Guild of Dungeoneering Mafia (Game Over)

[znitzchel]

Confirming the path to a perpendicular path to find the arc of the projectile.

Path verified. Applying advanced path correction

Confirm

[znitzchel]

^ is zzzx

[znitzchel]

Checking in bitches.

Just to clarify, Znitzchel is the hydra of ZZZX and T-Bone
The name I suggested clearly was better, but they wanted one of their own.

Also myko suggested this name to me and it is far superior.

[znitzchel]

without directly quoting my role pm it will wrong upon investigation. mine had another adverb in there that isn't super important also mine was connected to flavour as in we are stupid and that is why we will appear wrong. was yours heavily worded wrt flavour?

Yes mine is also heavily linked to flavor, but it says that if I'm investigated I give a scum as a result.

By my astute calculations....we are also a miller. It is a flavor thing as well, but the result is the same, we come up as scum to investigative roles.

[znitzchel]

/confirm I am mafia
I mean
/confirm I Am town

Also this is scum gloating so he can point to this post later!

Vote: TheDominator

More like TheDominated amirite?

[znitzchel]

VOTE: DGB

You forgot we're Masons.

Also I counterclaim cause I'm Masons with DGB...

[znitzchel]

Dom is seriously scum you guys, look at that scumpanic!

[znitzchel]

I think I'll have better idea of how to sort dominator tomorrow.

His day on actions are kinda unpredictable.

Why are you making excuses for a scummy player...on page 5? Is he not capable of defending himself?

Pinging me hard.

PeregrineVZnitzchel (T-Bone/ZZZX)

I take serious offense to this notion, I have not claimed that PV is actually also in this playerslot (Dammit Bone --PV)

^ if only it were so easy. But it's not, and Triforce's posts and vote and lack of unvote thereafter isn't condemnation worthy apart from it being a waste of an RVS vote.

Another one defending another player...why can't Triforce be given a chance to explain himself? At best you're undermining the play of another player...at worst you're scum...in which case carry on.

[znitzchel]

Idk about tri ill vote him because I am I. The favor of an early wagon but I will look over him and most likely unvote
VOTE: triforcep

Is this the point in the game where I already need to ask people to 'vote this please'? Because holy hell this thing needs vote PRONTO.

[znitzchel]

have you seen dom play?


Nothing so far has suprised me except for him claiming he was scum and I was his partner.

Which really shouldn't have.

Don't try to appeal to my sense of meta, cause I don't have one. Have you seen Dom play right now? First yeah he makes the claiming scum joke in his first post. But what you need to understand is that I'm not calling him scum for what he said, I'm calling him scum for how he said it. He jokingly claims scum then immediately in the same post walks it back to a town claim. Why is that significant? Because I think in his mind he was afraid if he didn't do that he'd be accused of being scum. Something that a scum player is way more concerned with than a town one. And hey when you are scum,claiming scum during RVS is a little bit amusing. I've done it before, I know other players on this site (maybe even this playerlist) have done it before. I know what you might be thinking "Bone, this is a relatively minor thing". And in a vacuum yes, this is a minor thing.

But then I look at Dom's language. You have called Dom a "flippant" player. But to me it's very plain he's not being flippant cause he's town, he's being very non-commital because he's scum. There is a difference between the two modes of play. You'll see more flippant town players constantly change their votes, accusing players willy-nilly, and the like. Dom is not doing that. Instead he is using very hesitant language, and he is justifying things he's gonna do before he's gonna do them. I see a player trying to cover his own ass in hopes of not being scumread for the scum things he thinks he has to do/is going to do.

It's interesting that you continued to defend him without knowing why he's being scumread in detail, and that's a problem for me. Your naked vote on me in #141 leaves a lot to be desired, but I'm sure you'll explain that one after the fact...right?

[znitzchel]

Can someone please reply to this? I have six votes on me, far more than anyone else, and nobody has touched this in, like, 30 posts.

Also, Doc, you haven't really convinced me on Dom. Actually reading through that ISO you talked about, I have to take his side on this one.

I will comment. Your naked vote on me is just that, naked. Hooray for you! (also my apologies I originally attributed that post to Firebringer)

Also I'm the one pushing Dom...he's pushing Firebringer.

[znitzchel]

What post you attribute to me?

Am I the only other one bedsides triforce, not seeing him as scummy?

I made a comment in one of my other posts about you voting me incorrectly because it was Triforce who was voting me. (at a glance your avatars have a similar color palate)

I'm ambivalent about Triforce, he leaves a lot to be desired, as evidence by the wagon on him.

[znitzchel]

What post you attribute to me?

Am I the only other one bedsides triforce, not seeing him as scummy?

I made a comment in one of my other posts about you voting me incorrectly because it was Triforce who was voting me. (at a glance your avatars have a similar color palate)

I'm ambivalent about Triforce, he leaves a lot to be desired, as evidence by the wagon on him.

Yes, a wagon that I argued against, and there has still been no rebuttal, 50 posts later, even by the people who led my wagon (though someone mentioned that they'd get to it soon, fingers crossed)

Okay well here's the thing. I thought you were fine until you decided to take an anti-town stance in regards to all the miller claims. That's not critical thinking, that's making an excuse to justify a vote you really don't have any real reason to make.

And no I'm not saying questioning the multiple millers isn't worth it....but you actually aren't doing anything about it. You've been wagoned so far for really bad scum-type voting reasons. Did you even read Yosarian's post? He more or less accused you of that (in many many more words), and rather than answer for it you've been complaining there's been no rebuttal to the defense you came up with. But if I was a player looking to lynch you (and if I didn't have stronger scumreads elsewhere I would) I'd need to see an evolution in your play in order to stop considering you a top scum-suspect. None of your posts indicate any sort of critical thinking meant to find scum. That's where you have gone wrong so far, and if you are town and want that perception to change, you gotta change it.

If you think I'm scum, why? What about my play suggests this? Was my claim bad? Did I do it in a way to suggest I am scum? What about the other wagons, what do you think about them? Which wagons are worth more effort in your opinion? Which ones should dissipate?

If you can't be honest about your thought processes (which so far you really haven't been) no one is going to trust that you're town. I definitely don't trust that because I don't see any real town thought processes coming out of your posts.

[znitzchel]

I don't think I said anything about you and your Kindness vote.

[znitzchel]

~I will be vla for 24 hours cus my grandparenats are going back to jordan. I expect this to be my last vla for a while

-Z

shiet out of hydra. I will quote those two ina sec

You guys suck at hydra posting *_*

Well I dont hydra that often :3

[znitzchel]

This Dominator wagon pleases me. I feel pretty good about this turn of events.

[znitzchel]

This new wagon starting to form on Dom is interesting. It's the second time such wagons have formed. The first was on me for my votes on Firebringer and BPC. Then we have a Dom wagon starting for his vote on BBMolla. While Dom's play leaves plenty to be desired, I do think this turn of events should tell us something.

This new wagon starting to form on Dom is interesting. It's the second time such wagons have formed. The first was on me for my votes on Firebringer and BPC. Then we have a Dom wagon starting for his vote on BBMolla. While Dom's play leaves plenty to be desired, I do think this turn of events should tell us something.

This new wagon starting to form on Dom is interesting. It's the second time such wagons have formed. The first was on me for my votes on Firebringer and BPC. Then we have a Dom wagon starting for his vote on BBMolla. While Dom's play leaves plenty to be desired, I do think this turn of events should tell us something.

This new wagon starting to form on Dom is interesting. It's the second time such wagons have formed. The first was on me for my votes on Firebringer and BPC. Then we have a Dom wagon starting for his vote on BBMolla. While Dom's play leaves plenty to be desired, I do think this turn of events should tell us something.

This new wagon starting to form on Dom is interesting. It's the second time such wagons have formed. The first was on me for my votes on Firebringer and BPC. Then we have a Dom wagon starting for his vote on BBMolla. While Dom's play leaves plenty to be desired, I do think this turn of events should tell us something.

This new wagon starting to form on Dom is interesting. It's the second time such wagons have formed. The first was on me for my votes on Firebringer and BPC. Then we have a Dom wagon starting for his vote on BBMolla. While Dom's play leaves plenty to be desired, I do think this turn of events should tell us something.

Information Instead of Analysis to a fucking T

Also I literally started this push on like Page 3, let's not pretend it has come out of no where.

[znitzchel]

This new wagon starting to form on Dom is interesting. It's the second time such wagons have formed. The first was on me for my votes on Firebringer and BPC. Then we have a Dom wagon starting for his vote on BBMolla. While Dom's play leaves plenty to be desired, I do think this turn of events should tell us something.

The only thing that could tell that molla might have done an OMGUS. And is that really "bad"? Not abd enough to note like that.

Also anyone not voting for Dom should think about it. Do you see anyone more deserving of hitting scum?

Me and bone did some discussion after I caught up and we both agree that Dom deserves rope. High quality rope.

Anyone who isnt voting him, Do you disagree, And if so why?
-Z

p-edit: the fact that it bit there doesnt really change much. It was true that it did speed up but it was nothing too worrying. And again Doctor who are the scum chainsawing and OMGUSING for each others? Stop being so vague. Because beign that vague is a huge scum-tell ykno.

[znitzchel]

What I want you to show me is where they are "OMGUSING AND CHAINSAWING" for each others. Go over it slowly and explain every piece as if I was 10 years old.

[znitzchel]

so you have 7~ people as scum?

[znitzchel]

"logical thinking is dead". ...But you're narrating what is going on (and not doing a good job at that)

[znitzchel]

Townblocs are scummy DocVal, stop that. I also have not stated townreads or any of those players (they haven't stated townreads on me, etc. etc. etc.). Is this you trying to box a group of players into reads so if they change later you can call them on it?

You're still not narrating the Dom wagon correctly.

For what it's worth I

was

townreading you till #381, you've seemed to make it your mission to completely abandon the town game you've been playing to trying to manipulate the playerlist, (or certain subsets) and that isn't going to fly.

While I am glad there's not a wagon on me, the fact that it is the same exact people who rushed over to BBMolla's defense, when he's done nothing worth defending is alarming.

This looks like BB's town game to me, imo. I'm leaning town on him.

Some people think BBMolla is a transparent player, I am one of those people, so no currently I don't think this is his scum game either and that's why I'm not jumping on him (and why most aren't).

Pushing the BPC wagon is a problem for me, because you are defending Dom for being the type of player that he is, but not giving BPC the same courtesy. I've never played with him in mafia. I do know the last time I asked him to play in a mafia game of mine (earlier this year) he said he didn't play mafia, that leads me to conclude BPC has just started playing mafia and hasn't played enough to establish any sort of behavior he should be lynched over. (Also I am aware of his out-of-game issues that probably led to his v/la so there's that).

The town block has trouble deciding who we want, yet there's a group of people who haven't questioned each other at all who magically all vote together. Their votes all come after other players vote. Yes, call me suspicious. There's no other reason beyond Dom's suddenly scummy now. That's textbook chainsawing and OMGUSing.

And this is where your town game falls apart. I was reading as you as town early on for making some interesting observations (like this one), but you don't actually explore these things or demonstrate them. Honestly this could be an interesting thing, but if you're just gonna make off-comment observations and not do anything about it what's the point? If you want to make blanket comments like this that

could

be something...DO something about it and you might find more willing ears. Cause right now I only see a player doing his damnest to fight me on my top scumread since Page 3 and not give me any real alternatives.

[znitzchel]

I think we need to sort bpc and heartless I dunno colour me silly but they look far scummier than any1 else in the game zzthing. so i disagree I guess. *shrug*

also why are you 2 ignoring us.

Mollie I'm not ignoring you we're just on two different paths

[znitzchel]

I agree with kindness.

I want Xtoxm head. Pure gut (got a few logical reasons too but I am a lazy shit)

At the moment T-Bone wants the head of Sky.

-Z

[znitzchel]

408 I don't get where the fuck you claim I am not doing anything. I had a case on Firebringer, you never engaged it. I asked you to join me on there. I got crickets. I started the BPC wagon to try and get on a mutual scumread with someone.

I didn't need to engage you on it when I engaged Firebringer on issues I had with him. The BPC wagon is just bad overall since he was gone the whole time.

Pedit... Well my request in 405 might be outdated.

All outdated now, but no I'm going to treat all players I'm encountering for the first time as players that are competent and will act in the best interests for their win condition. (there was another player (it was AD) that said I should consider him to be a dumb player).

Did you see something in there stopping him? But yes I'm undermining the case because I don't agree with it. I don't remember this ever being something I should refrain from doing, considering it's an integral component of the game.

Then you are just intentionally sabotaging the case of a player who could be town trying to find scum. Excellent work.

Since Shazam is getting attention at the moment, I ISO'd him first.

The difference here is you didn't state you were on V/LA. Most people would think that you were avoiding the thread, not V/LA since it wasn't announced. So I can understand Oversoul's concern about you.

You asked for Yos' opinion on the exchange and then you brush it aside because you don't like what he says. I think a vote on Shazam is a good place to start.

VOTE: Shazam

Skybird sadly does nothing to town up his slot. I think this pretty transparently comes from scum, entering the game Skybird had the largest wagon on him, but his replacement caused momentum to shift to Shazam. He says "a vote on Shazam is a good place to start" as if this Shazam wagon is nothing.

I was actually down for the Shazam push, in particular I feel convinced by Yos2's #462 (and by extension Oversoul). Shazam caved to pressure pretty fast. So I'm 50-50 at Shazam's sudden content (because the timing and situation looks bad, but some of his posting is not particularly anything).

Our top scumreads (and preferred lynches) are Skybird (for me) and Xtoxm (ZZZX will post more on this one).

Preedit: Hooray for Espe? I think?

[znitzchel]

I won't do sky. I would love Vezok but then who would I have the pleasure of interrogating by waterboarding in a flaming hot oven? Shazam's push to clear everything up later when obvious town misunderstands him isn't townie. Y'all won't do Firebringer. BPC I would also vote. Same with Molla.

Dom aside tell me why Skybird's posting is any better?

And I never said Firebringer was off the table either. BPC is dumb for the reasons you keep ignoring, and BBMolla is a transparent player and isn't transparently scum at the moment.

[znitzchel]

I'm still trying to get a handle on this game and pull together my reads list. We have 8 days so we don't have to rush anything here. More later, after dinner.

I'm rooting for you, I am, but voting your leading counterwagon right out the gate doesn't fill me with any confidence that you are "trying to get a handle". It was a panicky move for sure and lacked some real substance behind it.

znitzy, espy wants you to unvote and reccaliberate. can at least 1 of you do that? cos it seems weird that you guys are agreeing with him but not doing what he is politely asking you to do.

It'd be one thing if I was one of the flash wagoners he was rallying against, but I'm not.

I liked the tone of his post, but guess what guys, you've just set a standard I'm going to expect you to live up to now.

I am always on the table.

*Wink* *wink*

Anyways, Shazam is probably still lynch day 1.
I don't agree with other wagons right now. BPC neutral. Dom slot I would like to see what replacement says.
So ehh

This is the wrong game for your sexy advances babe*wink wink*

I talked to you about your approach early in the game about defending players without understanding why they are being accused, and now as we get later into the game you are wagoning players without demonstrating any knowledge of why the player is being wagoned. I don't get a true sense that you think Shazam is scum and that attitude is a problem.

[znitzchel]

Molla reads town to me, I don't like this counter wagon, I don't like how much resistance the Shazam wagon is meeting given none of his responses to pressure look remotely town, and Oversoul's vote being stolen looks like a direct attempt to further subvert the wagon on him.

But...do you like THIS counterwagon?

Vote: Xtoxm

[znitzchel]

It's funny considering SHAZAM IS THE COUNTERWAGON YOU SEE

[znitzchel]

You know when I said that BBMolla is a transparent player? Cause he's transparently town you see. Muffin looks like scum in that exchange using scum tactic after scum tactic to make Molla look bad. My favorite was the constant barage of questions, of which none had a correct answer that would have ever got them out of the exchange. Muffin knew this obviously, hoping he could make Molla look bad by asking BAD QUESTIONS with little to no context.

You know what else is funny? How we are suddenly one of Xtoxm's scumread for no reason...oh wait just kidding there is a reason....because I voted for him last night! It's like magic!

Skybird, Xtoxm, and Muffin are the only players that need to hang this day phase. Here you go Espe, I've narrowed down the lynch pool!

[znitzchel]

But...do you like THIS counterwagon?

Vote: Xtoxm

We're reading the game pretty different DGB. Groups are in no particular order.

Lynch pool

Skybird
Shazam
Kindness

Znitzchel

Heartless
Quaroath

This is of course what we in The Biz call caving to pressure. No mention of us all game (of course no mention of ANY of those scumreads other than Shazam either). Nope this reads was all about appeasing DGB (look we have different reads you should consider me an important piece of the gamestate!). That's why his list is completely random.

Fair enough Oversoul, but whoever is using that didn't put it in the most recent vote count so we can't find it.

[znitzchel]

BBMolla is transparently town, Muffin looks bad, most everyone agrees, it's time to move on. Can't believe they went through 8 pages of that shit over night.

[znitzchel]

Most of these are very surface level and narrative (IE scumlike). Can you expand on them at all?

[znitzchel]

This is a prod-dodge, because this part of the week is when Bone can't be active.

[znitzchel]

I'll be around later in the day but since we're talking about it Xtoxm is the superior lynch today so I'd like to put that forward as ultimately our preference today.

[znitzchel]

Heartless and Oversoul are things because...?

Someone help me out with end of day maintenance, obviously I have been unavailable for quite a bit (and so has ZZZX). I don't understand why Oversoul is scummy and getting votes, and I don't like the composition of Heartless' or Shazam's wagon right now (and also Shazam is probably town).

[znitzchel]

What the miller thing? That means next to nothing and gets into out-guessing the Mod territory. I also claimed Miller, did I stage that too?

I want some in-game reasons. Where was Heartless trying to manipulate anyone? Where were they pushing a scum agenda? Literally two out of three votes on there wagon are from playerslots I wouldn't trust to follow a lynch on right now, so I need more than "i don't like them" and "their claim looks staged", because you didn't demonstrate either thing to me.

[znitzchel]

I don't understand the train on Oversoul. Like we are voting a person who doesn't have a vote? I mean, I guess WIFOM the scum could do that to their own or OverSoul could be SK or something but I just don't see it that likely for Day 1 them to pull that gambit.

Conversely, do you see scum town-confirming Oversoul by publicly removing his vote?

Meh. Maybe someone had the ability and wanted to try it out. It might not mean much more then that.

So much this.

[znitzchel]

I don't know what Oversoul losing his vote has anything to do with his alignment though, unless you think he did it to himself to gain towncred (of which we really don't have the evidence to make that leap in logic anyway). I'm not townreading him by any means, but so far I've seen DGB go "his scum partner must have done it to give him towncred" and "Oversoul isn't playing to his meta wha" both of which are pretty meaningless accusations.

[znitzchel]

Wut?

[znitzchel]

What the fuck did I miss this?

(is this the part where I counter-counter claim?)

[znitzchel]

(no, no it's not don't worry)

[znitzchel]

Somehow, someway, a scum Heartless is going to fakeclaim Vezok's EXACT role? Wut? Like flavor in all (which is what Vezok is implying at least to me)?

[znitzchel]

I just hate the feeling of working with incomplete information. Had Vezok nor countered with "that's my exact role" I would have called it fake.

[znitzchel]

If I was to vote any of the claimed millers, based on their claim alone my first choice would be Znitzchel. All the others claimed miller in their first post, but they did it in response to the first two, and they were vague about their flavor.

As you might notice my claim came in my first post

after

the game started. The other three posts were just pre-game check ins by me and ZZZX. I don't consider pre-game posts to be apart of the game, so that's why I waited. For all we knew at that point the other players that claimed miller would have gone 'joking about that' in response to my real claim.

I don't understand the train on Oversoul. Like we are voting a person who doesn't have a vote? I mean, I guess WIFOM the scum could do that to their own or OverSoul could be SK or something but I just don't see it that likely for Day 1 them to pull that gambit.

Conversely, do you see scum town-confirming Oversoul by publicly removing his vote?

Meh. Maybe someone had the ability and wanted to try it out. It might not mean much more then that.

So much this.

NO. NOT "so much this." No one does that. NO.

Lots of players do it, I see it all the time (such as games I mod). In a role madness game it'll absolutely happen.

[znitzchel]

Then I dunno what you want from me.

[znitzchel]

This is intent.

[znitzchel]

VOTE: oversoul

self preservation yadayadadyadha /jazzhands

Thanks for taking my hammer, DICK

[znitzchel]

Was kinda waiting to see what Oversoul did before I dropped the hammer (and incidentally, the hammer, hammer)

[znitzchel]

STOP

MOAR HAMMER TIME

Vote: Oversoul

[znitzchel]

ima shoot dgb tonight

If this really happens I will stop trying to lynch you lololol

[znitzchel]

She had a heater shield that schorched anyone who visited her and has a vig ability.

Is it active/passive and did it not affect you?

[znitzchel]

Also kill with fire

VOTE: xtoxm

[znitzchel]

Hey, my role related reasons could be considered weak. It's certainly up to you what you want to do with that information. About Yosarian, though, I think he could be scum, but not the same team as Oversoul. Look at the interactions between the two on my wagon. Too openly buddy-buddy for scum on the same team, imo.

so you have reason to believe it is multiball?

by the way we are voting veegee for role related reasons, we don't have a guilty but molla was wonderful in supplying enough info that I am pretty sure veegee is scum unless some1 can come up with a better idea.

I have no more reason to believe it is multiball than the setup size. I've already said that my role (and what I did with it) gives me the picture that Xtoxm is scum, but I could be wrong.

And that is also good enough for me. VOTE: veegee

I have gameplay related reasons to think Xtoxm is scum, so I think it's worth exploring your reasons...

[znitzchel]

I don't mean outting your role, I mean discussing Xtoxm more openly. Night actions are cool and all, but we spend way more time playing in-thread than processing night actions so...

[znitzchel]

Scum could just as easily steal someone's vote just so they could make that argument

Mmm no. Too many layers of WIFOM here.

There was no way that a townie would have removed a vote so early in the game, and on OS to boot. That was designed to frame Shazam and/or make OS look townie. It was about the player and the timing, not the vote-steal by itself.

Except it was Shazam who did it...

[znitzchel]

We're waiting for VeeGee yes? 6 days....I think we're gonna be waiting awhile.

[znitzchel]

good luck!

[znitzchel]

Intent.

[znitzchel]

Intent.

Never hammer without a claim you fool!

Lol at ALL the hammering I have done.

Seriously, I know you did this purely for town cred and it's a little sad.

[znitzchel]

You know people default to masculine pronouns unconsciously mollie, it's pretty obvious who he's talking about.

With that said.

Vote: Firebringer

I brought this up yesterday, but I think Firebringer is just *trying* too hard to do townie things. It reminds me of my issues with him on Day 1. When he thinks no one is paying attention he tries to manipulate. When he gets called out on his scummy things he manipulates (you only need to look at his response to me saying this yesterday to see it).

Alternatively Xtoxm is still scummy too. I've been waiting to see if another player would corroborate his 'vanilized' claim, but I don't think that has happened. So I'm happy to vote here as well.

Also I'm about to go V/La starting Wednesday (which matters because I guess I'm going this hydra alone as well SIGH...), so I wanted to get these thoughts out early.

[znitzchel]

I also hard read Yos as town so there's an aspect of you're trying to lynch a protown player there. No we weren't that engaged during Day 2 so it may seem like this is out of left field, but this is a continuation from Day 1 mostly.

[znitzchel]

No, no, no, it's a language cue. You're using manipulative language to get a desired reaction from everyone else. Like right now rather than working through my understanding of you as a player in this game, working through why I would read Yosarian as town (things a townie should do), you're using dismissive language instead (like scum would do).

[znitzchel]

I don't see Yosorian as town for one thing. Hasn't done much since day 1 but semi-lurk and pretend to be active. I don't see how you see Yosorian as town, maybe Day 1 you could make a argument, before they stopped trying.

This. This right here. You've reduced Yosarian to a "semi-active lurker", which is not an accurate description of his play at all. There isn't anything there to suggest why you think he's scum, you're just suggesting some buzzwords to dismiss Yosarian's presence in the game as a lurker worthy of a lynch. Because you don't want anyone else to read too far into Yosarian and make a read for themselves. Do legitimate concerns about him exist? Sure, as they do every player town or scum. But you're not really doing anything with those concerns you are handwaving the playerslot as "a lurker". Your last post argues that "he still hasn't justified his vote", which is categorically a short-statement. These are manipulative actions not designed to convince anyone of anything, just to push a narrative you have created. And when I challenged you on this narrative you dismiss me with "this must be a Yosarian scumbuddy lololol".

[znitzchel]

No, no, no, it's a language cue. You're using manipulative language to get a desired reaction from everyone else. Like right now rather than working through my understanding of you as a player in this game, working through why I would read Yosarian as town (things a townie should do), you're using dismissive language instead (like scum would do).

So am I giving dismissive language or manipulative language? I am confused now on this.

Also, manipulative language is called persuasive language dude. I can be dismissive of your arguments, because I think its false. Also you are saying you never dismiss someones case on you that was blatantly false? What?

And you can also be dismissive because it's easier because you're scum. See? I can do this too.

And no when I'm town I try not to dismiss people just because they call me scum (though I instinctively trust them less, yes).

[znitzchel]

I'm not going to sit here and try to convince you that you are scum. I've demonstrated why I think you're scum, it's not up to you to decide if I'm wrong it's up to everyone else. What is up to you is for you to demonstrate your push on Yosarian is more than just buzzwords.

[znitzchel]

For those counting at home that is the 3rd time he's gone to the scum cliche well on this page. (i'm gonna be pissed if this is a page topper)

[znitzchel]

Firebringer
I already noted his connections to Oversoul in post #1226, and now that Disney UPick has ended, I can talk about his play there. In that game, Firebringer was pretty much crazy. His sins included bartering for his vote, threatening and then trying to hammer a player who had not claimed, not because he thought he was scum but to prove the town wrong, and finally grandstanding about how he had been cautious about it. By that point everyone was sick of his play and he was vigged on the first night. Here however that side of Firebringer has been almost completely absent. It is as if he is being cautious and avoiding attention.

This is bad and you should feel bad. "I'm suspicious of Firebringer because in this game he's being a competent player". At best that's insulting, and at worst that is heavy handed scum reasoning, I'm not sure how a rational player thinks this.

[znitzchel]

No Mollie, trust Yos is town.

[znitzchel]

Okay well I am getting back from v/la. I'll state some intent to hammer.

[znitzchel]

Sorry guys, life got busy again for me yesterday.

Verzok, I'm a watcher as previously stated in the thread. I also have the ability to roleblock someone and to stop someone from using a personal action. I am town, not scum.

Role name, flavor, other abilities? Can we get a complete claim here?

I'm a Troubador and a Weird Roleblocker. I can't be roleblocked easily, I block the first kill targeting me, I can't be tracked, and I'm aligned with the Guild of Dungeoneering.

"I'm a watcher. Now when asked to clarify I name a bunch of things that don't include watcher."

Wut?

[znitzchel]

Skybird is not the lynch for today. Choo choo on Firebringer now. Come on Yos, you know you want it. I don't see why we have to 'settle' on Skybird with 7+ days to go. This is a bad lynch.

[znitzchel]

I'm pretty painfully obviously town.

[znitzchel]

I don't think Skybird is the lynch today, so I am voicing my displeasure for it. It's up to the rest of the town to agree or not, but Yos is one of my strongest townreads so I am going to look to him to help me change the course of the day. I fail to see where you are confused by this.

[znitzchel]

She claimed fine? What are you referring to?

[znitzchel]

In my experience scum have their claims put together and well rehearsed. This is not what Skybird is doing at all.