NY 190: Molla's Large Normal

[Aj The Epic]

/confirm

Hydras confirmed half-people by bbmola.

[Aj The Epic]

Vote:FA_Q2

I almost want to place a bet on you showing up.

[Aj The Epic]

Oh wait, you actually confirmed.

[Aj The Epic]

Alrighty cool. I don't think I've ever played with you before so new people.

[Aj The Epic]

Posted the gif. It's a well known town tell to post a gif of a dancing... four legged scribble.

[Aj The Epic]

I mean, these are all great questions but the important one is, am I not being informed of a hidden cat-avatar posting convention?

Define "normal"? It's allowed, and common enough, though in Normal games I think a single group scum faction is more typical (I haven't actually checked any sort of numbers on this though). I'm not sure how that would affect how you'd play on a day 1?

My play is normally based off townhunting, but having 2 groupscum factions usually throws the things i would pick on out of the window since both factions would also be scumhunting, if there's a high chance this isn't multifaction then i can just play like i do, on multifaction games i would probably revert to scumhunting like i used to.

[Aj The Epic]

I meant to respond to luna fox.

Basically multi-factions just means that town goes into a 'lynch any mistep' mode. It actually works pretty well because everyone who's scummy dies both at night and in the day bar known town power roles or basic confirmed towns. I wouldn't even bother with wondering about it until D2 because it generally works itself out while both factions exist.

[Aj The Epic]

'Topic'. Call me when it's L-1 and I might care.

[Aj The Epic]

@choof: tell me more about your signature.

the following should be read as out-of-game information

I am on new medication that's regulating my bipolar disorder. my meta from older games are invalid because of it.

I think you're just using a random quote to draw a parallel but I want to make sure: Is that an accidental misquote?

Let me put it this way.

Do you like Aj's vote on FAQ? You said you felt it was RVS but has he done anything with it? Why would he not?

"Random" voting stage is just as it says to me. So I found someone to vote for and did. The entire comment about Fa_Q2's activity level can't really be explained now but suffice to say I generally am active in the replacement queue. As to why I didn't switch it, I don't feel a need to. I doubt fa_q2 is worried about it and I generally like to weather the storm until we're done with RVS.

[Aj The Epic]

No and I've not said that or implied that anywhere. As I said, I generally just wait for RVS to pass.

[Aj The Epic]

I said I'd care about the wagon at L-1, not that I'd start contributing at L-1.

I make any assessments about RVS later. It's a necessary part of the game to get people involved and start the game. However, I don't think much of the going-ons unless there's something blatant.

[Aj The Epic]

And I've been engaging in discussion. Your point?

Or is this just another iteration of Fox News?

[Aj The Epic]

Also i don't think im liking choof anymore. For someone accusing Banana of being self conscious he's being self conscious himself.

can you explain what you mean by 'self-conscious'? I looked multiple times and there's nothing in that exchange where choof calls banana for being self-conscious.

Also, can you explain why none of your votes are your own thought? So far the last two votes I see from you are someone else's opinion that you're sheeping.

[Aj The Epic]

But you... initially... weren't liking choof.

Unless you're implying that you prefer his current attitude?

[Aj The Epic]

Right here Mr Cube.

I'll have you know I was about to take that as an insult.
From Luna:

My thought process
>initially liked choof because he asked me a question which i thought was with the intention of helping him read me.
>choof and banana engage in their 1v1, in one of the quoted posts i realized that choof was being self conscious while accusing banana of the same.
>this removes my townread on choof and I vote to engage further
>choof ignores me and continues engaging with banana posts a scumread on both and votes someone else.
>this makes me think he's being dishonest with his posting but i've been wrong about assumptions before so i ask.
>he says he prefers IaI for active lurking.
>I see this as a valid reason and i start to doubt my scumread on him and banana vs choof start looking like TvT to me.
>he says to banana that he can't lynch him without a case.
>this is something i see scum caught for the wrong reasons say all the time, why can't he be lynched just because someone thinks he's scum?
>so im back to scumreading him.

So what you're essentially saying is in his next post you'll be town reading him. If his post on IaI was all it took to swing him from a scum read to a town read, your read on him is flimsier than papyrus.

So is he your strongest scum read, since you are voting for him? Because I see more waffling than actual sincere belief that he's scum.

P-Edit: I really don't like this sort of appeasement. Currently anyone engaged in discussion seems to be reading town to you and at least two instances of you declaring someone as town is after they've come after you.

[Aj The Epic]

P-Edit: I really don't like this sort of appeasement. Currently anyone engaged in discussion seems to be reading town to you and at least two instances of you declaring someone as town is after they've come after you.

It makes sense that when i see ppl actually trying to figure me out is most likely to come from town, since scum would be all over me by now (i think)

Vote:Luna

This can't stand as a mentality. Deflection here is dangerous in the sense that you essentially just stated "Scum will vote for me". More importantly, as I stated before, I don't like the apathy and agreement. The appeal to those who try to make points against you to which you simply admit and then read them as town. The lack of a solid read for fear of ruffling feathers. It all just screams a lack of wanting commitment on any sort of level.

The game's nature is to make decisions and pay the consequence for them. Trying to circumvent that by compliance and agreement is the exact definition of counterproductive to the town. And did I mention I really, really hate this general docility?

[Aj The Epic]

I honestly think you 2 are town now

Unvote

(How's that for appeasing Aj?)

I hear it's factually proven if you call everyone in the thread town, you will be correct the majority of the time.
It's also factually proven that you have about an 84% chance to survive Russian roulette.

159 was fine, it doesn't strike me either way. Frankly think the "flip flop" in 180 is probably more likely to come from town. Not sure how you're not understanding 182, she's just saying banana needs to prove you're scum, not that you need to prove you're town. Which makes sense, and also is fairly nullish. Could probably defend her better but I'd need a few moments.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: TheWorst

Thought about it for a few, decided I like this better than Aj.

Think kyubey, choof are likely town. Don't really like banana's posts overall, tunnel seems overaggressive for what it is and some such as 108 don't read as authentic to me. Would lean more towards scum there.

Must've been a real tough conversation especially with the reasoning given:

104 from TheWorst is AWFUL.

Entirely overcautious, manages to say virtually nothing

. Justification of the vote is absolutely terrible, entirely self-evident that Innocent felt he had valid reasons for making the vote regardless of anyone else's vote (and my vote sure as hell isn't "random"). Lousy, forced reasoning.

You've read Luna's iso, right?
Also, you call "RVS is over" a "valid reason" (actually, you consider that reason plural, counting is hard) to vote me. Sure, I completely enjoy this line of thought.

Accomplishes nothing.

objectively incorrect

Agreed. You both have managed to make the last few pages a waste but I imagine at least one of you sated your ego a bit.

[Aj The Epic]

The post you support. "She's a real beaut" ~Steve Irwin

No and I've not said that or implied that anywhere. As I said, I generally just wait for RVS to pass.

Newsflash, RVS is over.

vote AJ

The 'implicit thought-line'... Oh... OH? OH GOD IT'S SO IMPLIED IT'S BURNING ME. IT'S ALMOST AS IF YOU SHOULD TAKE THE VOTE AT FACE VALUE! MIGHT HE HAVE REALLY MEANT THAT RVS.... was over?

I mean, you can't even point to another post. There's 4 of them, since I counted, and none of them have any relevance here. So catboi, the real pressing question is: Are you a mind reader?

To which the answer is no and I'd like to know how you're stating with so much faith that you understand this hidden implied meaning IAI is sticking behind this deep post. It's almost as if you took his post, made an apple an orange then called it a mango to attack wicked with. IaI's post was exactly as wicked said:

He said RVS was over and voted for an RVS wagon.

Like I could put that in direct quotes for wicked and you can reference that to the post above. And so he's justifying his vote for no reason? No, says I! You simply have to use the

implict thought-line

to find the true meaning of Wicked's vote.

And really, if it is such a misrepresentation to for me to say that you say IaI's post's contain valid reasons, why did you say that exact phrase?

So this being said, what say you, catboi?


P-edit: Oh do I cry over my shortcomings, m'Lord catboi. Forgive this humble Stooge for his inability to quoth the Raven every time and squander upon thee needless hours and precious space of thine's electronic cellars for the holiest of your words which does so exist on the same scroll! This servant so humbly wished only for thine master's blessings in being short, as I am, and concise, which I do so fail to be! Shall it be twenty lashings for this failure stooge?

[Aj The Epic]

No and I've not said that or implied that anywhere. As I said, I generally just wait for RVS to pass.

I'll try to take this at face value but I hope you can understand my problem.

You say you're not interested in RVS, but you drop an RVS vote with an RVS reason. And then engage in a little banter about Cat avatars and squiggles.
So you in fact are participating in RVS, just doing nothing to propel the game out of it.

I've been sorta-skimming along on mobile at work, so I know after this point when you're feeling pressure of a few votes, your entire attitude changes and you transform into a quite agressive poster targeting I think Luna.
So that gels with wanting to wait until RVS is over, I suppose. But it does seem rather more reactionary than insightful, at least on the surface. I'll need to read your reasoning in more detail.

But I just wonder why you'd bother dropping a vote which is completely and utterly useless, rather than simply withholding your vote until you saw a good use for it.
It seems like a good way to try to blend in and avoid attention. Or maybe distance from a buddy.

However, I realise you've posted more so will catch up.

My understanding of RVS comes from failing it multiple times. You vote, talk about random shit and wait for people to say it's over.

Now, what I like about RVS is when I replace in, I can look at wagons and try to figure out motives in the light of other posts down the line. However, don't expect me to be good at it. I almost got lynched my first game on site claiming I wouldn't drop a vote because I thought RVS was stupid. Pirate_Mollie and Mastin2 had other opinions about it. Since it's random voting, I generally do what I know: just drop a vote and talk for a while.

As for me playing aggressively, once I start you might as well get used to it. If I see something I don't like, I generally hound it. There's two reasons for it: 1.) if you start calling people on misteps, it helps prevent apathy and the town won't go silent. 2.) It will help you understand my stance on everything and it also helps me get answers.

Anyways, to me everyone is guilty until proven innocent. Which is absolutely why I hate what Luna's doing.

@Aj:

What do you think of 216?

"Blah blah blah friend me on facebook blah blah blah I'll try harder".
A lot of fluff but at least he didn't call you town. There hasn't been a lot of content from him but we could say the same for IaI, Luna and ESPECIALLY Zakk. In fact, I almost forget he's in the game but for the fact that he posted 224, which made me read talah's question again (Hint: It's not exactly easy on this one's small brain).

I mean, you can't even point to another post. There's 4 of them, since I counted, and none of them have any relevance here. So catboi, the real pressing question is: Are you a mind reader?

To which the answer is no and I'd like to know how you're stating with so much faith that you understand this hidden implied meaning IAI is sticking behind this deep post. It's almost as if you took his post, made an apple an orange then called it a mango to attack wicked with. IaI's post was exactly as wicked said: He said RVS was over and voted for an RVS wagon. Like I could put that in direct quotes for wicked and you can reference that to the post above. And so he's justifying his vote for no reason? No, says I! You simply have to use the implict thought-line to find the true meaning of Wicked's vote.

And really, if it is such a misrepresentation to for me to say that you say IaI's post's contain valid reasons, why did you say that exact phrase?

So this being said, what say you, catboi?


P-edit: Oh do I cry over my shortcomings, m'Lord catboi. Forgive this humble Stooge for his inability to quoth the Raven every time and squander upon thee needless hours and precious space of thine's electronic cellars for the holiest of your words which does so exist on the same scroll! This servant so humbly wished only for thine master's blessings in being short, as I am, and concise, which I do so fail to be! Shall it be twenty lashings for this failure stooge?

Touchy, aren't you~

His vote was clearly serious. I don't know his exact reasons, of course, but he found your posts scummy, quite possibly for the same reasons I did. That's not hard to figure out. Sometimes people don't need to justify votes right away. Trying to paint it as an "RVS wagon" is willfully ignoring the facts.

I never have claimed his reasons are valid, as I do not know them (though they may be). I said they believed their reasoning was valid. That is also very easy to see and understand. I was literally going to make the same joke about RVS being over, because I was serious. (of course, this kind of groupthink is something easily latched on to by experienced scum. I explicitly don't have a read on IaI because of this.)

So please don't freak out when I ask you this: are you just being dense, or are you scum? I've tried to be as clear as possible in explaining what I mean. I really don't think it's that hard to parse " entirely self-evident that

Innocent felt he had valid reasons

for making the vote regardless of anyone else's vote". Are you having trouble understanding this sentence? I'm not saying in there at all I think their reasons are valid. That's not the way their sentence is structured. I'm saying IaI thought he had a valid reason to vote, or in other words, that his vote was serious. Which is...exactly what he said?

I thought that would be clear the first time I explained it to you. My kneejerk reaction is to call you scum trying to attack me by misrepresenting my statement, but that's because I didn't like the way you started the game and I'm biased against you. I can't really know if you're having trouble with reading comprehension for some reason (this is not intended as an insult), so I've tried to explain it as clearly as possible. Do you understand what I am saying with regard to his vote?


Lastly, over the top sarcasm in response to me criticizing that you seem to be picking and choosing parts of my post to respond to...is also a bad look. :3

I think I might start erasing random sentences so you can think it's scummy but actually have to read my quotes to notice.

In my defense, not needing to justify a vote right away might suggest to do it in the near future in which he's had 130 posts and about a day to do so. I don't question him being serious, I don't remember IaI joking much in the one or two games I played with him. However, it was clearly an RVS wagon.

Loaded question aside, I think I interpreted what you said as you saying IaI's reasons were valid as opposed to IaI felt his reason(

-> still not giving him credit for any other reasons until he says them) were valid.

I rarely post whole quotes unless the whole quote is relevant. Less quote space is less overall clutter. They're generally linked though.

Aj saying appeasement is like a scumtell, by itself, I don't think so....

*inserts obviously cut quote with only relevant parts only partially because passive-aggressive responses are necessary given above context*

Oh come on, appeasement on a large scale is an easy scum tell for beginner scum. A lot of people who are uncomfortable with the role think the best option is to not draw attention to themselves. They'll not step on any fingers, not make any assertions about someone being scum unless it's a popular opinion and in general try to avoid being one of the focuses of conversation. It also is a terrible way to look for scum since calling someone town is almost never going to get a thoughtful answer from that person. More importantly, it's really fucking hard to argue with someone agrees with you all the time.

Sure, I often have the mentality that bad for the town might as well be scum and I think that appeasement as a policy is absolutely wretched. However, if you want to see this as a scum tell, go play a few beginner games and only vote for players who appease (unless they're mentors, in which case those guys are hopefully better at playing scum). I guarantee you win. Hell, even some advanced players I love to play with have an awful time as scum and try to avoid conflict because of it. If you have low comfort as scum, this is an easy scum tell.

Am I making an assumption about Luna's comfort level? Absolutely. I was about to make a comment about her join date (even with offsite experience, it probably can't be too much more than 2 years) but then I noticed only IaI, catboi, talah, myself and in the game have over two years onsite. My point still stands.

[Aj The Epic]

The people I consider to be town will be actively looking for scum. At the end of the day, the objective is to find the person we need to get rid of, and the people who are town will largely reveal themselves without us having to hunt them out.

[Aj The Epic]

I cut off "my play is townhunting" and read the rest of it.

Thinking on it now, I even posted a solution in such a way that suggested scumhunting, though.

At the end of the day, the objective is to find the person we need to get rid of, and the people who are town will largely reveal themselves without us having to hunt them out.

you don't think clearing someone as town benefits scumhunting? process of elimination? or, since you think that everyone is guilty until proven innocent, do you read townhunting as attempts to pocket players?

I'm a firm believer that town players will reveal themselves. Townhunting is largely useless to me because you shouldn't have a lynch 'pool' because as soon as you're incorrect in your town hunting, you lose. Especially for me because I'm very adamant in my choices.

[Aj The Epic]

Okay, then when do you plan to have enough town reads to pick out scum? Remember we are lynching every day.

[Aj The Epic]

Are you guys just gonna ignore what FA_Q did, or are you just gonna tunnelvision on me.
Tell me in advance so i know if i should just ignore you the rest of the game.

I still am trying to figure out what Kallah said.

And you know I don't like the fact you only have town reads and the fact that many people who have attacked you, you agree with and call town.

P-edit am not reading wickeds yet, I'm in the middle of a quiz and my computer finally loaded next question.

[Aj The Epic]

Does anyone here agree with what I said just a little bit? Cause if I'm wrong I would greatly appreciate the feedback.

Looking for opinions here, the tone shown is of genuine concern and looking for other's input in case he's wrong, i don't see this kind of thing come from scum very often, but i think i prefer to say he's town for it as of now, than fill my head with paranoia later.

See I read this as someone needing almost a message of consent to continue on their way. If you're trying to 'fit in', you'll want your opinion to be in line with what the town believes. I don't see town caring about this because they have nothing to prove. As for the actual notion of making sure that he's If no one agrees with you, your wagon won't get votes. His post sounds confident until he metaphorically looks around and asks for someone else to confirm.

Being confident and not needing someone else's opinion on what you see is more the sign of a townie than needing someone else's consent to think what you want.

[Aj The Epic]

And by this, I'm referring to Kyub's post and not yours. Just in case we're going to have any ambiguity issues.

[Aj The Epic]

Meh. This with Luna isn't going anywhere anyways.

Alright, I have a proposition: Carrying dead weight into future days recently lost the town in one of my games (Micro 503). Town never got active (not an issue here) and a VI survived all the way until I replaced in and saw his posting as counterproductive to the town. Had one scum get by me because comparing resumes just meant the scum was higher% to be town. Really, if you read the game there's like nothing that makes the guy who avoids to L-1 lynches to be town.

That brings me to Zakk and Veegee. I completely trust IaI to say something eventually that's meaningful so I'm not including him. Look at these two's isos, find me something useful. If they aren't going to post, I propose they die. In this case, Luna gets an extra day to produce some scum reads, we get rid of dead weight and I get another day to be completely cynical and go get more scum reads.

Of the two, I have to say Veegee is worse. He has zero content and no votes. Both are pretty much at zero content so it's nitpicking to me.

Vote:Veegee

[Aj The Epic]

Anyways, to me everyone is guilty until proven innocent. Which is absolutely why I hate what Luna's doing.

"Blah blah blah friend me on facebook blah blah blah I'll try harder".
A lot of fluff but at least he didn't call you town. There hasn't been a lot of content from him but we could say the same for IaI, Luna and ESPECIALLY Zakk. In fact, I almost forget he's in the game but for the fact that he posted 224, which made me read talah's question again (Hint: It's not exactly easy on this one's small brain).

Wrong answer - whole post comes across as weak and a lot closer to appeasement than what you're going after, given it's mostly making excuses and promising content later.

Whether you like it or not, townhunting is absolutely a valid strategy that's useful for winning games. If anything, real towntells tend to be more accurate than scumtells. If you took objection to her reasoning for her reads I'd maybe understand but this looks a lot more like an objection to a playstyle than anything else, which isn't good process at all. I don't really want to steer this into Mafia Discussion territory here but even though I think you believe what you're going after, you're way off the mark.

I did a little bit of a meta read and have some comparable games to see that this is in fact simply how she plays. I don't like it as a main style because I still think it equates to one misread == potential loss if your words hold enough sway. And I still believe that town will reveal themselves by actions whether you look or not. I dislike these two posts in particular 31 and 151 (calling banana and kyubi town [respectively] for their suspicions on her) but it's not worth pursuing right now. Especially 31, which came off what was probably a random vote.

Alright, I have a proposition: Carrying dead weight into future days recently lost the town in one of my games (Micro 503). Town never got active (not an issue here) and a VI survived all the way until I replaced in and saw his posting as counterproductive to the town. Had one scum get by me because comparing resumes just meant the scum was higher% to be town. Really, if you read the game there's like nothing that makes the guy who avoids to L-1 lynches to be town.

okay, a few questions for you.
would you like to see the "dead weight" lynched before they have a chance to be replaced out?
do you think we would hit scum if we lynch "dead weight"
what happens if the "dead weight" is actively lurking and claims at L-1? would you like to see them lynched then?
would you hold it against someone if the "dead weight" got derphammered?

1.) They're not exactly afk. Zakk and Leegee have posted, it's just what they post has amounted to nothing. So they aren't in danger of getting replaced.
2.) No. I think lurkers have a higher % to be scum but it certainly isn't indicative. However, it's anti-town. Which is the next best thing.
3.) Depends on the claim. If it takes them to L-1 to claim, we have an entirely different issue on our hands.
4.) Yes, as I would in any lynch.

someone find the post where aj talks about scumhunting because I don't think advocating a policy lynch this early on constitutes scumhunting

What catboi said. It isn't scumhunting. Policy lynches are the janitorial duty of mafia games. It's so much better if you don't have to do them but if it becomes neccessary it HAS TO BE DONE. Ignoring it and they survive into difficult situations like Mylo/Lylo or simply remain and cause there to be no activity whatsoever. In many cases, since you have no information to go off of, they're as bad as scum.

If they become active, then we've solved this issue and can move on

. However, I don't want to let something like this go. And we all have our positions on players in this game who actively participate. If they aren't going to afk, then we can give them time to shape up or show their true colors. Specifically, if Luna finally gets to a point where she can develop scum reads, this would be net positive for me so I could finally say I agree/disagree and for what reasons.

[Aj The Epic]

1.) They're not exactly afk. Zakk and Leegee have posted, it's just what they post has amounted to nothing. So they aren't in danger of getting replaced.
2.) No. I think lurkers have a higher % to be scum but it certainly isn't indicative. However, it's anti-town. Which is the next best thing.
3.) Depends on the claim. If it takes them to L-1 to claim, we have an entirely different issue on our hands.
4.) Yes, as I would in any lynch.

I still think it's far too early to be attempt a wagon/lynch on inactive players. even if you think that lurkers have a higher chance at being scum, a mislynch is a mislynch. I would much rather leave policy lynches until much further down the line.
what issues are you thinking about in regards to a claim at L-1? I don't see how that's inherently bad, especially if there's discussion going on and someone can pull a vote off before they get derp hammered. a claim around L-2 would probably be a lot safer, though.

Worded it wrong. It should've read "if it takes them to L-1 to

post

then we have an entirely different issue on our hands.

As for now/later, tomorrow we'll have more reason to believe x to be scum and y to be town and they'll be more pressing than today. If you have to 'waste a lynch', do it day 1. I would be d1 has the highest mislynch rate anyways. Less information, no flips (even NK is somewhat usable) and limited information.

So many pages

Is AJ close to dead yet

Jesus died for your sins but I'm certainly not dying for your inactivity.

[Aj The Epic]

Admittedly I

still

haven't figured out what you were trying to say in 223. I eventually gave up on the grounds that it probably wasn't important.

As for Faq, I had filed his comment away as just kinda stupid. Ofc there's pre-chat: I think every game I've played on site had it.

[Aj The Epic]

I'm guessing you're town on what could be completely incorrect game meta which is that the person you replaced did not pick up their role PM.

Ergo no full scumteam to chat pre-game, ergo unfair on the scumteam.

Like the only thing I've been able to infer from this is that you're saying the game wouldn't start if that slot didn't confirm? (And that scum would need both people there to be able to chat in QT before going ahead?)

If you're trying to say something else, please reword it quickly.

[Aj The Epic]

@Mod: My vote moved to veegee a while ago. I think TheWorst isn't on the wagon (mine would've been first).

[Aj The Epic]

Nevermind, I'm the second vote on Veegee. I voted shortly after last VC

[Aj The Epic]

The game had Maestro, not mastin. It was a beginner game where Mollie, Maestro were SE, I was new to the site (had 2 years off site), Rob was my scum partner and Nacho eventually replaced in. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=23940

There's a good number of games where I just suck at RVS and it gets me put under heavy scrutiny. I think at some point people just started ignoring me d1. The only game I feel I played well in the early stages was one game as an SK where I essentially won the game off the first two days. It was also probably the first game I cast an RVS vote... I had been getting a ton of pressure for simply not voting and talking about what I saw instead.

I consider RVS to be the beginning of the game to when the first wagon reaches it's climax. So it might be better to say just an 'early' wagon but most of the votes did feel random. As to why I didn't analyze the wagon, I felt it would go to L-1.

VeeGee is the lowest of low hanging fruit, and having just played with him, short awkward posts are going to be the norm.

That doesn't make the current state of affairs acceptable. As IaI just posted, lurking for scum is not a bad tactic. (Unsurprisingly, it's a terrible tactic for town because the lack of reads on a slot hurt the general affairs).

[Aj The Epic]

That doesn't make the current state of affairs acceptable. As IaI just posted, lurking for scum is not a bad tactic. (Unsurprisingly, it's a terrible tactic for town because the lack of reads on a slot hurt the general affairs).

IT'S ELEVEN DAYS FROM DEADLINE

I'M A COMPULSIVE MOTHERFUCKER WHO AIN'T GOT NO CHILL WHEN IT COMES TO LYNCHING!

No but really, if we can get them to post content it's a non-issue to me. In that case, I want to look over (hound) Performer and Kyuubi closely.

To assume he's town just because he's "always scummy" and then "flips town" is just the gambler's fallacy. It's not substantive reasoning at all.

Tbh i found that statement more like a meta reasoning than gambler's fallacy.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=94&t=60664 - Partner comments pre game, he doesn't comment on it.

That's his only completed scum game by the looks of it.
I can buy that he didn't know about pre chat.

The player didn't exactly replace in (he's been there by the start) i think? even if FA_Q didn't comment on it he should've seen his partner's posts i think.
Maybe im pressing the issue too hard, but i just find it really, hard, to believe that he didn't know scum has pre-game chat when he's been in so many games.
But if you guys think im wrong, then maybe im wrong.

I think the entire thing is worthless. But Veridith replaced in about a day in.

I've missed a lot of posts since I went to move a roundpen while sitting on this post. I'll post again if there's something to say.

[Aj The Epic]

Oh, to the meta reasoning/gambling fallacy:

I would read it more as a refusal to make a decision. This is just me being cynical but I have people I read wrong a good deal. Still not going to give up on trying to read them.

[Aj The Epic]

So, wait, did the argument over lynching me just stop randomly?

You post good content, then there's no issue. However we're at the weekend, I'm pretty sure it's time for you to hold up your end of the bargain.

Also the fact that Vedith has gone out of his way to discredit my point on FAQ is troublesome, while talah goes thinking that my point is valid but not strong enough, Vedith goes like "No evidence = Not true" despite me linking the scum game "Oh he didnt talk in pre-game on the scum chat, ergo, not evidence".

This isn't a bad lead. However, I do have an issue with the statement where Fa_q2 is either 100% scum/town on this statement. And the other issue I have is it seems like an

Hello Vedith btw.

I'm guessing you're town on what could be completely incorrect game meta which is that the person you replaced did not pick up their role PM.

Ergo no full scumteam to chat pre-game, ergo unfair on the scumteam.

How do you feel about that?

?
this dies not make any sense.

Where did you even get this idea. How do you know that the scum team was able to chat pre-game? I thought that was something that is explicit in the rules or does not happen? Can anyone else speak to this site and the general rules as to scum being able to speak pre-game?

Okay so let's be honest: If he faked this read, he's scum as shit. But here's the thing, the first two sentences can easily be accusations to force a read. Ask yourself this: when we talk about reading thoroughly, who do we expect to be more thorough? Definitely town. So him not reading the rules is actually a mark against him. His own inexperience as scum could work against him where he thinks that this game would be a rare case.

[Aj The Epic]

Unfinished sentence should end like: seems like an attack.

[Aj The Epic]

We won't lynch you if you read up, give content and act like town. Good enough?

[Aj The Epic]

Yes, you and Zakk are both terribly far behind on content.

[Aj The Epic]

Any progress, VeeGee?

Also Zakk, you need to step up to the plate or, saying this nicely, replace out. Inactivity cannot be a policy.

[Aj The Epic]

Alright, I challenge anyone to meta read some of Veegee's stuff and tell me he's not bonafide VI. What we've seen here is his content level and frankly it's unacceptable. He's a high priority d1 lynch in most games and frankly it's because of these reasons:

Posts are too short
No good analysis, never asks good questions
Votes are often misplaced, has no ability to work with others.
And really, there's nothing more to be expected of him then what we've already seen.

That needs to change. Veegee, if you're tired of dying D1 all the time, you have to engage yourself actively, you have to ask questions and here specifically you have to give us reads/reasons. Otherwise, I agree with the action taken by the town in most situations: You can't let him continue in games or you suffer having a random in the game down the line. So it's the same thing: Post content (solid content) or look forward to dying again D1.

[Aj The Epic]

I'd rather vig VIs tbh. Right now, I'm waiting for a few players to come post again, who I have an inkling might be scum and I felt this should be pointed out. Some of them are currently competing with our mod for lowest post count so it's a bit difficult to dig up anything yet.

While we're on the topic of people with low content, what you up to Zakk? Got any reads/info you wish to share?

@Veegee, I highly doubt you got called scum because you did what I suggested. But certainly trying to improve on your current style would be a huge help in the future (and now).

[Aj The Epic]

@mod, Kyub the kid has been gone for >2days. Can you prod him?

[Aj The Epic]

418 and 421

Completely agree. 421 is more a throwaway garbage post to me, but 418 is definitely bad.

1) I can't tell if you're being serious or trolling or what.
2) It seems like your attention is like bits and pieces everywhere.

Luna
I'm not trolling, St Constantine does that but not me...please don't worry about that...
if's any consolation
just think of me as the awkward guy at work
I'm just asking Vee some questions...like if I was Vig and shot him
what would he think
I don't do heavy personal insults. Please don't be concerned...

It's interesting that talah thought I'm trying to call attention to myself
but you verbalize that my attention is in bits and pieces
but really, I am afraid to die...
it's the same concern that I imagine
everyone else has

Nice softclaim vig. Unnecessary, completely so. More importantly, it feels like your putting it there just out there enough that no one can legitimately counterclaim but you still get the town cred for it.

Spoiler: Performer's Post 418

Because of Vee's 298 admission and his hilarious signature to further defend himself, I designed

one

set of questions for him.

It starts with one
One thing, I don't know why
It doesn’t even matter how hard you try
Keep that in mind, I designed this rhyme
To explain in due time
All I know
Time is a valuable thing
Watch it fly by as the pendulum swings
Watch it count down to the end of the day
The clock ticks life away
(linkin park – in the end)

Consider my questions a response to your 387 and 407...

Vee, what do you think about that song? Especially about the part, "it doesn't even matter how hard you try?"

Briefly tell me about your school. Do you like the school you go to?
What is the last thing you ate for lunch at your school?
If you weren't in school...what would you be doing? And tell me, why?
What is the weather like in your city at the moment?
If I were to ask your friends, would they say you're an honest person?
Have you ever lied to someone? If so, what was it about what?
How do you feel about lying in general?
Has your lurker activity been brought up past games, like it was brought up by catboi in this game? Low-hanging fruit, he mentioned. I'd imagine ripe fruit at that level can be picked, washed, bitten into, and would taste delicious. But I'd prefer a professional do the follow-up process because I wouldn't want to encounter nasty bugs that will kill me after eating a poorly-washed low-hanging fruit.

Back to FM.
If your lurker activity has been brought up before, what do people normally say about that?
Are they usually right or wrong? Why?
Would you say you're a better mafia or town player? Why?

And...if I were to shoot you on night 1
what do you think about that?

-----


302 : talah, it's because I was afraid they were messing with me like mafia would. I was future projecting that they were going to kill me first...that's what mafia does, they kill people...so I was afraid...
Two people who misquoted within a moment of each other, I wanted to see what they were up to...but like I said earlier, maybe I'm just paranoid...so they are off my radar at the moment...

There's a 2nd player I recognize...with his entrance, I'm afraid he'll vote me for my play style...which I don't want him to...
I don't want to die today...2nd player, what do you have to say for yourself...be honest, you can't escape the truth at night...

talah I'm curious...do you know who I speak of...
these 2 mystery players...


Aj's 313 has a point. I've heard about and personally witnessed lurkers who ruin the game for town. This ties back to the above questions toward Vee. I think it will be important for me and others, to determine if Vee is town or scum, the sooner the better. Then we don't have to wait until he gets on at night (limited time for him) or wait another 6 days for another time he can post, if he can't post on weeknights.


335 - catboi .... I don't mean to be obnoxious...I don't think I would ever use that as a playstyle...one person who comes to mind as obnoxious is RadiantCowBells


338 - Zak, what do you say to Ved's question...
Are you normally a brief poster?..why or why not?...
I'm curious about this as well..
therefore I am keeping an eye on Zak on top of Vee...

In this post, Performer's entire top half are useless questions (including the mafia related ones). They're all subjective and have very little to actually get Veegee engaged with this game. More importantly, a quick background check of Veegee answers the majority of questions listed.

The questions to Zakk are again bad and the statement regarding catboi is legitimately worthless.

VOTE: Performer

[Aj The Epic]

I, for one, feel enlightened.

[Aj The Epic]

Given the fact that you're the first vote on him, probably nothing. If you have something you'd like to bring forward, the jury is listening.

[Aj The Epic]

Unvote
Vote: Performer

I think im probably never going to find out about FAQ2 anyway.
#SheepingTownreads

Not true. It's a post to reference later if we can find more oddities about his game. If it was really a scum slip, there's almost no chance that he doesn't slip again.

[Aj The Epic]

ITT: People breadcrumb possibly having power roles at first sign of suspicion.

[Aj The Epic]

Hey scum. Performer's softclaiming Vig.

That's all I got to say. If you're going to claim at a wrong time, make sure everyone in the game knows that person claimed.

Also to town if we have a vig, don't counterclaim. Never counterclaim unless it directly affects a lynch and especially not on a deniable piece of bullshit like the above softclaim.

[Aj The Epic]

No better way to derail a wagon than have the second scum read vote the first...

[Aj The Epic]

Have any opinion on Performer's posts, catboi?

If negative, which (FA_q/Performer) do you regard as higher % scum?

[Aj The Epic]

I mean, look at the meaning behind his words.

He's suggesting he's put anything out there in the first place.

[Aj The Epic]

It's also beautiful how two of the lower content posters feel they have any rights to judge the going-ons of this game when they refuse to be apart of it via reads, content, questions or ANYTHING AT ALL that doesn't involve their own well-being.

[Aj The Epic]

Your last reads list was two days and 200 posts ago.

Since then, your only real opinions existed on FA_Q2's possible slip and when banana called you out.

So I want at least one absolute statement from you:

Was there a legitimate slip from FA_Q2? Do you think he tried to fake the slip? What is your resulting view of him?

[Aj The Epic]

Mark my words: Content will be the buzzword of this game.

Which is unfortunate because it only occurs when you have a bunch of people not pulling their weight in that department.

[Aj The Epic]

By the way, why the hell at this point in the game do I have votes on me? It's just sad.

[Aj The Epic]

Saying the same thing over and over just because I hurt your feelings by saying you look scummy all the time is anti town.
Now, you can keep throwing your toys out of the pram but all comments from you will be ignored until I feel that you are ready for the adults table.

This post is unacceptable. You know as well as anyone else that no one else can use on-going games so it's largely irrelevant to discussions. And because Banana keeps giving you shit over this, you're refusing to answer his/her questions? More importantly, you've just had this constant train of ad hominem. I don't know in what world you imagine this to be helping but we're functioning on a completely body of work-based record when choosing who's more important to the game-state. I don't think it takes much to gather who's more important using that metric.

I think it was a legit slip. Even if it's on the role PM, I missed this before hand in a game so I'm just going by experience.
I don't read him for town, and the slip doesn't clear him from either.
I think it was a legit slip. Even if it's on the role PM, I missed this before hand in a game so I'm just going by experience.I don't read him for town, and the slip doesn't clear him from either.

So you're saying he could make this slip as scum? Now, I did read the scum role pm (links to google goddamnit) and it is exactly as I would expect a scum pm: The qt link is like RIGHT THERE. I don't know of many people who would get their role PM and be like "ooh shiny link to QT I'm not going to click this until N1". Your logic here is bad to me in the sense that if he LEGITIMATELY SLIPPED, he's town. There's no way in hell he grabs that role pm and doesn't click the QT in my mind.

Now I question whether or not he did slip because his sentences seem to hold accusations. However, there was a right combination of answers to this question and I feel you've messed them up.

[Aj The Epic]

I felt like he was trying to clear Fa_Q2 without obviously buddying. Scum flip verdith is definite scum flip fa_q2. The only issue is we don't know what town flip verdith means.

[Aj The Epic]

The only issue is we don't know what town flip verdith means.

It means that Faq2 is still in the "we don't know"
Or in my case, still a slight townread.

Which is essentially nothing for us. I'd rather have a lynch where we rig it so we get something either way if we can.

[Aj The Epic]

Being an SK? I'm not too sure about that, as SK you want to draw little to no attention about yourself.

Well that's true, and at least in theory the advantage you have as SK is that you can genuinely scumhunt because you don't know the scum team.

Depends on what modifiers you have as an SK. I won a game as SK with a 1-shot BP modifier by fake counter-claiming cop against someone I thought was scum, taking the shot, claiming that my cop claim was bullshit and that I was just a BP townie.

Then again, I also didn't make NK's.

SK, vig it doesn't really matter as long as we direct the shots. This is simply because scum will have to take care of them and the SK's only chance to win is to obey town and hope that town backs itself into a situation where they can no longer take out both scum and SK. It's extremely rare but the SK gains nothing by working against the town once exposed.

We need confirmation that performer has a killing role, though.

[Aj The Epic]

I'm generally a fan to not waiting until the deadline because then people just don't show up. I'd like to set a town goal for about Thursday to get this over with but there's conditions. We need Zakk to post, something to happen to Kyub's slot and to figure out perfomer's softclaim. He needs to at least claim a killing power or not.

I'm willing to lynch any lurker on PL, but would think that today should be focused on a final lynch of Performer, Fa_q2 or Verdith.

[Aj The Epic]

Then we lynch him. It really isn't a choice for him at this point. And if he's claiming VT, I might invoke a LAL on him.

[Aj The Epic]

VeeGee, based on past experience, is awkward as hell and a VI. My approach to him, which I think I've said, is to wait and see. I don't expect him to start strong, only way to read him will be to wait and see and as it is the wagon on him looked exceptionally lazy.

Just remember even VIs can draw scum roles.

Where are you with Performer/Faq/Verdith? I know you talked about the verdith interaction a bit but it doesn't seem like you're willing to make any accusations outside of the one with wicked.

[Aj The Epic]

You asked me a rhetorical question and what I thought RVS was. I answered the latter.

[Aj The Epic]

Yeah the vig part is only one part of my vote. More importantly, I want to out that soft-claim because it forces scum to choose if they believe it and then if they do (or it turns out to be true) it can leave them predictable. Also, I believe Verdith on the very next page tried breadcrumbing under the slightest amount of suspicion. There was no hint to what, just a suggestion that he might have a PR. My point is that it seemed we had people softclaiming on the barest amount of pressure. I also wouldn't mind scum cleaning one for us anyways :/

So essentially you're interested in a wicked lynch or a fa_q2 lynch at this point.

[Aj The Epic]

You don't get the point: Regardless of role they claim, I still wouldn't mind a NK wasted on them. While roles are useful, the game's won via what's written here.

I agree with wanting to see more people talk. I feel like I could use one more conf-town read and a better read on choof/banana before ending the day.

I currently have you and Luna as conf-town for all intents/purposes right now. I want to add Tallah to that list. I've been town reading him for a while but I think his progression on 515 warrants confirming that.

Interesting note to me is that both Verdith and Fa_Q2 show interest in the performer wagon. Fa_q2's vote and Verdith's 521. There may be a connection between these two worth being explored further.

[Aj The Epic]

>.> Yeah where do you claim to be from Luna?

[Aj The Epic]

Mafia site

[Aj The Epic]

Never was a fan of Salem. Then again, I come from a site where we post(ed... we're all gone, I think ) walls and if you didn't, there was something wrong with you (weren't reading enough into the game).

[Aj The Epic]

What about the first question, I'd still like an answer to that. Also, what is your read on Choof?

I guess I could answer the first one with a rhetorical question: How much do you expect people to be engaged by post 94? On that page before your vote, I had been actively trying to discussion with people. To that point, I spent a post explaining how I thought it was best to handle double scum team games and explaining why I didn't feel like moving my vote in RVS. But to imply I wasn't discussing at that point is not correct. Excluding a double post made for 60/61, I had about four posts in the span of 30 posts that were somewhat useful. The catboi vote happened around my 72, so from his vote to yours was only 22, in which I had 3 posts discussing why I wasn't interested in the RVS wagon.

My read on choof has gone cold. During his argument with Banana, I felt it was him being town and that banana was overreacting a tad. However, when the thread got too much shit from that, I let my read fall away a bit because it wasn't beneficial to the town for the posts to be that intrusive on the game.

Of the two I actually had choof as more town because they both ended up voting Luna. Choof was first, which meant that if Banana was suspicious of Choof, she should've been more guarded about it. 134 shows their position on Luna, which Choof scumreading and Banana having Luna for null. I still don't understand what exactly drove Banana to vote for Luna (it wasn't really explained in 197.

Since then, Choof's been more commentary than content and Banana got tied up in another rather pointless discussion over meta with verdith. I'm sitting choof specifically in null due to lack of read and Banana as someone I want to revisit more deeply in later days.

[Aj The Epic]

Cool, so it's become very apparent that pretty much everything I post is being written off as useless and pointless. Choof and Vedith, you both succeeded in making sure nobody takes me seriously this game.

I'm a vote for whoever wants it but don't expect me to contribute much else from here on out.

I stated at the end of your argument with choof that it wasn't worth it. I also stated that Verdith using meta that none of us should/could be using was stupid. It was a pointless argument from that standpoint to me, and stated that Verdith was the one at fault.

[Aj The Epic]

Holy shit, really? There's one vote down and you're stressing about that?

[Aj The Epic]

Come on, how does Veegee's comment not make you want to cry?

[Aj The Epic]

Come on, how does Veegee's comment not make you want to cry?

It doesn't, it looked like an innocent polite statement.
Here he acknowledges that 1 vote's probably nothing:

Highly unlikely, but you never know.

I think you're overthinking it.

I don't think it's scum, I just think it's completely ridiculous. With eight people needed to lynch, remove the confirmed town and semi-lurkers and it's almost impossible to pull off a lynch at this point.

[Aj The Epic]

Luna (and catboi if you have opinions on choof/banana), can you just list your town reads? We could probably PoE right now, I think (unless choof/banana don't have strong reads by you).

Because if we're looking specifically performer/faq_2/wicked (and verdith, but you're town reading him?) and you have an opinion on banana/choof, then it's time to start pressing some of these reads and maybe even finalize a lynch after deli throws his thoughts in. The posting is slowing down too much for my liking, so I'd like to get everyone on the same page, get a few cases/comparisons and go to N1 to get some flips.

[Aj The Epic]

You've got everyone. Are your reads on choof/Banana still from their argument? If not, what since then reinforced it?

I also think that CDB is going to have to be examined carefully. There were a few posts from Kyuub I was gonna eventually go back to. More importantly, having played with CDB on my scum team, I know a little bit about his style.

[Aj The Epic]

@AJ - Who's Wicked?, and your post links are leading back to an ancient MS game.

Also I'm bored and going to bed cuz you assholes have the wrong timezone @molla's capslock game

TheWorst... I don't know why I've been saying Wicked other than they seem similar.

And what did you expect on the link side? I told you I've been gone a minute.

I still think luna is scum
did I ever have a push on banana? I wouldn't say that it was continued, but I can understand how you might think it's opportunistic.

I honestly can't tell if you're just a fucking moron or not.

Can we just all pretend to be friends for the next few weeks? Also, in the meantime can you give me a quick overview of your reads?

[Aj The Epic]

Yeah I'm generally not a fan when my second scum read (faq) and my third (verdith) vote on to my first...

Especially before it's a for-sure thing. I might even wrap back around to go after fa_q2 but I feel we at least should get a claim from performer. I'm fairly confident that the majority of the scum is in between faq2/verdith/performer and maybe kyuub (depending on first few posts).

[Aj The Epic]

for IaI and banana:

Okay, so what do you think of the people on the wagon then? Bad aim overall, scum helping it?

I stick by what I said about wanting a claim and also thinking Faq/verdith are taking advantage of this.

Specific to IaI, who are you looking to tie up then?

[Aj The Epic]

reserving my spot on this wagon bar CDB posting anything gamechanging.

[Aj The Epic]

Not happy about this current situation of events.

Replacements, keep us updated. We're lynching and getting out of this day, it's gone on for too long. Choof's replacement needs to give us a list of people (at least 3) that he's going to choose from to send that message tonight so we can verify it as acceptable options.

[Aj The Epic]

Role claim please. Right now.

[Aj The Epic]

Needless to say this has been a failure.

[Aj The Epic]

You won't be killed. No one would want to kill your slot.

[Aj The Epic]

There's like a 1% chance that IaI is strawmanning Performer.
So I'm voting the scum that just confirmed himself.

UNVOTE: Performer
VOTE: I am Innocent

Pre-edit:
The weak modifier is normal. The role has to be valid to apply it. Hider is not a normal role.
Same as "X-shot". You can apply x-shot to any valid role, because the modifier is normal.

PGO not being normal doesn't change my aspect because ummm I never took it as a legitimate claim so ummm never looked it up. I'm unsurprised that he fucked up 2 fake-claim crumbs out of 3.

Can you explain the "1% strawman" and how that makes IaI scum?

[Aj The Epic]

So this is a beautiful depiction of garbage in it's final form.

CDB and Titus…good to see you two again!...
-----

I’m 100% positive there is at least 1 scum on my wagon between Luna, talah, Aj, or Ved...they pushed more to vote me and/or they kept their vote on me for quite some time...

100% certain you have 1 scum in four people. THREE OF THEM are basically confirmed town. And your overall reason? "Oh they're voting for me QQ. They should've stopped but they're scum"

No, we shouldn't stop. YOU should give us a reason to stop and you didn't. Town doesn't derail their own wagons, and if you're suggesting there's somewhere else we should've had our votes, you're doing an awful job explaining it. This reason is complete asinine bullshit.

talah and Luna share a continued desire to lynch me. talah's 659 reply to cat is all the more reason – continues stretching the truth of obviously hypothetical questions that I already iterated were for Vee. .. it’s scum that launches my questions into softclaim territory. Your 662 further confirms scummy behavior as you think I’m deceitful when you’re grabbing at straws

677 and 678 point to Ban and IaI being town as scum would rather rush us to mislynch someone than calmly look at the motives between everyone

771 Luna I’m not sure what you’re getting at

"It's scum that launches my questions into softclaim territory"
Then don't crumb claims? Your questions really were a pointless attempt to look connected to the game RIGHT AFTER I stated that Veegee needed to be more involved.

"....Further launches into scummy behavior as [he] thinks you're deceitful..."
No?
1.He didn't say you were deceitful, good straw-man. Really, fantastic lie. It doesn't even take any digging to find what he meant.

Also I don't really care what he softclaimed; it's not the reason I'm voting him, however I did think it was additional likely-to-be-bullshit content, and that was indeed the case apparently.

He said your content was bullshit.

I also think Aj's encouragement in 716, to choof to tell us who he planned to send the Friendly Neighbor message to, was not a good idea...if choof did that, scum would've gotten the information and could've gotten lucky in killing a recipient... Aj's suggestion...did you consider the death consequence of the recipient?...
On top of that, 679 shows Aj addressing my townreads Ban and IaI, while wanting a claim, and singling IaI like talah did...Aj's 461 pointed at FA, 505 pointed at FA & Ved, 533 pointed at me & FA & Ved,

Looks like you're foretelling of attack against me, FA, Ved - or some combo of that...

I've also not forgotten about my question posed to zak in 564, which he redirected in 618 like a slimy politician who is not used to eating escargot, then regurgitates it onto the plate of another customer.... His ISO still is very unsatisfactory...maybe a scum team of zak & Aj, zak parking the vote on Aj in d1 and coasting by, Aj the mastermind scum pulling strings with a 3rd scum member

FoS: zak, talah, Luna, Ved

VOTE: Aj

You know what, fuck this shit about 716. Any town player should see that we can't allow choof to just send it to anyone he feels like. Then it's sent to scum if he's scum or the town player ends up dying. And nice misrepping me when I stated he needed a list of three. That way we know town in there first and that he can't pull off the old bullshit "oops my target died" or send it to a scum buddy multiple nights in a row.

The part about "addressing my town reads"? Who cares? 200 posts ago you mention IaI "Looks town" and you never mention a damn thing about Banana in your iso. It's a trivial choice that stems from "They aren't voting for me, get them on my side".

I stick by what I said. You should claim. In fact, it makes life a lot easier because even if you are a hider, I can make this work out that town gets a confirmation on choof and we know FOR SURE if we've got scum by simply checking Verdith or Fa_q2. In the case that you are a hider (which I call bullshit on), then scum knocking a kill that way even for a 2for1 makes it almost impossible to win because they've wasted a kill on a scumread for the town.

I also haven't hidden my belief that the majority of the scum probably exists between you, verdith and fa_q2. Big surprise there.

So you've come to the conclusion that:
One of Luna/Me/Tallah/Verdith is "definitely scum". Three of them basic confirmed townies.
I have scumreads on you, verdith, Fa_q2.
You think IaI, banana are town (kinda random pickup outside they don't vote you) and questioning them is somehow bad.
And I'm a scum mastermind pulling the strings, advocating a PL on zakk earlier who I'm letting 'slip by'.

Lol if I was a fucking mastermind I'd just lurk like you because none of the people here actively post outside of Luna and Tallah, who's in a different timezone from the majority of posts. So if the scum is there, this game is already fucked because you guys have no ability to produce your own activity. In fact, as soon as one or two of us dies, it's GG because who the hell will post? Go check Micro 524, the before and after I was there as a replacement. Game died pretty damn hard and scum just lurked. Easiest way to win a game here because people don't advocate PL and don't post.

Really, if your list of scum is truly scum, the game's lost. Town would've lost it because they didn't engage at all. And you, if you were town, would be guilty as anyone for it! You have such low output of content and almost no engagement that you developed to sheeping reads until this post. To be completely honest, everyone here who has decided to sit on the sideline and wait quietly isn't performing their civic duty to the game. Sure, in larger games where there's hundreds of pages on content and many pages every day, a quieter BUT NOT LURKING style works. However this place is getting maybe a page a day and it's mostly from the same four people, one of them who replaced out! Luckily, IaI is stepping up to fill that void but Luna, myself, Tallah, and catboi (rip) have been the majority of the content since page 2 or 3!

Now Verdith (whose alignment I question) and IaI (who I believe is town but has fucked towns majorly in the past as scum) are the ones filling in. Banana's on and off with levels of post, and I'm not going into how helpful they are. What's that mean? Well, Performer, Fa_q2, Zakk, TheWorst, Veegee (-.- who admittedly is probably never giving more) and the replacements NEED to contribute. And CBD is already inactive in thread for 2 days!

And do you really think I wouldn't just lurk? I'm sorry, my morals suck. I play to win and in the case of me being scum in a town that refuses to be active, good fucking luck. I won't help you at all.


Now, I'm super tired of this guy. I want him to L-1 and get a claim from him. He hides for hundreds of posts at a time, comes back and calls the consistent town block in this game scum and thinks that he can ride that to disable his wagon? I'm sorry, I'm not letting this level of shitpost survive without reason.

As for choof's replacement

, I believe pool is completely necessary by the above reasons. I think that it should be sent to someone between IaI, catboi's replacement, and Veegee. These players are less likely to be killed anyways and scum doesn't want to divert a kill from Luna/Tallah/myself. It's the safest bet to put it somewhere in there and pray to the good lord that those three are town. This way, scum either goes on a 33% chance of grabbing the note or goes after confirmed town. And if one of those three don't die, we BETTER hear about how town choof's slot is.

[Aj The Epic]

How about starting with that vote. Does that seem like something that would benefit scum Performer to do, try to start a wagon on a consensus non-lynchable player this close to the deadline while he is the top wagon by far?

How ABOUT we start with that vote? Sure, sure "controversial isn't scum" belief. But wait, how about reasoning behind it? How about his body of work as a whole in light of what he's posted? How about the fact that his read list is just "everyone on me is probscum"? Frankly, I see that entire post as trying to back someone off of him with suspicion alone. He doesn't know me very well because I don't back down from anything, but still. How do we ignore the weight of the bad reads there and lack of anything PRODUCTIVE other than the fact that he's taken 200 posts to react to the thread and only react to what's directly involving him.

Surprise, my other two scum reads are guilty of exactly the same thing.

[Aj The Epic]

Any opinion on what you've seen? We're largely waiting for you and two other replacements to really catch up.

[Aj The Epic]

Yeah not catching up is kinda bad here.238 and subsequent posts need to be seen to form an opinion on our resident lurker, Fa_q2. Who very well might be a lynch target today.

That link actually works btw. Figured out how to use /post earlier.

[Aj The Epic]

Nice of you to show up. Mind helping us with any REAL insight over the occurrence of the last 200 posts?

[Aj The Epic]

hmm catboi was also soft defending performer, Aj/talah: opinions on this?

Actually makes me want to lynch him more. Mostly because this is catboi's replacement, right? It'd be a good way to check allignments if we've got two people from the same slot soft-defending performer.

More importantly, Catboi wanted a TheWorst lynch incredibly bad. His scum reads outside of that were almost a bit limited.

[Aj The Epic]

Here's the thing: Titus admits not to having read ANY of the thread and has this hard town read on Performer no matter what we show him/her.

Titus, point out the misquote then.

More importantly, if it was a misquote, why would performer never point it out? He really went hard on Banana over an accidental misquote (where the tags messed up) and Luna in like RVS. There's no reason he'd suddenly stop.

[Aj The Epic]

Well I guess catboi's slot was scum...

I asked you to find it to point them out because you said they existed. Now you refuse. You're basically saying "yeah I know he was misquoted but my ambiguous language affords that you'll never know what was misquoted". You have this hard and fast opinion about performer that you formed off of two posts. You realize this, right? If you've read where you're directed and then from when you replaced in, you formed an unshakable town read on performer that came off of two posts that are absolutely wretched considering the entirety of the game. Afterwards, you were directed to other posts.

[Aj The Epic]

...what the hell?

[Aj The Epic]

Fmhpov

, you misquoted him

and so did someone else.

From my honest point of view is Fmhpov right?

@Catboi, No. I said he believed they existed, not that I agreed.

So you did NOT say he believed they existed. You said HE WAS misquoted.

[Aj The Epic]

The acronym for FMPOV is From My Point of View.

Are you going to telling me that I should've somehow insinuated that adding an "h" is making it completely different?

P-edit: Skybird is referring to the quote Luna has ON THIS PAGE. There's literally nothing malicious/bad/warranting a vote on what she did there.

[Aj The Epic]

Titus, it flipped pages. Jesus christ talk about nitpicking shit.

[Aj The Epic]

So we've replaced legitimate player catboi with gotcha Titus. Okay, I get how we play this game.

So you're up to at least 2 fuck ups on thinking Skybird wasn't referencing Luna's quote on page 34 and for making the mistake of thinking FMHPOV was something that could be taken any other way other than how it was taken.

[Aj The Epic]

No, we're not following you tomorrow Titus. You die today.

Vote: Titus.

[Aj The Epic]

There is no other correct interpretation to what Luna said.

Didn't Tallah already call this aggression Titus' scum meta? I'm also seeing the enormous amount of garbage she's posting as scum. Let's just knock out scum here.

[Aj The Epic]

@Tallah: A scum flip Titus confirms Performer as scum. It's not compromising by any stretch of the imagination.

[Aj The Epic]

@AJ, would my townflip confirm you as scum and Performer as town?

You'd obviously say no.

On the rare event you're town, stop misrepping everything cuz butthurt.

Second, you never consider me white knighting performer. You're agenda hunting not scumhunting.

At least through your crap, I am cracking the game.

Yes, cracking the roughly 6 pages of game you've read.

I have considered you could be WK'ing Performer which is why I'm attacking the source. However, I also believe that when you flip scum, we have a day to check the most likely lead. I've been scumhunting this entire game. I have four scum reads now, three at the beginning of the day. I'm not putting the puzzle together to find who's with who to minimize losses and find the highest chance scum.

Nice use of the misrep buzzword. That's all you're able to cry this entire time here. "Stop misrepping! Misquoting Performer! Misheard me when I said FMHPOV!" What a bunch of nonsense. You've proved nothing here and are no closer to cracking the game then when you began.

Then again, since scum already know alignments, I guess you can't get much farther to begin with.

[Aj The Epic]

I'm not putting the puzzle together to find who's with who to minimize losses and find the highest chance scum.

not

= now

[Aj The Epic]

Lol. I can't even say anything about it because yes it is ongoing. All I'm going to say is I see differences. And they're not even close to being hard to see.

[Aj The Epic]

Any response to 855, or are you admitting you're engaging in agenda driven posting?

Your 855 is trash. Don't pretend there's anything reasonable to respond to, especially when I'm voting you.

[Aj The Epic]

Can you look at my agenda driven posting argument?

Maybe if you explained it other than throwing around buzzwords, you might have something. However, my scum reads have strong reasons if you'd do the damn leg work to read the thread.

[Aj The Epic]

Your read on Performer off of another (ONGOING) game is garbage. It's so bad and I can't say why but it's just not good. You aren't town by ANY stretch of the imagination, Performer hasn't been seen as town either. You claim I'm simply trying to lynch town but you have no supporting case other than throwing words around for it.

By agendas, I could claim you want to put enough pressure on me to remove my word in the town, which has been helping to keep the activity up today. You're attempting to save your buddy by all means and think that somehow working enough discrediting into me will manage that. It works both ways. The only difference is mine actually has motives that can be seen, you calling me agenda hunting off of people you seem to know as town will do nothing.

P-edit: Yes I assume her meta's accurate. I still do because TITUS IS PLAYING IT TO A T. What more do you need to verify something Tallah has as meta when it's being played out right in front of you?

[Aj The Epic]

Luna don't start this "You're both town" nonsense. Titus has done nothing town here. If you can't even read the thread, how do you come out firing like that with any belief in certainty?

More importantly, she says I'm misreping or Performer's being misquoted or anything with along the lines of that nonsense and then says this?

Poor quote selection but he's saying you're misrepping his posts as worthless.:/

Yes so she goes through all this bullshit and then misrepresents what you said! Is there anything in this game so far that points to Titus being town? Catboi's play, maybe, but then we talk about the fact that catboi was in such control that he could've easily just played us.

[Aj The Epic]

Because you're fucking impossible! You come in here without reading anything and immediately go after the main wagon. The hunting for the majority of this was done, we were waiting for you people to catch up and then finalize it! There was NOTHING more to do today before you came in here and started ruining my expectation of that slot.

[Aj The Epic]

But at least you agree it's nonsense. Her scum read came based off the fact that she said FMHPOV and I interpreted it similarly to Tallah in that it was HER point of view. That's the most trivial scum read I've seen, especially coming from someone who has been preaching about misquotes and misrepresentation. More importantly, Performer would literally point out ANY misquote on him. We could attribute a quote about the sky being blue to him and he'd call it. There's almost no way that she has some misquote/rep that you/I or whoever she's calling it on since she can't use the quote function effectively to illustrate points that Performer wouldn't have already called.

Then she backs up her vote saying I'M the one saying untrue things. What? How does anyone put up with this to begin with?

And for this preordained deadline lynch, I wanted Performer's claim and even posted I'd most likely be joining IaI and choof on Verdith if the claim was something worth proving.

P-edit: I'm not attacking Titus on playstyle. Don't trivialize this please. I'm attacking Titus because she's literally lying by calling everyone else liars.

[Aj The Epic]

First one: I had scum reads on Luna and a town lean on Choof. We were at page 10 and Choof/Banana were having their huge argument.

Second, I had town reads on catboi, luna as confirmed, tallah as probable. I had scum reads on Performer, Fa_q2, Verdith. If I'm not mistaken, IaI wasn't relevant yet so I had no read on him. I wanted Luna's opinion on Choof/Banana because I wasn't sure what to think of them. I had them both as probable TvT largely making a mess of things but both reads had fallen off. And Veegee had started posting so he was someone who just came off as standard VI.

[Aj The Epic]

Because you had started to look for scum and I was simply going to play antagonist to any reads and make sure nothing got by I didn't like. Once it was fairly apparent it was a playstyle clash as opposed to super hard appeasement, I decided to try and work with it even it's just me going through and making sure you don't let scum into that town read.

[Aj The Epic]

Have I played that way towards you? I've made sure I agree with it and I'm making sure there's nothing in your read list I don't like.

[Aj The Epic]

You called banana town off an RVS vote.

[Aj The Epic]

So what is this supposed to mean:

even it's just me going through and making sure you don't let scum into that town read.

That as long as you agree with my townread's all fine and dandy and you don't care if there's scum in my townreads while we PoE?

So... what if scum that infiltrated my townreads... it's you? Feels like a nice position to take don't you think?

That's basically the paranoia that's been scratching on the back of my head since you asked me that.

If there's scum in your town reads and you live out to influence town, you lose. It's true for anyone. I'm hunting scum, that's all I'm concerned about and that's all I'm ever concerned about. I don't think I'm letting anyone through.

It's not me. If you want, I'll claim here since in all likelihood it's you or me that dies tonight. Don't be paranoid about it.

You called banana town off an RVS vote.

Yes and i explained it.

I realize that. I'm saying it was strange to me. I still wouldn't do it.

[Aj The Epic]

Why were you trying to play antagonist to all reads you disagree with? You haven'tvreally stopped as that's your issue with me.

Do I really need to answer this? My play style is antagonistic if you haven't noticed. I'm aggressive, pushy and occasionally ruthless. If I disagree with something, I'm going to say it. And I don't understand your last sentence. My issue with you is that you're lying about us misrepresenting.

[Aj The Epic]

Because I needed Banana and Choof out of the way and figured if Luna had a hard town read on both, it was probably very close to game. The only oddities would've been Worst, Kyuub and Zakk, who catboi had a town read on.

[Aj The Epic]

You're dealing in hypothetical situations. If you want to see my reasoning, go read the thread. It's there, I guarantee it.

[Aj The Epic]

I took up no position in my last post other than read the thread.

[Aj The Epic]

I have been completely convinced by your irrefutable case.

[Aj The Epic]

BBMola, I'm the first vote on titus

[Aj The Epic]

BBMola, I'm the first vote on titus

Bolded for standard...

[Aj The Epic]

Alright... First,

Vote:Performer

Titus' push for him being town is not right. I suggest people read his posts elsewhere, it's obvious there's a difference from there to here.

Titus herself is an oddity. I see no logical reason why she plays into the game as she did if she hadn't read anything prior. I can't even see what it benefits her as scum outside of buddying/WK'ing. Even if she wants to go after me for whatever reason, she as scum could just NK me. It could be scum trying to telegraph a NK at luna and try to force me to have no say tomorrow. But it's not effective because you'd probably lose a scum member doing it and it isn't coordinated since we know scum don't have day talk.

But as town unless she has some super reason to believe performer is town off of one post, it still doesn't make any sense. And while 785 (performer's "everyone voting for me is scum" post) is better than his usual posts and also closer to the engagement that I suspect is his town play, it still doesn't match it. Then the nonsense about calling misrep/quotes and all that baloney. I would put so much more into it if scum had daytalk, since that would probably confirm Titus as town, but they don't. There's no explanation for coming into a game and creating falsified nonsense against the players who are town.

[Aj The Epic]

I'm also tempted to say no to two teams. With the cut/dry flavor, the general second team is referred to as 'werewolves' and townies as 'villagers'. We're given a PM for one scum team, it seems like an unfair advantage that one scum team would know that two exist (since you can't simply call all of them 'mafia'. More importantly, my role would have some ambiguity in the language if there was a second team. There's nothing. It's very cut and dry about what I can and can't do and this wouldn't exist in a general werewolf/mafia game.

[Aj The Epic]

Performer this entire game has constantly responded to posts directed to him only. If we look at effort when he's involved and when he's not, it's pretty clear he wanted no part in actually playing a role today. His posts speak to him wanting to mostly lurk on by today and he's been forced out to post. And now his reads are largely 'scum vote for me'. Surprising, I think I called someone else on this this very game.

As for 'changing style game to game', I call bullshit on multiple levels. First, your 'style' is not just how your posting looks. Your style is your subconscious play and tendencies. Some tendencies do not change. In real life, when I lie I will look someone in the eye. That tendency does not change. Funnily enough, when I'm fed up with listening to someone I do the same thing. In the same sense, habits in mafia are not something you just trivially change. We can't talk specifics in differences to other games but there are numerous consistencies to your town style that simply don't show here.

[Aj The Epic]

"Performer this entire game has constantly responded to posts directed to him only"

Funny you say this, Aj
I've been looking at zak, FA, Vee, Ban
choof/Sky I have looked at their posts as well, though that slot is confirmed town as the white on my rice...

FA_q2 was voting for you. You only questioned Veegee after I made a point of his lack of involvement. And your questions have been pointed to as bad and not helpful in the slightest. They're so bad, they're among the first reasons this wagon ever started.

Banana YOU JUST LISTED as a town read. You reversed it, so what? Not like there was much to that read other than "Is not voting me" to begin with. As for Zakk, talk about picking any target you can try to tie to me. He's put no effort into defending himself and I've not given it too much of a second glance because it's just so out there as a theory.

With choof, you've only had him as scum/null which means you're going off of his claim and nothing more. Kind of flimsy given that the claim could very easily be false.

[Aj The Epic]

So BTW Performer IS at L-1 due to Skybird's vote.

We play this standard: If there is an intent, state it and ask for claim. Anyone with lol-hammer will be lynched tomorrow. Too much warning to allow any of that nonsense.

[Aj The Epic]

but tunnel vision is bad.

*insert mandatory eye-roll*

[Aj The Epic]

CBD, your unofficial vote count is at least a bit wrong, I'm voting performer right now.

I don't understand derailing the wagon before we could at least get a claim from it. Now we're just wasting a lot of build-up on this from someone a good deal (near majority) had as scum for a policy lynch. I want his lynch even more right now to know if scum was helping this derailing.

The only lynch I'd agree to with CDB is Fa_q2's. We've got too much information to just settle a policy lynch after an entire week worth of information. It would be better to hope a vig takes him over actually lynching him.

I'm obviously disappointed with CDB's read on me off of one post where I made it clear I was going to work with Luna over arguing with her. If that is your entire basis for a read out of 120+ posts plus is a comparison when I'm calling Luna scum to town and wanting to work with her, it's a sadly shallow read.

[Aj The Epic]

Let's get this out there: I wasn't going to participate in PoE. I wanted Luna to do it because I had no idea what to think of Choof/banana.

Do you want to just agree to Fa_q2 as a middle ground over Zakk? I'd much rather not take a PL and would jump immediately to get something better than a PL.

[Aj The Epic]

UNVOTE: zakk
VOTE: FAQ2

[Aj The Epic]

lol just c/p'd and forgot you had zakk there :/

[Aj The Epic]

The trivial "they don't vote for who I want lynched" nonsense continues.

[Aj The Epic]

@zakk, who are your townreads then?

@Aj, do you object to zakk's approach.

@zakk if I read your ISO, will I find any wired changes?

Give me what we gain other than a shot at the dark. I don't care for Zakk's approach to the game but there are

so many

better options. It's a waste in day1 to commit to a lynch so few actually will outright say is scum.

[Aj The Epic]

So L-1 needs intent btw.

Something tells me he doesn't answer though. 24 hour period.

[Aj The Epic]

Again, it's not guaranteed that scum don't have daytalk and I actually don't quite know how scum having daytalk would make Titus town.

Alright, remember Titus took almost 2 days before doing anything in the thread. If she's scum with daytalk, her partner(s) catches her up, explains catboi was pretty town and she just coasts. No reason to come out and attack like that and risk reputation day 1.

[Aj The Epic]

It's guaranteed that the scum don't have daytalk, for the record.

Tallah was arguing encryptor, which could allow day talk even if it was not allowed otherwise.

I kinda doubt that they have it since I'm so used to the night-talk only mafia groups. I'm suspecting a role blocker, which is why I didn't ask choof's replacement to outright specify who he'd send the message to.

P-edit: Veegee said he was going to. I'm not doing it, sorry.

[Aj The Epic]

Two days until hammer AJ. You're not mislynching FA_Q2.

I'm actually bussing a buddy over here so you don't lynch him later. Goml please.

If you're just going to assume everyone I vote for is a mislynch, you're not going to get far because scum is probably within vedith/Faq2/Performer.

@Performer, I played a game with 2 fractions a few years ago that had 14 or less (maybe 12?). Two two man scum teams, town ended up winning day 4 or something. It isn't unfathomable, just unlikely.

[Aj The Epic]

He's obviously flipping town. There's literally zero doubt at this point.

We should be lynching FA_Q2, but apparently town seems to think sheeping Titus is going to work here.

[Aj The Epic]

They aren't going to listen at this point anyways. Catboi even read zakk as town.

I might be the very slightest bit irked by the wagon Titus has produced on Zakk on a somewhat lacking content due to a slight suspicion on me.
How's that for avoiding hyperbole?


P-Edit: a no-lynch is clearly the worst option. however let me point out his attitude is the exact same that Performer took and similar to Veegee's.

Vedith: This isn't even looking at recent pages, this is the entire game to take into account. The earlier posts he has aren't scum. My suspicions also come from the fact that this is a counterwagon to a wagon led almost exclusively by town reads. The second wagon is generally scum-driven. This is not a good lynch.

MORE IMPORTANTLY: Why does a scum zakk about to die claim VT? He should claim cop or doctor and at least OUT someone. This is a town's death.

[Aj The Epic]

Here's the difference: You all are hell bent on killing him and through the entire wagon he's received no support. He should basically die here just by the way the town is treating it. In that case, the best possible outcome for scum is to claim a power role. If you aren't counter claimed, you're given a free ride. If you are, you kill said person. It isn't even a WIFOM sort of deal here, he's simply a VT, his claim makes no sense as scum.

[Aj The Epic]

Yeah, catboi's strongest scum read. Man I'm already missing him.

[Aj The Epic]

Yeah I just spotted the scum.

Performer's using an old tactic I used to use as scum. Super justification of a lynch I'm already on. Better make sure everyone knows my conviction even after I've been voting and no one in their right mind would expect me to go elsewhere anyways! More importantly, it's more a history lesson with performer than any justification. He reeks of scum and we could've lynched him had we not shot ourselves in the foot by sheeping someone who had read all of like 8 pages.

[Aj The Epic]

We're lynching performer or fa_q2 tomorrow. And sheeping someone who has read just over 1/5th of the game thread generally results badly. Also, TheWorst is probably scum at this point.

Tallah, don't act as if Titus' actions weren't the driving reason the performer wagon died.

[Aj The Epic]

One of them could be town, yes. But I'm pretty certain the town out of them isn't Performer. I think Fa_q2 has the highest chance of town out of the three, but he's only recently started to change my opinion on that at all.

[Aj The Epic]

This wagon's entirety still pisses me off on a level I can't accurately express.

[Aj The Epic]

As stated previously, we've come to have too much information to just settle for a policy lynch. And honestly, outside of Titus (who hasn't read the entire thread) and CBD, I don't see much support for Performer being town. To me, that means he's got no buddies who wanted to step out and support him. The counter wagon coming from Titus was jumped on too hard, and someone's going to set Titus to fall for it when it's just scum sitting on the wagon sheeping real easy. Performer's as good as caught.

[Aj The Epic]

I think catboi was town. I think that Performer got a free slip because of a counter-wagon and you gave scum a way out. I'm betting 2 scum on the zakk wagon (performer+skybird?/Banana).

Banana needs to be looked at again. she bounced bad on the end of this day. Today banana has voted: Titus, zakk, Performer, Veegee, Vedith, Luna, theWorst and choof. 8 of 14 players, and considering 1 of those 14 is herself.

[Aj The Epic]

Also I advocated a Policy Lynch on one of Zakk/veegee back in 272.

[Aj The Epic]

Uhm I just saved your ass I think I deserve thanks.

If I'm not mistaken, I also received note that TheWorst is town.

VOTE: Performer

[Aj The Epic]

There is the possibility that I got hit as well. However considering yesterday's events, I'm betting it was you that got shot at.

Sky, who'd you send to? Everyone's alive, no one can duck out.

[Aj The Epic]

yes. I'm not some nutty cop/doc/bp god.

[Aj The Epic]

No, because I also got his role. Skybird also might need to be lynched btw.

[Aj The Epic]

Okay to be less cryptic, Worst is a friendly neighbor. This is almost exactly what choof/skybird have claimed. There's almost no way I expect there to be TWO in this game.

[Aj The Epic]

Because I was thinking about keeping that to myself (about neighbor) and seeing if there's a chance he'd just out his scum buddy. However, I felt I gave too much away if there was something wrong and a truthful role claim ought to be enough.

As for Performer, bar incriminating evidence on someone else, he's my lynch. I don't think I need to explain why I think he's scum.

[Aj The Epic]

very productive question. Could only be topped if I knew what the hell you were asking about.

[Aj The Epic]

@Faq2: I can spell it out for you: I'm a 2 shot bullet proof doctor.

@Luna because I'm not sure what exactly it means right now. Friendly neighbors aren't anything more than innocent children who need night phases to work.

[Aj The Epic]

That's part of why I'm currently giving Skybird the benefit of the doubt. Better claims exist and choof technically didn't have to claim.

[Aj The Epic]

Why claim now? this does not make sense to me.

Two reasons: Titus isn't driving this town a second longer and I'm just clearing luna for good.

Tbh it scum doesn't have a strongman, they aren't going to come after me. Wasting two more kills before they can get me is suicide to them so it's about as safe a time to claim as ever.

Luna, you've become quite the critic. See if you get someone to counterclaim doctor then if you want to base my trustworthiness on that.

[Aj The Epic]

Titus, start playing the game and realize that you're wrong. You lead a terrible zakk wagon and now you're hardcore tunneling. You think after yesterday's wagon that I would no kill and claim a completely counter-claimable role? Why would I feel pressure from you and why wouldn't I just kill Luna? There's so many bad risks with that play. You're tunneling and you will cost the town this game if you continue. Right now, scum either finds a role blocker or a strongman because otherwise luna and I don't die for the next 3 days.

[Aj The Epic]

And so you mislynched someone else and are continuing on undaunted. If I'm thinking of the right game, Performer's posts in that game were actively questioning people and responding to people who weren't necessarily suspicious of him early. He had a lot of time before he was wagoned and his engagement was limited.

[Aj The Epic]

I don't need to convince you of anything. You need to convince yourself that you aren't even close.

[Aj The Epic]

luna, because I didn't feel choof was worth protecting. I protect who's more needed for the town.

[Aj The Epic]

VOTE: AJ

Scum here guys, lets go lets go!
I don't think I can wrong twice.

This vote is awful.

[Aj The Epic]

Yes instead of giving a day to try it again, let's lynch the doc and a role that can claim again.

Explain to me WHY I do this as scum.

[Aj The Epic]

But if I'm going to do that, why do I tie my hands to my scumbuddy? Why blind claim a doc when I could very easily be countered by an actual doc?

Your argument has holes in it. I'm not going to make such a stupid blind play as scum. I'm too confident in my own ability to just fodder off a possible counterclaim like that.

[Aj The Epic]

...Reread the day, please. I shuffled on and off of what I wanted to do with skybird.

More importantly, in what fucking world does scum counterclaim a TOWN claim? Why would I go "Oh yeah I have theWorst as town friendly neighbor" DESPITE the fact that Skybird has that claim yesterday? What more can you do to ask for death?

[Aj The Epic]

If you guys want to throw the game with NO counterclaim to a doc, go ahead. I'm decidedly no longer giving a damn after I doc'd out Luna and stopped the nk, predicted the bad counterwagon and am MOST LIKELY on scum.

Why not believe me for a and NOT lynch a doctor. You're doing scum a massive favor by getting rid of a bp doc so trivially without trusting my reads once? My wagon gets counter wagoned for a town lynch and you STILL don't expect ANY scum on that wagon bailing out the lynch that just couldn't get through? You guys are legitimately throwing.

[Aj The Epic]

@luna Generally not unless town has vig? Did you see a vig kill come through?

@Verdith
I'm NOT lying about my role.
I'm NOT partnered with TheWorst.

If TheWorst has infinite shots why not just trust me for a day and let him send it out again? Wouldn't that do enough to clear my truth on that? And then you don't lose a doctor.

[Aj The Epic]

See, the fact that you're declaring with confidence that Luna was the target of the nightkill and not you (y'know, you being supposedly bulletproof and shit) tells me that you really did target Luna for a kill last night and are trying to turn that into your benefit.

Wait, are you really daft? Why would scum try to kill me when titus was hellbent to lynch me? I certainly wasn't being read as the major town at the end of the day.

More importantly, HOW do you know that I can't see my vest shot amount? Are you bp as well?

[Aj The Epic]

It's not explicit. I had to ask about that.

[Aj The Epic]

As in I had to message bbmolla to know if I could tell if I had lost the vest.

[Aj The Epic]

Performer.

P-Edit: No, I asked if I would know. Because the last time I played bullet proof, I knew.

[Aj The Epic]

No, it's pretty obvious. What scum team WOULDN'T go straight for luna unless they suspected the doc protect.

More concerning is that you're not thinking that through.

[Aj The Epic]

I mean, I know Luna's alignment. Anyone who's town knows her alignment.

[Aj The Epic]

Do you really think I lack the kind of confidence to need a role to tell me?

[Aj The Epic]

Okay can you point to someone calling you scum outside of the first wagon on you in post 220 ish?

[Aj The Epic]

No. Titus is very likely town.

[Aj The Epic]

I don't like Titus' play but Catboi was very town. To me, it also seems that it would be impossible to move the town driven wagon off performer by scum as most scum would just guess it to result in their death.

[Aj The Epic]

Out of the 3 scum reads I have, FA_Q is the one I think flips town at the highest rate simply because my entire read is off a possible slip and his reactions, plus the fact he rarely responds to anything not on him.

[Aj The Epic]

VOTE: Fa_q2

But really, I don't think any point against the zakk lynch is bad. That lynch was telegraphed town.

[Aj The Epic]

I said he is the most likely of my scum reads (3) to flip town. I still think he's scum.

And I doubt scum stayed completely clear of that wagon.

[Aj The Epic]

Not completely, but maybe 1, 2 if multiball.

Also your logic is fucking 10/10 buddy

Would you expect anything less?

Also I doubt multi. I've already given my argument for that but iirc docs in multi generally only can protect from one faction (Like seers/cops, doc existing vs archangel/sorcerer and the only one faction pm in mod post).

[Aj The Epic]

There's almost no way to paraphrase the message.

Playername, rolename , is town.

Literally the only paraphrase I can do of it.

[Aj The Epic]

Aj =
voted me on d2, pushed again for me to get lynched
D2 he stated he protected Luna
said he probably got attacked instead of Luna or anyone else, then says Luna probably got attacked due to d1 happenings
suggested Sky to be lynched because there shouldn’t be 2 Friendly Neighbors
revealed that he's a 2-shot Bp Doc
got a message that Worst is also a Friendly Neighbor, Worst later confirms this

There is literally nothing scum in this. Other than I didn't claim I probably got attacked instead. I stated that Luna was the near for-sure target.

[Aj The Epic]

There is literally nothing scum in this. Other than I didn't claim I probably got attacked instead. I stated that Luna was the near for-sure target.

I'm not getting a town vibe from you.[/quote]

Huge surprise, that. But, you still don't have any reason.

[Aj The Epic]

That was misquoted. First quote mine, second performer.

[Aj The Epic]

Is he perhaps not a friendly neighbor? I explicitly got his role.

Mailman pops into mind as a role possibility, but mailman generally is clarified not to be written by the mod.

[Aj The Epic]

Lying to players is out so DD is out.
New/variant roles may be included in limited number (no more than 1 in a Mini, 2 in a Large), and should be based on the usual role mechanics: Killing, Protecting, Investigating, Blocking, Voting, Enabling and Communication.

@AJ, Did the role knowledge come in the same PM as the alignment confirmation?

Same pm. The message was just as I stated.

[Aj The Epic]

There's almost no way to paraphrase the message.

Playername, rolename , is town.

Literally the only paraphrase I can do of it.

You didn't state the role PM here?

It's a friendly neighbor.

[Aj The Epic]

Exact format I had before.

[Aj The Epic]

with commas for grammar.

[Aj The Epic]

This confuses me. I was hoping we could be distilling a townbloc and adding members to it, not deciding to throw it all away on a couple of derivative pokes from Titus.

Aj was also Zakk's scumread and i didn't like Aj's stance at the end of the day, considering Zakk's flip. Im going to admit that the doctor claim is the only reason i don't want to turbolynch him right now.

What the hell? I'm not allowed to have a stance on Zakk saying he's town and then be right? You want me to simply believe him scum because you believe so? I don't know how you guys figured he'd flip town to the point that you jumped on his wagon for a policy lynch to begin with.

And then townread her because she said she *agreed* with you?

That's basically it.
If you want to be town, agree with me. Scum won't agree with me, so that's normally a strong case on someone being scum.

Your entire D2 has been forced as fuck around pretending the town actually should listen to you or that you've done something to make you worth listening to.

If your "find" is so groundbreaking then why is AJ scum? Why is TheWorst scum?

Are you refusing to say why you'd agree with people as town? Because it's a pretty simple question if you are town-aligned this game.

Because they are both talking shit.
Using an excuse like "Rest of town are probably VT" to try and justify their roles.
The only people who aren't for lynching them are scum or just blind.

"refusing" - such a scummy term to exaggerate. I do think that a few people on MS need to research this word further before using it.
Why do I agree with people as town? This is a pretty stupid question if I may say so. As town or scum you can agree/disagree.
The fact I said that only town agree with me was obviously a joke/sarcasm. But I do forget at times that no one on MS has a sense of humour.

AJ being scum serious to me though. Even if TheWorst some how wasn't, AJ is just talking shit and people seem to be buying it.

Explain to me why AJ is town.

"talking shit" Good specifics there.
Never said "rest of the town is VT", and you keep trying to group me to theWorst even though you can't build a case and have nothing behind it besides "oh FN gotten from theWorst means falseclaim". You do realize you could just go into the thread and find it early day 1. I can even start helping you: 104 and 206. Try as you might, you won't build anything off of it.
But your bullshit about "everyone not lynching him is scum" (because even the blind can use braille) is bad because you won't even do the legwork to try and prove it. You try to be a town crier on this but all you're doing is, in your own words, talking shit.

VOTE: Vedith

You read me as scum so strongly that you're starting to call people scum for not agreeing with me but you refuse to come up with ANYTHING. If it's so obvious, this should be easy for you. You're generalizing what I'm saying as 'talking shit' without citing examples. So at this point, you're just hoping that someone else makes the case or people blind sheep for you. The first shouldn't be hoped for, the second is just scum. And for whatever reason, your passive aggressive use of smiley faces is legitimately pissing me off.

[Aj The Epic]

And Aj votes Vedith as soon as Sala says that he's thinking about Vedith

Not like he wasn't one of my scum reads and, as I said, Fa_q2 was the most likely scum read to flip town.

[Aj The Epic]

Okay, pretend Vedith's posts recently haven't been bad.

[Aj The Epic]

Not like he wasn't one of my scum reads and, as I said, Fa_q2 was the most likely scum read to flip town.

The difference is you haven't said anything to me about me being scum.

Also I'll check later but I thought that the rest are VT's comment was from AJ or TheWorst.

474 was my voicing of suspicion
501 pointing towards a contradiction
505 my statement of you trying to clear FA_Q2

[Aj The Epic]

You know, I do good work when I'm not enormously frustrated.

[Aj The Epic]

Considering how hellbent TItus was on lynching me and the majority of the town being alright with sheeping her, I figured it was going to happen anyways. If nothing else, it's shown me who's willing to lynch a doctor that they can't get rid of by NK without strongmanning me.

Vedith, how confident are you about lynching your doc?

[Aj The Epic]

@AJ Just to be clear, 2 shot BP Doctor means you have 2 shots on the bulletproof, right? Or is it actually 2 shots on the doc save?

2shot bp

[Aj The Epic]

Oh so now you just address me by role. You're awfully funny being on a mislynch, coming into the game after a nk night, wanting to kill the claimed bp doctor who you townread the majority of d1.