Guild of Dungeoneering Mafia (Game Over)

[Shazam]

/confirm

[Shazam]

VOTE: Muffin
The man.
The legend.

[Shazam]

Post 128 is a great post. VOTE: TriforceP

^ if only it were so easy. But it's not, and Triforce's posts and vote and lack of unvote thereafter isn't condemnation worthy apart from it being a waste of an RVS vote.

This seems to be saying that because it's early in the game, nobody can have a good reason for voting someone. Do you not think we have to start somewhere? If you do think we have to start somewhere, why would you be criticizing instead of helping to put pressure on?

[Shazam]

@mod

Post 128 is a great post. VOTE: TriforceP

^ if only it were so easy. But it's not, and Triforce's posts and vote and lack of unvote thereafter isn't condemnation worthy apart from it being a waste of an RVS vote.

This seems to be saying that because it's early in the game, nobody can have a good reason for voting someone. Do you not think we have to start somewhere? If you do think we have to start somewhere, why would you be criticizing instead of helping to put pressure on?

I should be voting Triforce.

[Shazam]

If multiple people are millers for being on the Stupid tree, then we might be able to predict future types of powers/actions.

This sounds entirely plausible. We could tree claim and work out what type role everyone is.

For your next trick, please explain how this benefits the town.

Mainly locking scum into more defined roles that way they can't fake claim to victory.

You think the mod has set a game up where locking in scum to more defined roles will help us catch them in a significant way?

[Shazam]

I can't say I know what Kindness is getting at, but I can say that vezok's responses seem overly guarded. It's almost as if there's something he really doesn't want to admit, but he feels he has to sort of play along. But maybe it's just that I don't really agree with him.

[Shazam]

Triforce, i've address my post count as much as I care too.

Holy shit guys, really? Like are ya'll really taking the bait Vahlen has out on BPC?

278 You want to do something about BPC lurking (Heartless is VLA), then why don't we fucking do something about it?

VOTE: BPC

That should get him to engage the fucking game.

I'm still frustrated as fuck but people are giving Firebringer a noob pass for outright scummy behavior which is just going to encourage him to play dumb and vote obvious town like Yos.

What the fuck is this?

You defend/ignore/make excuses for heartless as VLA, but not BPC? Who's VLA for two more days? Heartless' ends today, but BPC needs votes?

Okay. Can we lynch the Doctor now?

K. VOTE: Doctor Vahlen

[Shazam]

Busy day yesterday.

But for real lets get this Shazam wagon on the road. He disappeared as soon I started pressuring him.

I'm down for a turbolynch I guess.

Let's do Shazam.

I feel shitty if I were to lynch BPC while he is on VLA

Seriously? Can't believe nobody else noticed this. VOTE: Oversoul

I'm not opposed to a Dom lynch, because I know he's not a helpful townie whatever he is. But I'd rather find someone I'm more confident is scum. This clear double standard that caused Oversoul to try to get me lynched before I can say anything is scum motivated.

[Shazam]

Busy day yesterday.

But for real lets get this Shazam wagon on the road. He disappeared as soon I started pressuring him.

I'm down for a turbolynch I guess.

Let's do Shazam.

I feel shitty if I were to lynch BPC while he is on VLA

Seriously? Can't believe nobody else noticed this. VOTE: Oversoul

I'm not opposed to a Dom lynch, because I know he's not a helpful townie whatever he is. But I'd rather find someone I'm more confident is scum. This clear double standard that caused Oversoul to try to get me lynched before I can say anything is scum motivated.

Were you on V/LA? If you were I apologize, I did not notice it.

No, I did not state a V/LA for that time, but

you knew I was gone for a significant period of time, and even drew attention to it

. Then you said that a turbolynch of me was fine, but a turbolynch of someone else you knew wasn't around was not fine.

@Yosarian2
I would like your thoughts on this exchange.

[Shazam]

He attacked you, then you started lurking, so then he became more aggressive towards you. That's pretty much what you'd expect, IMHO; you never stop attacking someone just because they stop posting.

If anything, I thought that your response to him was kind of scummy. Looked like you were OMGUSing him for pretty reasonable scumhunting behavior.

Even your opinion of how scummy things are aside, this is not a very good description of what happened. It's an interesting thing to file away though, so I'm glad I asked.

[Shazam]

424 VOTE: Shazam

Usually when town come across a misrepresentation (either deliberate of accidental), they don't file it away for later.

What exactly do you expect me to do? Vote him? That makes no sense, since he would only be scummy from the post I was quoting if the person I'm already voting (Oversoul) is scum. First things first.

@ ActionDan
Would you say that you are voting me for reasons described in your last post? Or are you keeping your reasons to yourself?

[Shazam]

424 VOTE: Shazam

Usually when town come across a misrepresentation (either deliberate of accidental), they don't file it away for later.

What exactly do you expect me to do? Vote him? That makes no sense, since he would only be scummy from the post I was quoting if the person I'm already voting (Oversoul) is scum. First things first.

Why, exactally, do you think oversoul is scum?

He is inconsistent and opportunistic. I have already explained this.

Since Shazam is getting attention at the moment, I ISO'd him first.

Either a lazy confirmation-biased townie, or scum. ISO'ing the biggest wagon to go looking for scummy stuff is a sure-fire way to mislynch.

The difference here is you didn't state you were on V/LA. Most people would think that you were avoiding the thread, not V/LA since it wasn't announced. So I can understand Oversoul's concern about you.

But Oversoul assumed what he WANTED to be the case, and wanted to turbolynch me while giving someone else the benefit of the doubt. He did so because he saw an opportunity for a mislynch in my case that he didn't see elsewhere.

You asked for Yos' opinion on the exchange and then you brush it aside because you don't like what he says. I think a vote on Shazam is a good place to start.

VOTE: Shazam

I did not brush it aside. I disagreed with it. Believe it or not, the fact that I ask a question does not waive my right to disagree with the answer. It was important information for me to gather.

[Shazam]

I agree you have a right to disagree with his answer. But you stated it wasn't a good description of the exchange and then said you'd file the info away. You didn't explain what you disagreed with. That's why I said you brushed his opinion aside. What info did you gather from his reply?

I disagreed with basically the entirety of what he said. But it doesn't do any good to try to "explain" it. You have two analyses of the situation, now decide which one is correct. Yosarian says I started lurking after being attacked and that my response was scummy because it was just OMGUS for reasonable behavior. I say I had a busy day, and even though Oversoul knew I was not around, he wanted to turbolynch me while making excuses for someone else who was gone at the same time. It doesn't do much good to say any more than "this is not true" when I've already expressed what I think.

I've already said what info I gathered. Yosarian is, imo, defending Oversoul in an illogical fashion. This means that if Oversoul flips scum, I would think Yosarian is scum too.

Based on this post, which basically brings up questions that have already been answered, I would assess Skybird as lazy town, not scum for joining the biggest wagon.

[Shazam]

Shazam, do you understand what lurking is? That is what you were doing prior to me asking for a turbolynch on you.

Yes I understand what lurking is. No, that is not what I was doing, and it is not the word you used to describe what I was doing. You said I "disappeared", which is a very different thing. You are waffling, like you did when questioned on your desire to turbolynch me.

I'm down for a turbolynch I guess.

Let's do Shazam.

I feel shitty if I were to lynch BPC while he is on VLA

I didn't mean we would instantly lynch, but just that if the possibility did happen.

In another universe it already has!

The second post is a contradiction of the first, and the reasoning for it doesn't make sense. I can't even tell what you're saying, much less how it's a reason to take back what you said before. The fact that you have not already been voted by others for this is appalling, and a sign that some have a special motivation to not see you under pressure.

[Shazam]

Yes I understand what lurking is. No, that is not what I was doing, and it is not the word you used to describe what I was doing. You said I "disappeared", which is a very different thing. You are waffling, like you did when questioned on your desire to turbolynch me.

Are you really going to pick at straws here between the words "disappeared" and "lurking"?

Either way you conveniently dropped your vote on a large wagon and then CONVENIENTLY did not post for a while.

While you're here, again, are you an alt? I don't believe you answered me initially.

First you ask me if I understand the definition of a word, then you have a problem when I use that definition. They mean different things. Deal with it.
The lack of an answer to that question is intentional.

The second post is a contradiction of the first, and the reasoning for it doesn't make sense. I can't even tell what you're saying, much less how it's a reason to take back what you said before. The fact that you have not already been voted by others for this is appalling, and a sign that some have a special motivation to not see you under pressure.

That post was not even addressed to you, or even ABOUT you.

It was me discussing my feelings of guilt over lynching BPC who I thought was on V/LA at the time when people were suggesting we turbolynch someone.

Explanation understood. The use of pronouns in that exchange was hard to follow. However, your phrasing here is kind of weird. "Guilt over lynching BPC"? Hmmm...

shazam you were defo active lurking when I said that you were on the list!

you did "disappear" IMO

does this mean overly is town. cos I am going to throw party if so.

No idea what you're talking about. What even is "the list" you keep referring to? Also, no, this would not mean overly is town under any circumstances. Why are you searching for any possible reason to call him town?

PEdit:

Shazam, you do realize I've been in the game less than 24 hours right? At least give me a couple of days before you start calling me lazy.

I'll call you lazy if you're acting lazy. I do not mean lazy in terms of time put into the game, I mean lazy in terms of rigorous thinking, and logic behind votes.
Though I don't know if he was being sarcastic, the description of you as lazy was called generous.

[Shazam]

Yosarian says I started lurking after being attacked and that my response was scummy because it was just OMGUS for reasonable behavior. I say I had a busy day, and even though Oversoul knew I was not around, he wanted to turbolynch me while making excuses for someone else who was gone at the same time. It doesn't do much good to say any more than "this is not true" when I've already expressed what I think.

1. Maybe you had a busy day, but clearly none of us can know that. We can only go by what happens in the thread.

2. I think you're taking the "turbolynch" comment a little too seriously. Nobody gets quicklynched out of nowhere in a large game; it really doesn't happen. I think it's probably more accurate to view oversoul's comments a series of increasingly aggressive attacks against to, designed to try and get a reaction.



I mean, look at that pattern. Pretty textbook case of trying to ramp up pressure against you, step by step, because he suspects you and wants to get a reaction from you. He stars with a naked vote, then he moves up to "I encourage people to look at Shazam", then he ramps it up to "Let's get this Shazam wagon on the road", and then he ramps it up to "let's turbolynch Shazam."

Very textbook scum-hunting behavior, with a step by step series of increasingly aggressive posts build up pressure on a suspect to make him react. It all looks totally normal to me. And it looks like it worked, since you finally responded to it.

(And by the way, I wasn't trying to "defend" oversoul; I have a mildly town read on him at the moment, but he's not in any real danger right now and there's really nothing to defend against. But read it how you want.)

But enough about oversoul, because that doesn't tell me much about your alignment. Tell me, who else do you suspect? Who do you think is town? What do you think about the 2 big wagons we've had, on triforce and dom?

1. And by what happens in the thread people have ASSUMED that it's because I'm scum and care too much about getting voted. Even though I explicitly said that I had a busy day.
2. This is a very clear case of you trying to defend Oversoul. You are inserting meaning into his post that is non-serious, even though he himself did not do this.

It looks like his increasingly aggressive posts worked because I finally responded to it? Isn't that an example of it working as LITTLE as possible? I didn't respond until well into the chain of posts (again, because I was busy). What was I going to do, completely ignore all of his posts about me when I got back? That's really ignorant.

[Shazam]

znitzy, espy wants you to unvote and reccaliberate. can at least 1 of you do that? cos it seems weird that you guys are agreeing with him but not doing what he is politely asking you to do.

Fine. UNVOTE:

[Shazam]

I'm still trying to get a handle on this game and pull together my reads list. We have 8 days so we don't have to rush anything here. More later, after dinner.

Yeah, still pretty sure he's not scum.

I took a serious look at the situation as it has developed, and considered voting Yosarian because he still looks like he doesn't really believe what he's saying and just wants to defend Oversoul. But it still doesn't make sense to me to lynch Yos first when we could find out for sure if there's anything wrong with defending Oversoul.
I considered voting Skybird, but you can see my last couple of posts about him. I'm pretty sure he's town.
Oversoul is the one who has led the rest of the wagoners in twisting even my level of activity at specific times into a reason to call me scum. There is no warrant for taking my actions the way he and others have taken them, and it is an opportunistic attempt at a lynch. You may call it whatever you like (PV called it OMGUS) but with the number of people on my wagon, at least one of them is very likely scum, and it's Oversoul leading the way for the worst aspects of the wagon.

VOTE: Oversoul

[Shazam]

Molla reads town to me, I don't like this counter wagon, I don't like how much resistance the Shazam wagon is meeting given none of his responses to pressure look remotely town, and Oversoul's vote being stolen looks like a direct attempt to further subvert the wagon on him.

Again, this is a sheep construing anything and everything happening as some sort of indication that I'm scum. My wagon has not met resistance before now, and in fact a large number of people INCLUDING YOURSELF have joined it with basically no reasoning. Why does his vote being stolen look like that? Why doesn't it look to you like scum trying to clear Oversoul? Or scum trying to make you think exactly what you're thinking? It's like you aren't putting any effort into this at all...
What counter wagon are you referring to? The Skybird wagon? If that's supposed to divert attention from my wagon, why have I publicly announced my distaste for it?

[Shazam]

@ Xtoxm
I see now that you're probably referring to the Molla wagon. I've taken no interest in that either. Molla's probably town.

[Shazam]

You know when I said that BBMolla is a transparent player? Cause he's transparently town you see. Muffin looks like scum in that exchange using scum tactic after scum tactic to make Molla look bad. My favorite was the constant barage of questions, of which none had a correct answer that would have ever got them out of the exchange. Muffin knew this obviously, hoping he could make Molla look bad by asking BAD QUESTIONS with little to no context.

You know what else is funny? How we are suddenly one of Xtoxm's scumread for no reason...oh wait just kidding there is a reason....because I voted for him last night! It's like magic!

Skybird, Xtoxm, and Muffin are the only players that need to hang this day phase. Here you go Espe, I've narrowed down the lynch pool!

Out of all the posts in the last few pages, this is the most valuable. I disagree with the Skybird choice, but I agree that lynching any of those three will likely end well, either because they are scum or because it will be easier to find scum afterwards. Oversoul can afford to go on the back burner for now, because if he happens to not be scum, I won't learn a lot from his lynch.

VOTE: Xtoxm

[Shazam]

And what do you learn from mislynching me?

This is (probably intentionally) phrased in such a way that there is no good answer. It's like "when will you stop beating your wife?". It's a loaded question fallacy. If you mean to ask "if I flip town, what will you learn?" then I could answer that. However, I would still choose not to, because I don't want to tip off the people whose position in my reads would change based on your lynch.

I assume your silence can be transliterated as "i'm scum and I can't think of a good excuse for the bullshit I just came out with".

This is actually why you should be lynched. You've been one of the primary players who will make anything look like a reason to call me scum. I post and go away for an hour or two and that makes me scum? You don't even believe that. Who sits around refreshing the page and waiting for an answer to their posts? In general, scum who are overly concerned about how their posts look.

[Shazam]

I'm still 100% fine with my vote on Shazam. None of this is making me feel better about him.

We're well aware that nothing would. That's what my wagon's about, in case you missed it.

Bbmolia seems like confident town.

Muffin aggressive town and yosarian fake scum hunting and faking town hard.

After Shazam get Yosorian.

He is also bussing Shazam hard.

Hmmm. You seem not to have considered the possibility that I'm a bad lynch. Perhaps because you KNOW killing me advances your win condition?

And what DOES happen when I flip town if lynched? I would have thought that would make Yosarian seem more scum than anything else. You called what he's doing fake scum hunting. Won't me flipping town fit that bill pretty well? But you think if I were to flip scum that would make him scum too. Seems like your plan is to get both of us lynched, and you're coming up with reasons to make that happen.

I'm seeing Xtoxm/Oversoul/Firebringer as a 2-out-of-3 scum deal.

[Shazam]

This game is 33 pages long, and I've posted a ton of times. And you're just going to say "gut"? Can you even, maybe, point to a specific post that supposedly gave you this "gut" feeling? You got anything?

So you can appear less scummy to me?
No

Between this and Skybird...I can understand how some townies got on my wagon. Because they don't use their heads. Come on..."I have a gut feeling, but I'm not going to explain how it came about or when, just trust me guys." How would you ever convince anyone if you were the ones starting a wagon? No, you're only capable of getting anyone lynched by jumping on a pre-existing wagon without significant explanation. So that's what you did.

Look, I'm not going to make any secret about it. As town, I'd rather not be a deadline lynch. We've got 4 days, and by recent posting rates, that isn't an awful lot of posts. Find someone we can agree on, preferably not me. Out of the people with multiple votes, I'd cooperate with a muffin or Xtoxm wagon, or maybe a Molla wagon in a pinch. Skybird and myself are off limits.

[Shazam]

.

Molla-Muffin:
Calling someone scum because they don't scumhunt according to your definition or the same way you do isn't very effective.
If you disagree with a scumread, explain instead why you think they are town. That gives the other person something to look and compare, and may help them explain something more than gut.

So much this. I hate flame wars, however tame they may be.

Hmm.. Thinking about it now, I think I misplayed the lack of vote thing

Why would you post something like this without explaining it? How did you misplay it? What would be the correct play?

[Shazam]

I can't decide if it is antitown to reveal it or not... The possibility, albeit minute one, exists where it could happen again in this game. Still mulling it over

OK, well don't reveal it if you don't think it would help town, but I maintain my disbelief that it made any sense to start talking about it in the first place if you weren't going to say more.

But when you say the possibility exists where it could happen again, I don't know what you mean. Didn't some people already say that they could do such a thing, including you?

[Shazam]

OK, I consider the people who have been voting muffin to be town, and after quite some time, nobody I think has a good chance of being scum has piled on. I think that makes the odds pretty good.
VOTE: muffin

[Shazam]

With about 12 hours left, we mainly need to lynch someone. I don't necessarily buy Heartless's claim because I think scum would have claims similar to town roles, but even if I did buy it, it's not a terribly town-sided role from what I can tell.

VOTE: Heartless

[Shazam]

Yos why are you voting Shazam

Look at his posts since tuesday or so. As soon as his wagon started to fade, he faded into the background and his content got really, really dodgy. I really think he's scum; he makes a lot more sense then the other major wagons, anyway.

Have you stopped and thought about why that might be? I have two scumreads: Oversoul and Xtoxm. I couldn't get enough support to lynch either of them, and they haven't provided much content if any in the time you're talking about. I saw muffin and Heartless as decent wagons, but neither of those went anywhere (in Heartless's case, simply because they claimed). There really hasn't been anything to say, because everyone is either not posting or unvoting for bad reasons. I just want to lynch a non-townread and move on at this point.

VOTE: Oversoul

[Shazam]

When I flip town I hope you all go after fucking Shazam seeing as he now conveniently rejoined my wagon after finding me town.
Been busy so I couldn't contribute this past week like I wanted!

Citation really, really needed. Finding you town?

[Shazam]

I read Oversoul in isolation, and frankly I don't see what would be so suspicious about him. There are some posts there about losing his vote, but I don't see why that would make him scum, if anything his confusion about it seems townish. If anyone has an actual case against him, I've yet to find it. So, as surprised as I am to agree with Firebringer, I think both our wagons are on town. I guess I would vote either one to avoid no lynch, and time is rapidly running out.

Can anyone tell me what's wrong with this post.

We're gonna get so much info out of these wagons today, I'm p excited.

Do you mean that he's willing to vote townies? I noticed that, but didn't find it particularly worth mentioning.

[Shazam]

vezokpiraka (1): Doctor Vahlen

An OMGUS vote because "someone vanillaised you"? Or was it with no reasoning? I can't tell.

Anyway, I have additional role-related reasons for believing that BBMolla is town and Xtoxm is scum. I don't wish to say anything further at this time.

VOTE: Xtoxm

[Shazam]

Uh....please ignore the quote in the above post. No idea what that's about. The post was directed at Xtoxm.

[Shazam]

PV: I expressed much suspicion of Znit yesterday, shazam is likely town due to interactions with Oversoul, Znit is not, so Znit is now my top suspect.

re: DGB, that was actually an attempt to wifom people into not killing DGB N1. Like i'd have vigged DGB lol. I am not and was not a vig. I did have other abilities which were lost last night though.

Actually, as i've lost them, presumably to scum, I may as well claim it.

I lost my coat of thorns. It gave me abilites in growth and armour.

My armour ability was bulletproof. My growth ability was to rekindle a vote on someone who had lost a vote. I chose not to use it on Oversoul incase I was wrong about him! Glad I didn't, now.

This looks like a really scummy item to have. Bulletproof to cancel the town vigs, growth to cancel the town vote stealers. It looks like you are a specialist in stopping town PRs to me.

Might as well admit at this point that Oversoul was right about one thing. I did steal his vote. So not scum on scum, and also not bad town play. You can't really argue with the results.

[Shazam]

Hey, my role related reasons could be considered weak. It's certainly up to you what you want to do with that information. About Yosarian, though, I think he could be scum, but not the same team as Oversoul. Look at the interactions between the two on my wagon. Too openly buddy-buddy for scum on the same team, imo.

[Shazam]

Hey, my role related reasons could be considered weak. It's certainly up to you what you want to do with that information. About Yosarian, though, I think he could be scum, but not the same team as Oversoul. Look at the interactions between the two on my wagon. Too openly buddy-buddy for scum on the same team, imo.

so you have reason to believe it is multiball?

by the way we are voting veegee for role related reasons, we don't have a guilty but molla was wonderful in supplying enough info that I am pretty sure veegee is scum unless some1 can come up with a better idea.

I have no more reason to believe it is multiball than the setup size. I've already said that my role (and what I did with it) gives me the picture that Xtoxm is scum, but I could be wrong.

And that is also good enough for me. VOTE: veegee

[Shazam]

Xtoxm is definitely more like "I'm town so your logic must be wrong." (scum/bad defense) than he is like "Your logic is wrong, because...." (town/good defense). Needless to say, this has not convinced me that I'm incorrect about him, but I get the sense that Kindness might have more solid information than I do.

[Shazam]

@znitzchel
I agree, but now is not the time to do that.

[Shazam]

Someone vanillaised me.

Actually, as i've lost them, presumably to scum, I may as well claim it.

I lost my coat of thorns. It gave me abilites in growth and armour.

My armour ability was bulletproof. My growth ability was to rekindle a vote on someone who had lost a vote. I chose not to use it on Oversoul incase I was wrong about him! Glad I didn't, now.

I just realized that these things are, as far as I could know, contradictory. From what I've heard from everyone (and this is certainly the case for me) losing an item is not the same as being vanillaised. I don't know if this really says anything about alignment, as scum might have the exact same situation. But it's something to keep in mind.

[Shazam]

I started with 9 abilities

nine

and you think I really put deep thought into my role NAME?

No and you shouldn't cuz that's just dumb flavor who the fuck cares. You got shot and didn't die therefore you're bulletproof. You don't wanna SAY you're bulletproof tho cuz then people will be like "ayyyy Q's shitty posting + voting record + bulletproof + zito's got some shit on this guy let's kill him" and then your team is down 2 in 2 days amirite

This is actually very important. I have reason to believe that nobody is bulletproof without knowing it. Furthermore, they know exactly WHEN they are bulletproof. Even though Xtoxm botched his claim in multiple ways and Veegee supposedly is scum for role-related reasons, I think someone I have a good reason to believe is lying is the best lynch for today.

VOTE: Quaroath

[Shazam]

So your theory is vote the guy that you think is lying for reasons you can't substantiate because easy wagon?

Gotcha.

Depends on what you mean by "reasons you can't substantiate". If you mean the reasons aren't real you're wrong. If you mean I'm not going to talk about those reasons any more than I have already, you're right and there's nothing about about doing what I did.

Okay, I now know why I wasn't scorched. That makes sense.

Also, the people votinget me... why don't you ask the other guy with the same role name if he's explicitly bp before passing judgment on me not being sure. Might be a good idea.

You are being insanely over-defensive. YOU failed to understand your role correctly if you are now telling the truth. We had good reason to vote you if you gave us the impression that you were lying because you didn't understand your role. However, I'm inclined to believe you.

VOTE: Veegee

[Shazam]

I have asked questions. Just haven't gotten answers that are clear.

Oh come on.

I mean, look. Ok, these roles are confusing. I get that, I have one, I had several back-and-forths with Dram when I replaced in asking wtf any of this means, INCLUDING the question "hey I'm town right?" Thing is, at least for me, my role has very clear "do X and Y happens" in it, I just needed an explanation on how Y worked and how Y interacted with other things. I can't fathom how you could reach Day 2 and not have your role cleared up, and I ABSOLUTELY don't get these pirouettes (holy shit I spelled that right) you're doing about being BP or not. To me it's p clear that you're caught and you don't know what to claim so you're just pulling shit out of thin air and hoping for the best. If I were King Of Guild Of Dungeoneering Mafia (why am I not King of Guild Of Dungeoneering Mafia) you'd dangle now given your prob BPness and we'd just shoot Veegee.

I agree with this except for the part where it's "p clear". This is how I would lean on Quaroath's recent posting, but he could also just be incompetent.

[Shazam]

On hotel WiFi.


Quaroath or Xtoxm needs to die, I don't care which
VOTE: Quaroath

[Shazam]

Sorry for my lack of activity. My internet access is rather uncertain this week.
VOTE: Skybird
His claims about what happened do not make a ton of sense, and like others have said, even if he's telling the truth he could be a mafia watcher type role.
Quaroath's case on mollie looks like scum trying to start his own counterwagon to be honest. There's no scum motivation in looking like a complete idiot by remembering something and then immediately saying you forgot it.

[Shazam]

I don't really care about the accusations about me, and fuck me for it, but I'M SO HAPPY ZITO IS DEAD.

You and me both!

Fwiw have a solid town read on Quar.

Skybird wagon is a thing? It's the best of the viable wagons today, I suppose. Is there any case against her?

This waffling on Skybird by my other scumread makes me more certain both are scum.

[Shazam]

I know people don't like setup speculation, but I just want to throw out there that a scum roleblocker would make an awful lot of sense to me.

[Shazam]

Us smart townies figured out by now that roles probably mean jack fucking shit in this game

I still think skybird is scum I don't understand vezoks turnaround

One question. Do you think this game is completely unbalanced?

[Shazam]

Us smart townies figured out by now that roles probably mean jack fucking shit in this game

I still think skybird is scum I don't understand vezoks turnaround

One question. Do you think this game is completely unbalanced?

no

but I think roles and alignments are irrelevant and probably randomized

except for maybe a couple

Well those couple are still important. As soon as any of it is non-random, you can make a case that a particular role is the non-random one. I do not think it is a bad idea to point out that Skybird's role would be exactly what scum would need to balance out the town roles that I know about.

[Shazam]

Everyone needs to read my iso #8, 9, 12, and 15. You should see a pattern developing. There were three people who, in their own ways, were trying to push my lynch and opposing my counter-reasoning against Oversoul. Two of them have flipped scum.

VOTE: Yosarian2

Notice that he didn't vote Skybird yesterday, and was on the second half of the Oversoul wagon, right next to Skybird. It all adds up to me.

[Shazam]

We're back at last. The thread has been unlocked for hours, but I've had to wait for the start of day post.

There were three people who, in their own ways, were trying to push my lynch and opposing my counter-reasoning against Oversoul. Two of them have flipped scum.

VOTE: Yosarian2

No.

I believe you are town, and I believe this makes sense to you, but not to me. Your case against Oversoul was irrational, and opposing it does not make anyone scum. He was scum, but that does not mean you were right, only lucky.

You accused Oversoul of using a double standard because he defended Bipolar but not you. However, Bipolar had declared V/LA. You had not. You had said nothing about being away. How could Oversoul or anyone else have known you were busy? From our point of view, the assumption that you were lurking under pressure was completely legitimate and reasonable. Your case against Oversoul for making that assumption when he could not possibly have known better was terrible, and had I been in the game then I would have said so. Yosarian did say so, and I have no problem with that.

The double standard was not all there was to the Oversoul case. I am not just lucky, as you would see if you followed me for a while as town. Most importantly, you don't seem to understand that the assumption I was lurking under pressure was just that: an assumption. Assumptions are never legitimate and they are never reasonable. They are entirely apart from reason, that is what makes them assumptions. As I recall (feel free to prove me wrong) Yosarian was the only one saying that as Oversoul was being voted and eventually lynched. Even if it was a reasonable defense of Oversoul (and I think it wasn't) isn't it suspicious that Yosarian was the one defending him? And what of the fact that he claimed to be in support of a Skybird lynch, but never did anything to make sure it happened? This inconsistent approach to Oversoul and Skybird is exactly what I would expect from a scum partner.

Okay, here goes.

Yesterday I had another reason for wanting to hammer Skybird besides believing she had stolen my Winged Staff and wanting it back. I thought it was at least as important to find out what other items she had. If she had stolen from me she had probably stolen before, and looting a stolen item from her would enable me to confirm its original owner. Since she had been scorched I believed she had robbed Quaroath, which would have made him almost certain town. After she claimed I was unsure if she had in fact stolen from me, and as it turned out I did not get what I expected. What I got from Skybird was even better.

Skybird had my missing Winged Staff and

nothing else

.

Why is this better you may ask? If Skybird only had my item and none of her own, it means she had been robbed by someone else. This means we can confirm two players instead of just one, at least as long as there is only one scum faction. I believe that one of us has stolen both the Coat of Thorns from Xtoxm and the Mage Robe from Skybird, which she had stolen from Quaroath. I do not know who it is, but it is enough to know that he exists. And it gets even better. Remember that the Coat of Thorns makes its wearer bulletproof? As for me and Quaroath, while we are not bulletproof, we have Fire Shield. That makes three town players scum will not be able to nightkill.

I think I just broke the game. Unless there is another scum faction or serial killer or something, I don't think there is any way we can lose.

You're wrong about this too. On multiple counts.

[Shazam]

So what players are you townblocking with your theory?

I don't understand this question.

[Shazam]

Assumptions are never legitimate and they are never reasonable.

Now you're being ridiculous. Sorting out assumptions that don't make sense from those that do is the very essence of scumhunting. By your logic, your own case against Yosarian is irreasonable because it is based on the assumption that only scum could have disagreed with you about Oversoul.

Why would it be suspicious for Yosarian to defend Oversoul? You are the one who asked for his opinion. Anyone else would have told you your case was irrational.

You're wrong about this too. On multiple counts.

Unless you can back this statement up with reasons, it will be ignored.

Well I guess you absolutely do not understand the word assumption. No I am not assuming that only scum could have disagreed with me about Oversoul. Not only is that a horrible misrepresentation of my case, but even if that were my entire case, I would be voting based on probabilities. The idea that scum often defend their partners despite the evidence is not an assumption, but rather a generality based on observation of human nature and actions. This means it is not always true, but that does not make it an assumption.


I asked for his opinion because he was already indicating resistance to my case. Saying "anyone else would have told you" is pointless. That's something we can never know. What we can know is what Yosarian has actually done this game, and nobody has actually defended against the very clear relationship between his voting pattern and those of the flipped scum.


As pertains to the second quote, you can obviously choose to ignore it because I don't want to say more, but that is either ignorant or scummy. You know why I didn't give any reasons, and you either don't want to give up your crackpot, incorrect theory because you came up with it, or you are trying to get information out of me that I don't want to give you. I said what I said so that nobody would base their actions on bad information. If you want to continue to do so, that's your call.

[Shazam]

Two can play the meaning game.

"The idea that scum often lurk and avoid the thread while under pressure is not an assumption, but rather a generality based on observation of human nature and actions."

No matter how you try to argue this you will never convince anyone. Voting someone for lurking while they are on V/LA is not okay, but voting someone who is lurking for no apparent reason is perfectly fine. This is commonly accepted on this site. Bipolar had declared V/LA and you had not, which means you were fair game. Your attack on Oversoul was completely irrational, and your case on Yosarian for saying as much is no less irrational.

I don't think your accusation that Yosarian was defending Oversoul has any merit, since you asked him, and Oversoul was in no danger at the time. I don't see Yosarian defending him when he was actually wagoned and lynched.

You know why I didn't give any reasons...

No, I don't. How am I supposed to know, the same way we were supposed to know you were busy?

If two can play the meaning game, you're not one of them. You don't know what lurking means, because saying that I was lurking just from my not posting over the course of a day is an assumption, not a fact. "You had not declared V/LA so you're fair game" is moronic, and it is not difficult to check someone's site activity and conclude that they are not logging onto the site due to real life.
Saying you don't know why I would tell you that your guesses about the setup and night actions are incorrect is equally moronic. You do know why I would tell you this in a general sense.

[Shazam]

VOTE: Quaroath

[Shazam]

VOTE: DGB
Don't buy the backpedaling, and Feysal does. Good enough for me.

[Shazam]

Hate to say it after such a bad exchange with me, but Feysal has convinced me.

Vote: Firebringer

[Shazam]

Also, having refreshed my memory on this game, my iso's 22 and 23 are good posts for others to read. I'm pretty sure Firebringer is part of the scum team.

[Shazam]

Yosarian, I need an explanation of why an action targeting you would have failed.

[Shazam]

Yosarian, I need an explanation of why an action targeting you would have failed.

I'm not untargatable, as far as I know. What kind of action was it?

Yeah, no. Then did someone roleblock me? I expect a claim from such a person at this point, considering it would clear them.

[Shazam]

Yos if I can have a moment, what is the source of your miller thing?

I have an item that makes me look like scum.

You're going to have to claim more about that item. If you don't, I'm going to be voting you until you do. I have a very good reason to believe you're lying, but you might be able to convince me otherwise.

VOTE: Yosarian2

[Shazam]

Yos if I can have a moment, what is the source of your miller thing?

I have an item that makes me look like scum.

You're going to have to claim more about that item. If you don't, I'm going to be voting you until you do. I have a very good reason to believe you're lying, but you might be able to convince me otherwise.

VOTE: Yosarian2

Specifically, I have a bottle of fairy tears, and apparenly it's bad to make faries cry or something.

Really I'm confused anyone would suspect me at this point; I'd have assumed that anyone who's paying attention would know my role by now, and It's pretty confirmed by mod actions.

Yeah, you're scum. You are either lying about your item, or not giving me information that it should be very clear that I want. But besides that, you're trying to say that just because the mod confirms your role, you must be town. Using poor reasoning to claim you are town also makes you scum.

[Shazam]

Yeah, you're scum. You are either lying about your item, or not giving me information that it should be very clear that I want.

I am doing neither of those things.

I'm asking you seriously now. You admit you tried to target me with something; I'm assuming you either tried to kill me or roleblock me, although of course you refuse to give details. If you were town, then I'm sure before doing either one of those things you would have at least tried to figure out what my role is.

So, tell me, what, exactally, do you think my role is? You've had about a million clues.

Also, why would you even try to target someone after a now confirmed town said she had an cop innocent on me before she died? I don't know why that happened either, but there's no way you could seriously believe I was scum after that, could you?

And, of course, Firebringer flipping scum makes you look a hell of a lot worse, especially since I've been getting the vibe that the two of you have been working as a team to try to lynch me for quite a long time now.

But never mind all that for right now. Answer the question. What, exactally, do you think my role is?

I would guess from the innocent that you're some type of godfather, or reflexive redirector (the latter makes sense given my experience). But the second- or third-hand information is absolutely unimportant if you are lying to my face. I don't care what your role is if it doesn't hinder me when targeting you. Because that means you're lying. I didn't try to kill you or roleblock you.

[Shazam]

But you sure as hell should care what my role is before you target me. I honestly don't believe that you targeted me without first trying to figure out what my role is. Which means I'm about 80% sure that you already have figured out my role, and are just lying about it now.

I mean, at this point, is there anyone in this game who hasn't figured out my role?

Because that means you're lying. I didn't try to kill you or roleblock you.

If you didn't try to kill me, then absolutely nothing in my role should have affected you at all. Obviously I was not role blocked, since I obviously targeted Feysal last night.

I don't have time to wade through all of your posts, so no, I haven't figure out your role.

Wait, are you saying you investigated me and you got an innocent as well?

Hell if I know. Maybe my item got de-activated or destroyed somehow. I never got a PM saying it got stolen.

This is the important post. This is what I need to know. If you didn't know this, you should have checked before responding to me about your item. I will not buy a "oh, the mod just told me I lost my item, I forgot when you were asking me about my item".
And btw, I don't appreciate the 20 questions about my role. I could say the same thing to you that you've said to me and just pretend you should have figured out my role. I have hinted at it as well.

[Shazam]

This is the important post. This is what I need to know. If you didn't know this, you should have checked before responding to me about your item. I will not buy a "oh, the mod just told me I lost my item, I forgot when you were asking me about my item".

Look, I don't know what kind of role madness is going on, and I don'0t think it matters. There is absolutely no possible logical thought process where you could possible decide "Hey, I got an innocent on Yos, that must mean he's scum".

My role PM was quite clear, by the way. It said I show up scum to investigators because of the item I have. I've sent the mod more questions about it just to see if maybe something weird is going on here. If I "lost the item" or if someone stole it, then I would certanly hope the mod would have told me about it before now, but like I said, I'm asking.

And btw, I don't appreciate the 20 questions about my role.

Well, when you claimed you targeted me and refused to explain why, considering the circumstances, I was assuming you were scum who figured out my role and either tried to nightkill me or roleblock me. Either one of those would have made more sense then this, frankly. I was really not expecting the cop claim, especially because it makes absolutely no sense to waste ANOTHER cop investigation on the same guy who already came up innocent yesterday.

Can anybody else see what's going on here?
a) Responding to my "reflexive redirector" possibility with logic that only refutes a Godfather possibility.
b) Setting up a situation where he can reverse his claim about his item.
c) Fishing hard for my role.

If you can't see these three things and notice that he has a prepared defense that doesn't quite work, a very suspicious item situation, and a sudden inability to talk about my role in general terms, you're missing a lot. Should be obvious what he is.

[Shazam]

Doign a quick reread overnight, but i'm preeety sure I've got a keen idea I want to explore.

Also, I'm town because outting as an RB on you given your claim would be idiotic beyond belief for scum, plus my abilities jive 100% with someone else, and for all the shit about me not knowing my role hands down - including from Feysal - I still - still - knew something about my (our) role Feysal didn't.

Who is "you" and when did you roleblock them?

I still think Yosarian is town.

He is town. I'm not sure why we're trying to wagon him.

Because Shazam is an idiot, obviously.

If he can back up his claim with any evidence he's done any cop investigations before today, then he's likely town, though; "I got an innocent on Yos again so he must be scum" is WAY too stupid to be a fake-claim. There is one possibility where Shazam is still scum, but he should be able to rule that out when he finishes claiming.

I think you're going to regret calling me an idiot when you realize the level of flailing and misinterpretation/misrepresentation you've done in your last few posts. Even more so if you happen to be town somehow.

[Shazam]

I still think Yosarian is town.

I think at the very least, you should be rebutting what I've said about him. He certainly has not done so at all.

[Shazam]

I think you're going to regret calling me an idiot

You're claiming you wasted a cop investigation re-investgating someone that has already been found innocent by another cop, in a situation where because of whatever weird thing is going on with my role wouldn't have given you any real information no matter what result you got.

If you're telling the truth, then you are an idiot. If you're lying you're scum. I'm leaning towards idiot, and as far as you're concerned that's actually the better option.

Still you do need to answer my question. Now that you've claimed you really should share the rest of your results. If you really don't want to do that for some reason, fine, but I need to see some kind of proof from before today that you're a cop (you already claimed you were dropping clues; point them out please).

when you realize the level of flailing and misinterpretation/misrepresentation you've done in your last few posts. Even more so if you happen to be town somehow.

I think it's obvious to everyone but you that I have neither "flailed" nor "misrepresented" anything. I have been pressing you to try and figure out if you're scum or not though.

Since nobody is taking my side in this, it's time to just reveal what I did. This post makes me angry, and if you're scum, you did a good job goading me into saying more. You are the only person I have ever come across who decides out of many options what he thinks the most likely one is, and then goes on for pages talking like that is a fact. WHERE DID I EVER SAY I INVESTIGATED YOU, YOU MORON? I AM NOT A COP. I NEVER SAID I WAS A COP. I NEVER HINTED I WAS A COP. I STEAL FREAKING ITEMS, YOU NINCOMPOOP. YOU JUST DECIDED I WAS PROBABLY A COP, CUZ I DON'T KNOW, COMMON ROLE AND DERP....AND THEN STARTED SPOUTING OFF ABOUT ME BEING A COP. IN SHORT...

I think it's obvious to everyone but you that I have neither "flailed" nor "misrepresented" anything. I have been pressing you to try and figure out if you're scum or not though.

THIS MAY BE THE MOST HILARIOUSLY UNTRUE STATEMENT OF THE GAME.
With that out of the way, I may as well tell you that I couldn't take your item, and you have not claimed anything that would make that the case. Since even a roleblocker SHOULD not have been able to stop me, that means something really suspicious is going on. You didn't claim anything about not having your item anymore, so I figured one of three things was true:
1) You don't have an item, because scum may not have items (someone speculated this when no item turned up from a mafia player).
2) You lost your item, but didn't say so for I don't know what reason.
3) I somehow got messed with, but I did not believe this was really possible.
So that needs explaining. Now I need to catch up.

[Shazam]

By this point it is clear that Shazam is irrational.

"But I would like to make one of the points he has been making for two pages in different words. lol guys."

But Yosarian IS a miller, and that's where your case falls apart a bit.

Would you care to explain? I don't know what this would have to do anything I've said, or how you know this for a fact.

But really you need to relax.

Telling me to relax shows an inability to see things from my perspective. I don't think you would appreciate everyone constantly missing the point of what you're saying because they assumed something and then begun stating it as a fact.



The only thing I gleaned from catching up is that I'd be ok with a PeV lynch. Not thrilled, but ok.

[Shazam]

You know for a fact he is a MILLER, not just GUILTY? I have no idea how you would know that unless you saw he had that particular item, and what the item does. And in that case, I should have been able to steal it.

[Shazam]

Shazam - did you steal my item?

No, but I'm almost sure who did. It's nothing to worry about.



I seriously can't believe this, guys. After I very specifically, very directly questioned Yosarian about his item, he tells me one thing, and after I say I know he's lying, he changes his answer. And he gets a completely free pass for this? No questions asked? He is either so bad that he can't even read his role PM correctly when being asked specifically about it, or he is scum (or both?). I would just ask that people reread our conversation and the reactions to it in light of this.

[Shazam]

VOTE: PeregrineV

[Shazam]

Can we get that PereV lynch done?

Agreed. I don't think Yosarian is scum anymore, just that made two massive mistakes within a day or two irl. So PeV is today's lynch.

[Shazam]

UNVOTE:
I doubt at this point that PeV is the right lynch today, though it is still possible he is scum.

@ PeV
Since you say you know, go ahead and claim what I did N2. Let's see if you really have the role you say you do.

[Shazam]

UNVOTE:
I doubt at this point that PeV is the right lynch today, though it is still possible he is scum.

@ PeV
Since you say you know, go ahead and claim what I did N2. Let's see if you really have the role you say you do.

You used Repel.

This is correct. He is what he says he is. Not that he can't be scum still, but it's good to know he's telling the truth.

[Shazam]

Sorry, guys, I just have too much bad stuff going on in my life to present a good case on anyone as an alternative. I feel like I'm just getting in the way.

@ mod: Please replace me unless you think that you just need warm bodies in slots.

If it's going to be more trouble to find a replacement, then I'll stick it out, but I've felt for probably a week or so that I haven't been doing what I should in this game.

[Shazam]

@mod
Actually things got a lot better irl. I can stay in the game for now.

So, Yosarian, I think I should point out that PeV did not in fact know I was an item thief. The ability he saw me use was something else entirely called Repel. And if he knew what it was, it would actually PREVENT scum from trying to kill me. So the point you're making actually goes the other way. The fact that you don't realize this means you're 100% not partners with PeV. Antihero's also 100% not partners with PeV, because he could have made the same point that I just did if he was. In short, every circumstantial piece of evidence says PeV is not scum. I will do my best to figure out who is tomorrow.

[Shazam]

What post you attribute to me?

Am I the only other one bedsides triforce, not seeing him as scummy?

I made a comment in one of my other posts about you voting me incorrectly because it was Triforce who was voting me. (at a glance your avatars have a similar color palate)

I'm ambivalent about Triforce, he leaves a lot to be desired, as evidence by the wagon on him.

Yes, a wagon that I argued against, and there has still been no rebuttal, 50 posts later, even by the people who led my wagon (though someone mentioned that they'd get to it soon, fingers crossed)

Okay well here's the thing. I thought you were fine until you decided to take an anti-town stance in regards to all the miller claims. That's not critical thinking, that's making an excuse to justify a vote you really don't have any real reason to make.

And no I'm not saying questioning the multiple millers isn't worth it....but you actually aren't doing anything about it. You've been wagoned so far for really bad scum-type voting reasons. Did you even read Yosarian's post? He more or less accused you of that (in many many more words), and rather than answer for it you've been complaining there's been no rebuttal to the defense you came up with. But if I was a player looking to lynch you (and if I didn't have stronger scumreads elsewhere I would) I'd need to see an evolution in your play in order to stop considering you a top scum-suspect. None of your posts indicate any sort of critical thinking meant to find scum. That's where you have gone wrong so far, and if you are town and want that perception to change, you gotta change it.

If you think I'm scum, why? What about my play suggests this? Was my claim bad? Did I do it in a way to suggest I am scum? What about the other wagons, what do you think about them? Which wagons are worth more effort in your opinion? Which ones should dissipate?

If you can't be honest about your thought processes (which so far you really haven't been) no one is going to trust that you're town. I definitely don't trust that because I don't see any real town thought processes coming out of your posts.

So I find this post very odd. He points to a good case on Triforce/Papa Zito, then says the reaction to it is bad, but then gives the slot advice on how to look like the town he is. What explanation does he give for this? He has stronger scumreads elsewhere. Well that's interesting. The only evidence of this in his other posts is his scumread of one player, Dominator, who is an easy mislynch for scum. And what has he said against Dominator? Essentially he has pointed to his posts and said "this is scum guys". So that's more important to him than this post.

Also I literally started this push on like Page 3, let's not pretend it has come out of no where.

His defense against the criticism of the increasing Dominator wagon is that he started it really early.

This new wagon starting to form on Dom is interesting. It's the second time such wagons have formed. The first was on me for my votes on Firebringer and BPC. Then we have a Dom wagon starting for his vote on BBMolla. While Dom's play leaves plenty to be desired, I do think this turn of events should tell us something.

The only thing that could tell that molla might have done an OMGUS. And is that really "bad"? Not abd enough to note like that.

Also anyone not voting for Dom should think about it. Do you see anyone more deserving of hitting scum?

Me and bone did some discussion after I caught up and we both agree that Dom deserves rope. High quality rope.

Anyone who isnt voting him, Do you disagree, And if so why?
-Z

p-edit: the fact that it bit there doesnt really change much. It was true that it did speed up but it was nothing too worrying. And again Doctor who are the scum chainsawing and OMGUSING for each others? Stop being so vague. Because beign that vague is a huge scum-tell ykno.

And then he asks others to give more reason for not voting Dom than he has for voting Dom. Also makes sure we know that "Dom deserves rope". Not that he is actually scum, but that he deserves to die.

The town block has trouble deciding who we want, yet there's a group of people who haven't questioned each other at all who magically all vote together. Their votes all come after other players vote. Yes, call me suspicious. There's no other reason beyond Dom's suddenly scummy now. That's textbook chainsawing and OMGUSing.

And this is where your town game falls apart. I was reading as you as town early on for making some interesting observations (like this one), but you don't actually explore these things or demonstrate them. Honestly this could be an interesting thing, but if you're just gonna make off-comment observations and not do anything about it what's the point? If you want to make blanket comments like this that

could

be something...DO something about it and you might find more willing ears. Cause right now I only see a player doing his damnest to fight me on my top scumread since Page 3 and not give me any real alternatives.

Another hypocritical post that accuses Vahlen of opposing the Dom wagon without providing any real alternatives, despite the fact that Znitzchel himself will not do the work (at least in-thread) to actually provide any alternatives to anyone. He has STILL not made an actual case on Dom.

408 I don't get where the fuck you claim I am not doing anything. I had a case on Firebringer, you never engaged it. I asked you to join me on there. I got crickets. I started the BPC wagon to try and get on a mutual scumread with someone.

I didn't need to engage you on it when I engaged Firebringer on issues I had with him. The BPC wagon is just bad overall since he was gone the whole time.

What issues, you might ask? Oh yeah, the fact that Firebringer disagreed with the Dom wagon, not anything scummy about Firebringer. And what was this "engagement"? A discussion of Dom's FIRST POST and how it made him scum. Here we have a flat refusal to do any scumhunting, particularly of Firebringer, an actual scum player.

You know when I said that BBMolla is a transparent player? Cause he's transparently town you see. Muffin looks like scum in that exchange using scum tactic after scum tactic to make Molla look bad. My favorite was the constant barage of questions, of which none had a correct answer that would have ever got them out of the exchange. Muffin knew this obviously, hoping he could make Molla look bad by asking BAD QUESTIONS with little to no context.

You know what else is funny? How we are suddenly one of Xtoxm's scumread for no reason...oh wait just kidding there is a reason....because I voted for him last night! It's like magic!

Skybird, Xtoxm, and Muffin are the only players that need to hang this day phase. Here you go Espe, I've narrowed down the lynch pool!

Includes a scum in people he's willing to lynch, but doesn't vote Skybird anytime soon. In fact, the rest of this particular day, he basically does nothing but oppose the Oversoul wagon, then give intent to hammer Oversoul. Wat.

You know people default to masculine pronouns unconsciously mollie, it's pretty obvious who he's talking about.

With that said.

Vote: Firebringer

I brought this up yesterday, but I think Firebringer is just *trying* too hard to do townie things. It reminds me of my issues with him on Day 1. When he thinks no one is paying attention he tries to manipulate. When he gets called out on his scummy things he manipulates (you only need to look at his response to me saying this yesterday to see it).

Alternatively Xtoxm is still scummy too. I've been waiting to see if another player would corroborate his 'vanilized' claim, but I don't think that has happened. So I'm happy to vote here as well.

Also I'm about to go V/La starting Wednesday (which matters because I guess I'm going this hydra alone as well SIGH...), so I wanted to get these thoughts out early.

No, no, no, it's a language cue. You're using manipulative language to get a desired reaction from everyone else. Like right now rather than working through my understanding of you as a player in this game, working through why I would read Yosarian as town (things a townie should do), you're using dismissive language instead (like scum would do).

Here's the part where everyone has to decide for themselves. He makes a sort-of case on Firebringer, saying that he's using misrepresentative and manipulative language to reduce the discussion to his own narrative.

I'm not going to sit here and try to convince you that you are scum. I've demonstrated why I think you're scum, it's not up to you to decide if I'm wrong it's up to everyone else. What is up to you is for you to demonstrate your push on Yosarian is more than just buzzwords.

But he's not going to spend time actually explaining the reasons why he thinks Firebringer is scum. He is at least pretending that he expects everyone to decide based on that one item he has pointed out about Firebringer. And his reason for this is that he doesn't expect to convince Firebringer that Firebringer is scum, as if that was ever a reason to stop arguing with a top scumread.

The rest of Znitzchel's posts are spent defending Skybird, which is very interesting to me. And this is the most poignant thing to me about his voting patterns. When Skybird is the popular vote, he defends him and votes Firebringer. When Firebringer is the popular vote, he is nowhere to be seen. Thus, he never helped town lynch scum. He made a bad case on one scum and defended the other two (before declaring a willingness to hammer one of the scum he defended).

The most interesting thing T-Bone has done since (and yes, we've all sorta been lurking) is to suggest a mass claim. I'm ready to
VOTE: T-Bone

Hopefully later today, I can do a couple more posts like this on some of the other possible scum.

[Shazam]

I guess my spoiler tags are broken somehow? Oh well.

[Shazam]

My read of vezokpiraka yielded little of interest, but I think he's one of the town lurkers here. He would have had to bus pretty hard if he was scum, and he gave at least as much reason for doing so as he did for anything else. On to Heartless/Antihero.

[Shazam]

Spoiler:

So far most my town reads I disagree with.

DV keeps saying I am scum and has almost no other reads
I can't tell when Dom will actually start hunting. I don't know if lynching him today or tomorrow is better for information. No clue on him. Like I said before he is harder to read.

DGB leans town wish he had more scum leans. Me and Dom are probably the easiest ones you can get.

ActionDan I haven. null on. He seems contributing but my gut says that's a cover.


So far yosarian seems suspicious.

VOTE: yosorian

That's where my vote is going for now.time to sleep.

i'm down for killing this
VOTE: firebringer

Votes scum with no stated reason.

Spoiler:

and overly plz don't get offended cos I think you do lots in games! its just when heartless is town usually they are like on steroids and I wld think doubly so as a miller to compensate a negative utility role or mebbe they really just don't care and that wld make me sad.

oooooooooooooor i've got a teasing role, a tth who won't help me out, and a mollie who's ears are turned off. not a combination for a sooper de dooooper motivated antihero.

i would debate you that miller is a neg utility here. i actually think it's positive and i think ya'll are stupid to lynch any claimed millers.

i'll just claim since we have a shitty role anyway.

we're a mime.
the miller modifier comes from the facts that people hate mimes and thus we show as scum on investigations.
we have a bp modifier???? though i'm thinking from the pm flavor that it's fake and it's worded ambiguously
we have a vig/pgo ability?????? though i'm thinking from the pm flavor that it's also fake
we have a replicator ability?????? also may be fake. all of these are flavored as imaginary with invisible things so i'm thinking we're just a castrated pr altogether.

Claims a role that's slightly hard to believe. Considering my own role, it seems unlikely that someone would be just a miller with a bunch of fake abilities.

Do you have another ability you haven"t claimed and an equipment?

oh yeah

equipment is useless, but we have repel which is a doc, stupidity which does nothing

I actually missed this before. Repel is not a doc ability. Not sure what to make of that, though. Why would scum claim something like this falsely?

if dram was a newb mod who didn't know what the fuck he was doing, i would chalk it up to mod error and probably think skybird was town for it, but my first impression is that skybird can't keep her lies straight.

VOTE: skybird

Ok then, this slot is almost certainly town.

[Shazam]

I don't really feel a need to go much farther with Heartless/antihero. It's almost impossible to imagine that slot is scum: getting his role wrong, having a very specific claim, voting all three flipped scum, etc. Maybe I can go through more of the playerlist later. But more T-Bone votes please.

[Shazam]

Oh and let's not forget the falsehoods of the events of Day 1 you included in there. Pointing out the town things I have done and speaking falsehoods...doesn't make me think you are intending to scumhunt, rather just provide a sudden lynch alternative to a slowing PV wagon.

Like you've made the case for exactly why I'm town and then in your post about Antihero you essentially point out things that would more likely come from scum. Were you high when you made those posts?

Then you are claiming the following are towntells:
1) Hypocrisy
2) Pursuing scum only when they are not going to be lynched
3) Voting an easy target with no reason when you've given a legitimate reason to vote someone else
4) Refusing to continue making a case on someone because you've pointed out one scummy thing about them and everyone else should decide based on that

And you are claiming the following are scumtells:
1) Messing up when claiming (NOT on the night actions, but just the abilities one has)
2) Claiming something very specific and strange without prompting
3) Calling scum out on their lies

You do not believe this, and you are calling me high in order to cover that up. If you disagree that these things were actually going on, that is one thing, and you should be making an effort to refute me. But you are disagreeing with my conclusion, not my evidence, which nobody could reasonably do.

[Shazam]

I hate the fact that the most vocal prob-town player is completely ignoring any analysis that doesn't have to do with vote-tallying. Yes, DGB, your Scumputer is very nice, now what about the work I've done lately? Don't the reasons for T-Bone's votes matter more than the targets?

[Shazam]

I hate the fact that the most vocal prob-town player is completely ignoring any analysis that doesn't have to do with vote-tallying. Yes, DGB, your Scumputer is very nice, now what about the work I've done lately? Don't the reasons for T-Bone's votes matter more than the targets?

I cannot look at this until Peregrine is dead as a door knob. You should know how effective the scumputer can be from that recently finished game we were in.

I have to call you on this. The scumputer had absolutely nothing to do with the victory.

[Shazam]

Screw all of you who have slowed this game down to a crawl chasing after nothing. Maybe once PeV flips (probably town) someone will actually listen.

VOTE: PeregrineV

[Shazam]

VOTE: T-Bone
If you don't know why, you haven't been paying attention to me. But wait, we already knew that.

[Shazam]

<insert screaming into the wind here>

[Shazam]

OK, we can kill someone that will never vote T-Bone and really pushed yesterday's townie lynch. Orrrr....we could lynch someone that is likely to be scum. Did anyone notice the fact that scum would generally not do what DGB did yesterday, knowing what the results would be?

[Shazam]

Shazam, who is likely to be scum?

Are you being serious? I made the largest contribution to this game that anyone has in weeks describing one person I found likely to be scum, and two that I did not, and nobody responded AT ALL except the scum person, who did not respond to any individual points. I could have continued in that vein, but that's wasted work if nobody will even discuss what I'm saying.

[Shazam]

Shazam, who is likely to be scum?

Are you being serious? I made the largest contribution to this game that anyone has in weeks describing one person I found likely to be scum, and two that I did not, and nobody responded AT ALL except the scum person, who did not respond to any individual points. I could have continued in that vein, but that's wasted work if nobody will even discuss what I'm saying.

Because the rest of the playerlist understands how obviously town I am, and if you are town you'd realize that and put your effort to finding actual scum. It is really that simple. Nothing that I have done this game, nothing that has transpired this game indicates that I am scum. You literally took a bunch of things that I do as town and called me scum for it. There's no way I kill (or allow a scumbuddy to kill) players I am townreading (or townclearing) when I'd be doing that to buddy up to them. Honestly it's pretty fucking obvious and at this point you are either dense or actually scum.

Just shut up. I know that's saying something, considering the level of activity in this game, but I've had enough of your crap. You do not get to just say "I am not scum, I am town, it's obvious, it's so super-duper obvious", and then pretend like you've made some sort of argument that should convince me. There is no "at this point". We are at the same point as when I made my post that accused you of being scum. You do not get to just say "Nothing that I have done this game indicates that I am scum". I have pointed out several things that do indicate you are scum. You have not answered any of them, nor has anybody else, which is really what I care about. If I am supposed to think you are town, there are reasons for that. Somebody needs to give me those reasons. And it's not going to be you, because you're only capable of "I'm obviously town."

[Shazam]

Feysal, who is scum?

Antihero, I think. If I learned anything from Disney UPick, it is not to trust him when he's lurking. He was on the Skybird lynch, but everyone alive has been on at least one of the scum lynches. I also cannot discount the possibility of a scum miller, with this being a bastard game.

Shazam, I have read your case against T-Bone. While I don't think he is as obvious town as he would like, there is one major flaw in your case. You seem to have forgotten that Dominator was replaced by Skybird, so he was not the easy mislynch you speak of, he was in fact scum.

In any case, T-Bone is not the lynch today, and neither is DGB. I have been rereading parts of this game, and noticed something I should have picked up yesterday.

Quaroath and Antihero, how did you get yourselves scorched on night four?

OK, thanks for responding to that point. I could have sworn Dom was town this game. Maybe I'll get to iso'ing the rest of the players at some point this day phase. Given that fact, I could buy T-Bone as town, but I'll have to give it more thought.

[Shazam]

We have three living claimed millers, but that is beside the point right now. I have something else in mind. Ideally I would have waited for Antihero to also claim his action, but that could take some time, and enough of it has already been wasted.

I stole her Heater Shield that schorched anyone who visited her and has a vig ability.

Scorch is passive, other is active.

Scorch means they visited a player with an item that has Fire 1.

BBmolla [RANGER],

Jack of all Trades

, Guild of Dungeoneering Aligned, Turned into a fine white paste Night 4
Quaroath, Yosarian2 and Antihero are Scorched.

BBmolla had an item he looted from the Doctor which scorched anyone who visited him. It must have scorched whoever killed him. Yosarian is dead and targeted me anyway, which leaves only Quaroath and Antihero. One of them must have killed BBmolla. One of them must be scum. You don't even need to take my word for it, BBmolla explained it all himself on day two.

I don't know what I was thinking yesterday, since I should have picked up on this immediately. But I did not remember he had that Heater Shield. It did not even register how odd it was that Quaroath had been scorched, since I thought a class ability we share would prevent it. I'll have to ask the mod about that.

Now, about Quaroath. I had a theory about him being town on day four, and Shazam said it was wrong, but would not explain why. I think I have figured it out now. He claimed he could steal items, so I guess he tried to steal from Skybird and did not find the Mage Robe that Quaroath lost, or he stole it himself. Either way, Quaroath's item was not stolen by scum, which would have made him town. Shazam, is this correct?

There is also the fact that this is the second time Quaroath has visited a townie on the night they died. While I don't like Antihero either, this looks bad.

The reason the theory was wrong was that you said the same person stole the Coat of Thorns and the Mage Robe. You also said that the Coat of Thorns made its wearer bulletproof. Neither is exactly correct, though the latter is close. I stole Xtoxm's Coat. I know nothing of the Mage Robe.

[Shazam]

FWIW, I confirmed on N3 that Quaroath did not have any items.

[Shazam]

Katsuki deserves to die just for wasting my weekend on a night phase. I feel like I'm never going to be able to fully analyze the player list. After some thought, however, I'm still guessing T-Bone is scum. The fact that Feysal had to point out a major flaw in one of my points about T-Bone (something which T-Bone would know much better than Feysal) proves that T-Bone never even read my case. He didn't care whether someone he thought was town made a good case on him or not, he only cared how many people were voting him. Otherwise, he was just going to brush it off with "I am so town, guys". Now of course, he could have done all this as town, but he would be the most anti-town townie ever.

[Shazam]

VOTE: DGB

I've explained why I think Antihero is town. I might get the chance to iso DGB tomorrow.

[Shazam]

TOWN

DrippingGoofball
PeregrineV
snitzchel (T-Bone/ZZZX)
Yosarian2
Doctor Vahlen
Kindness (Espe/Mollie)
ActionDan >>> Wow AD, you pulled town? Is that a first?
Muffin
TriforceP

SHRUG

Quaroath
xtoxm
vezokpiraka

WORRISOME

Oversoul >>> his vote was stolen, and it's unclaimed, so from scum. Very likely scum on scum.
Shazam
BipolarChemist >>> Back from VLA, needs to impress.
Heartless (antihero/tth) >>> announcing "catching up" on page 4? LOL, and why do you need a qualifier to your miller claim that Anti told you to claim? Last post August 8
BBmolla

SCUM

TheDominator37-Skybird
Firebringer

Yeah... UNVOTE:

But I don't know that I want to go with antihero instead. I have a very hard time seeing either as scum. What about Katsuki? Anyone, anyone?

[Shazam]

Well that information got us just about nowhere. I have no reason to think DS is scum.

[Shazam]

Yeah, at this point in the game it looks like I'll have to vote someone who I would otherwise have thought was town, unless I vote for Katsuki and T-Bone. There are no other votes for either Katsuki or T-Bone. So I really don't know what to do.

[Shazam]

I'm fine with a 1v1. I think I've pretty well demonstrated that I'm town. VOTE: Katsuki
Or you could ignore me yet again and lose. Up to the rest of you townies.

[Shazam]

But my townieness is not in question so...

Explain to me why you're town?

This should be good. *popcorn*

[Shazam]

@Feysal: Is there something I should know about items? Because I was not informed of any nor of any past actions so I'd need to reconfirm with Dram if that's the case.

What was the result of this inquiry, Katsuki?

[Shazam]

This is getting truly ridiculous. It's pretty clear Katsuki hasn't even checked this thread since the day started. We've gone beyond the point of inactivity from lack of interesting developments. We're now at the point where some of the players don't even bother looking.

[Shazam]

Katsuki is basically admitting being scum. I stole an item from Katsuki, which not only shows that he would have received info from Dram about items, but also shows that Katsuki is probably not a vig as claimed, because the item is not a vig item. The only thing that made me hesitate at all is that the item CAN be used as a cop, but the fact that Katsuki has not claimed using any investigation, and the fact that the other use of the item IS helpful for scum, made it so that one false step from Katsuki would be enough for me. Intentionally not answering my inquiry qualifies.

VOTE: Katsuki

[Shazam]

By the way, if you've been keeping score, I'm currently a Vote-Stealing, Vote-Restoring, Item-Stealing, Bulletproof Follower/Cop/Hider/??? whose night actions cannot fail. Classic. Should be in every theme game. 10/10 would play again.

[Shazam]

And this is not even my final form.

[Shazam]

That's convoluted as fuck.

If you're referring to my reasons for voting Kat, it's really not that complicated. He's either a cop-vig or he's lying. He either got no message from Dram about his very important item or he's lying. And when I tried to give him a chance to either save or condemn himself, he refused to respond.

If you're referring to my claim instead, I agree, but you should already be voting Kat.

[Shazam]

Katsuki is basically admitting being scum. I stole an item from Katsuki, which not only shows that he would have received info from Dram about items, but also shows that Katsuki is probably not a vig as claimed, because the item is not a vig item. The only thing that made me hesitate at all is that the item CAN be used as a cop, but the fact that Katsuki has not claimed using any investigation, and the fact that the other use of the item IS helpful for scum, made it so that one false step from Katsuki would be enough for me. Intentionally not answering my inquiry qualifies.

VOTE: Katsuki

Wonderful, you're straight up lying now to try and save your own skin.

The funnier thing is, you haven't claimed a single night action yet all game despite having a cop ability.

Well this is pretty much a slip. First of all, I have claimed at least two night actions, so you just haven't been paying attention. But secondly, you are admitting I have a cop ability, which I stole from you. I don't know why you think that makes me scum, but you've really just admitted I'm telling the truth while calling me a liar.

[Shazam]

lol? I'm responding to your claim a few posts ago where you claimed all your abilities.

What are you talking about? Not only did you quote a different post, but my claim of being a cop is still very obviously tied to the fact that I stole the cop item from you. Caught scum say some really weird things.

[Shazam]

I'm serious, Antihero, I need you to claim your action last night at the very least.

mimed katsuki on dgb

I take it you got no response by doing this? And to clarify, your ability uses the target's ABILITY on someone else, not their ITEM?

Ok, there is more than one of a flavor. Therefore, if Antihero is telling the truth, then he and Katsuki are not mafia, and if Katsuki is a roleblocker, which I believe there is one, then that means dgb is mafia. THEREFORE.

VOTE: DrippingGoofball

What? What are you talking about? Are you paying attention, and claiming that Katsuki was originally a roleblocker/vig/cop????
Or are you not paying attention?

[Shazam]

Ok, there is more than one of a flavor. Therefore, if Antihero is telling the truth, then he and Katsuki are not mafia, and if Katsuki is a roleblocker, which I believe there is one, then that means dgb is mafia. THEREFORE.

VOTE: DrippingGoofball

I also want to point out how incredibly suspicious it is that you ignored the obvscum Katsuki's flailing and slipping, assumed that Katsuki was a roleblocker for no apparent reason, then assumed Antihero was telling the truth, and voted at mylo based on all that crap.

[Shazam]

You realize that at this point, Katsuki is necessarily claiming that he was ORIGINALLY an ascetic, beloved princess, cop/vig with other not very important abilities, and someone else is assuming he's also a roleblocker, even though he can't steal items to get to that many abilities. What is this game coming to? Please just die.

[Shazam]

vote: no lynch

Seriously if you're town, this needs to happen.

This is a bad idea. There are vote-stealing abilities in the game. I don't want to risk one of them being used at lylo to force a no-lynch and a scum win.

[Shazam]

I'm trusting Antihero, and thus, DGB and Shazam or Katsuki are the best lynch ideas. I'd say we lynch DGB and then I do my magic tonight.

Are you freaking serious? I thoroughly debunked your analysis that backed up your attack on DGB, and even more thoroughly demonstrated that Katsuki is lying about his role, and you still want to lynch DGB? You are either the worst town player I have ever seen or scum. And I mean that, that is not an exaggeration. Even if you were somehow right, your reasons for it are impossibly bad or nonexistent.

[Shazam]

Someone seems like scum being mad at about having been caught for the wrong reasons.

Also, why are you upset about my lynch on DGB?

What are you talking about? Even if I was scum, which I'm pretty clearly not, you wouldn't have caught me, because you haven't even made a case on me. And literally my only interaction with you this day phase has been telling you why I don't like your vote of DGB. What alternate reality are you living in?

I'm trusting Antihero, and thus, DGB and Shazam or Katsuki are the best lynch ideas. I'd say we lynch DGB and then I do my magic tonight.

Are you freaking serious? I thoroughly debunked your analysis that backed up your attack on DGB, and even more thoroughly demonstrated that Katsuki is lying about his role, and you still want to lynch DGB? You are either the worst town player I have ever seen or scum. And I mean that, that is not an exaggeration. Even if you were somehow right, your reasons for it are impossibly bad or nonexistent.

Has to be DS/Kats/Antihero but I can't decide which. Help?

How can you not be sure it's Katsuki after everything I've said? Do you REALLY think that Katsuki was initially an ascetic-beloved princess-cop-oneshotvig-bulletproof-follower with additional passives? If not, and you believe I'm town, then Katsuki is scum. I find Katsuki's claim ridiculous even apart from the item (which accounts for two of those abilities).

[Shazam]

Someone seems like scum being mad at about having been caught for the wrong reasons.

Also, why are you upset about my lynch on DGB?

What are you talking about? Even if I was scum, which I'm pretty clearly not, you wouldn't have caught me, because you haven't even made a case on me. And literally my only interaction with you this day phase has been telling you why I don't like your vote of DGB. What alternate reality are you living in?

Could you not dodge my second question? Please and thanks.

Me: Your DGB vote makes no sense because <insert tirade about the nonsensical nature of the vote>
You: Why are you upset about my lynch on DGB?
Me: Literally the only thing I've said to you is why I don't like that lynch.
You: Stop dodging the question.



I would say more about the subject, but it's clear I'm typing to a brick wall .

[Shazam]

vote: no lynch

Seriously if you're town, this needs to happen.

This is a bad idea. There are vote-stealing abilities in the game. I don't want to risk one of them being used at lylo to force a no-lynch and a scum win.

Depends on if you think one scum or two scum remains. I think there is only one, so this is fine now while we have 6.

My point is, why would you risk it? Surely scum will only kill if it's in their interest. So why would you leave it up to them to make that decision? We have a caught scum. There is no point in risking a scum win by no-lynching.

[Shazam]

Well if Antihero and Katsuki are both scum, town has lost this game. I am pretty confident DiamondSentinel will not vote correctly at this point, so lynching scum will be impossible. If on the other hand Katsuki is the only scum, there's always tomorrow. I'm definitely considering those the two most likely scenarios.

[Shazam]

Gee, thanks. I'm glad that you have so much faith in me.

Voting the caught scum would work wonders for that.

[Shazam]

Katsuki is basically admitting being scum. I stole an item from Katsuki, which not only shows that he would have received info from Dram about items, but also shows that Katsuki is probably not a vig as claimed, because the item is not a vig item. The only thing that made me hesitate at all is that the item CAN be used as a cop, but the fact that Katsuki has not claimed using any investigation, and the fact that the other use of the item IS helpful for scum, made it so that one false step from Katsuki would be enough for me. Intentionally not answering my inquiry qualifies.

VOTE: Katsuki

I claim Katsuki had a cop ability and another ability (which is follower).

Wonderful, you're straight up lying now to try and save your own skin.

The funnier thing is, you haven't claimed a single night action yet all game despite having a cop ability.

Katsuki admits that I have a cop ability which I stole from him.

I can't find my role PM right now, it got buried in all the PMs surrounding NS.

The relevant parts of my ability are that I can make myself bulletproof each night, and that if I am lynched the next day is skipped (beloved princess).

I have a few passive abilities and I think two other active abilities (but those aren't really important since I haven't been using any of them).

Katsuki claims bulletproof, beloved princess, a "few" passive abilities and two active abilities.

Oh one of the actives is that I can make myself immune to night actions for the night (ASCETIC).

One of the active abilities he's claiming to have is ascetic, meaning the other is not cop or follower, because if it was, he'd be saying he had three active abilities. Which leads to...

I shot mollie, but that was a one time thing.

The one-shot vig claim.

To recap, Katsuki is claiming to ORIGINALLY be an ascetic, bulletproof, beloved princess, cop, follower, one-shot vig with other passive abilities. If you believe this, you would never vote Katsuki for anything. This is very different from my claim, which involves stealing multiple items.

[Shazam]

I mean, in this gamemode, it could be possible. It's quite a ridiculous setup.

This is a terrible argument.
"Oh, well you know, the US sent drone strikes into the Middle East, so...nukes could be possible."
"Oh, well you know, Watergate turned out to really be a conspiracy, so...the Illuminati could be possible."

That's not how things work. You make inferences about what's possible from what people have actually claimed. Claims have been generally along the lines of "I can find out what action someone used during the night, and I can also reflexively roleblock anyone who targets me." You don't then say, "well we had a bunch of those kinds of claims, so an ascetic, bulletproof, beloved princess, cop, follower, one-shot vig with other passive abilities is clearly possible".

[Shazam]

VOTE: Katsuki

I claim Katsuki had a cop ability and another ability (which is follower).

Wonderful, you're straight up lying now to try and save your own skin.

The funnier thing is, you haven't claimed a single night action yet all game despite having a cop ability.

Katsuki admits that I have a cop ability which I stole from him.

I love how you keep spewing the same lines of crap. I point out the bullshit in your fakeclaim (you claim to have stolen a cop ability yet never felt the need to use it?)

Like you can't even get your own fakeclaim straight.

I can't find my role PM right now, it got buried in all the PMs surrounding NS.

The relevant parts of my ability are that I can make myself bulletproof each night, and that if I am lynched the next day is skipped (beloved princess).

I have a few passive abilities and I think two other active abilities (but those aren't really important since I haven't been using any of them).

Katsuki claims bulletproof, beloved princess, a "few" passive abilities and two active abilities.[/b]

and?

Oh one of the actives is that I can make myself immune to night actions for the night (ASCETIC).

One of the active abilities he's claiming to have is ascetic, meaning the other is not cop or follower, because if it was, he'd be saying he had three active abilities. Which leads to...

I never claimed how many I had actives I had. You keep adding whatever you can.

I shot mollie, but that was a one time thing.

The one-shot vig claim.

To recap, Katsuki is claiming to ORIGINALLY be an ascetic, bulletproof, beloved princess, cop, follower, one-shot vig with other passive abilities. If you believe this, you would never vote Katsuki for anything. This is very different from my claim, which involves stealing multiple items.

lmao I love how cop follower got added in there. Next you're gonna claim that I'm a cult recruiter too for me.



@Tbone: If you read what Antihero and I have said WRT DGB's play thus far in MYLO and still think she makes no sense as scum based on game then I don't know what more to say to you.[/quote]
Again, which universe are you living in? How on earth would I have used the cop ability yet? I haven't had a night in which to do so yet.
If you never claimed how many actives you had, then you never fullclaimed. You said you thought you had two other actives in one of your posts. I was making the point that it would have to be three in order to defend you at all.
Cop and follower didn't get "added in there". I said at the beginning of the day that I had stolen a cop+??? item from you, and then later said that it was specifically follower. You agreed that I was a cop immediately afterwards. Which means you were admitting I stole this item from you. Which means you were admitting that those were part of your role. I'm not continuing this discussion, as it's not for your benefit, and you're obviously just flailing.

Katsuki is basically admitting being scum. I stole an item from Katsuki, which not only shows that he would have received info from Dram about items, but also shows that Katsuki is probably not a vig as claimed, because the item is not a vig item. The only thing that made me hesitate at all is that the item CAN be used as a cop, but the fact that Katsuki has not claimed using any investigation, and the fact that the other use of the item IS helpful for scum, made it so that one false step from Katsuki would be enough for me. Intentionally not answering my inquiry qualifies.

VOTE: Katsuki

Wonderful, you're straight up lying now to try and save your own skin.

The funnier thing is, you haven't claimed a single night action yet all game despite having a cop ability.

[Shazam]

Sorry, there's a massive quote tag fail in my last post, let's see if I can salvage it at all.

[Shazam]

EBWOP:

VOTE: Katsuki
I claim Katsuki had a cop ability and another ability (which is follower).

Wonderful, you're straight up lying now to try and save your own skin.

The funnier thing is, you haven't claimed a single night action yet all game despite having a cop ability.

Katsuki admits that I have a cop ability which I stole from him.

I love how you keep spewing the same lines of crap. I point out the bullshit in your fakeclaim (you claim to have stolen a cop ability yet never felt the need to use it?)

Like you can't even get your own fakeclaim straight.

I can't find my role PM right now, it got buried in all the PMs surrounding NS.

The relevant parts of my ability are that I can make myself bulletproof each night, and that if I am lynched the next day is skipped (beloved princess).

I have a few passive abilities and I think two other active abilities (but those aren't really important since I haven't been using any of them).

Katsuki claims bulletproof, beloved princess, a "few" passive abilities and two active abilities.

and?

Oh one of the actives is that I can make myself immune to night actions for the night (ASCETIC).

One of the active abilities he's claiming to have is ascetic, meaning the other is not cop or follower, because if it was, he'd be saying he had three active abilities. Which leads to...

I never claimed how many I had actives I had. You keep adding whatever you can.

I shot mollie, but that was a one time thing.

The one-shot vig claim.

To recap, Katsuki is claiming to ORIGINALLY be an ascetic, bulletproof, beloved princess, cop, follower, one-shot vig with other passive abilities. If you believe this, you would never vote Katsuki for anything. This is very different from my claim, which involves stealing multiple items.

lmao I love how cop follower got added in there. Next you're gonna claim that I'm a cult recruiter too for me.


@Tbone: If you read what Antihero and I have said WRT DGB's play thus far in MYLO and still think she makes no sense as scum based on game then I don't know what more to say to you.

Again, which universe are you living in? How on earth would I have used the cop ability yet? I haven't had a night in which to do so yet.
If you never claimed how many actives you had, then you never fullclaimed. You said you thought you had two other actives in one of your posts. I was making the point that it would have to be three in order to defend you at all.
Cop and follower didn't get "added in there". I said at the beginning of the day that I had stolen a cop+??? item from you, and then later said that it was specifically follower. You agreed that I was a cop immediately afterwards. Which means you were admitting I stole this item from you. Which means you were admitting that those were part of your role. I'm not continuing this discussion, as it's not for your benefit, and you're obviously just flailing.

Katsuki is basically admitting being scum. I stole an item from Katsuki, which not only shows that he would have received info from Dram about items, but also shows that Katsuki is probably not a vig as claimed, because the item is not a vig item. The only thing that made me hesitate at all is that the item CAN be used as a cop, but the fact that Katsuki has not claimed using any investigation, and the fact that the other use of the item IS helpful for scum, made it so that one false step from Katsuki would be enough for me. Intentionally not answering my inquiry qualifies.

VOTE: Katsuki

Wonderful, you're straight up lying now to try and save your own skin.

The funnier thing is, you haven't claimed a single night action yet all game despite having a cop ability.

[Shazam]

I honestly haven't seen much scummy by way of Katsuki, but if what DGB's said, it seems pretty bad.

However, you seem to trust Katsuki more, which makes me trust her.

Also DGB and Shazam seem to want to get us to think it's 1 scum instead of 2, and want us to vote Katsuki. That makes me more inclined to vote DGB.

Uhhh no I've tried to lynch both of them this game, I do not trust either of them.

And no the only one advocating 1 scum over 2 is me.

This.

Let's be clear about what's happening here, regardless of how many scum are still in this game. Katsuki is claiming that I'm lying about my role, presumable because he now wants to say that he never had a cop/follower item (though he has been intentionally unclear about this). However Katsuki already spoke as if what I was saying was true, and I really had a cop ability (quoted in my last post). Furthermore, I am saying that I stole said item from Katsuki. Thus, one of us is scum, and it's clearly the one who has flip-flopped on whether I'm telling the truth (which is not a matter of opinion to him) and killed a clear. If you take the ridiculous position that Katsuki is just being confusing and really admits that he had the item in the first place, then you have to believe the mod made a role which I've explained many times is utterly nonsensical. Either way, Katsuki is obvscum.

[Shazam]

But yeah you shot Mollie when she was confirmed by two players and that's why I wanted to lynch you (and then stuff happened)

I want to lynch DGB because she's a scumbutt.

This is a difficult decision.

They might both be scum. But one of them is caught scum. The other is just suspicious to you.

[Shazam]

If DGB is town, you're free to policy lynch me in future games.

@mod: As a mod (and I've modded a few games before), I would not be cool with this. If you're cool with this, then that's fine, I just wanted to make sure you noticed it, because it's super meta-gamey.

[Shazam]

You say 'this' and then nothing you say after indicates anything to do with the post. It's like you guys are going through my scum-manipulation textbooks to try to manipulate me now.

It was just two different topics in the same post. It happens.

[Shazam]

If DGB is town, you're free to policy lynch me in future games.

@mod: As a mod (and I've modded a few games before), I would not be cool with this. If you're cool with this, then that's fine, I just wanted to make sure you noticed it, because it's super meta-gamey.

^scum fishing for modkills

Skipping the first word, which is clearly not true:
If by "fishing for modkills" you mean "asking the mod if he considers something worth addressing, because I consider it worth addressing" then yes, that's what I'm doing. I wouldn't modkill for it (because for one thing, it's not in the rules), but I would address it if I was the mod.
Though your jump to conclusions about what I want to happen seems to indicate that you feel it deserves some sort of response yourself.

[Shazam]

tbf, I trust Katsuki more than I trust DGB. Katsuki reminds me of the way I play town. I think that I'm just going to go with my gut at this point.

VOTE: DGB

"Judge Morris, we have fingerprints, DNA, a recorded confession, and five eyewitnesses to the crime. Your verdict?"
"I'm gonna go with my gut. Not guilty."

It's amazing that you still think the choice is between DGB and Katsuki. Katsuki doesn't even actually think that. The choice is between ME and Katsuki. One of us is lying. You are choosing to ignore the evidence that it's Katsuki. I question whether you've even made an attempt to understand what's happened SINCE you replaced, much less before.

[Shazam]

dgb why would you ever lynch me </3

Maybe because you lied? And got caught lying? And still didn't admit you lied?
I seriously don't get how town could ever do that.
On top of it all, you condemned ME as being scum for telling the truth, which you knew was true.

[Shazam]

I think in most contexts, there would be someone using the term game-throwing to describe Katsuki's play here. I gave Katsuki an out when I first got the night action results that led to his lynch. He didn't take it, and chose to base everything on a lie as town.

[Shazam]

Anyway, the game was very complicated, but well modded, and usually those are my favorite types of games. I don't think this particular group of players at this particular time was right for the game, but it could have been a lot better of a game than it was. I take as much responsibility as anyone (other than Katsuki) for that.
Much hilarity ensued, and I claimed just about the most preposterous, true role that has ever been claimed in non-bastard mafia. Thanks, mod.

[Shazam]

dgb why would you ever lynch me </3

Maybe because you lied? And got caught lying? And still didn't admit you lied?
I seriously don't get how town could ever do that.
On top of it all, you condemned ME as being scum for telling the truth, which you knew was true.

Perhaps you shouldn't lie about the abilities you steal next time. Just an FYI

You must be seriously ignorant if you still think you're in the right here. I never said a word that was untrue about the abilities I stole. You called it a lie because you have never had a freaking clue about anything in this game.

[Shazam]

Gee, thanks. I'm glad that you have so much faith in me.

Oh, the irony.

[Shazam]

dgb why would you ever lynch me </3

Maybe because you lied? And got caught lying? And still didn't admit you lied?
I seriously don't get how town could ever do that.
On top of it all, you condemned ME as being scum for telling the truth, which you knew was true.

Perhaps you shouldn't lie about the abilities you steal next time. Just an FYI

You must be seriously ignorant if you still think you're in the right here. I never said a word that was untrue about the abilities I stole. You called it a lie because you have never had a freaking clue about anything in this game.

Wow, and the dead thread indicates you KNEW you had Arcane 2. How about you go read Arcane 2 from the role PMs? It never even occurred to you that maybe, just maybe Arcane 2 was the cop ability I was referring to that I had stolen from you?

It's a whole new level of fail.

[Shazam]

Gee, thanks. I'm glad that you have so much faith in me.

Oh, the irony.

Meh, this is my second completed game on site, and forum mafia is way different from chatroom mafia. I'm way better at the latter, but I'm trying here. I'd appreciate if you'd give me half a chance at this stuff, though, without being jerks. Both games I've finished somebody has insulted me, which was completely uncalled for. Antihero and/or Fakegod did it in the game that they MODDED.

I wouldn't really call it insults, but the negativity sprang from the fact that you were ignoring a situation that 99.9% of the time would have been town vs. scum, and going after a townie instead. Turns out Katsuki was just ridiculously bad town, but your actions demonstrated to me that you weren't really trying to grasp the points I was making. I do think it's a lack of effort, not a lack of experience or a lack of ability. It's common sense that you don't ignore people who are calling each other liars for role-related reasons, especially when the consensus is that one of them is town. In fact Katsuki was a liar (or else didn't care to know the first thing about his own role and abilities).

Not grasping this led to your final mistake: killing me.

[Shazam]

p.s. Shazam you're terrible at this game pls quit mafia thx

In the end, all you have is an insult, not an argument. Classic projection. I'm legitimately sad that you simply not paying attention to the game and calling me a liar because of it led to all this. Town probably would have won otherwise.