Flubbernugget]

Was there some part of #77 that was confusing, or are you trying to get me to scum read you for some reason flubber? I don't see me at all defending that bullshit claim there. I don't think there's any upside to letting him live. The worst case scenario is that his claim is actually true, and I am almost completely certain that he was spewing bullshit all over the place. Someone would have to come into the game and outright claim to be scum to get me to want to lynch someone else today, at this point.

Since there's no conceivable universe where scum come into the thread and say they are scum (would result in a mod kill I believe since it's playing against win condition), you should take that as confirmation that I plan to hammer the shit out of McMenno. I'm looking forward to it. In fact, I'm going to just go ahead and give

intent to hammer

right now. Whomever puts him at L-1 ... know that I'm gonna hammer the second I notice.

Bro...73

[Drixx]

What does it matter if he wins with scum? He's a problem for us in LYLO no matter what since scum can just vote and he'll vote with them and win. Unless he's gonna get access to the scum PT or a list of who is scum, then it won't matter if he changes from neutral to scum win condition. He'll be just as blind about who is whom. If he

does

get access to a list of scum or the scum PT, then we'll see that by analyzing if and when he votes. If he's honest and we lynch him then his only real hope is to hold his vote until LYLO so he doesn't help us find scum. In the end, the logical analysis suggests that he is the same level of problem for us no matter what, except if we leave him alive into LYLO in which case he's more of a problem since we'd rather have a townie in that spot.

[Flubbernugget]

You went from "don't lynch till we've gotten 2 scum" to "hammer as soon as I see L-1" in one page

Three people have posted without takind note of this

I must be missing something really simple