Mini-Normal 1713: Mystery Mansion Mafia (GAME OVER)

[GrayFoxxxx]

Actually, I just found something I noted down last night.

I'm cool for a Octo lynch, pending a little reading.

I'm sure I'll be voting for octo, just want to reread a bit before I drop the vote.

I don't like Gray staying off the wagon here. I feel like he was staying off a wagon he knew was town to get towncred.
Along with all of the other things we've said time and time again, I feel this is the best option today.
VOTE: Grayfoxxxx

Jesus christ

[All Alone]

VT here.

I agree that Mario/Absta is the most likely scumteam here. None of the kills seem to be on players who suspected Grayfox, which is something I would definitely expect at some point if he was scum given how popular a scumread he's been this game. It's really unlikely that Grayfox is scum and hasn't shot a single townie who's suspected him. Especially with the Octopus kill coming after a "if Performer flips scum then Mario is scum" post, which suggests scum are willing to kill townies who suspect them. I don't think a Mario/Grayfox team would've killed Octopus N2, when Grayfox would've needed the help much more than Mario would've. Mario/Absta making that kill is a lot more sensible.

[SilverWolf]

Yeah, That makes sense and goes along with absta's surprise that I would check Mario since I was town reading him.

[GrayFoxxxx]

Don't like that SW puts Mario at L-2 and then says don't put him at L-1. Why vote him in the first place, if you are scared of that? So SW is saying absta is the other scum. Going to look at interactions.

[absta101]

Yeah, That makes sense and goes along with absta's surprise that I would check Mario since I was town reading him.

Well this situation doesn't make sense. I know i'm town so either you are lying or All alone/Wanderer is scum with Mario. If the former then well played, I don't see myself getting out of this miss lynch.

Wanderer might be confirmed town regardless of SW's alignment. If SW is scum, she would have to get a fake guilty on her scum partner or we would lynch her the next day for lying (therefore Mario is scum). If she is town then she has an innocent read on Wanderer and a guilty on Mario.

There could also be a mafia godfather. I'm not sure on that but it would make sense considering how many PRs we have in town. If this is the case then Wanderer is not confirmed town.

Now for the motivation for SW-scum to pull off this gambit. It has become apparent that Octopus was targeted by scum at night. This would only make sense coming from Mario or Wanderer considering he had them two as his biggest scum reads. Considering Wanderer was the first to vote Performer on the day he got lynched (amongst other reasons pointing to her being town) and the associative tells between Mario and Performer, I don't think SW-scum would have the confidence to push Wanderer as scum over Mario. SW wouldn't just keep quiet about this either, her chances of getting lynched after Mario was quite high.

*The way she jumped on the Performer wagon and then quickly came back off it after I pointed out her inconsistencies with that play is actually quite scummy.

Also, she hammered Performer really quickly after the intent. This doesn't show any uncertainty in her read of Performer which actually makes no sense considering her scum read on Performer was weak.

*This is what i'm referring to:

Spoiler:

VOTE: Performer

He reads as scum per ISO. I feel we are most likely to hit scum with this lynch.

@SilverWolf

No, and that worries me but I'm leaning against wanderer being scum due to her latest postings

When you say "leaning against" do you mean Wanderer is less of a scum read or has she become a slight town read? What about her recent play makes you think this?

It could be that one of the VTs is lying but I really don't want anyone else run up to a claim because all this does is help scum at this point. I'd actually like to lynch one of the VT claims for this reason alone.

Considering you said this earlier, your read on Performer must be pretty strong for you to take this risk and lynch him. But then you say:

So, Performer it is then. At least IMO.

I'm open to other ideas.

It doesn't exactly sound so strong of a read.

grrrrrr...................grayfoxxxx is posting elsewhere and hasn't done jack shit here despite promising several times. Fuck that shit.

Contribute or die.

VOTE: grayfoxxxx

After SW has gotten Mario lynched today, she would most likely kill Davsto at night seeing as he is confirmed town regardless. That would leave her at 1 vs 4 town tomorrow. SW would then obviously use the WIFOM defence as her reason for still being alive and she'd be right to. SW being alive tomorrow is a null tell but it might clear some players. I'm going to think about that some more but the most obvious person that wouldn't mind her being alive is the Godfather. If there is a godfather, all the town innocent reads from town-SW mean nothing. Anyway, after this, SW scum will call an innocent on me/All alone and lynch the other. She would then kill someone at night leaving her at 1 v 2.

This play is actually way better then just sitting quietly today and hoping she doesn't get lynched tomorrow. Claiming cop tomorrow isn't nearly as good as doing it today. Seeing as Mario was the most likely lynch candidate today, she wouldn't have gotten the town credit if she claimed cop tomorrow (due to her not being able to call a guilty on Mario).
--

Lynch Mario today for sure, he is pretty much confirmed scum. I need to go back and see who else looks like they could be partners with Mario/Performer. Right now SW is the most likely but there could easily be some GodFather.

[Fraggernaut]

Vote Count 4.01

Grayfoxxxx (2) - Davsto, MarioManiac4
MarioManiac4 (2) - All Alone, SilverWolf


Not Voting (3) -Wanderer-nl, absta101, Grayfoxxxx

With 7 alive It takes 4 to Lynch.

Deadline is 10/07/2015 @ 12:30 AM EST

[absta101]

Why did you claim?

Not sure why scum Performer would claim VT because it increases the chance of your lynch.

This is what she was saying to Performer. This could easily be SW showing her frustration that Performer didn't claim a PR role like he should have. She is also using this as a slight defence of Performer.

Really Octupus. You don't think Gray or Performer should make it to lylo but you want Wanderer lynched instead, which would likely put us in mylo if she's town. Makes no sense to me.

You must really believe she's scum or you are scum with Gray and Performer.

I don't get all this resistance to a Gray lynch. He's awfully eager to lynch Performer.

Could be looking for that towncred if Performer is his buddy going down anyway.

This accusation on Octopus is complete bullshit actually. There absolutely no reason for her to even mention the possibility of Octopus-Performer scum team (just because he was voting Wanderer instead). This looks forced, as if she knows Performer will flip scum and she wants to already start pointing out associations for later use. She does the exact same thing with GrayFox as well.

[SilverWolf]

I'm at work, phone posting, so I don't have time to respond to all the BS absta is going to throw at me now. Just know this. Scum would be throwing the game if they didn't shoot me tonight because my result will solve the game if they let me live. Just lynch Mario and I'll flip town cop and lynch absta next as he is doing exactly what scum would do here in order to stand a chance at all.

[MarioManiac4]

WTF?
I'm a 2-shot Commuter.
I commuted last night, but still have a commute.

[absta101]

@SW

Also, A lot of my play yesterday was me trying to avoid being too town so I wasn't NK'd. If you are wondering about crumbs here ya go:

From 401

First, Davsto is town.

This isn't believable at all. If you actually read the whole post, it doesn't look like a crumb at all. You don't have to be a cop with a town result on Davsto to say this:

First, Davsto is town. There is just no way in hell scum would start D2 off with a fakeclaim of vig and to claim being blocked and then to to go after grayfoxxxx of all people. I think the early claim and the eagerness in it, thinking he could get us a scum, was very townie.

How does this suggest that you are a town cop?

I'm not even going to discuss the other crumb you mentioned regarding "your role pm".

[SilverWolf]

LOL You guys are cute. At least we for sure know who the last two scum are.

[absta101]

WTF?
I'm a 2-shot Commuter.
I commuted last night, but still have a commute.

So you are asking us to believe that town has a JK, 1-shot Vig, normal Cop and a 2-shot Commuter. Also, why aren't you voting SW? She has a guilty claim on you...

[Wanderer-nl]

Looking at all the vc's, if I had to choose between absta and all alone, I'd say All Alone is scum because they moved their vote from me to Performer, while I started that wagon. That seems a little weird.
Now I was looking at this before I saw Mario's claim, and the fact Silverwolf was hesitant to lynch Performer all day until she hammered bothered me, but her saying she played scummy on purpose made me push that thought away. Now with Mario's claim and Silverwolf vs absta, I think I'm just going to ignore the entire claim and read some iso's and make my reads based on that.

It also bothers me she says I'm a vt

and

town. VT is a townrole: vanilla

TOWN

but I guess she's doing it on purpose because the entire mix-up always looked awkward and now she is just trying to maintain and I'm sure she knows better.

Nobody better be at L-1 before I get back to do my reads.

[SilverWolf]

I'm almost willing to let you lynch me so my town cop flip will show the truth, but that would probably be more antiwincon than investigating tonight would be.

[MarioManiac4]

LOL You guys are cute. At least we for sure know who the last two scum are.

So you're eiher scum or blacklist worhy then.
That tone is not a town one. It's a condescnding one.
VOTE: SW

[absta101]

If SW is town, one of the scum is most likely going to be a Godfather or Framer. If that is the case, the scum player can easily let SW live tonight and kill Davsto (unless Mario is that scum). However, all SW has to do is get a guilty on either me or All alone and she will automatically be confirmed town-cop because either one of us got framed or we are indeed scum.

Basically, all we know for sure is that scum-SW will not call a guilty tonight.

[Davsto]

UNVOTE:
Gonna be honest SilverWolf, I was considering Mario anyway for his Chainsaw Defending of Performer D1, when I was suspicious of Performer and as a result Mario started going after me.

Also, I understand that you're annoyed that you didn't get a result yesterday, but now you have a town result on Wanderer, who I'm thinking we had a good chance of lynching later on in the day.

Consider this an unhammerable L-1 on Mario or something because I'm not voting because yesterdays speedlynch took so much out of me.

[Wanderer-nl]

WTF?
I'm a 2-shot Commuter.
I commuted last night, but still have a commute.

What made you decide to use your power to commute last night?

I'll post more after dinner.

[Wanderer-nl]

Looking at all the vc's, if I had to choose between absta and all alone, I'd say All Alone is scum because they moved their vote from me to Performer, while I started that wagon. That seems a little weird.

Silverwolf, can you give me your opinion on this please?

[SilverWolf]

Don't like that SW puts Mario at L-2 and then says don't put him at L-1. Why vote him in the first place, if you are scared of that? So SW is saying absta is the other scum. Going to look at interactions.

Right, I'm a cop with a guilty on Mario. Of course, I'm gonna vote him. I figured with my rant at the beginning of the day, my warning about not putting him at L-1, and after the turbolynch yesterday, town would be smart enough to hold back and if a quickhammer happened, the last scum would give themselves away.

You see, I don't do anything without a purpose. Try thinking outside the box once in awhile.

[SilverWolf]

It also bothers me she says I'm a vt

and

town. VT is a townrole: vanilla

TOWN

but I guess she's doing it on purpose because the entire mix-up always looked awkward and now she is just trying to maintain and I'm sure she knows better.

Of all the things to harp on me about. I already explained this to Grayfoxxxx earlier in the game. Town is alignment. VT is role. Plus, my result on you came back as Town, not VT. So yeah, this is something I'm most likely gonna differentiate here. You see, not everyone who claims VT is actually town so I'm not gonna assume someone is town because they say VT. VT is just what someone claims. It doesn't confirm them as town. What confirms someone is town is the mod saying so, the flip, or a cop inno-although in the case of an GF, that wouldn't even matter. I don't believe you are a GF based on voting patterns and behavior this game, I feel safe with having you as town. Grayfoxxxx too for reasons I've stated. Neither of you is likely to be the last scum. It is either absta or All Alone and I'll get into that soonish here.

[SilverWolf]

LOL You guys are cute. At least we for sure know who the last two scum are.

So you're eiher scum or blacklist worhy then.
That tone is not a town one. It's a condescnding one.
VOTE: SW

This outrage is as fake as your claim.

A 2 shot commuter doesn't fit into a set-up with a JailKeeper because a JK is a kill stopping role just like BP would be or a roleblocker would be which in town's case, is a Jailkeeper.

So no, I wouldn't even waste time talking about Mario's fakeclaim here since he in confirmed scum.

[SilverWolf]

Looking at all the vc's, if I had to choose between absta and all alone, I'd say All Alone is scum because they moved their vote from me to Performer, while I started that wagon. That seems a little weird.

Silverwolf, can you give me your opinion on this please?

I have no idea why a scum!All Alone would take her vote off an easy mislynch-I mean you were under a lot of suspicion-and put it on one of her buddies. That doesn't make sense from a scum perspective.

I will re-ISO her to make sure and absta too but I am leaning absta as last scum based on his reaction to my claim. I mean, he pretty much said I'm scum with Mario and fakeclaimed cop to frame my buddy and somehow I have 3 results, every night I live I'll have to have more (plus, a reason to be alive) and when those people keep flipping town, somehow I'd survive LyLo and win the game. Like, In what Universe does this even make sense as scum play? Then he talks about my scummy play which I already explained was because CDB's hard townread on me was making me nervous about being the NK. Then he says me claiming cop today makes sense instead of tomorrow-hell, I would of claimed it yesterday if given a chance. absta is setting up a 1v1 with me where All Alone calmly explained why absta and mario make sense as a team from a NK analysis standpoint. She was also the second vote on the Performer wagon which is more likely to be town than scum from what I've seen in games. I'm not ruling out bussing, but I don't think that is super highly likely either.

[SilverWolf]

If SW is town, one of the scum is most likely going to be a Godfather or Framer. If that is the case, the scum player can easily let SW live tonight and kill Davsto (unless Mario is that scum). However, all SW has to do is get a guilty on either me or All alone and she will automatically be confirmed town-cop because either one of us got framed or we are indeed scum.

Basically, all we know for sure is that scum-SW will not call a guilty tonight.

A Framer isn't Normal and isn't going to be in this game:

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Normal_Game

Roles which are explicitly Non-Normal include:
Non-Sane Cop, Blank Vig, Non-Sane or Quack Doctor, Janitor, Survivor, Lyncher, Cultist, Jester, Mafia Mason, Bus Driver, Lightning Rod, Nexus, Redirector,

Framer

, Vanillaizer, Beloved Princess, Arsonist, Governor

Second, if there is a GF, I highly doubt it's someone I've already gotten a result on. I would refute the rest of your points on me, but I don't like arguing with likely scum.

I will be investigating one of you or All Alone (who is for me to know, and scum to wonder about) and I will likely die. Town will have to lynch you or All Alone the next day.

Let's see here:

Mario-today's lynch

Davsto-Town

Wanderer-Town

Grayfoxxxx-Town

All Alone-maybe Town

absta-maybe Scum

Me-Town-tonight's NK

Tomorrow 1 scum vs 4 town. Say absta is lynched (hopefully this ends the game) BUT if I'm wrong and he's town, then Davsto dies overnight.

Next day will be Lylo with 1 scum vs 2 town and you lynch All Alone then and Town wins. This is for Grayfoxxxx and Wanderer.

If Grayfoxxxx is scum or Wanderer is GF, then scum wins. I don't see this as likely.

We can spend a little time trying to see if the absta-All Alone order is good or not but otherwise, this is what I suggest town does going forward.

[Wanderer-nl]

I saw that from absta and that's why I changed my mind. And that's also why I quoted a small part from my previous post for you to answer.

(And in my experience VT is explicitly a town-role. The mafia vanilla-counterpart is vanilla goon)