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Post #487 (isolation #4) » Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:21 pm
Postby Ra9in9 Bull »
In post 485, Trench Warfare wrote:So you could you know read the game? Come up with reads. TSO and I need to hash a few things out. Kinda surprised by two double voters with different methods. That's going to get complicated really fucking quick.
In post 299, Skybird wrote:I'm liking farside's questioning and poking. Think she's town.
Not liking Verzok's tunnel. Beer's posts are strange and I'm going to assume the posts in their PT are also strange. But I think Verzok is misrepping Beer in order to get him lynched. Scum read on Verzok.
Yes. I'm actually a scum double-voter in a neighbourhood with town and decided to go all in a gambit with very little pay-out day 1. How do you arrive at such brilliant conclusions my master Skybird? /sarcasm.
This is the towniest post ever. I agree the gambit as scum would be stupid. Further, Beer wouldn't pull the "oh I'm scum" deal as actual scum. Beer's actually the one pulling a gambit as town, and Vezok is actually latching onto it. TvT
Spoiler: Skybird
In post 299, Skybird wrote:I'm liking farside's questioning and poking. Think she's town.
Not liking Verzok's tunnel. Beer's posts are strange and I'm going to assume the posts in their PT are also strange. But I think Verzok is misrepping Beer in order to get him lynched. Scum read on Verzok.
why do you like farside's questioning and poking? The Vezok scumread is pretty bad. I doubt it's an intentional misrep. That would just be calling attention on Vezok as scum.
Yeah, and I remember from the last game how well you can read me. Like, not at all.
This marquis focus is bad too. How about YOU actually make a case on someone instead of just asking someone else for their case and then taunting them about how they can't read you. If Marquis is scum, he already knows your alignment. If town, why would you be town taunting another townie?
In post 299, Skybird wrote:But I think Verzok is misrepping Beer in order to get him lynched. Scum read on Verzok.
I doubt this is the case.
Both Pawtucket and I are of the opinion that it's more likely Veko is town. I don't really think he's been "misrepresenting" anything I'm saying so much as "misinterpreting" things. It's also true that I haven't exactly been going out of my way to make it easy for him!
So what is the town motivation for trying to make it harder for a player to read you?
I think you can figure this out. There are multiple reasons. Or are you trying to out some kind of role for your benefit?
In post 430, Marquis wrote:people keep posting that garnet song on tumblr and i don't know how i feel about it
blah blah more fluffposting until i find something i care about
also i still don't feel like skybird actually thought she would get a case from me and i think her response was unnecessarily defensive/prepared to some small extent
No, I actually want to know if you have a case and are trying to scum hunt or if you are just screwing around and sheeping others. (for the sonic vote) Now that you are voting me, can you articulate a case or are you just throwing mud hoping something sticks?
Again, can YOU make a case on someone? Or are you just going to keep bugging marquis for a case?
In post 457, Skybird wrote:Beer, how would you describe your scum hunting style then? If you think looking at town or scum motivation is silly, what do you look for in determining who is town and who is scum?
This is a good question. I'll ask you the same. How do you look for town or scum motivation, and when will you start to form a case on someone?
Marquis is town marquis. The trolly entrance kind and forming a read with time and information. Not forcing reads at first like I've seen from Marquis' alt.
I can't read Metal correctly. Marquis, what do you make of Z? Scummy?
Spoiler: ZZZX head
In post 290, Sonic X wrote:ZZZX here on phone. Literally skimmed everything on phone and I am surprised how bad bear case was. Nearly non exostant infact and people like marquis followed it? Marquis I know you are better than following a random paragraph of bullshit that uses some shiny words to appear like a case.
Unless you are scum. Which I hope you are not cus I wana enjoy interacting with you to catch scum
Either way I'll see ya all in 1-2 hours when I am on pc
-Z
This is really fake from Z. Z's also using his deal where he calls people's techniques bullshit (360s or 180s or whatever, associatives, PoE, etc.)
I cannot see both of you as town. I think it's very likely one of you is town and one is scum (although I wouldn't discount both scum), so I'd like to PoE you.
So in other words you will use poe.
If they are town we are scum
If they are scum there are two scum and we are scum?
Thus I just heard the most messed up thing in a while
-Z
So grapes is a double voting miller? Also
In post 466, grapes wrote:I mean, call this a chainsaw or whatever. But radman is pretty transparently town.
how is Radmann transparently town? I've never played with Rad so I saw a bunch of wishy washy/nullish reads while trying to appear towny. Four votes on Radmann I wouldn't say is transparently town...unless you are saying it's scum motivated. Who else do you think is scum on the Radmann wagon?
Spoiler: Reasonably Rational/Tunnel Warriors
In post 356, Reasonably Rational wrote:
P.S. Tunnel warriors, I'm not sure I like your role reveal. The multiple alliances thing was fine, and all you had to say. The bit about protecting everyone? Yeah, that makes you a target, and the role is far too useful mid-late game for you to paint a target on yourself on day 1, and I'm sure you realize that. Oh, and then you say bad things happen to scum when you die? Nice way to disincentivize town from lynching you, while simultaneously explaining away your continued survival. Not sure I buy any of the shit you're selling.
-Cerb
I disagree. I think if Tunnel Warriors really is town that this quality would be something they'd want to get out there as part of a town bloc. There's enough power in this game that if they really appear town with time, then a protective role should keep them around from getting NK'd.
That said, Tunnel's push on Marquis is p bad. Fluff =/= scum. Also, I've experienced the exact opposite with Marquis (well actually the Cho alt)
In post 342, TunnelWarriors wrote:Then I may remind you all how Marquis tends to play with these floaty play-styles when he's scum. As town he's more down-to-earth and serious.
Tried to be all serious with the early reads in our newbie game, and i fell for it too and townread him hard D1. In Ori, they came in with the goofiness and floaty style, then serious'd up after a bit and helped town win
In post 457, Skybird wrote:Beer, how would you describe your scum hunting style then? If you think looking at town or scum motivation is silly, what do you look for in determining who is town and who is scum?
No, I think suggesting
everything
must have town
or
scum motivation is silly.
OK, I see. Thanks.
Skybird just leaves it. Was skybird really interested in how beer scumhunts? If so, why not follow up on getting beer to answer that question? Or was skybird just asking it to ask it, and not actually care what the answer to the scumhunting part was?
I also didn't explain the ZZZX/Marquis deal enough. I've played with them twice. Once with them as a scumpair, the other with them as a townpair. In both cases, they seemed to play off each other and just come right out and say this is town ZZZX or town Marquis. I'm not getting that here, which makes me think that they are of different alignments. ZZZX additionally as scum would discredit people's methods of scumhunting him. So when Ricastle says he'll use PoE, and ZZZX discredits the PoE method (which is actually really an associative), it's something I notice.
Post
Post #895 (isolation #46) » Mon Jul 06, 2015 4:13 pm
Postby Ra9in9 Bull »
Spoiler: clean up out of hydra post
In post 851, Fro99er wrote:Apologies for lack of posting. I was on V/LA (but did focus on BEES when I could slip away for some computer time because that game was important to me). I'm on the road home from July 4 weekend at my in-laws and watching USA win the World Cup and being American as hell.
I'll check in tonight and for Varsoon I'll clean this up in hydra too. <3
i'm not sure where his experience level/mindset is with regards to what he expects scum to do vs. what scum realistically do. but. lol sorry i'm not trying to make a "lol ur a noob" comment because i hate those too but i'm kind of sick of all the incorrect assumptions regarding how/what scum play/are motivated to do, as well as the whole "marquis isn't drenching the game in useless excess questioning (because other people are already doing enough of that so it feels good to sit back and try and slowly sort through reads instead) so yeah he's probably scum"
well i mean
you're right in that my play could totally come from scum
but to be blunt it's more likely i'm town who doesn't really care about people scumreading me (other than this whole thing about being amused by maxwell - who ftr i would like to say i'm currently leaning town on, if it weren't for how i've been seeing scum these kinds of realistically bs pushes lately) than scum who realized i've been fluffing and didn't really do anything noteworthy for a while to address the scumreads
sorry i just have a bit more faith in my scumgame than that
Marquis you're just giggling at me, expecting me to just find a townread from you without supplying anything for me to work with besides admitting that you're fluffing, and admitting that you're making excuses, as if 'yeah i already know i haven't done anything so your comments mean nothing' somehow means you're town? If you know you're full of it, then do something. You keep saying 'wait, wait' but you've yet to find something in-thread to care about. I'm tired of the aloof better-than-you attitude. Not to mention the lack of questioning people who are actually townreading you for some reason.. I'm trying to understand what you're doing here. What aspects of your play am I supposed to be seeing as
not
scummy? Defend yourself instead of telling me to be psychic.
Max: You say Marquis is just giggling at you and providing anything to work with, yet you quote a post that is completely something to work with. You're latching on to the fluff posting, but underneath the fluff, I've seen substance (and pointed it out too).
No idea. I haven't done anything yet. I'm also not caught up yet because I spent too long playing Borderlands... sales make me lazy, yay. And seeing rage makes me nope out of things.
My only guess would be he thought it was weird/fake/empty/attention-draggy that I was asking who wanted to be allied w/ me when he thought I couldn't even be in an alliance. I would think that would be weird too. I'm surprised he's the only person that pointed that out.
But yeah, can ally, just can't be targeted because I'm special.
So you don't see your lack of game-related talks, besides those regarding your role, as something people would scumread you for?
Well, I ask this now but Ricastle has already said that was why they were scumreading you, but you don't seem to be worried about it. You've been active enough in this game (in a fluffy sense) but haven't really commented on what's been going on, and there has been plenty of discussion happening. What you need to catch up on is basically just the Ra9in9 Bull drama, but the things I'd actually like to hear about happened before that.
Max: why do you keep on fixating on "lack of game related talk" or "fluff". Usually scum are quite self aware about how they appear, so sometimes I see fluffposting as actually a towntell. It really depends on the person and situation. WHY would Beer fluffposting be scummy? Here's what I think. Either Beer really did scumslip in thread and the fluffposting is a way of making light of the situation. The other option is obviously they are fluffposting to get people like you to latch on to it to find them scummy. There are reasons town wouldn't want to totally appear as obvtown. In the case of Marquis, the early fluffposting is mostly null, if not even a bit towny, and now Marquis is applying his mind to the game (see the Skybird stuff, the amished tell stuff which came later, etc.)
Spoiler: Cheetory
In post 678, Cheetory6 wrote:Finished Sonic X ISOdive.
Hard to follow a linear progression through the whole thing, but I kind of expected that tbh. q.q
He talks about believing vezok's claims of Beer scumclaiming at the start, but then there's a lot more focus on trying to discredit Beer's arguments towards him vs discussing that afterwards which strikes me as weird. There's no followup to the discussion there.
I don't like Sonic asking Beer to provide empirical evidence as to whether overexplaining is a legitimate scumtell or not and then going on to say that Beer's arguments are all just him calling him bad at the game. That doesn't really seem to line up IMO.
I really hate the amount of effort he put into explaining his townlean on me.
I would literally be shocked if everything in #286 were thoughts that he'd had from reading me before. It feels a lot more like justification afterwards to try and satisfy me rather than just trying to explain the read.
@Sonic
, why did you put so much effort into explaining a townlean rather than just saying what you remembered about me being town or just saying that it was gut and calling it a day?
Also, why did you posture about lynching Ricastle before Beer when you were never even voting Ricastle?
Also also, why did you vote for Raging Bull? Talk about that.
The buddying on Bins is really really blatant and I have no idea what to make of it.
Sleeptimesnow.
BeerISODive will probably come Sunday if not tomorrow morning.
This is a really good post, but I did want to touch on the efforting part. Efforting often isn't alignment indicative. But, I can see a case for efforting on a townread being more indicative of scum than efforting on a scumread. I think it's a good idea to figure out why Sonic X was efforting on you.
In post 678, Cheetory6 wrote:Finished Sonic X ISOdive.
Hard to follow a linear progression through the whole thing, but I kind of expected that tbh. q.q
He talks about believing vezok's claims of Beer scumclaiming at the start, but then there's a lot more focus on trying to discredit Beer's arguments towards him vs discussing that afterwards which strikes me as weird. There's no followup to the discussion there.
I don't like Sonic asking Beer to provide empirical evidence as to whether overexplaining is a legitimate scumtell or not and then going on to say that Beer's arguments are all just him calling him bad at the game. That doesn't really seem to line up IMO.
I really hate the amount of effort he put into explaining his townlean on me.
I would literally be shocked if everything in #286 were thoughts that he'd had from reading me before. It feels a lot more like justification afterwards to try and satisfy me rather than just trying to explain the read.
@Sonic
, why did you put so much effort into explaining a townlean rather than just saying what you remembered about me being town or just saying that it was gut and calling it a day?
Also, why did you posture about lynching Ricastle before Beer when you were never even voting Ricastle?
Also also, why did you vote for Raging Bull? Talk about that.
The buddying on Bins is really really blatant and I have no idea what to make of it.
Sleeptimesnow.
BeerISODive will probably come Sunday if not tomorrow morning.
if i justified my townread on you as "you look townie" more people would be bitching
cant please everyone
Why are you trying to please everyone? The Sonic I've known so far isn't worried about that.
Spoiler: Sonic X 2
In post 682, Sonic X wrote:ricastle did one very scummy thing (a more legit scumtell than cooldog's "oh you are directing night actions"), but most of his stuff otherwise would have been ok. i have a method for dealing with these kind of people
policy vote on raging bull
Ricastle is town. If you think ika only rages as town, why policy lynch our slot? Wouldn't a better thing to do be to ignore it or request we replace out and find scum instead?
In post 677, Ricastle wrote:Hey Skybird. Is there anyone you'd like to vote?
Right now the people I'm willing to vote for are Beer, Marquis, and Ra9in9Bull. These are the three scummiest to me.
VOTE: Marquis
His posting is mostly fluff and his push on me feels opportunistic.
How does it feel opportunistic? I usually use opportunistic to mean an opportunistic reason to hop on an already existing wagon. Do you mean Marquis' case is trumped up and BS? If so, how?
In post 695, Cheetory6 wrote:The only thing I got out of a Beer ISOdive was that I dislike the way that Pawtucket threw Gordington under the bus for his play early on, but I'm not sure if I just think it's bullshit to treat a hydra partner like that in the open like that or if it feels like a scum gambit to try and ease the suspicion on their slot by being like "oh man look the good head is here to be not scummy now".
yeah this was my initial feeling, like a variation on the amished tell
thing is i've been trying to discern which alignment would be more likely to actually go through with it -
- and i'm aware this might not make sense to some but the lack of hydra partner respect/general ego thing makes me think it's a newer player (in the vein of vonflare/elusive/etc. with limited... skills in that social regard), who also likely wasn't aware of the amished tell being a thing, and thus would not be likely to hesitate with those comments as scum
i mean
pls tell me u see where i went with that
This could be jumping to assumptions (newer hydra, amished tell for replacing used for hydras), but it's also Marquis actually trying to actually figure out why one of Beer's heads is being apologetic for another.
I dont see why more people dont see you as scum here. Yes this contradicts wgeurtz but out of all the fluffiest posts that have been posted, this was by far the fluffiest and most unnecessary
Can you explain to us the delineation between trolly/fluffy being scummy, and too trolly to be scum?
Actually, I read your scum game Marquis linked, and I agree. You actually over-tryharded IMO. See post 99, 144, 148, etc. Also, you were super careful to address specific people in many of your posts compared to the town game, where you were only more careful at the end.
I'm a bit torn here, because I've seen fluff posting and a more carefree attitude ("if you are town knock it off dude"), but I've also seen you've been pretty good with the specifically addressing people.
Post
Post #963 (isolation #52) » Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:06 am
Postby Ra9in9 Bull »
In post 949, TunnelWarriors wrote:I dont see why more people dont see you as scum here. Yes this contradicts wgeurtz but out of all the fluffiest posts that have been posted, this was by far the fluffiest and most unnecessary
Scum Ricastle was super aggressive and serious in my only experience with him.
Post
Post #965 (isolation #53) » Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:32 am
Postby Ra9in9 Bull »
@Tunnel - I'm trying to understand if your two heads are intentionally contradicting, or what?
Have you moved all the way to town on beer now from your vote of him earlier? What about Vezok (I note you were hesitant to vote Beer because Vezok wouldn't paraphrase), do you think he's being unhelpful town, or scummy for not paraphrasing and trying to push a mislynch by saying Beer claimed scum in their PT?
Why are your heads contradicting each other on Ricastle?
How come you are suspecting two people (Ricastle and Trench) that you are sharing a wagon with on Radmann?
In post 965, Ra9in9 Bull wrote:@Tunnel
...
How come you are suspecting two people (Ricastle and Trench) that you are sharing a wagon with on Radmann?
@Trench
With marquis joining you, that's now three people you are suspecting sharing a wagon with you. Are you reconsidering the Radmann wagon now that three of your scumreads have joined you? Or are you reconsidering your scumread of the other three?
Where? Last I saw you said marquis was fluff posting. Did you mean that made him town? Couldn't find where you townread Trench.
Also please keep in mind that even if radman flips town day 1 (it's possible) we still get a lot of associative tells due to the sheer amount of resistance this wagon has recieved.
Still feel this way now that Radmann has been replaced by Replaced?